 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Obama/____________ '08???
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: katlaughing Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:10 PM That's the perfect analogy of them, Alice! Except I like P&B and don't think they are inherently evil!**bg** |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: irishenglish Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:13 PM Thread drift alert-"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering? I think so Brain, but how are we going to get monkey's to use dental floss?!" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Wesley S Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:16 PM Here's a story from CNN: (CNN) — A host of prominent Democrats are pushing for an Obama-Clinton unity ticket — but Jimmy Carter isn't one of them. The former president, who publicly endorsed Barack Obama shortly before polls closed Tuesday in the final two primary states, told a London newspaper that a joint ticket between the two former rivals would be "the worst mistake that could be made." "That would just accumulate the negative aspects of both candidates," Carter told the Guardian, saying that both candidates' vulnerabilities could overshadow that the ticket if the two team up together. "If you take that 50 percent who just don't want to vote for Clinton and add it to whatever element there might be who don't think Obama is white enough or old enough or experienced enough or because he's got a middle name that sounds Arab, you could have the worst of both worlds," he said. This is not the first time the former president has expressed doubt in the success of a unity ticket. Speaking at a Houston event late last month, Carter called the prospect "highly unlikely," and said other potential picks could better serve the Illinois senator. "I think it would be highly unlikely for Obama to ask her to take it," he said then. "Because I don't see how it would help his ticket. I think he needs somebody like a [former Georgia Sen.] Sam Nunn, but I won't name others. But I think if he asked her, she would take it." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: maire-aine Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:49 PM First choice for VP: John Edwards Second choice for VP: Bill Richardson Secretary of State: Joe Biden First Supreme Court vacancy: Hillary Clinton Secretary of Defense: Jim Webb |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: katlaughing Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:54 PM I agree with Jimmy Carter. I hope Obama is listening. Caroline Kennedy is one of the people advising him on VP choices. It should be interesting! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Jun 08 - 04:20 PM
Oh - and you're not deleted for "provocative opinions" - it's for personal attacks and general nastiness. Rational opinions are welcome here, no matter what side of the fence they're on. Nastiness and bullying, we can do without. Speak your mind, but don't attack people. OK, now back to the discussion. -Joe Offer- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Amos Date: 04 Jun 08 - 05:29 PM The "unity" of the Democratic effort between now and November does not require Hillary being the Vice Presidential candidate. It requires everyone clear their minds of garbage, baggage, bias, prejudice, and lizard-think, and impose a task on themselves to examine how to bring about the best available result. That (IMHO) is what good democratic process is all about. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: GUEST,Cruiser Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:00 PM Jim Webb. A very intelligent U.S. Naval Academy Graduate, Marine Corp Officer, author, and a true patriot. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Bobert Date: 04 Jun 08 - 06:08 PM Not to mention that he counters McCain's toughness... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: kendall Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:31 PM Bert, you are right. A recent poll says that 30% of the voters still think Obama is a Muslim. That's what we get for allowing ignorant people to vote. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: pdq Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:40 PM Obama's father was a faithful Muslim. According the laws of Islam, Barak Obama is a Muslim. There is no way he can get out of that. When the situation suits him, as in travels to Muslim countries or a speech to Black Muslims, he makes sure they feel he is one of them. He is a hypocrite, but most people are to some extent. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Bobert Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:51 PM That is a real stretch, pdq... Faith isn't something that anyone is born with... It's something that one accepts with search and learning... And for those of us of Faith, relearning from time to time... And your sources for when Obama gave a speech to Black Muslims, por favor??? I haven't heard about that... Where and when did it occur??? B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: akenaton Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:51 PM The "change" promised by Mr Obama is already starting to take place. Unfortunately the change is in his professed stance on American foreign policy LINK |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: pdq Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:01 PM I have talked to people of the Moslem faith. They all say Obama is Muslim whether he likes it or not. Calling people "ignorant" because they know the truth is just plain mean-spirted. People who consider Barak Obama to be a Muslim include (probably) all the 9 million Muslims in the US. All must be considered "ignorant"? I hope not. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Amos Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:08 PM The NPR folks interviewed three leading Muslim religious leaders; they concurred that he is not a Muslim because of his birth, but only by his choice to become one. As such he never has been Muslim. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Bobert Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:25 PM Yer sources seem to be a little on the skimpy side, pdq.... So until you come up with like, ahhhhhh, real sources... I think you can consider your assertion that Obama is a Muslim has been fairly well debunked... But I reepect your right to say what ever you want, regardless of the truthfullness... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Little Hawk Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:28 PM You can be human whether you like it or not. But can you be "Muslim" whether you like it or not? LOL! Obama is forced to be Muslim because his father was one??? And you say "Calling people ignorant because they know "the truth"????? What the heck is "the truth"? Who actually knows THE TRUTH? I know a of people think they do.... Well, it's a matter of opinion, right? And what is that opinion based ON? Opinions are based mostly on things people have been told by other people...who were told the same thing by other people...who were told the same thing by other people...trace that back to the very first time it was told in some ancient book and you go a looooooong way back! So all people are doing is what a parrot does. They were told to say "Polly want a cracker!" and they say it over and over again. They were told to say "I pledge allegiance to the flag..." and they say it over and over again. They were told that "If you're born a Muslim, you're always a Muslim", and they believe it and say it over and over again. They were told that "All Jews think about is money" and they believe that too and say it over and over again. Now list about 22,000 other stupid parrot-like things people are repeating over and over again because someone else told them to!!! So, pdq, why would you choose to support a few million Polly Parrots who are repeating the notion that "If you're born to a Muslim father, you're always a Muslim"???? Why would you choose to believe that or give it any credence? Because it's convenient to the argument you are engaged in right now, that's why. ;-) If you were arguing the opposite, you would laugh at the notion. And you accuse Obama of hypocrisy???? Gad, man, take note of the beam in your own eye! Obama is anything he wishes to be. If he wishes to be Christian, he is Christian, for as long as he wishes to be Christian and no longer. If he acts like "one of them" when he's visiting a Muslim community (meaning he dons some of their cultural clothing as a sign of friendship and respect for their culture)...he's not doing anything different from what thousands of politicians have been doing since time immemorial. He's attempting to create some goodwill. Goodwill is something we could use a lot more of these days, specially between Christians and Muslims and Jews, wouldn't you say? I was born to atheists, pdq. Now I have developed some spiritual beliefs over the years, but not in connection with any specific church or organized religion. Ain't I lucky? You cannot polly-parrot me as being a member of any specific religion, and that gives me a freedom that I am quite glad to have. But I bet it would get in the way if I was running for office in the USA. Yup, it could be a real impediment, I'm thinking. I might almost be forced to join some Christian congregation or else face the fact that I was unelectable. The notion that Obama has no choice about whether or not he is (technically) a Muslim!...good Lord!!! Get serious, man. He is a human being, and human beings are all supposed to be FREE! That means free of someone else's stereotyping as to who and what they are. THEY decide who and what they are. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: pdq Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:31 PM Personally, I don't give a rat's ass what religion Obama is. I do object to Jeremiah Wright's anti-White and anti-American rants. If Obama ever shared those beliefs he is unfit to hold public office. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Amos Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:11 PM PDQ: You obviously did not understand what Wright said about America. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Bobert Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:22 PM No, Amos, he/she doesn't... Probably got the "20 second" media version which played 24/7 for 2 weeks... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: pdq Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:30 PM Obama has a perfect right to reject his Moslem birth. I would . Really, I don't give a rat's ass whether Obama does or not. But, since about 1.8 billion Moslems, if asked, would say he is a Moslem, then he is a Moslem. Live with it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:49 PM It just is not true that you become a Muslem merely by virtue of having a Muslim parent, any more than you become a Catholic (for example) merely by virtue of your parentage. It's not analogous in this respect to Judaism. Insofar as there may be Muslims or Catholics who think you do, they just don't know their religion too well. