BS: Why you don't like gay marriage

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 07:46 AM

To the homophobes: EVERYONE NEEDS A DOG TO KICK

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 08:58 AM

The idea that because a gay couple can't make a baby, they are therefore incapable of nurturing one is just beyond belief, daylia.

Of course there will be problems in the schoolyard, and if not over something like this, then over something else, like who has the coolest clothes, or who's fat, or who's a nerd, etc. If you want to talk about nature, it's certainly in the nature of adolescents to give each other a hard time.

The thought that one's sexual preferences has anything whatsoever to do with one's capacity to be a loving, supportive parent is so off the mark.

When oh when will we just accept each other as fellow humans, all capable and sometimes sadly incapable of raising healthy youngsters?

I have quite a few gay friends now who are raising kids, and they have just as many-but no more-problems as any other parents.

The kids are coping quite well, as long as they don't have to worry about well-meaning folks like you.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 09:34 AM

Ellenpoly, over the years I have had many personal dealings (through volunteer work with streetkids and in the schools) with homosexual and bisexual kids and their parents, as well as homosexual and bisexual adults. I'm sorry to say that very few of these are what I consider to be either physically, socially or emotionally "healthy" or "coping quite well".

In Canada, a whopping 39% of teenage males who commit suicide are either homosexual or bisexual, according to stats I was reading yesterday.

I'm glad the people you know are doing so much better, and here's hoping it continues to be so!

If people don't care for having their behaviors or choices constrained by the "laws" of nature, they can certainly use the latest scientific technology to bypass those "laws" these days. However, there's very often an unforeseen and heavy price to be paid for that ... and as usual, it's the weakest and most powerless members of society who pay that price.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: John P
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 09:37 AM

Daylia,
You've been making lots of arguments about protecting kids by keeping gay marriage illegal. What you haven't done is responded to the comments I made about that in my very first post:

I wonder why he isn't putting his energy toward outlawing alcholics, drug addicts, and violent criminals having children. We have plenty of evidence that being beaten as child, or exposed to drugs in the womb, or being ignored, has very harmful effects on children, yet no one is proposing constitutional amendments banning any of these. So I am forced to conclude that this isn't the real reason you don't like gay marriage, either.

Please do so, explaining why you are not proposing laws banning marriage, procreation, and adoption by known classes of child abusers. If you aren't willing to do so, re-read the last sentence in the quote above.

Thanks,
John Peekstok

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: John P
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 09:40 AM

brucie,
Thanks for bringing up the argument I forgot include at the beginning of this discussion. It's perhaps the most important:

It's none of your business!!

JP

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: *daylia*
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 09:53 AM

Wow -- now I'm being told that I'm "making lots of arguments about protecting kids by keeping gay marriage illegal"

When did I ever say "gay marriage should be kept illegal", John?

It doesn't really matter, anyway. My point of view doesn't seem to be making anyone's day here, nothing I've read above has convinced me that a change of mind is either wise or necessary, and I've spent way too much time on this already today.

So carry on, folks ... I've said my piece, may my time and efforts benefit someone at least a little, and thanks for the discussion.

daylia

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: freda underhill
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 09:57 AM

I have know several couples who are lesbians, who are in a long term relationship, and who are raising children together. In each case those parents are highly committed and have done a very good job with their kids.

Yes, a large portion of teenagers who commit suicide are either homosexual or bisexual. Often that's because the thought of facing a lifetime of bigotry is daunting, because they can't cope with the reaction of peers (humilation, ostracism) and because its all too much. When are we going to have a world where people can grow up feeling that they don't have to fit an image provided by someone else. I made sure my children knew when they reached their early teens that if they were gay or bisexual, it wouldn't affect the way that I love them in any way.

As for following nature, some species of ape are bisexual.

http://www.primates.com/bonobos/bonobo-info.html

http://www.primates.com/chimps/chimpanzee-info.html

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: GUEST,Fred Miller
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 10:06 AM

Same gender marriage is different than gay marriage. I want to reserve the distinction, for an option most people haven't yet contemplated.
Gay marriage is Bill and Debra are man and wife, yet both are gay. I used to um, not oppose this, but find it silly. Sometimes it is.

