BS: Caliphate

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:31 PM

A spot of a difficulty, linguistically.

When an individual Moslem (or a specific group of Moslems) does something that accords with the stereotypical views held by the usual suspects about Moslems, then the usual suspects complain that nothing is done about it because of political correctness.

But when an individual Jew (or a specific group of Jews) does something that accords with a stereotypical view of Jews, then the SAME group of usual suspects cry "antisemite" if the actions of that or those Jews are criticised.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 04:47 PM

bobad people can be opposed to what Israel does as a nation, what the Israeli government does as a body, and even opposed to what individual jewish individuals do in the name of their religion (such as kidnapping and killing children or building more settlements) without being an anti-semite.

When your case (the one you, bobad, make against others here at mudcat) is so poor that the only answer you have in a dispute is to call the other party names, then you have no argument. Ad hominem attacks mean you're trying to distract by appealing to unrelated arguments (does calling someone "antisemite" mean they have to stop the first discussion and go on the defensive regarding their own attitudes towards jews? No. It doesn't.)

If the only card you have to play is name calling, your argument is bankrupt. Check and mate.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:11 PM

So, SRS, do you accept the European Union Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC) definition of antisemitism or do you have your own definition? When I say someone is an antisemite I am calling them on the criteria as stated in the definition. You may call it name calling but I call it as it is. I've got your number.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:15 PM

And I'm going to call them on it every time they do it whether you like it or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:25 PM

Thank you, SRS. Nicely and succinctly stated.

Certain ranting hate-mongers on this forum have been throwing this idiotic "anti-Semite" bullshit around for an eternity. It doesn't improve over time.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:28 PM

Hey, Boo- it was ranting nonsence when you posted it once - posting it twice doesn't make it any better.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:58 PM

And it doesn't change the fact that you are defined by the words you use.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:13 PM

No one in their right might would accept that document that you claim has such gravitas, bobad. And the Israelis who foist it upon others are over-representing what it is about.

You have to hunt to find criticisms of that group ("European Union Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia"), but they're out there. The "definition" you clutch to your breast is a document written by a hyper-Israeli special interest group that is not the policy accepted by the European Union (though the name would suggest this illustrates a rhetorical category of false advertising).   

The story of the EU Monitoring Centre's 2005 draft working definition of anti-Semitism, a text so enthusiastically pushed by Israel advocates in California and beyond, is not well known — but it is illuminating.

Central to the emergence of the draft working definition was Ken Stern, anti-Semitism specialist at the American Jewish Committee. According to Stern, he developed the text "along with other experts during the second half of 2004"; his version is largely identical to the one published by the EU Monitoring Centre the following year ("Proposal for a redefinition of antisemitism," the Stephen Roth Institute, July 2005).

There are two other key figures in the backstory to the initiative. Ken Stern has credited Dina Porat, then head of the Stephen Roth Institute for the Study of Contemporary Anti-Semitism and Racism at Tel Aviv University, for having "first articulated" the idea "for a common definition" ("The Working Definition - A Reappraisal," Tel Aviv University, July 2011 [PDF]).

The other key figure is the American Jewish Committee's Andrew Baker who, according to Stern, had "smartly developed a working relationship" with the EU Monitoring Centre's then director Beate Winkler. Winkler was invited to address the AJC annual meeting in Washington in May 2004, where she told delegates that "the demonization of Israel and the denial of its right to exist are clearly anti-Semitic in our view" ("Confronting Anti-Semitism, Mobilizing Governments," AJC, 9 May 2004).

According to former Director of the Institute for Jewish Policy Research and author Antony Lerman, Baker had been in contact with Winkler following controversy about a 2003 report abandoned by the EU Monitoring Centre because of problems that included the definition of anti-Semitism used ("EU Accused of Burying Report on Antisemitism Pointing to Muslim Role," Forward, 28 November 2003).

Baker proposed to Winkler "that she move quickly to convene a meeting of [Jewish leaders, activists and researchers]" to draft a satisfactory definition of anti-Semitism ("The Farcical Attack on the UCU For Voting Against Use of the EUMC 'Working Definition' of Antisemitism,'" antonylerman.com, 2 June 2011).

In Lerman's account, "[Baker] knew that those invited to the meeting would need to be broadly sympathetic to the concept of the 'new anti-Semitism' and … he was able to determine who attended."

Written by special hand-picked zealots, how could it work out any differently? And by the way, the group is no longer called EUMC. Based in Vienna, the center has subsequently been renamed the Fundamental Rights Agency. When you quote their dogma, be sure you name the group correctly.

