BS: Is Google getting political ?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:20 PM

CS.........In the sixties there was in the US what became known as "The Movement." It had no one leader or no single goal and in fact wasn't really anything besides a concept. What it included were the numerous groups working toward Civil Rights from the NAACP to The Panthers to the Muslims and probably 2 dozen groups in between. There were also the various pacifist groups and of course the anti-war folks, not all pacifists by any means. Then there were the "fuck the government" people who had their own groups like the SDS along with followers from others like Vets against the War or something else. In this mix there was also quite a few anti-nuke people ranging from banning nuclear energy to just banning the bomb. Hope that helps CS!

NOW........Moving On................

So yeah......There were plenty of folks available for protests and everything else including building takeovers and bombings. While none of the objectives of these many groups were completely successful, almost all of them had some degree of success...................and I'd bet that at least 90% of the folks affiliated with "The Movement" owned/wore a Peace symbol. I'd also bet that very few knew the actual origins but that didn't keep it from having a serious meaning to many.

The line about "remembering the 60's means you weren't there" kinda' pisses me off as well. For what they believed when they often wore/showed that Peace sign, some were beaten or otherwise injured, others went to jail, some left the country, many were alienated from family and former friends, and some of them were killed. You don't forget things like that even if we were high, drunk, stoned. or otherwise goofed up. Now I'm 60 and I hear that since we didn't all know the "original" meaning we are simply Yankee Doodle noodles...............as MtheGM says.

If you agree with M on that one then you need to write to Joe Offer RIGHT NOW and tell them the mean Ol' Spaw has personally attacked you when I say, I am amazed you can look so far down your nose when your head is buried so deep in your fuckin' ass!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:59 PM

Wooo Spaw - so YOU were PeterC then!

Lighten up man, I don't think anyone was doing anything than remembering..

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:05 PM

Anyway's it's Xmas I'm blasted, I'm not up for a fight. And especially not about this shit!

So hugs and strictly non-political 'peace' stuff, till another day folks.. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:11 PM

SORRY I'm being 'Arsey' as they say in the UK, but I'm having a laff - bit drunk and stuff, but I get the point. Lot's of folks used the sign, it meant slightly different things to different people. A pity as far as I'm concerned, but not for others.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:15 PM

Take a few drinks for me CS.......Sometimes I wish I still could........Have a great night and a pleasant hangover.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:23 PM

Catspaw - you don't mean you put these posts of yours up while you are sober?

How pathetic!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:25 PM

"The line about "remembering the 60's means you weren't there" kinda' pisses me off as well."

Well I wasn't there in the sixties at all. I was a child in the Eighties, and not a protester of course but a *child* for whom those who DID protest were protesting FOR. And as a child of the Eighties, I've always been aware that those women were fighting for ME. That's something I still hold dear, and I'm proud to do so too.

". Now I'm 60 and I hear that since we didn't all know the "original" meaning we are simply Yankee Doodle noodles...............as MtheGM says."

Well yeah - that comment's out of order.
Do I have to explicitly state "I don't personally agree with that thing that he just said", just because we were born on the same land-mass? I'm not my brothers keeper and all that!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 27 Dec 09 - 06:29 PM

Don't worry folks, it's 11:30pm - so I'll be off to bed err in about twenty minutes ... sh ;-)

I did get some lovely cherry brandy off my step-mum-ish tho'

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:14 AM

". Now I'm 60 and I hear that since we didn't all know the "original" meaning we are simply Yankee Doodle noodles...............as MtheGM says."
Well yeah - that comment's out of order. ===

It would have been, Crow Sister - if it had been what I said — which, if you look back, you will find it wasn't quite: quoted 'out of context', as they say; & by whom but that threescore·but·still·stuck·in·early·adolsescent·modes·of·thought·&·expression Catspaw, who hasn't, it appears, even the excuse of alcohol for his pitiful foul-mouthed tirades. I really think you should consider more deeply before paying much mind to what that walking disgrace to this respectable forum might choose to [mis]quote.