Gay marriage has been going on, it's a legal option for gays to marry opposite gender gays, have kids, etc., and they do. Nobody cares much about the bedroom, it would seem, as long as inter-gender marriage is at least parodied.

The new option in same gender marriage is that heterosexuals might decide there are benefits to being married, a la Lennon and McCartney, (who later divorced). One can imagine party bachelor hetero dudes in pairs now, best-friend girly-women in sets--perhaps in part as a force-field to protect them from the dangers of cross-gender marriage.

It may erode traditional relationships, in that people may begin to realise they can form committed relationships to anyone they want, without any permission at all. The American norm of huddled alienated clusters, fearful and mistrustful of everyone else, might begin to degrade. No wonder conservative fascists are concerned. They are right to oppose it--so far as preserving their way of life is potentially threatened.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Amos
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 10:20 AM

No wonder conservative fascists are concerned.

Just so -- you have identified the group correctly. But the truth is that their excuses are groundless -- they are really concerned that if gay marriages are an open issue they might be drawn into one!!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:07 AM

Thankfully not a UK problem. Social Services recognise the value in people, regardless of gender, and same sex adoptions are welcomed.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:21 PM

People who oppose same-sex unions but also support opposite-sex unions feel threatened by that. It's a matter of fear, not a matter of reason.

It was JK Galbraith who coined the phrase, "The Age of Uncertainty" (and wrote a book by that name), and indeed we are living in that. Situations become conservative by their very nature, which is why we have a 'majority rule' mentality. Accepting new ideas is difficult for most people, maybe a spinoff from our desire to survive as a species. Measure twice, cut once kinda thing. So, I understand people's reluctance to accept this kind of change. I think in time it will not matter, but I know it does matter a great deal to those who are subject to discrimination or hatred based on their choice of 'significant other'.

My personal take on it is that it's not my business. That's what it boils down to for me. I have homosexual friends and I know same-sex couples who do just fine raising kids. So, what's the problem?

IMHO

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Nerd
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:41 PM

I know daylia's not listening anymore, but

1) her subsequent examples had to do with children who are gay, not children whose parents are gay. Children (teens, I should say) who are gay often suffer because of confusion, because their crushes cannot be reciprocated or even expressed, because they are ostracized by friends who fear that they might be sexually interested, because their parents reject them, try to change them, or even throw them out, etc. This contribites to the high suicide rates among gay tens.

Adopted children of gay parents do not have these problems. They MAY have the same problems as racial minorities, religious minorities, linguistic minorities, the marginalized, etc. So again, why should racial minorities, religious minorities, linguistic minorities, the marginalized, etc., be allowed to have kids and expose them to possible ostracism? If you prevent the gays from doing it, why not prevent all these other groups, too?

Because racial discrimination is less acceptable than discrimination based on sexual orientation.

2) If a teen IS gay, having gay parents is helpful, not harmful, in resolving the other issues that gay teens face. So I wouldn't be surprised if gay children of gay parents are LESS prone to suicide.

3) By saying "she and her peers see it up close and personal every day in the schoolyard," daylia has to be confused. Why? Because what we were talking about was this quote: "in a day in age where teenagers are still being killed because they are gay (which is very very sad, i agree) we shouldn't be placing helpless children in such situations."

So, do these kids REALLY see gay children MURDERED every day? Of course they don't. In fact, daylia provided no evidence that the kid in question had any firsthand experience of violence against gay children at all.

4) daylia's quote from the Youth and Violence article supports my point. It was "The most common victims of youth violence are: peers, including girlfriends, boyfriends and other young people; family members, including siblings and parents; and members of ethnocultural groups or sexual minorities (homosexuals, lesbians, bisexuals)." Once again, children of gay parents suffer the same risks as children of black parents. If black parents can take the risk, why can't gay parents?

5) daylia's point that gay people are "sterile and barren naturally" is still ridiculous. Gay people can have sex and become parents in the natural way if they wish. They just cannot do it with each other. We do not consider a single woman "barren" just because she can't produce a baby by herself. Why is a gay woman "barren" just because she can't produce a baby with her gay partner?

A single woman, or a gay woman, has every right to have sex and become pregnant and have a child out of wedlock. So why outlaw the adoption of children by gay parents, which in most cases is a better life than foster care or orphanages?