Since its publication, the definition has been repeatedly cited by pro-Israel advocacy groups to attack Palestine solidarity activism, and used — in the words of Ken Stern himself, in the aforementioned Kantor Center's conference program — "with the subtlety of a mallet."

Israel lobbyists have often misrepresented the nature of the text and its contents. The Anti-Defamation League's Richard Barton, an author of the University of California "campus climate" report, has tried to convey the impression that the draft text has an official status by calling it the EU's definition of anti-Semitism ("Protests must not stray into anti-Semitism," San Francisco Chronicle, 23 August 2012).

A working group on "combating Anti-Semitism" at the Israeli government's 2009 Global Forum gathering, chaired by the Community Security Trust's Michael Whine, described the draft definition as "the European Union's own definition of anti-Semitism."

The definition has been invoked in a number of cases in bids to muzzle Palestine solidarity activism and speech, particularly on campus. Israeli Apartheid Week, an annual series of awareness-raising activities in universities throughout the world, has been singled out for special attention. (emphasis mine)

Those paragraphs are filled with links. Go read the article and follow some of them.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:17 PM

Ah, but SRS: some people are not in their right minds. As for reading the article & following the links, little to no hope

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:20 PM

"And the Israelis who foist it upon others are over-representing what it is about."


I stopped reading at this point. Like I said I've got your number.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:24 PM

Your blinders are held in place with a vise, bobad. It's cutting off the blood supply to your brain.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:53 PM

The thread topic is the Caliphate SRS, do you have anything to say about that or are you only fixated on Israel?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 07:56 PM

"Death to the Jews" chanted the crowd waving the black flags of the Islamic State, or ISIS as it used to be known. They were looking for new supporters for their cause, the creation of a worldwide caliphate answering to the man who now calls himself Ibrahim: a zealot too radical even for Al Qaeda who has stormed through Syria and Iraq carrying out mass executions, crucifying rivals, beheading enemies. But these marchers were not in Syria or Iraq; they were in The Hague in The Netherlands. And their message was one tailored to the disaffected young descendants of Muslim immigrants in Europe."

ISIS's Black Flags Are Flying in Europe

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:00 PM

"Horrifying footage has emerged showing Sunni insurgents of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (Isis) beheading a police officer.

In a shocking piece of footage - too graphic to publish - fighters are seen knocking on the door of a Sunni police major in the dead of night before they blindfold and cuff him.

They then carve off his head with a knife in his own bedroom as religious hymns are played in the background.

After the decapitation, the militants took a picture of the officer's head and posted it on Twitter with the comment: "This is our ball. It's made of skin #WorldCup."


The Huffington Post UK

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:06 PM

I added content for the stray reader who wishes to do further reading, to be given access to balanced views, and to think globally. Clearly you are set in your ways and I don't know why you bother to participate in these threads that must dismay you no end.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:19 PM

I have previously pointed out that the most superficial reading of the DRAFT definition that Poo-bad so loves shows it to be arrant nonsense that simply fails, as a definition, to define at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:21 PM

PS. Nobody denies that antisemites do exist. Trying to expand the definition so that in effect it means "anyone I say is an antisemite is an antisemite" actually hinders attempts to reduce discrimination.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:26 PM

That is your opinion and, as the saying goes, opinions are like assholes (arseholes to you) everybody has one. From what I gather most of the civilized world accepts the EUMC criteria. The Jew haters of the world obviously do not.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:12 PM

From what I gather most of the civilized world accepts the EUMC criteria.

From what you gather FROM WHERE? Your own asshole? Or from other hate-mongering fanatics like yourself?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:16 PM

By the way, Boo, the thread topic is the Caliphate. Do you have anything to say about that or are you only fixated on Israel?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:26 PM

Feeding the aims of the caliphate, Israel is creating a "buffer zone" in Gaza, 40 percent of the territory, confining an already over-crowded populace that includes one million refugees into an even narrower strip.
Bombing hospitals and civilian housing, killing over 1000 Palestinians (only a handful of Israelis killed in return), is turning world opinion against Israel and feeding extremists.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 01:34 AM

Whatever the rights & wrongs of the authenticity & objectivity of the EUMC/Fundamental Rights Agency definition, my confidence in which I must admit somewhat shaken by SRS's post above, it is surely idle to deny that antisemitism, as even Richard appears above to agree, does nowadays frequently masquerade as legitimate criticism of Israel (for which there is indeed plenty of room with much of their current MO, a great disappointment to those who have striven for its existence and always wished it well, as I have frequently posted). So, absent confidence in EUMC/FRA Report, has anyone any suggestion as to how to distinguish proper criticism of Israel's conduct from disguised antisemitism?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 03:32 AM

MtheGM, you surely can read more accurately than that. I neither said nor implied that antisemitism (which does exist) "does frequently masquerade as legitimate criticism of Israel".

