Guitar right hand technique

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Mar 25 - 03:13 AM

one thing I have learned from playing tenor banjo with a flat pick, is that when playing in six eight time playing six lots of quavers, is that using down up down, down up down, it enables me to emphasise the first in each group of three more successfully
the advantage of finger picking is that it is easier when playing melodies,to pick two notes simultaneously when they are far apart.eg octaves

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 22 Mar 25 - 05:45 AM

Not quite sure why you’ve latched onto this rather old thread, but I agree that straight alternate up and down picking (on tenor banjo or mandolin) for double jigs never quite works right (for stressing note four), although fiddle bowing does seem to rely on an up bow at that point, unless incorporating slurs on the weaker notes.

Reading through all the above thread, which I’d not seen before, was interesting though and surely still relevant. I started out on fingerstyle guitar way back and never really learnt basic strumming, or rather very quickly moved on to doing something more interesting with the right hand. Whilst there are some very accomplished flat pickers out there doing great stuff, it dismays me that so many of today’s younger players never do anything with the right hand other than (frankly) tedious strumming. As someone pointed out above, many of the revered mainstream guitarists (Knopfler, Clapton, Page, etc) were not just strummers, but also are deft fingerpickers and/or hybrid pickers. I guess many think that once they’ve mastered the left hand work, they’ve arrived as a guitarist.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: David C. Carter
Date: 23 Mar 25 - 04:59 AM

Jack Elliot's "Talking Woody Guthrie",Doc Watson,then later"Allice's Resteraunt" helped me a lot.

Later on I found myself flat picking the bass strings and using the 2nd and 3rd fingers to play the G B E strings.Don't really know how that came about.Still do it.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Mar 25 - 03:04 PM

I latched on to this old thread because it is intereting, ok

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 23 Mar 25 - 04:30 PM

I agree; it makes interesting reading. I wonder if we are seeing a dumbing down of instrumental prowess generally, with too easy access to on-line tuition hosted by players of meagre musicality themselves. Of course, there are some good players sharing their knowledge on the Internet, but there also seems be loads of self styled teachers demonstrating rather crude/inept versions of popular songs. I guess it all started earlier on when proper sheet music got overtaken by basic chord songbooks, but I daresay it’s a good thing that music making has now become far more accessible.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 23 Mar 25 - 08:02 PM

Jerry said "I daresay its a good thing that music making has now become far more accessible".

Mmm...it CAN be. It depends. Take online tuition (YouTube say. Some questionable 'lessons’ there). it's important to learn what's right, so that you don't practise mistakes. But how is a beginner to know what's right? :)

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Mar 25 - 02:49 AM

listening is important, in the sixties we had music tab which is useful to a point but   i learned more by listening to mississippi John Hurt,than the tab the tab taught me where to put my fingers, but not the expression etc

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 24 Mar 25 - 04:53 AM

Yes, tablature was certainly helpful but has quite rightly been criticised for not including indications of timing, phrasing, etc. unless produced in tandem with actual notation. Plus, unless you persevered to decipher music notation, you never really learnt what notes you were actually playing, and progress to playing by ear. Chord sonbooks are even worse of course, as there is no indication of rhythm, timing, or even chord fingering/inversions.

I think the best way to learn was a combination of things, including yes watching other performers, like by getting a front row seat in the clubs, and even talking to them afterwards, as many accomplished players were quite happy to demonstrate things like guitar and banjo right hand technique. I know that happens at Festival workshops these days, but yes a lot of the YouTube tutors are simply teaching the wrong stuff in the wrong way - should anyone really be relying on advice from a tutor who says “not sure what it’s called, but you then hit this one, the fattest string, a couple of times…”? I couldn’t bear to watch the rest of that one….

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 24 Mar 25 - 05:31 AM

The Sandman,

Yes,a lot of us "kids" back then would get hold of a record or whatever and listen, trying to figure out how.

Where I lived there WAS no tuition and no money to get you to where it was. Like most of my mates back then, I'm self taught.

It's another way of going at it :)

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 25 - 03:21 PM

Yes i was self taught on concertina and guitar and drums, for the same reasons, however learning guitar and drums helped me with concertina
playing snare drum teaches you good coordination, which is useful for english concertina, learning how to melody pick on guitar and use syncopation partly helped with concertina song accompaniment

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 25 Mar 25 - 03:44 AM

Using mandolin picking exercises will improve your right hand plectrum technique. here is one. playing in jig time, take six quavers, and on the first pair of quavers play two semiquavers down up, then play up down two quavers, then three quavers down up down, so du u d dud

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 25 Mar 25 - 03:54 AM

sorry correction du du dud two semis two quavers three quavers

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Mar 25 - 09:35 AM

Online tuition (passive): ".... and the bland leadeth the bland, and they both shall fall into the kitsch."