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:28 PM

Why? Because the kinds of sex that don't involve male/female genital copulation scare a lot of conservative straight people, and when they picture any other kind of sex (which of course in their minds' eye they probably do visualise if they can figure out the positions), it scares the bejesus out of them. Could be they're afraid it could happen to them (or maybe they're afraid they'd like it. . . )

Condemning "forbidden fruit" is not an uncommon pastime for those who announce to the world that they are in posession of a patch of moral high ground. But it's an illusion, and the courts and the laws are slow to come around to recognizing that the playing field should be level.

Forbidden Fruit a flavor has
That lawful Orchards mocks --
How luscious lies within the Pod
The Pea that Duty locks

-----------Emily Dickenson

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:34 PM

According to the U.S. Census Bureau (2000), the number of unmarried couples living together increased 72% between 1990 and 2000. However, only 11% of cohabitating couples are same sex couples.

This isn't about gay lifestyle, it is about the waning power of the Anglo-American hegemony in US culture among heterosexuals. They are just using gay bashing to get the laws changed to legislate marriage as a condition of cohabitation, in order to deny financial benefits to single and unmarried people.

Try a little reading here at the Alternatives to Marriage Project's website. It is quite enlightening.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:46 PM

As for Daylia's posts, it's simple. Intolerance should be worked on every day in every school. People are different in all sorts of ways, as Ellenpoly stated.

If you've been involved with school's and did noting to destroy intollerance, you are part of the problem.

Until we end the intollerance, anyone can become a victim. Even you Daylia. If someone picks on you, are you going to say your lifestyle is wrong?

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:39 PM

I don't think people form gay relationships with the express purpose in mind of producing chidren, do they? :-)

Some people in gay relationships evidently wish to raise children anyway. Okay, fine. Each individual case will go, I suppose, on its own merits. God knows, there are enough dysfunctional heterosexual relationships out there raising kids aren't there?

I have always considered homosexuality and lesbianism to be "outside the norm" (meaning...not the usual choice of the majority of people in most societies). That does not mean that I consider them bad or think that they should be persecuted or legally restricted in some way. It's a matter of personal choice.

After all, being a folk musician is outside the norm too these days...if you go by averages. I've been unusual all my life, and I like it. I can understand that gays like to be gay. Fine with me.

I do think, though, that there's a tremendously vocal special interest group pushing any and all gay-related issues in the media and courts these days, constantly trying to find another windmill to tilt against like Don Quixote...and it sometimes gets a bit ridiculous. Perhaps that is what daylia is reacting against. For the past week there has been a big brouhaha in my town about whether or not to have a "Gay Pride" week...and it has raised the usual furious debates and accusations...rather unnecessarily, in my opinion. Should we next have to decide whether or not to have an "East Indian Pride" week, and a "People who don't want to have children Pride" week, and a "Bearded Men's Pride" week, and a "Blonde Pride" week (to reassure those who have been hurt in the past by "blonde" jokes), and so on, and so on? Gimme a break...

There is, of course, an equally vocal and strident special interest group opposing and attacking gays at the same time.

Seems to me just maybe those two groups of people deserve each other. :-) It gives them both someone to hate.

As for me, I don't particularly care about it one way or another. As Bruce said, it's none of my business.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:09 PM

I know a couple (two men) who live in California who have been together for well over thirty years. They aren't "married," but they might as well be. Their relationship is far more stable than a lot of male-female marriages I'm acquainted with. And they're what might be considered "pillars of the community." One teaches at a local university (often going around the country and abroad lecturing on his subject), and the other knows all there is to know about English royalty through history, and is an authority on the American Civil War. He tutors the kids of rich folks (including movie stars) who are having trouble in school. He charges plenty, but the kids learn. They are a stable, reliable couple: home-owners and tax payers.

I also know another couple (men—and they went through a marriage or "commitment" ceremony) who are active in the church I often attend. They're both attorneys, and one of them is on the church council. Everyone in the church knows their relationship and nobody cares; it's their business and nobody else's. In fact, the commitment ceremony was conducted in the church by the pastor. All the bells and whistles:   invitations, flowers, reception in the parish house, the works. During the past decade, they have adopted two Chinese orphans (went to China to get them). The first is about six now and I think the second is around three or so. They're happy kids, obviously being well raised, and lest anyone wonder about the psychological effects of being raised by two fathers, consider that these two kids are a helluva lot better off now than if they had been left in the orphanage.