The difficulty (in the abstract) of defining antisemitism lies, it seems to me, of distinguishing prejudice on the one hand from learning by experience on the other.

The point is important because of the root meaning of the word "prejudice". It implies pre-judgment.   

This may perhaps be compared to pre-judgments of other kinds. If it is wrong to state of imply that Jews are likely to have characteristic X then it is equally wrong to state or imply that Palestinians are likely to have characteristic Y. The issue becomes more complex when on speaks of religions. To be Jewish may mean two things, and they are not the same. It may mean simply that one is born of a Jewish mother (it is, culturally, matrilineal) or it may mean that one adheres to Judaism as a religion. Only the latter is a matter of choice. When speaking, however, of Muslims there is as far as I know no requirement of birth of a particular lineage.

Over to anyone who wants to discuss the issue rationally (preferably with relation to the probability and consequences of establishment of a Caliphate).

But before I go, one last comment at Poo-bad. FFS, man, go and READ the definition you love so much. Can you not see that it is a muddle, a mess, and fundamentally short on objectively establishable application? Surely you can do better than Goofball (is it Goofball I am thinking of?) and the laughable attempts to bring US medical care within a particular definition of genocide. Read teh words and think about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 04:02 AM

Meanwhile, The UN not only tells Israel to stop but asks The USA to stop vetoing the implementation of the sanctions catered for in the many resolutions against Israel.

Of course, Israel responds by stating the sanctions don't technically exist because of the US veto on implementation. Some people see this as mealy mouthed but you can see why they do it. Fools such as the supporters of aggression on this and similar threads fall for it and smugly decry The UN.

One nice thing about democracy is that such idiots don't count. There is enough intelligence in a civilised voting country such as The UK or Canada to moderate such scum.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 04:02 AM

Richard, you were quick to accuse me of Islamophobia, just because I have criticised Islamist extremists.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 05:19 AM

Apologies, Richard, if I misattributed a previous post to you. But I think the points I made in my last post still apply, and I should be glad if anyone could attempt an answer to the question I put:-

In absence of confidence in EUMC/FRA Report, has anyone any suggestion as to how to distinguish proper criticism of Israel's conduct from disguised antisemitism?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 05:34 AM

Simple.

Decent people don't confuse the two, as anti semitism isn't intended. it takes malicious intent to confuse the two.

Thanks for reading this.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 06:41 AM

"Meanwhile, The UN not only tells Israel to stop but asks The USA to stop vetoing the implementation of the sanctions catered for in the many resolutions against Israel." - Musket

But not a word from the UN to Russia or China relating to vetos (Actual or threatened) regarding the current genocide in Syria

Since 1965 to 2013 (48 years) according to Monty G. Marshall - Major Episodes of Political Violence 1946-2012. SystemicPeace.org. "Ethnic War with Arab Palestinians / PLO 1965-2013". Updated 12 June 2013 21,500 Palestinians have been killed in various Israeli/Palestinian conflicts.

Since the 15th March 2011 in Syria on the other hand over 251,000 have been killed, perhaps if they were being killed by the IDF the pain and suffering in Syria would be ended that much more rapidly Musket?

As for this bit of nonsense:

"The UN not only tells Israel to stop but asks The USA to stop vetoing the implementation of the sanctions catered for in the many resolutions against Israel"

Ehmmmm Musket it is the resolution that is vetoed not the implementation of it. If the resolution is vetoed it no longer exists, i.e. there is no longer a resolution to implement.

Second time you have tried to push this complete and utter load of bollocks - didn't pass the first time - ain't passing on the second.

By the way who speaking for the UN told the United States of America when and when it could not use its veto powers? Don't sweat too much on that, I am not really expecting an answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 07:44 AM

No Keith, a key difference is that pretty well the only thing you do is to find things to criticise about aspects of Islam. That readily enables the inference of hostility that (as MtheGM says - nice to agree with him for once) may be a factor in differentiation of criticism of Israel or of Zionism from criticism of Jews as such.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 07:52 AM

The inference is wrong.
I may have criticised Islamism, but I have never, ever, criticised any aspect of Islam or any other religion.

I do not even post much about Islamism. My contribution to such threads is mostly refuting accusations of prejudice like this one from you.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 08:23 AM

Keep it up Terribleus. There are a few fools who may get taken on by it. The advertisers who prop up newspapers rely on idiots such as yourself.