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Mar 25 - 04:14 PM

There are some online tutors I can highly recommend - Tao of Twang, Stich Method, Daniel Serriff and a bunch more. After I retired 10 years ago I took up electric guitar again and my playing and improvising has improved leaps and bounds with help from these sources.
For right hand technique on acoustic I picked up Mark Knopfler's Done With Bonaparte off a YT tutorial with views of both hands that's given me a solid percussive move in my fingerstyle approach.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 26 Mar 25 - 06:29 PM

Gillymor, i agree, there was a wonderful clip of George Shuffler being interveiwed, and if i remeber correctly, he talked about why he developed his style of picking
George Shuffler was the country and bluegrass guitar player who is credited for a three figure cross-picking playing style (down two strings, up one) that he created out of necessity

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 26 Mar 25 - 06:33 PM

link to an interview of georeg shuffler talking about his picking
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjjBbVMnT-A

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 26 Mar 25 - 06:36 PM

another interview of Shuffler
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTr9xudLyCY

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Mar 25 - 07:44 PM

Yeah, Shuffler got the ball rolling with that crosspicking. It's a tricky technique and it takes a while to get it smooth, took me awhile anyway but it's got a lot of applications outside of Bluegrass. Molly Tuttle has a good crosspicking tutorial on YT doing Wildwood Flower.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 27 Mar 25 - 03:21 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EusasuLnEE mMOLLY Tuttle

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 27 Mar 25 - 05:33 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EusasuLnEE

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 27 Mar 25 - 05:46 AM

Whilst there are some good YT tutorials, there are some bad ones. The beginner isn't in a position to tell the difference and may, therefore, be practicing mistakes.

I'm not saying they SHOULDN'T use YT, all I'm saying is that they should seek advice over which YT tutorials to use, rather than thinking ALL are good which they are not :)

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Mar 25 - 07:53 AM

I guess we're getting a bit off topic but another good tutor is is Alex Ferrin. He's a session player who deals with jazz, blues, Americana and other genres. His YT lessons are very meaty with just a brief moment promoting his Patreon page, for those who want to do a deeper dive for a small monthly fee. Jack Ruch is another favorite who mostly teaches blues, jazz and jazz/blues.
The good ones are out there but you've got to do some digging.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Mar 25 - 08:07 AM

That's the Molly Tuttle lesson, Sandman. This page has got the text and tab to go along with it- molly-tuttle-teaches-you-how-to-crosspick Wildwood Flower

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 27 Mar 25 - 08:15 AM

Gilly,

You should know by now that any thread I'm involved in goes off topic lol :)

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Mar 25 - 08:19 AM

That's the way ah ha ah ha I like it, Fred.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: GUEST,The Sandman
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 03:49 AM

apropos finger picking with thumb once a player has mastered alternate bass strings on the beat, it is fun to try putting the occasional bass off the beat , a simplified version of bill broonzy

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 06:51 AM

When I was a young fingerpicker my guitar playing pals and I spent many hours (years actually) trying to master the "stumbling" bass of Blind Blake that you hear on his tunes West Coast Blues, Righteous Blues, Too Tight etc. I managed a version of it but getting it up to Blake's speed was another matter. Ton Van Bergeyk, John Miller and Ry Cooder, among others, did a good job of it.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 07:57 AM

Gilly,

Ah, Ryland P Cooder. Great slide guitarist. He'd use Drop D, Open D, Open G and Open E.
Had a terrible accident when just three years old, whilst trying to fix a toy car.
Born same year as me.
Saw him live many years ago. I want to say Liverpool but my memory is bad.

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 08:11 AM

Fred, I probably don't need to tell you that Cooder is much more than a great slide guitarist. Early on he was recognized as one of the best at doing the Blind Blake thing but he's also adept at playing a variety of instruments which he's used to make some stunning music over a long and varied career. Of the many things he does
I'm really partial to his electric fingerstyle playing on songs like The Tattler and Teardrops Will Fall.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 08:42 AM

Oh absolutely, the man had many talents as a musician.

We had one in the UK but, sadly, he died young. Brian Jones,ex Rolling Stones. That guy could really play, not just guitar but had the unusual ability to master an instrument within 15-30 minutes, or so it was said.

I met him on a train in 62-63. He had a Gibson J-200 with him and played it. Blew me away,

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 08:52 AM

That's amazing, Fred. The thing that got me onto the grittier side of Rock and Roll, and subsequently into the blues I guess, was hearing the 2 guitar attack of Jones and Richard(s) on early Stones recordings like Last Time and It's All Over Now.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 09:00 AM

Reminds of the early '60s J-200 I had when I was under the spell of the music of Rev. Gary Davis. That's when I learned that it ain't the instrument. :-)

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 09:14 AM

And of course, Little Red Rooster, where Jones was in standard tuning. It was said that Jones had more talent than the rest of the Stones put together,, and I wouldn't doubt that. When he played that J-200, I was put firmly in my place, that being his response to me showing him what I could do :)

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 09:21 AM

Yeah, his is a sad story. He added so much to that band before he went into a downward spiral.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 09:34 AM

Gilly,

It IS Richards mate, just in case you weren't sure about the "S" :)

Off to fix the shower as instructed by Mrs Fred! Enjoy your day.

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 09:34 AM

I saw The Stones at Lincoln Drill Hall on New Year’s Eve, 31st December, 1963. It was a dance-hall gig, and my then girl-friend, Mary, and I stood in the front row, dead centre, with our legs pressed against the edge of the low stage. It was obvious to me then that Brian was the real talent in the band - great guitar, amazing harmonica playing - and even though Jagger was no more than three feet from us, I was transfixed by Brian’s quiet virtuosity, could hardly take my eyes off him.

Brian’s untimely death was undoubtedly one of the greatest losses to rock music, and I often wonder what he could have gone on to achieve had he conquered his demons and lived.

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Fred
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 09:59 AM

Backwoodsman,

Stardom (if you want to call it that) can be a terrible thing. Some can handle the pressure and some can't.

In Jones' case it wasn't all about the drugs. He saw the Stones as HIS band. It was him who came up with the band name, and he'd been the band's early spokesman, a role Jagger took on more and more. Right or wrong? It's not for me to say but it all put pressure on Jones that he could have done without,let's put it that way :)

Fred

Subject: RE: Guitar right hand technique
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Mar 25 - 12:09 PM

I’m with you on that Fred.