Happy New Year, Sister [even if you don't want to be my keeper] -

Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:31 AM

===In the US, at least, "queer" is a perfectly acceptable, even preferred, term of reference for many homosexuals, both male and female. It was once considered highly insultive, but the homosexual community seems to have adopted it as a way of stripping it of its power. It's members of the straight community who think "queer" is an insult while "gay" is not.===

Very interesting and informative point, for which many thanks, BWL. Perhaps a comparison with groups with names like "Niggaz With Attitude" might not be unacceptable or irrelevant?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Smedley
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 06:44 AM

That's about right, M.

But as with that comparison, it matters a great deal *who* is using the term

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Bainbo
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 12:13 PM

Google is a private enterprise and is as entitled as anyone to have, and to express, a point of view, if it wants. If you don't like it, use another search engine.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 12:54 PM

Ask someone from China if google is political.

Google was instrumental in providing information to the Chinese goverment who then imprisoned numerous people for thier ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,Ebbie, away from home, house/dog sitting
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 01:28 PM

And in.

MtheGM, your opinion of Spaw's character and abilities of expression is of no consequence to me. I ignore some of his writing - you could do the same - because of the pearls to be discovered in the rest of his writing. His character is something I aspire to.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 01:48 PM

I think not, Ebbie. I know his sort — he deludes himself he is a 'character', which is supposed to give him licence for all sorts of unmannerliness which we are all supposed to meet with a merry tee·he·hee or we shall reveal ourselves as lacking in that indispensable attribute, a sense of humour. Well, I couldn't give a gnat's piss if Spaw thinks I have a sense of humour or not: when it comes to people who insult one and then say in a pained tone, "Oh, can't you take a joke then?", my answer is invariably, "No, I have had a SOHectomy when it comes to your sort, so be off with you, you infantile idiot."

Such SOH as I possess is reserved for what I find funny, not what some bully imagines I ought to because he is ill-bred and lacking in any sort of self-control or social sense.

I had thought better of you than to aspire to such self-regarding fatuousness.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,Ebbie, away from home, house/dog sitting
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 01:58 PM

Michael, Spaw doesn't need- and I'm sure, doesn't want defense from me. Let me just add that you are looking at him in a one-dimensional way.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:22 PM

No, Ebbie, I'm sorry, but I don't for a second see why I should be expected to 'make allowances' for what is simply ('one-dimensionally', if you choose to regard it so)ill-disguised, aggressive, bullying, foulmouthed ill-breeding, however multidimensional its perpetrator may aspire to be thought. That is the 'dimension' he has elected to present to my regard, so he will have to live with the consequences [not that I imagine he gives any more flying gnats'·pisses for my regard than I do for his, a consideration which occasions me not the remotest distress whatsoever]. Life is too short [especially at my time of it when there can't be that much of it to look forward to, however you may slice it] to be the slightest bit tolerant of, or amused by, such antics. Sorry.

Perhaps, at that, you are looking at me a bit one-dimensionally in this particular regard?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:23 PM

I don't whether this is another US/UK divide or a generational thing, but this thread is the first time I (a 50-something Brit) have seen this logo described as a "peace symbol". If I were asked to describe a "peace symbol" my first thoughts would be a dove or olive branch - certainly not this. For me this symbol is indelibly associated with CND, which was undoubtedly a political movement.

CND, in the eyes of its opponents, was at best naive in hoping that unilateral disarmament would remove the nuclear threat, and at worst accused of wanting to leave the country open to Soviet invasion. This was not some wishy-washy hippy notion of peace, but a serious political movement which aroused strong opinions on both sides.

Whilst the logo has apparently taken on a new meaning to many, it's original meaning is still widely known, certainly here in the UK. Like it or not, it still has political overtones.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Ed T
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 02:33 PM

An interesting article on the Sonaran Desert:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091216144145.htm

Scientists Map Speed of Climate Change for Different Ecosystems:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091223133337.htm

Global Warming Likely to Be Amplified by Slow Changes to Earth Systems, Geologists Say
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091220143921.htm

From The German Advisory Council on Global Change:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091121093521.htm

Some Dutch research:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091220174725.htm


New tools from Europe:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/12/091220175504.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 03:21 PM

...walking disgrace to this respectable forum...