Barbara and I also know a Lesbian couple or two. Two women living together seem to raise far fewer eyebrows than two men. But we live in a particularly tolerant (I prefer to think "enlightened") area of the city, and although you don't really see it that often, two men walking down the street hand-in-hand goes essentially unnoticed.

Barbara and I have been happily married for nearly twenty-seven years. I cannot figure out how these folks' relationships, whether they are married or just living together, in any way threaten our marriage. Anyone who maintains that it does is going to have to explain it to us in specific and explicit terms.

There is a gay man (also in a relationship) in the writers' group that Barbara and I belong to. One day I got to discussing the matter of gay marriage with him. My thought was that there are two factors involved:   one is the legal relationship, covering matters such as insurance, inheritance, being regarded as next of kin in hospital situations, etc.; in general, having the same legal status and rights as a heterosexual marriage. The other would be the religious aspect:   wedding or commitment ceremony in a church, similar to a heterosexual wedding. There are a number of mainstream churches around this city that will perform such a ceremony for a same-sex couple. But should this not be offered in the church of their choice, at least the legal aspects are taken care of in a civil ceremony. He pretty much agreed, but he did insist that the word "marriage" should apply. Having never been one to "stand on ceremony" so to speak, I'm not sure why this is so important to him, but apparently it is. As far as I'm concerned, that's fine.

After all, it does not affect Barbara and me in any way that I can see.

I remember seeing an interview on TV with the late Quentin Crisp, well know British gay man (used to refer to himself as "one of the stately homos of England"). Along in years, his appearance was quite androgynous: shirt and slacks (could be worn by either sex), fairly long hair, bluish tint. The interviewer commented on his appearance and asked him if he were ever asked whether he was a man or a woman. He responded that it happens quite often. He said that his stock response was, "Does it matter? What did you have in mind?"

Think about it.

Don Firth

P. S.: By the way, as far as the proposed Constitutional amendment is concerned, those who propose it display their ignorance of what the Constitution is all about:

The citizens of this country are free to do anything they want, unless it is specifically forbidden by law. [Laws are passed by legislators, not by Constitutional amendment or executive order.]

The government of this country is not free to do anything, unless it is specifically permitted by the Constitution.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:18 PM

Little Hawk's suggestion about Blonde Pride Week would get my vote, with a minor adaptation: TOPLESS Blonde Pride Week. If it catches on, we could make it a bi-weekly thing (little pun there).

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:35 PM

Now that you mention it, Brucie, there is no "Goat Pride Week" in this town...or in any Ontario town or municipality that I know of. That sucks. Something should be done about it. I think that a bunch of high-priced lawyers should be consulted immediately, and legal action taken to ensure that attractive goats like Esmeralda receive the respect and equality that they deserve in this society!

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:45 PM

Let's just sterilise them all and be done with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: GUEST,Blackcatter
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:49 PM

GUEST - we'll start with you, as soon as we find the magnifying glass to see your wee-wee.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:54 PM

hey i like watching a good dike scene on-screen, but those fudge-packers i don't want to have anything to do with.

Glad my kids are straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:59 PM

How many kids have you got?

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:00 PM

To my great surprise, my Mom, a known fag hag (that was the slang term for straight women whose friends were almost all gay men back when I was growing up), opposes the idea of gay marriage. When pressed she said it's because they (gays) should stop trying to imitate us (straights) and just do their own thing. I had 2 answers:

1) If *I* do the standing in line to apply for a marriage license, why should the goverment look into my mate's jeans? Or, if I am married to a same-sex person, why should I have to use a different word than if I were married to another gender? Isn't the point for the term to be gender-neutral so that everybody can seem normal?

2) They aren't imitating the straights, they're trying to be normal, which is what the straights are considered. See point (1), above.

My take is marriage in a church can be as limited as the church wants (the Quakers will marry same-sex couples, the Catholic's won't), and marriage in a civil ceremony should not even ask the gender question.

