Folk Club Manners

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 24 Nov 13 - 02:37 PM

Guest. I don't know where you got that from but I saw MacColl and Seeger perform in dozens of different venues on dozens of occasions.

I cannot remember either of them behaving in the elitist fashion you describe.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: IanC
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 04:58 AM

Sounds like the guy just had to rejoin his friends. Why put any other spin on it?

:-)

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 05:41 AM

"Re the mystery singer from Cornwall- Ewan MacColl used to do exactly the same thing- "
Never did - very seldom, if ever visited clubs casually - usually too busy - but would love to know where this particular legend came from - I'm collecting them with a view to compiling a book of them.
As much as I'd love a reference to MacColl borrowing a guitar, I'll pass on that one as his adventures as a guitarist are amply covered by Peggy in The Ewan MacColl Essential Songbook.
MacColl and Seeger made it a point to sit through all the performances wherever they were booked to play - not just out of good manners, which it is, but they were intensely interested in what was happening on the folk scene and constantly complained of ot having time to go and find out for themselves.
On the other hand, I was often an observer to visitors to MacColl's Singers Club turning up, requesting to sing and then returning to the bar, having asked the person on the door (usually my wife Pat) to "Give me a shout when it's my turn".
On the rare occasion their demand was complied with, they would go up, do their bit, then disappear into the night without bothering to find out what kind of club it was, leaving their name, "in case you want to book me".
Who cares who that mysterious singer was?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 06:02 AM

When McColl and Seeger played a folk club nearby in 1985 they had to be called upstairs for their two spots.

To be fair, before the first half spot, I was with them in the snug interviewing them, but were with their driver and others in their party sat having a soft drink before their second spot.

There were times when I was in a band where we may have been away from the concert room before coming on, but to be honest, it would have been that we hadn't seen each other for a few weeks and we needed to work out what we were going to do once up there. This was sometimes misconstrued. Sad because I always enjoyed the variety of floor turns before a paid guest.

These days, most "folk clubs" around are singarounds, and in open pubs. Fine, and I go to a few when time permits.   But I personally prefer the concert style in a function room.

I suppose it is the difference between performing and sharing songs. In the latter, it would be in my opinion very rude to ignore others, whereas the former allows for picking and choosing more.

How many of us have timed the downing of our pint to coincide with anticipating a person playing next who you reckon going to the bar is a better priority?

It's alright. I get angry when having to stand to let people get past five mins before the end of the football match too......

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 07:49 AM

"When McColl and Seeger played a folk club nearby in 1985 they had to be called upstairs for their two spots."
Interesting on two counts Musket.
For the reasons I said, MacColl usually insisted on staying through the whole proceedings of a club - his habit of remaining on stage during the interval was somewhat cattily described as "holding court"
He requested that members of the Critics Group followed the same practice and "let us know what's happening out there".
The fact of their having a driver also interests me as it was their practice to provide their own transport so as not to be tied down to leaving when their 'lift' did or of imposing on anybody to leave when they wished to.
One of the pleasures of their visits to Liverpool and Manchester was to get an eyeful of their beautiful old black French Citroen, complete with running boards.
It certainly wasn't because they were worried about the drink-drive laws - neither of them drank to excess while performing, Ewan usually confining himself to one pint throughout the evening
Peggy, on the other hand, was a fanatic about not drinking alchohol while singing because she insisted it ruined her singing voice.
I remember the hilarity on the night when the late Bruce Dunnet weaved his way through a crowded Singers Club, dubiously eyed her half full pint of water and asked, "Fid ye like me tae tap up yer glass o' gin there lassie?"
I would be very interested in the interview you recorded with them if it's still in existence Musket.
I'm still hoping to persuade Salford Working Class Library to add our collection of MacColl material to theirs in order to expand it into a full blown and accessible archive of his work in time for his 100th anniversary.
Still looking for a go-between in the UK if anybody is interested.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 08:00 AM

I get angry when having to stand to let people get past five mins before the end of the football match too......

See it as an opportunity. Surely people-watching has got to be better than watching t'Owls... :-)

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 03:19 PM

MacColl did a lot of good things & wrote some tremendous songs & for the most part I agreed with his politics, but he was very opinionated & his treatment of ordinary 60s folkies left a lot to be desired.. he might have been a champion of the 'People' (like Ho Chi Minh) but a man of the people he certainly was not- 'elitist' sounds a fair description to me

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,musket
Date: 25 Nov 13 - 05:08 PM

I didn't set out to have a pop. This was towards the end of his time and he wasn't too well that night. During the interview he did speak of people seeing him in his classic pose of sitting the wrong way round in a chair holding fort. It does occur that if he were well enough he may have approached the evening differently. Peggy certainly performed a few more than normal on her own that night.

I have been on the receiving end of his sharp tongue mind. I did think it funny that he said singers should sing songs indigenous to them, then sang Scottish ballads in that odd yet nice affected Scottish accent that he picked up from school in er.. Salford. In the meantime he asked me why a Derbyshire lad living in Nottinghamshire would wish to sing a Somerset song.

Probably didn't occur to the old bugger that I liked it so wished to share it. ... or that as a miner still at the time, I wouldn't sing a mining song for all the beer in the cellar. Geography teachers and social workers were far better at singing of how hard it is downtthe pit than I could ever be. They could keep a straight face for starters. ..




I can hear you Mr Shaw, ,blaspheming again. We may have to set up a court with a gnome looking judge to sort out our differences if we are to con the world into buying into our new religion (see BS threads for anyone else reading this and scratching their head or arse.)

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 26 Nov 13 - 05:24 AM

Guest. "'elitist' sounds a fair description to me".

I'm not sure whether you're the same 'Guest' who accused MacColl of sitting outside folk clubs until he was due to go on, or whether your comment about elitism refers to my refutation of that accusation. If not, then my apologies.

However, my use of the term elitist referred solely to this alleged habit. I was not referring to his attitude towards other singers, audiences etc. That is a completely different argument.

Please do not confuse the two. If indeed you have.

BTW. It would be extremely helpful if you identified yourself.