Just think, commerce needs you, even if common decency doesn't.

Try telling Keith. He may even refer to as eminent when quoting you.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 08:39 AM

While Richard Bridge may not accept the EUMC's definitions, for his own reasons, the following bodies do not share his opinion:

    The State Department report on Global Antisemitism in 2008 included the following: The EUMC's working definition provides a useful framework for identifying and understanding the problem and is adopted for the purposes of this report

    The Working Definition of Antisemitism was cited by the US State Department's Special Envoy to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism in testimony given to the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (in Helsinki) in 2011, and is currently endorsed on the State Department's 'Monitoring and Combating Antisemitism' page.

    The Working Definition of Antisemitism was endorsed by the London Declaration of the Inter Parliamentary Coalition for Combating Antisemitism in 2009.

    In 2010, the UK All-Party Inquiry into antisemitism recommended that the Working Definition of Antisemitism should be adopted and promoted by the Government and law enforcement agencies.

    The UK National Union of Students renewed their support for the Working Definition of Antisemitism in 2013.

    An official document published by the OSCE's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights (ODIHR) recommends the Working Definition of Antisemitism as a valuable hate crime data collection tool for law enforcement agencies, and for educators.

    The OSCE Parliamentary Assembly has formally recognized the Working Definition of Antisemitism.

    The Inter-parliamentary Coalition for Combating Antisemitism (ICCA) which took place in Ottawa in November, 2010, attended by Parliamentarians and experts from over 50 countries around the globe reaffirmed the EUMC's working definition of Antisemitism.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 09:03 AM

Ah so you still cannot refute anything stated so far Musket. Why not just say so?

So no-one speaking on behalf of the UN told the United States of America when it could and when it could not use its veto powers? And any resolution once vetoed is dead.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:10 AM

Poo-bad - just read it. It's arrant nonsense. Oh, silly me, you don't care about that do you?

And while we are on the subject of Islam.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10995961/Commonwealth-Games-Scottie-dogs-disrespectful-to-Muslims.html

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:16 AM

http://islam.about.com/od/islamsays/a/Dogs-In-Islam.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:23 AM

Here is that "working definition" .

It does not take a doctorate in philosophy or law to see that some bits of it are manifest nonsense to the extent that it would be sensible to consider them self-serving nonsense.

Quote begins: -

Working definition: "Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities."
In addition, such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm humanity, and it is often used to blame Jews for "why things go wrong." It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms and action, and employs sinister stereotypes and negative character traits.
Contemporary examples of antisemitism in public life, the media, schools, the workplace, and in the religious sphere could, taking into account the overall context, include, but are not limited to:
Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.
Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective — such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.
Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.
Denying the fact, scope, mechanisms (e.g. gas chambers) or intentionality of the genocide of the Jewish people at the hands of National Socialist Germany and its supporters and accomplices during World War II (the Holocaust).
Accusing the Jews as a people, or Israel as a state, of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.
Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the State of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:
Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.
Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
Using the symbols and images associated with classic antisemitism (e.g., claims of Jews killing Jesus or blood libel) to characterize Israel or Israelis.
Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.
Holding Jews collectively responsible for actions of the state of Israel.
However, criticism of Israel similar to that leveled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.
Antisemitic acts are criminal when they are so defined by law (for example, denial of the Holocaust or distribution of antisemitic materials in some countries).
Criminal acts are antisemitic when the targets of attacks, whether they are people or property – such as buildings, schools, places of worship and cemeteries – are selected because they are, or are perceived to be, Jewish or linked to Jews.
Antisemitic discrimination is the denial to Jews of opportunities or services available to others and is illegal in many countries.

Quote ends.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:43 AM

"Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
"


I can see why Musket and his fellow stooges would object to THIS.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 12:34 PM

The disgrace is that you are helping to kill far more Palestinian children by attacking Israeli actions in your support of Hamas than I am in supporting those actions against Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 12:40 PM

Musket,you can not answer, so you revert to abuse.
You have nothing else to contribute.
Your ignorance of relevant facts has been exposed yet again.

At least your posturing buffoonery gives some amusement in an otherwise bleak and depressing discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 12:41 PM

"No,I object to shallow idiots such as you having the oxygen of publicity."

I am SURE that you continue to support the Hamas stated goal of killing ALL Jews, but the vast majority of us will not permit you and those you support to remove our oxygen or our lives.

I note that you cannot even make a contribution to this thread about Iraq and the ISIS Caliphate .

You seem only capable of attacking Israel, and those who support it. No comments at all about the Mosque ISIS destroyed, the rumors of Female general mutilation, the driving out of Iraqi Christians- No, YOU are concerned about people calling you anti-Semitic for your ( BY EU DEFINITION) Anti-Semetic posts.


