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BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: pdq Date: 22 Apr 08 - 05:27 PM "Does the USA not frequently express the fervent hope and desire for the present regime of Iran to be gone?" Please cite a source for that. The US wants Iran to stop funding its creation, Hezbollah, and stop building its nuclear weapons program. We do not care who is in charge as long as they are not bad actors on the international stage. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 05:30 PM The Israeli philosophy is a paraphrase from The Bible: "Do unto others as they would do unto you. But do it first." This can be used to justify any kind of atrocity, because all you have to do is say "they intended to do it to me, so I did it to them first", regardless of whether or not that accusation is actually true. This is why it is particularly dangerous for the world for anyone to hold this mindset. And this is why the US government and the Israeli government are working so hard to convince people that the government of Iran intends to wage a unilateral nuclear strike against Israel. If they can get enough people to believe that lie, they can justify waging their own unilateral nuclear strike against Iran. Iran has no intention of waging a nuclear attack on Israel. They know that to do so would mean their utter destruction. They offered to negotiate with the United States government unconditionally and the US government rebuffed their offer and instead put them on the "axis of evil" list. The reason the US government did this is because it wants a justification to unilaterally attack Iran. Hillary is saying that she is on board with this plan. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Apr 08 - 05:30 PM The USSR has been wiped off the map. So has Czechoslovakia, East and West Germany, and Yugoslavia. Before then countries across Africa such as the Gold Coast, Bechuanaland and Tanganyika. Go back further and there was the Austro-Hungarian Empire...the Confederate States of America, the Republic of Texas... All gone from the maps, together with numerous others. Not one of those countries exists any longer. But the places are still all there, and the same people and their descendants are living there today. None of them needed to be nuked to remove them from the atlas. Apartheid South Africa exists still within the same boundaries, but it is a totally different country, and the old South Africa now seems like a bad dream. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Slag Date: 22 Apr 08 - 05:32 PM You go girl! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Chief Chaos Date: 22 Apr 08 - 05:35 PM Little Hawk, Although it's strictly semantics, the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics was indeed wiped off the map. ;) I happen to think that Iran and Syria are both working to increase their influence in the middle east and Israel (and the therefore the U.S.) is in the way. Even Al Quaida sees this (there is a rumor going around in the middle east that Israel perpetrated 9/11 supposedly started by Iran to discredit Al Quaida) and is threatening Iran. It's Sunnis versus Shi'ites (pardon the spelling if it's incorrect) I previously stated that it's not "public" knowledge meaning that there are indeed people who know for certain but they ain't gonna confirm it. I don't think that her statement amounts to repeating a lie. Plausible deniability! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 05:54 PM She repeated the lie, but she gave other people credit for starting it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: skipy Date: 22 Apr 08 - 05:58 PM Iran, the land of volcanic glass! Bring it on! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Amos Date: 22 Apr 08 - 06:05 PM Skipy: That is a rabidly insane thing to say. Antisocial, sociopathic, and fundamentally psychotic. What were you thinking. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Teribus Date: 22 Apr 08 - 06:08 PM MGOH, CarolC, Little Hawk and others have stated in other words more or less what Kevin says here: "The USSR has been wiped off the map. So has Czechoslovakia, East and West Germany, and Yugoslavia. Before then countries across Africa such as the Gold Coast, Bechuanaland and Tanganyika. Go back further and there was the Austro-Hungarian Empire...the Confederate States of America, the Republic of Texas... All gone from the maps, together with numerous others. Not one of those countries exists any longer. But the places are still all there, and the same people and their descendants are living there today. None of them needed to be nuked to remove them from the atlas. Apartheid South Africa exists still within the same boundaries, but it is a totally different country, and the old South Africa now seems like a bad dream." That is the appeasers mantra, the excuse and justification for burying heads in the sand and ignoring a serious problem that is developing. I have a question for all of you who offer up such drivel regarding what holocaust denier Ahmadinejad meant when he said, "As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map," Now put yourself in the place of an eighty year old Polish Jew who since his liberation from Auschwitz-Birkenau in 1945 has lived in Israel, tell me what you think the President of Iran meant, tell me if you would trust his word, or would you go on what the charter of both Hamas and Hezbollah clearly state as their intention. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 06:16 PM The US government had the opportunity to negotiate with the government of Iran. Iran was willing to negotiate without putting any conditions on their willingness to negotiate. The US government instead chose to ignore the offer and place Iran on the "axis of evil" list. They are the ones who chose to ignore what needed to be done. Refusing to negotiate while stepping up the rhetoric for waging a unilateral nuclear attack on Iran is a recipe for disaster. But this is what they have been doing. This is what needs to stop. It's not appeasement if the country in question has no intention of waging any acts of aggression on anyone else. Appeasement in this case is to go along with whoever has the intention of committing unilateral acts of aggression. In this case that would be the US and Israeli governments. So it is you who are the appeaser, Teribus. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Teribus Date: 22 Apr 08 - 06:25 PM Answer the question CarolC |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 06:30 PM If I was such a Jew living in Israel, I would want my government and the government of the US to negotiate with Iran, because I would know that any nuclear war in the Middle East would have a negative impact on me, even if it was in the form of a nuclear attack on Iran. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Chief Chaos Date: 22 Apr 08 - 06:32 PM "the same people and their descendants are living there today" Not that I often agree with Teribus, but I think that statement is a laugh. How many of the Tsar's family still lived on in the USSR after "Russia" became a soviet socialist republic? How many of the dissenters and their families? Although the countries may remain with the same or new names, the bloodless transition is a very rare thing. Considering what happened "internally" in China and Cuba during their communist revolutions,and what happened under the French and U.S. and even English civil wars (sometimes also called revolutions)it seems to me that the historical weight of evidence is greater for a bloody confrontation, especially if the pressure is coming from an external source for the change. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: pdq Date: 22 Apr 08 - 07:22 PM "If I was such a Jew living in Israel, I would want my government and the government of the US to negotiate with Iran..." Well, that would take two parties. Actually, two parties who wanted a peaceful solution. Trouble is, one wants peace and one does not. People who know Ahmadinejad say that he wants, when the Koran is revised in the distant future, to be known as the man who wiped Israel of the map. He is delusional. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Apr 08 - 07:42 PM I wasn't implying that all those changes happened bloodlessly - horrible things happened. But what Ahminedjad's ill-judged words have been taken as implying is a threat of nuclear holocaust, and in that context "the same people and their descendants are living there today" is a relevant reminder that calling for regime change generally does not imply that. There are of course people threatening nuclear holocaust. In this thread for example. That doesn't matter - so long as the people with the power to carry out those kind of threats aren't in a position to carry them out. That of cause implies trying to stop people having nuclear weapons.. To adapt Tony Blair's formula, it is important to fight nuclear proliferation, and the causes of nuclear proliferation. In the case of Iran that should mean some kind of guarantee that there will be no attacks on a nuclear-unarmed Iran - surrounded as it is by hostile or potentially regimes which do have nuclear arms. (Israel, Pakistan, Russia, US occupied Iraq.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Apr 08 - 07:52 PM Will the price of Persian rugs go up if most of the inventory is radioactive? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Chief Chaos Date: 22 Apr 08 - 08:01 PM McGrath, She's still only stating the same position that the U.S. has had since Israel was recognized. The only thing that has changed is the names of the heads of state, and then if, and only "in the event of an "unprovoked" nuclear attack by Iran". To paraphrase Teddy Roosevelt, she's speaking loudly and carrying a big stick. We've had these weapons for approximately 63 years now and we've only chosen to use them twice, on the same enemy, nearly 63 years ago. Hillary Clinton is much less likely to use them than the current regime. I haven't heard Obama make any statements about getting rid of the nukes either so I tend to believe that he'd use them if nothing else than as a deterrent. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 08:45 PM Well, that would take two parties. Actually, two parties who wanted a peaceful solution. Trouble is, one wants peace and one does not. This is simply not true. If Iran didn't want peace, they would not have offered to negotiate. Part of the reason the people of Iran voted Ahmadinejad into power was because the previous president was undermined by the Bush administration when it rebuffed Iran's offer to negotiate. Under the circumstances, Iran has legitimate reasons to be concerned about its security. Iran offered to negotiate and the US refused. That is, in itself, an indication of an intent on the part of the US to commit acts of aggression against Iran. Ahmadinejad is only the president. He doesn't call the shots. The US needs to support the more moderate factions in Iran by being willing to negotiate with the government of that country. It didn't do this because it serves the strategic objectives of both the US and Israel for the most extreme elements to be in power in Iran because what they want is to create a pretext for waging a unilateral attack on that country. The US and Israel don't want security. They want hegemony in the region, regardless of how many people have to get killed in the process. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: pdq Date: 22 Apr 08 - 08:58 PM "Part of the reason the people of Iran voted Ahmadinejad into power..." Please support that claim, such as giving us the date on which this "free-and-fair" election took place? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Riginslinger Date: 22 Apr 08 - 10:08 PM "Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran..." Well, she obliterated Obama, that's a start... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Chief Chaos Date: 22 Apr 08 - 10:09 PM CarolC, The US gov't can't support the more moderate leaders, the true power of the country lies with the mullahs and ayatollahs who continually disqualify any "moderate" from running. They tossed us out during their Islamic "revolution" back in the late seventies. Any move made by the U.S. in the region is denounced. Any leader supported by the west is denounced. According to news reports the people who do vote, vote for the most moderate of the hardliners who are left, or they don't bother. Although I believe the people of Iran probably want peace,just like the citizens of the United States, the hard line clerics there continue to demonize the United States for everything. Hard to negotiate with people who already think you're the devil. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:27 PM The election consisted of two rounds, pdq, which were held on June 17, 2005, with a run-off on June 24. The election had an almost 60 percent turnout. I don't know if the election was entirely free and clear or not, but Ahmadinejad's predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, was a moderate, and he managed to get elected, so I don't see how they could possibly be all that terribly controlled. The US gov't can't support the more moderate leaders, the true power of the country lies with the mullahs and ayatollahs who continually disqualify any "moderate" from running. This is not true, Chief Chaos. As I said above, Ahmadinejad's predecessor, Mohammad Khatami, was a moderate. He was the one who made the overtures to the US with his offers of unconditional negotiations, and by rebuffing that offer, the US undermined his position with his electorate. The US refused the offer of negotiations because the US wants Iran to be run by its most extreme elements. That way, they can justify their planned acts of aggression on that country. The more the US ratchets up its war rhetoric with regard to Iran, the more the US helps the more hardline elements in that country solidify their hold on power. Iran has quite a lot of pro-Western, pro-Democracy citizens and they are also saying that the US is undermining the more moderate elements in Iran. And they are saying that they wish we would stop doing that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Amos Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:29 PM Rig, That's sort of idiotic. Obama has won 15 primary elections and 13 caucuses (28 contests); Hillary has won 15 primaries if you include PA and 1 causus. Total 16 contests. Obama leads her by popular votes, delegate votes, contests, and is sucking up her superdelegate presumed heads like a Hoover. Who's oblterated? Are you half blinded? Are all blind? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:33 PM I don't know how anyone can call 55% to 45% obliterated, either. It's certainly not enough to help her substantially in the overall counts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:36 PM >>"Does the USA not frequently express the fervent hope and desire for the present regime of Iran to be gone?" Please cite a source for that. << Bush iran "regime change" That will keep you reading for a while. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: meself Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:41 PM "Hard to negotiate with people who already think you're the devil." That's the kind of thing you say if you want to give some excuse for not negotiating with people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:50 PM And we've given the Iranians many good reasons to think we're the devil, too. Starting with when we crushed their fledgling democracy and put the Shah back in power, and when we propped him up while he brutalized his own people in much the same way Saddam did to his people in Iraq. And also when we were supporting Saddam's war against the Iranians, in which millions were killed. I think it's time for us to give them some reasons to not see us as the devil. We've certainly earned that characterization in their eyes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:51 PM By the way, most Iranians are very pro-US in terms of the people and culture of the US. What they hate is the way our government has been royally fucking them over for decades. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 22 Apr 08 - 11:58 PM Well this straw poll shows me that Hillary's irresponsible statement will help her with the Zionists and Christian Zionist Nut job vote. I'm not saying that y'all are that but if you lean this far the real nutters will lean farther. A vote for Obama is the only vote for peace. Rig, This is the zenith of Hillary's campaign. Pensylvania was here strongest possible state after New York. She started out 20 points up in the polls. She had the governor, the mayors of the two big cities and all of their machines, she had a primary closed to independents. She had catholics. She had that horrible debate and the press bought her "bittergate" BS hook line and sinker. She even convinced some people she was from Scranton. :-) Obama hotly contested this state. She is going to get ten Delegates. Big deal. On to Indiana then on to here. Hillary is out of cash. She has tapped all her doners. Obama is just getting started. Maybe we'll give him some more. Those ten delegates, much of the popular vote and the momentum swings back to Obama. Enjoy it while you can Mrs. C. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Wolfgang Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:50 AM Nuclear Weapons: Who Has What at a Glance Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: theleveller Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:05 AM Gun boat diplomacy is alive and well and living under the banner of "Democracy". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Wolfgang Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:21 AM McGrath and Little Hawk have repeated here their well known (from many threads) creative reading of Ahmadinejad's remarks about Israel. I wonder how it would read if they focused their creativity upon Clinton's remark. "Could" means of course something very different from "will". Clinton has only hinted to the obvious fact that the USA is much stronger than Iran. "Attack" could mean verbal attack in the UN. "Obliterate" of course means the country as we know it now with its present government and not the people living there. And all these (factually correct) complaints that Ahmadinejad's remark has been exaggerated in some quotes. Can you really take yourself serious complaining about it when you can spot exactly the same pattern in this thread with Clinton's remark. One of many examples: Threatening obliteration in exchange for any attack... (JtS). Any attack? Just BTW, since Ahmadinejad has only hinted to the obvious that like so many counties before Israel too might some day not be on the maps under this name (McGrath, Little Hawk), Clinton's if-then threat will never be executed for lack of the if-part. So there is nothing to worry about. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Slag Date: 23 Apr 08 - 05:53 PM Well thank God, well, no, that's not right. Thank Jack the Sailor that Jack the Sailor is the standard by which the sanity of all others, and especially anyone having an opposing point of view, is judged. At least we now know right from wrong. I used to think that the radical Islamists hated Israel. I guess I have just been misunderstanding all I have read or heard. It was probably Zionist lies and propaganda from the Zionist presses of the world. How could anyone get the mistaken idea that Achmaddidajob was really anti-Israel? I know the man loves rocketry as a hobby and he is just developing the long range sort so he can share his hobby with his neighbors. And the greenies assures us everyday that the world is about out of oil so gee, I guess I would want to develop nuclear stuff too, just in case. In the game of thermonuclear warfare, them what gets there firstest with the mostest wins. The other guy might be armed to the teeth but if he can't reach the button, so what? In the case of the US and the old USSR or even China such vast distances and areas are involved that no one could begin to imagine that a first strike would take out all ability to respond. Hence MAD was a tension-filled standoff. Israel is a country of around 5 million souls in an area smaller than any of the first three largest COUNTIES of California. Talk about fish in a barrel! Hillary's statement was CONDITIONAL, that is IF Iran did something so foolish as to try to take out Israel. Hers is a proper response to a VALID threat and one that ANY of our allies would like to hear from us. The difference between a threat and a valid threat is the means and the ability to carry out that threat. Iran has the means, those long range rockets. If, IF she develops nuclear weapons look out. The threat itself shows intent. Rodney King asked the right question "Why can't we all just get along?" Unfortunately, not everybody WANTS to get along. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:11 PM Sane is sane and easy to acertain. Hillary was talking about obliterating Iran in the context of using nuclear weapons. dinner jacker was talking about wiping Israel off the map in the context of the UN's creation of it. But it is oh so useful for the Zionists to distort theses statements. Heaven forbid that someone point out that Israel is a semi-democratic theocracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:35 PM Agreed, Wolfgang. ;-) Look, Hillary is just doing the usual thing that American politicians and Iranian politicians do to get votes and get people on their side. She is pounding her chest like a silverback gorilla doing a territorial defence routine, thus demonstrating her toughness, her patriotism, her will, and her determination to DEFEND America against all those dire THREATS out there...all those terrible foreigners who "hate democracy" and "want to destroy our way of life". She's doing the same kind of manipulative posturing that Ahmadinejad does in Iran when he blathers on about evil foreigners who "hate Islam" and who "want to destroy our way of life". They're all playing the same game. They raise fears about foreign threats. They appeal to national paranioa and national pride and patriotism. They brand their political opponents at home (like Mr Obama...) as being "not tough enough to deal with threats to our national security". Hillary is supposedly tough enough. Obama supposedly isn't. That's an old, OLD game in US politics, and it comes around at every election. It is, as I have said before, total bullshit. It's bullshit when Hillary does it. It's bullshit when McCaine does it. It's bullshit when (and if) Obama does it. It's bullshit when Ahmadinejad does it. It's bullshit when the Ayatollah does it. Don't expect any of them to stop doing it. Bullshit builds governments. (and armed forces) (and nuclear weapons) Note that I include Mr Ahmadinejad in my list of major bullshitters. Satisfied? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Goose Gander Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:49 PM Related by US miliary chaplain and psychologist Gustave Gilbert, who interviewed Joseph Goebbels in his cell at Nuremberg: "Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship." "There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars." "Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Bobert Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:49 PM Promising the possibiluty of another evening of televised "shock and awe" is what alot of undereducated people find entertaining... Hillary is playing to the dumbest among US... "Yeeeehaaaaaa, Debbie Jean... Come look at at this!!! Man, are we ever great, 'er what???" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:02 PM So true, Bobert. Yes, the waging of blitzkrieg war "Shock and Awe" on some foreign country appeals to the dumbest and most reactionary (and fearful) individuals in any society. I remember some such yahoos in my town when the war began in 2003. They were a small minority in this town, and all males too I noticed, but they were simply delighted to see bombs and missiles falling on Baghdad and people and things getting "blown up real good" by overwhelming American firepower. It brought some momentary excitement and bloodlust into their stupid, pathetic little lives...and at absolutely NO personal risk to them either. That was the best part from their point of view. They comprise maybe 15 or 20 % of the Canadian electorate, those guys. That would be my estimate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Riginslinger Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:28 PM I think there are a lot more of them in the US, but maybe that's because they were American bombs. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Bobert Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:39 PM Yeah, welcome to the latest chapter of the Southern Strategy... Shock'n Awe, brought to by... ...Cppenhaggen Tobacco, Budweiser, NASCAR and yer US Army where no ex-con... goes unrecruited!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:47 PM Darned right there are a lot more of them in the USA, Riginslinger. It's due to a number of factors. Your history (of many wars), your traditions (a lawless and extremely violent frontier), your status as a great power in the world, your status as a great economic and military empire. All of these are quite different from Canada's history, traditions, and modest status in the world, but you'd have to have grown up in both countries to know what I mean. I did grow up in both countries. I was in Canada age 0-10, in the USA age 10-20. Back in Canada since. I know where the differences lie between American and Canadian culture and psychology, and they are considerable. The only wars Canada has gone into are wars they were basically asked and expected to go into by Canada's "Big Brother" of the day, which was first the UK, later the USA. They were not wars of Canada's instigation or choosing. Canada acted as an appendage of Britian in the early days. Now we are a somewhat reluctant appendage of the USA. We go along, but not with much enthusiasm. Why do we go along? Well, our politicians and our moneyed people are fellow members and employees of the very same wealthy elite that runs the USA, that's why. And the same goes for the UK. Run by the same wealthy elite...or their close friends and partners in crime. It has very little to do with the will or intentions of the general population. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Riginslinger Date: 23 Apr 08 - 07:59 PM Yeah, I guess what I meant to say was there is a much larger percentage of the population here who think blowing up things in somebody else's country makes for a great spectator sport. It would be interesting to know how many of them profit financially from these endeavors. There was a story on NPR today about a large number of senior military officers who own shares in many of the companies who provide materials and services to the American war machine. I don't see why this isn't considered to be a personal conflict of interest for each one of them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: skipy Date: 23 Apr 08 - 08:05 PM Amos, what I am thinking is really very, very, simple, take them out before they take Isreal out! Only an hour before will do, not a case of "lets take them out for the sake of it". So if they are not a threat they can carry on, but, when they do become threat take them out. Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 23 Apr 08 - 08:08 PM Michael Morris that was an excellent post. Thank you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 08 - 08:10 PM Skipy, Iran is not a physical threat to Israel. They are a propaganda threat to Israel and to the imperialists in the US government. That's why they are being demonized. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 23 Apr 08 - 08:13 PM From: GUEST Date: 23 Apr 08 - 08:10 PM was me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Slag Date: 23 Apr 08 - 08:14 PM Yeah, I'm with you guys. Heads firmly tucked in the sand. I don't want no fight. I don't want my kids to die. I guess if some kindly but missunderstood person or group of persons wants to nuke us, blow up a few skyscrappers with jet liners, sink the Main or take our arms at Lexington, what the hell, nothing is worth fighting for. Heck, maybe they'll let US live and still work our farms for 'em. I mean, what did Israel ever do for us anyway? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Little Hawk Date: 23 Apr 08 - 08:30 PM "Take your neighbour out", skipy. He could be planning to kill you, you know, so just do it. Shoot him now. Before he ever gets the chance to shoot you. Blow his head off. People will understand your need to commit sudden murder once they realize that he was really planning to get you all along. Can you hear someone in Iran using your very same argument for a defensive first strike on Israel to save Iran from the Israelis? I can. Would that make it right for Iran to do that? When you have become as evil in your own intentions as the greatest evil you think you see in someone else outside you, how are you any different from them, and why should I want to see a world with people like you running it after you've killed all the people you claimed were planning to kill you? It's a closed loop. It's an argument that justifies aggression, first strike, and premeditated mass murder....as long as you do it to the other guy, but not when the other guy does it to you. Murder isn't murder if you do it. It is if the other guy does it. If the other guy used the same argument you're using, you'd say he was insane, and you'd be right! He could equally well say you're insane, and he'd be right. Such insane arguments are the arguments that people like Hitler used to massacre 6 million Jews. Slag - No one has nuked you. No sovereign nation hit you on 911. (a private and small and clandestine group of conspirators hit you on 911...that's a matter for an international police investigation, not an excuse for a foreign war with some sovereign nations) I highly doubt that the Spanish sank the Maine (they were desperate to avoid a war with the USA, because they couldn't possibly win it). Iran is no conceivable threat to the USA, and Israel can blow up the Iranians fifty times over without ANY help at all from the USA. Israel has 200 or more nuclear weapons, and can hit Iran with all of them. It isn't your life that's under the gun here, it's the lives of millions of Iranians and Israelis that is under the gun. You are NOT the injured party here or the guy in the gunsights. Iran did not cause 911. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: CarolC Date: 23 Apr 08 - 09:18 PM Because of Israel's submarine nukes, it also has second strike capabilities. That's an extremely good deterrent for anyone who might have any ideas of wanting to nuke it first. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary threatens to obliterate Iran From: Amos Date: 23 Apr 08 - 10:21 PM The fact that some things are worth fighting for does NOT mean that "anything that looks similar in some way" is grounds for an attack. The right to sanity is worth defending, and that includes the right to see the right target and differentiate between different points in time without having a push-button blowhard bully you with fear and hyper-association. A |