Haven't laughed so hard in ages!

For some useful research on what it was like in the 60s, over here where we were just "wishy-washy hippies," I would refer you all to THIS THREAD. If you read no other postings, be sure to read the ones of Big Mick and Catspaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 03:32 PM

Sorry, EdT, but what is your point? The fact that there are these different sites on the WWW doesn't seem to me to have anything to do with whether or not Google is taking any political stance.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 03:58 PM

I think maybe Ed posted in the wrong thread.

Some information in Wikipedia.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 04:00 PM

Thank you, Katlaughing. That was an interesting thread. It leaves me exercised as to why, and how, the articulate, intelligent, cogent Catspaw of nearly 10 years ago has opted to regress into the 60-year-old foulmouthed adolesecent name-caller of today, who asserts [in italics yet, but I suspect that was becoz he wasn't quite in control of the Mudcat http or whatever it's called] that I must have my head buried in my fucking arse if I don't perceive everything from the perspective of over-here precisely as he does from that of over-there.

Thank you at least, for not, this time round, yourself denouncing what I said as 'fucking crap'. Mind how you go tho: I haven't forgotten you were one of those who once intervened in o·so·lady·laike offended tones in a quarrel I was having on here with a fellow-countryman who fully appreciated the force of the obloquy I chose to apply, which you greatly over-interpreted from a blinkered national perspective.

Happy New Year - Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: pdq
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 04:19 PM

"[Al] Gore has served as a senior adviser to Mountain View, California-based Google since February 2001, shortly after leaving public office. Google spokesman Jon Murchinson said in an e-mail: 'We have not provided comment on if or how we compensate Mr. Gore in his role as an advisor to Google.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 04:42 PM

Ah, nothing like a smarmy, smug-type to give them all a bad name. UKers mind how he goes. We might paint you all with the same broad brush he applies to us!**BSEG**

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 04:48 PM

I think he's trying too hard to piss people off, kat. Something wrong with that...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,Ebbie, away from home, house/dog sitting
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 05:23 PM

I'd like to add, Michael, in response to your anguished query as to how this 60 year old man could have slipped so badly from what he was capable of writing 10 years ago: He hasn't changed

Human beings are complex. Spaw may reveal his complexity a bit more readily than we - or you choose to or are comfortable with. I suspect that a lot of it is attributable to his lack of fear.

Incidentally, I think you'll find that none of the long time Mudcatters are going to side with you in your opinion or your attack. We know our Spaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 05:35 PM

To me the sixties movement was the civil rights movement which inspired the sexual equality or femenist movement. The assasination of all the greatest leftist leaders was the unsaid motivation to stand up and make an individaul difference. The anti war movement got the remaining people who were not marching up on their feet.

The icing on this Nexus of events cake, was the drug "movement".
Any real hippie knows the phrase "tune in , turn on and drop out".
Some did one, others did two but I did all three. I no longer turn on but support the freedom of others who do. Still I wouldn't want a dime going to some murderous cartel.

If anyone wants to have a pissing contest, I suppose we could decide who is the best hippie. I could tell you that those who are hippies, have harmed LESS/FEWER lands, waters, people and animals than those who are not hippies.

The biggest lie about hippies is that they are slakers. I have known high power attoneys who are hippies. The financiers who destroyed the world for the next several generations are those who are definately not hippies.

Yeah the sixties and early seventies had hundreds of people's front organizations. Some of them were bizarre, some religiously bizarre but I suppose human nature has always been a messey affair.

Today it is said we should fear that we are so much alike than different. My artificial yet true seperation of human race into two groups is the linear and non linear. (the literalists vs the metaphorists) seldom will the twain ever meet.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 06:15 PM

The Wikipedia link Jeri posted explains how the symbol came to be adopted in the US. That doesn't negate the fact that in the UK, for older generations at least, the sign has other, overtly political, connotations.