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: katlaughing Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:40 PM about 1.8 billion Moslems, if asked, would say he is a Moslem, then he is a Moslem 1.8 billion Christians might say I was Christian, that would not make me a Christian. Why do you believe such an absurd statement? It matters NOT what anyone else thinks a person is; they are who they choose to be, no matter their birth, etc. BTW, Joe, thanks! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: pdq Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:49 PM I did not say I believe anything about Obama's religion. I said that Islam has rules, and one is that the son of a faithful Muslim is, by birth, a Muslim. If you fools don't like that, take it up with the practitioners of Islam. I don't write the rules but I do like to inform the ignorant whenever possible. Have a nice day. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Amos Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:52 PM Not according to the experts of sharia which I have cited, But the truth is you don't know, and I don't know. So maybe it's one sect vs another. In any case it absolutely inaccurate t call Obama a Muslim in ordinary conversation knowing full well what can be misconstrued thereby. It would be a serious disservice. HE says he is not. In this country that's how someone's religion gets defined. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: pdq Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:55 PM Congratulations, TIA. You have reached the lowest level anyone has ever acheived in the history of Mudcat. Proud of yourself? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: GUEST,TIA Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:25 PM "Obama's father was a faithful Muslim. According the laws of Islam, Barak Obama is a Muslim. There is no way he can get out of that." And Hitler was a Jew. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Amos Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:52 PM Obama was raised a Christian from the time he was six. He has never personally espoused Muslimism. As such the only opinion the millions of Muslim PDQ conjures up can have is possibly that he is an apostate. Being an apostate does not make you one the gang. I think this is just wild rumormongering. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Ebbie Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:57 PM According the laws of Islam, Barak Obama is a Muslim. There is no way he can get out of that." pdq pdq's source? Jim Lad, I do believe." "I was born to atheists, pdq." LH. Little Hawk, it must grieve you that you have no choice but to be an atheist also. LOL |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: mg Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:38 AM Well, you are not automatically a Catholic, but you are baptized at a few days of age. Someone sprinkles holy water on you and says some words and you are Catholic. You can decide later on you would rather be a Hindu, or an atheist, or a Mormon, but you are branded a Catholic forever and ever. It is not inherited though...you have to be baptized. I don't buy this you are totally free to choose your religion. That is a fairly new concept. It's a good one, to be sure..be what you want, but respect those who are in the older traditions. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Jun 08 - 12:49 AM "branded a Catholic forever and ever". It would be interesting to know what a real authority might say about this. I suspect Joe has more expertise on this sort of question than many of us, who seem to often sound off on any number of topics without much logic or factual basis. Hope he comments. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Amos Date: 05 Jun 08 - 01:22 AM In t is country, if a Catholic foreswears, and becomes a Buddhist, then by God he's a Buddhist. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Jun 08 - 02:57 AM Well, the "mark" of Baptism is supposed to be indelible (although not visible) - so, from one perspective, a person baptized Catholic is Catholic for life. If the person doesn't practice Catholicism, then it probably doesn't make much difference to him. Islam and Judaism are passed on by birth - Islam by the father and Judaism by the mother. I don't know if either faith has a procedure for removing oneself from the religion. Once again, if the person doesn't practice the faith, then he is functionally not a member of the faith. So, in terms of function, it would seem that a person must practice a religion to be a member. That's something that flows from within the individual. In terms of definition, the individual may not have much control - we are mostly defined by forces outside ourselves, whether or not that definition fits our essence. I'm not well-versed in the legalities of membership in Islam, but I think it could be validly argued that Barack Obama both is and is not a Muslim. That depends on one's perspective - but for fundamentalists, having more than one perspective is anathema. My four kids and my four siblings were all baptized Catholic, and none of them practice the religion. I would think I would be insulting them if I called them Catholic. If Barack Obama says he's not Muslim, than I'd say he's telling the truth. I was appalled by an e-mail I received this week that called him a liar for saying he's not a Muslim. For all intents and purposes, Barack Obama is not a Muslim, although some people want to pin that label on him. And although my children and siblings were baptized Catholic by parents who believed it a wonderful thing to bring up children in a faith context, they don't want to be called Catholic - and I respect that. -Joe- |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: akenaton Date: 05 Jun 08 - 05:22 AM And why does it matter?? Mr Obama's speech to the AIPAC, makes it perfectly clear that Mr Bush's policy on Palestine and the Middle East will be safe in his hands. The rhetoric is already changing, you lefties have been hooked, you don't matter any more....now it's blue collar America, working class Conservatives, Southern racists....the whole ensemble. By the time Mr Obama reaches the White House....if he does, his soul will certainly be the property of the Devil....Ake |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:30 AM Simmer down, Ake. If you don't think Obama is huge progress for the US, and a rather better choice for the fall than McCain-- who will be elected if Obama is not-- you need to do a bit more reading. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:40 AM Islam and Judaism are passed on by birth That's not in line with what I've read, so far as Islam is concerned. Of course the Islamic scholars who've been quoted in this context may be out of line with mainstream Islam on this. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Jun 08 - 07:43 AM Re: topic: My respect for Obama continues to grow. His camp is squelching rumors of Hillary as VP. Good thing. She would bring nothing but trouble to the ticket. Her role needs to be to start breaking her supporters in to the fact that her campaign is over. Then she needs to start pushing--hard--to get those same supporters to get behind Obama. It should be an easy sell--they are close to identical on the issues, and his campaign, in contrast to hers, tried to stay positive as much as possible. If she ever wants any kind of political future beyond NY Senator, she has to break her neck to try to get him elected. Now. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: kendall Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:05 AM Ron, you are right. Too many people see her as a foul mouthed vindictive witch. (Yes all you Wicca, I know what a witch really is) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:07 AM Also: "No anti-war candidate has ever won the White House". Not precisely. Wilson in 1916 had as his main slogan: "He kept us out of war". You can say he was already in office. But it was primarily his anti-war appeal which re-elected him--in a very close election. That war was already in progress. As is the Iraq war. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:08 AM "If she ever wants any kind of political future beyond NY Senator,..." Which would be what, now that she's been squeezed out of the nomination? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM Presidential candidate next time if Obama doesn't win. Or the time after that perhaps if he does. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:18 AM So, I am an Amish person? Just not a practicing one? Amazing. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Bobert Date: 05 Jun 08 - 10:24 AM One of the principles that this country was founded on was freedom to "practice" whatever religion one wants to "practice"... The entire concept of "practicing" implies that thes freedom is based on a transcient verb, meaning that one must actually make some effort to "do" something... It's beyond my comprehension that anyone who believes in the peremise that Americans have the freedom to practice a religion oif their choice can make any statement that narrows that freedom... In other words, to brand anyone newborn as a Catholic, a Jew , a Christain, or whatever, is inherently un-American... And given the nature of a post 9/11 world is nothing but a cheap and juvenilistic endeavor... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Riginslinger Date: 05 Jun 08 - 10:36 AM The real problem is, they keep practicing and practicing, are they ever going to get it right? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Bobert Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:36 AM Good question, Rigs, and one that has been asked in many a sermon... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: kendall Date: 05 Jun 08 - 01:34 PM Wilson was a sitting president.There is a difference. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 05 Jun 08 - 02:12 PM Talking in terms of "the principles that this country was founded on" isn't really relevant in this context. Important, but not relevant. What is relevant here is religious law, not civil law. And I still haven't been able to find any indication that Islamic religious law regards religion as a matter of heredity, any more than is the case for religious law in any Christian denomination. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: Ron Davies Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:54 PM Hillary was "forced out" by her own incompetence---running a disastrous campaign. We'll detail the aspects later--since some of her fans don't seem to realize there was no conspiracy--except in their lively imaginations. Interesting how for some people their entire world is run by absurd conspiracies--if it's not the Mexicans, it's religion, or "the media" or...or...or It's so neat--relieves them of thinking at all. As to what she can do now: 1) possibly majority leader--eventually--not for a while 2) become power in health care legislation 3) possibly Supreme Court But none of that will be remotely possible unless she breaks her neck to try to elect Obama first. Right now. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: mg Date: 06 Jun 08 - 12:39 AM How could you appoint someone with either honesty issues or delusional mentality, remember Travel office, missing documents, FBI files, etc....with a husband with very questionable international ties, to Supreme COurt. What a stretch of the imagination. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Obama/____________ '08??? From: John MacKenzie Date: 06 Jun 08 - 06:20 AM Terry where are you? |