And to John P, don't forget about taking slaves only from non-neighboring tribes and dashing someone's children's heads against the stones, can't recall whose exactly...

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:01 PM

Goat Pride Week: Has a nice ring to it, dontcha think? I love you Ontario boys. You just keep thinking there Butch; that's what you're good at.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:02 PM

NO pun was intended there. Sigmund, where ARE you?

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM

Trolling again, MG?

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM

My solution to the whole damned thing was not to get married at all! This way I could have a relationship with whom I pleased and no one (hopefully) had anything to say about the matter. If I had wanted children though, then I would have married.

Accordingly, I'm not exactly sure why gays would want to marry in the first place, but I don't really care if they do. It doesn't hurt me and it doesn't hurt anyone else either as far as I'm concerned.

It would be nice, though, if people would stop bickering over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:07 PM

No trolling Silly river. Just voicing my opinions like everyone else.

Three teen sons Little Hawk. their pappy is a pistol and they are son of a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:13 PM

So, National Blond Topless Goats Week?

Works for me!

;-D

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:21 PM

Yes, a topless goat is something to see all right. Esmeralda is more what I would call a brunette, though.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:32 PM

Didn't mean to get involved here,as anyone who speaks their mind and does not agree with the pervasive "gay culture " is on a hiding to nothing.
I think it was little Hawk who said he didnt understand why they should want to "marry" in the first place ,and as usual he goes right to the point.

The whole charade is designed to raise the profile of homosexuality and bring it under the umbrella of "normal behaviour".

The gay lobby is not weak,but powerful and vociferous, and god help anyone who stands in the way of its agenda,they will be smeared as bigots and reactionaries.
Im no right winger ,nor am I a bigot,but to my mind, many of these unfortunate people are battling, not "Straight society", but their own psychological problems.
I very much agree with Daylai.   We need to find out a lot more about this condition ,before entrusting children to unstable people...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:37 PM

"We need to find out a lot more about this condition ,before entrusting children to unstable people"

CONDITION?

UNSTABLE?


OH



MY



GOD

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:42 PM

Ellen polly...Would you like to address the Whole of the post, not just pieces quoted out of context ...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: kendall
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:55 PM

Will we ever come out of the dark ages?

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM

Oh well...
Paedophile priests !!


Oh



My


God

Sue taught me to do that...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM

Didn't mean to get involved here,as anyone who speaks their mind and does not agree with the pervasive "gay culture " is on a hiding to nothing.
I think it was little Hawk who said he didnt understand why they should want to "marry" in the first place ,and as usual he goes right to the point.

The whole charade is designed to raise the profile of homosexuality and bring it under the umbrella of "normal behaviour".

The gay lobby is not weak,but powerful and vociferous, and god help anyone who stands in the way of its agenda,they will be smeared as bigots and reactionaries.
Im no right winger ,nor am I a bigot,but to my mind, many of these unfortunate people are battling, not "Straight society", but their own psychological problems.
I very much agree with Daylai.   We need to find out a lot more about this condition ,before entrusting children to unstable people...Ake


Ok, all of context is above.

I think you are a bigot, and your language bears that out.
Saying things like "these unfortunate people" about many homosexuals and lesbians, and that they are "battling their own psychological problems" along with considering these folks as having a "condition" as if it's an illness of some kind, all reflect your bias.

I was simply overwhelmed when I read what you wrote first time around. And in the re-reading, I find it just as difficult to accept.

But you're allowed your opinions. I do understand it's your own "condition" you're dealing with.

-e

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Susan of DT
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM

(dick greenhaus)
Listen up, y'all.
Adoption has NOTHING to do with gay marriage. Completely different set of rules, and having 2 gays marry is no guarantee that they'll be able to adopt.

Second, a valid reason for gays to marry is to achieve equality under the law--taxation, inheritence and insurance.

Third, What the hell does Scripture have to do with the laws of the US?
We may trust in God, but I suspect She's not very trustworthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Blackcatter
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:00 PM

Ake,

I read you whole post. You are ignorant and close-minded.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:06 PM

Just sterilise them all and be done with it!