Whilst I am sure that CND believed they were campaigning for peace, there was an alternative view that their demand for unilateral nuclear disarmament could have opened the way to a non-nuclear war. I don't want to get into a debate over the rights and wrongs of either argument, simply to explain that "peace" and "CND" are not necessarily synonymous.

If you're going to use it as a peace symbol, which I am sure is how Google intended it, you also need be aware that it does have other meanings. It is not unambiguous.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 07:53 PM

Yeah, I think so too, Jeri...almost as if he's been here before.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 09:46 PM

Incidentally, I think you'll find that none of the long time Mudcatters are going to side with you in your opinion or your attack. We know our Spaw.===

Not so, Ebbie — have had some PM response in my support. I am not the only one he appears to irritate with his 'Teehee·I·am·such·a·character!' get-out from the norms of acceptable civilised social intercourse. So carry on 'knowing' him, & for my part you are welcome to him & can keep him.


Spaw: address no more remarks to me, please, young man, as I give notice I shan't even take trouble to read them — & not becoz my head is in an unmentionable situation either, smartarse...

Kat & Jeri — who is the "he" ref'd to in your last exchange; not clear if you mean Spaw or me? Not that I am particularly bothered by opinions of either of you, who appear, unlike Ebbie, to wish to conduct this converstn in abusive, rather than rational terms.

I am getting v bored with this thread [tho Howard's contribtns have of course given fresh ❤ to the over·here·&·know·what's·what contingent]. Might not even bother to log on to it again. However, this is not one of those I'm·outa·here statements that some people are always making & never keeping to.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 11:04 PM

If I had better typing skills and 2 or 3 days, I'd try to mediate this jousting match between Michael & Ebbie and Catspaw and katlaughing..and Jeri....(having met all EXCEPT Michael & katlaughing in person)... but since I don't have time or typing skills, I'll just say that everything I know tells me that they are ALL excellent, concerned, intelligent folk who happen to be different and have different ways of expressing things.

In my just over 13 years here, this is one of the stranger bits of back & forth I have read. ....and I probably shouldn't even say this much, but hey... I'm strange also!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 11:49 PM

Yeah ya' are Bill........and we're all thankful for it!

I seem to have done a fine job of getting under MGM's skin.....or on it ......or something.........LOL......

Howard phrased it correctly. Almost everyone gladly admitted that the CND symbol is viewed today in the UK far differently than it is here in the States. Has it become watered down and diluted? Yes it has and it simply signifies "Peace" to most of the world, not just the USA.......Read the CND site.   Google may have erred in not knowing the "Peace Sign" meant something different and more political in the UK but I seriously doubt they meant any offense. It once had some very strong political overtones here as well but over time it has become just a friendly and International way of hoping for peace.

As for me......why of course I'm a bit of the bully and a bit of the egotist and often arrogant as well......but I try not to let it bother me..........LOL..........Hell, we have a ton of members who are pretty much the same.............If it bothers you, well, then .......................well, I guess it bothers you. Maybe we can get you a little drum!

Going back to the first sentence I wrote on this thread............Only at the 'Cat would we have a fight over a Peace sign.....or whatever ta' hell it is................LOL..........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:37 AM

To correct a previous error, as my watchword is ever "ACCURACY MATTERS".

I had misremembered about semaphore, which has not after all changed since I learned it at age 12, 65 years ago. The symbol reads simply, in semaphore, ND, for 'Nuclear Disarmament' - the fact of its representing a 'Campaign' for this being presumably implied, or taken as read, by the originators. Both Peter Cadogan and George Parker are dead so I can no longer ask them.

I am indebted to Jeri for the Wiki link which reminded me of this.

Did after all cast an eye over Spaw's last - hard to avoid one's eye flickering. He is welcome to such petty pathetic enjoyment as he may have found 'under my skin' - little things, as they do say, please little minds. A proverbial saying here. Do you have it over there also, USAians? One never knows nowdays.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:38 AM

Oh, sorry - nearly forgot -

LoL !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 06:36 AM

The only thing that genuinely annoyed me about this thread, was the immediate barrage of "What a lot of shit" "Fucking crap" or whatever, to the notion of the possibility of said logo having any political connotations.