You and Greggie deserve each other, that is for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 12:44 PM

"The terrorist group the Islamic State, an al Qaida off shoot that has taken over large swaths of Iraq in recent months, told Christians in the Iraqi city of Mosul they had to convert to Islam by July 18 or they would be killed, according to the Economist. The only other option they were given was to leave Mosul, a city which has had a Christian presence for nearly two millennia. So thousands of Christians have now fled the city in fear for their lives.

"It is genocide. It meets the test of genocide," Wolf said Friday on Hugh Hewitt's radio show, which this writer guest hosted. "The definition of genocide was put together by the UN by a guy named Raphael Lemkin. But it is the eradication of a group of people – race, culture, ethnicity, religion. So this meets the official test of genocide."
"


But Musket has nothing to say- After all, it is just a bunch of Arabs- Not like HE considers them as humans being (UNLESS they were being killed, or driven out by Israelis- THEN he would be telling us all how evil it was).

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 12:53 PM

Hoped for but unlikely- a trial for war crimes directed against Ibrahim and Netanyahoo.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:01 PM

Not current but still perhaps pertinent: - http://www.salon.com/2011/12/06/an_ambassador_smeared/

I would point out that the quote from BB at 1048 mudcat time is precisely the bit that exonerates Mither. When the world's fourth largest military power, with probably the world's fourth greatest potential for "surgical precision" kills more women and children than combatants, and pretends that combatants in possibly the world's most densely populated area (into which ghetto that power forced the people of those combatants) are hiding behind human shields, one can only be aghast at the inhumanity and indeed the bullying. To say that one is so aghast is precisely to hold Israel to the standards of civilised nations.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 10:03 PM

Meanwhile, back with the caliphate, is anyone (other than Isis) defending the horrors perpetrated by Isis? Is it not the case that moderate Muslims are condemning them?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 29 Jul 14 - 11:28 PM

Richard Bridge: 29 Jul 14 - 10:23 AM

As I do not have either a doctorate in law or philosophy (nor any for that matter), and as this is not a Jewish or Israeli document--it has been posted on the 'Cat several times, perhaps you would be so kind as to tell which we should consider 'manifest nonsense' or 'self-serving nonsense.'

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/156684.pdf
http://www.antisem.org/archive/ottawa-protocol-on-combating-antisemitism/

______________________________________________________________________

SRS

The fact that Jewish/Israeli groups or persons may helped draft the document does not prima facie invalidate it. Jews and Israelis did not pass the resolution; governments or their committees did were signatories. Finally, interested parties (unions, chambers of commerce, ethnic and racial associations, gender groups) often take part, even lead, in drafting laws and resolutions which affect them, so why should not pro-Jewish groups?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 01:29 AM

Musket:

Awww diddums, can't find anything to say so the dummy gets spat out of the stroller for the umpteenth time on the umpteenth thread?

With regard to frequency as far as lying, twisting and shouting down you mate take the biscuit, the only problem is, you aren't very good at it - i.e. You keep getting caught out at it.

You are Sir a complete and utter waste of space.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 03:34 AM

Braidedbeardedbruce still keeps saying I support Hamas.

I rest my case.

Perhaps I struck a nerve when enquiring of his sexual deviancy?

I wouldn't bother visiting Palestine if I were him. Israeli militants are doing their damnedest to make sure there are no small boys left.




Keep sneering Keith. Your agenda was sussed ages ago. All you do now is prove it. Do you like your new friends? Do you have to shower after supporting their odious apologising for terrorists? Or do you merely pray for them? Any chance of praying for the huge number of innocent people their heroes "legally" murder?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 04:11 AM

kills more women and children than combatants,

I question that Richard.
On previous incursions we were told that and it proved untrue.
If it is true that there are many more male than female casualties it suggests that combatant deaths are being counted as civilian.
Also, fighters in their late teens are possibly being counted as children.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 04:12 AM

Ian....you really need to get over your problems.

On several threads, you have made unsupported personal slurs on the sexual behaviour of other members, when your ignorance and lies have been exposed. Remember your snide remarks concerning "operation yew tree"?
Adding to Teribus's list, you are an absolute disgrace, not for your infantile views, but for your tactics.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jul 14 - 04:15 AM

Keep sneering Keith.

Yes.
Every time you make stuff up , or show your ignorance, or revert to abuse instead of argument, expect a sneer.

Any chance of praying for the huge number of innocent people their heroes "legally" murder?

I do not accept "murder" but I do pray for all the victims, and for peace.