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:11 PM

Elenpolly...My condition, is the condition of the vast majority of the humans on this planet, and I see no need to defend it to you.
Your attitude is exactly the one which I mentioned in my post.   No objective discussion, just scream shout and smear .

If you really knew anything about me in real life,you would understand that there are few people less bigoted about human nature.

I have friends who are homosexual, who quietly struggle through life with a heavy burden,I admire them.

It is the vociferous"gay culture",that I abhor.
They are the bigots...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:14 PM

Hey now ... ake is entitled to an opinion without the personal insults, surely? Disagree with his viewpoint if you will, but stifling his voice is unjust.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:17 PM

I am sure he likes to stifle it with a big sausage in his maw.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:21 PM

ellenpoly, are you a dike?

Just curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:23 PM

Thanks BPL...Personal abuse is always a sure sign of a weak argument.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Peace
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:29 PM

Martin,

That's a non sequitar. I ain't black and I supported black rights. I ain't Jewish and I support Jewish rights. I ain't female and I support women's rights.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:50 PM

Ellen polly...your main objection to my post would seem to be the use of "condition" to describe homosexuality.

Alot of homosexuals whom I have known or observed have indeed suffered from a "condition" from childhood. In most cases caused by their parents relationship.
The most harmful to the child being an over dominant mother and weak father.

This " condition " is well document in medical publications.

If you find any other "bigotry" please allow me to respond...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 06:04 PM

Brucie

Isn't a sequitar one of those cool guitars those guys in Nashville played? Guys like Porter Waggoner and Hank Snow?

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 06:11 PM

I think some of you may be misinterpreting Akenaton's remarks. I believe what he is objecting to is the media and legal activities of a specific and very vociferous group of people who act as if they represent ALL gays when in fact they do not. Those people seek confrontation and controversy. So do their counterparts in the religious right who hate gays. What you have is two groups of fanatical and obsessed people polarized in extreme and opposite positions, and seeking conflict with one another...and the rest of the public (most of whom would just as soon live and let live) being held hostage in a sense and dragged into legal battles and political battles that are exaggerated and not very helpful if one wants to have a free and harmonious society.

Now, I have seen the same thing happen before around black/white issues, Native-American issues, Jewish/anti-semite issues, male/female issues, and a number of other issues.

It's extremism posturing as open-mindedness. It's fanaticism posturing as the search for equality. It's the desire for conflict and even the desire for martyrdom posturing as the search for freedom. And it's a pain in the neck for most of the people, most of the time.

I have never had a problem with gay people, but I don't exactly see why they must now have a "Gay Pride Week" in my little town. Why? Who else has a "Pride Week" around here? I don't have a burning desire to have some kind of "Pride Week" around any of my particular unique characteristics and choices in life...I just enjoy being who I am, that's all, and I think that a gay person who is comfortable in what he or she is would do the same.

What is this obsession about confronting every conceivable public thing that can be confronted? I think it's a sign of a psychological problem...one that has nothing whatsoever to do with being gay, but has a great deal to do with being a one-issue-obsessed person with a chip on his/her shoulder and a desire for attention.

If I was gay, I wouldn't get in everybody's face about it all the time...and I wouldn't hide it either. I'd just relax about it and be who I was and leave other people alone about it. And that is exactly what I would prefer the religious right to do as well...leave other people alone.

As for the marriage thing, as I said, I have no objection to adults marrying whomever they wish to marry. That's their business. I understand that there are financial and legal aspects to it, but I don't care too much about that either. As for health care...in a decent, modern society EVERYONE should be entitled to full health care at no charge as far as I'm concerned. That's socialized medicine.

Subject: RE: BS: Why you don't like gay marriage
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Aug 04 - 06:14 PM

Ah. . . Akenatan. . . another county heard from. So why is this one group not permitted to "vociferously" defend and define themselves after Western culture has asaulted and legislated against them since who knows when? The squeaking wheel rules, and they have plenty of company with other special interest groups in the news.

Martin Gibson, the term for a lesbian that you're using in a derogatory fashion is spelled "dyke." The word you used, "dike," generally has to do with geological formations or is a structure meant to hold back a substance, often water. When making bigotted remarks you will look a bit less ignorant if you spell the insult correctly.

SRS