That kind of group heckling stifles open discussions (maybe deliberately?), and I think in this instance it irked some people who knew more intimately the history and meaning of the sign - a history which has very definitely been filled with political controversy up until relatively recently.

If folks want to squabble and name-call on a *One to One* basis however, that's a different matter! I don't personally give a flying one, and would never wish to spoil the fun or get prissy and tut-tutty about it! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 06:53 AM

"Spaw may reveal his complexity a bit more readily than we - or you choose to or are comfortable with. I suspect that a lot of it is attributable to his lack of fear."

WTF! What a lotta pseudo-psych tosh, I'm laffing myself silly!
"lack of fear"? Fear of what?
Someone typing back "fuck off you nob-end" or some other really scary written stuff on an internet forum? LOL! "Lack of fear" Oh my..

"Incidentally, I think you'll find that none of the long time Mudcatters are going to side with you in your opinion or your attack. We know our Spaw."

That kinda cliquery sucks the big high hard one.

Anyway - have fun folks!
No side-taking here, Peace 'n' shit ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:34 AM

Crow Sister, you would do well to read some old threads before you get so shirty about someone you don't know.

If anyone wants to see a little guy actually doing the semi-fore CLICK HERE.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,ebbie, away from home, house/dog sitting
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 11:42 AM

Well, since I am still here, still housesitting due to dense fog that prevents planes from getting into town, I'll try once more.

Crow Sister- I've always liked ravens better, by the by - if you'd like to pick a fight I am not available, but I will elucidate some of my "psychobabble". By 'lack of fear' I was referring to the fact that the man has been so close to death so many times there's not a whole lot that anyone can do to scare him At least, that is how I read him.

Some day I will have to go back - on my own computer, rather than on this unfamiliar laptop- and see where it all went wrong, From memory I'd say that USAians were genuinely surprised at the vehemence of some posters as to the misuse of the CND symbol. I personally was so far from understanding that I wasn't sure on which side of the CND fight they were on.

For that matter, I'm still not quite sure. Are you/Were you all on the same side?

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 12:07 PM

"shirty about someone you don't know."

Shirty about whom Kat? I was responding to Ebbie's post there.
I'm not into 'taking sides' here.

As far as I'm concerned 'Spaw can rip the piss outa whomever he pleases, and so can Michael too! They're both big boys now - they can work it out between themselves. Pistolas at dawn even, if they want ;-)

I just don't dig the whole clique preferential treatment thing Ebbie was aiming at because "Our Spaw" is "complicated" so that makes swearing at me fine by all the "long-term Mudcatter's" (who are clearly by implication, the only people who's feelings really matter).
'
Don't get me wrong - I'm not bitching at 'Spaw AT ALL, he's cool by me, as is Michael too. But we're ALL complicated Kat, we all have a story - and that story can't always be found on a magic thread search. So, sometimes folks get pissed off and rant at each other, no big deal, shit happens.

But do I really hate that cliquey stuff where folks rally round and 'support' someone else just because they're in the Scooby Gang - because frankly I'm quite sure Spaw can and does bat for himself perfectly well without it.

But then I'm an inveterate outsider, never belonged to any long-term group - always wandered off before I belonged anywhere.
Mudcat will inevitably be the same...

Hey, so psych me ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 12:23 PM

Ebbie - it didn't matter which side of the CND fight we were on - as I stated above, my position as to the matter changed — it was the fact of recognising it as, if not exactly a fight, then as a POLITICAL issue in which views were polarised, that is the point at issue. That symbol represented a particular, recognisable, entrenched political position. It was not the fact of having not realised that, but the attitude of maintaining that this was just being picky and how could 'most people' {Jeri} be expected to know?; and that it was just a 'load of fucking crap' {the fragrant katlaughing} that got up the noses of Murray and Howard & me - if not the entire 50,000,000 population of these islands as I once [perhaps just an itsy-bitsy· itty-bitty·teensy-weensy bit hyperbolically] claimed.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: GUEST,Ebbie, away from home, house/dog sitting
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 02:18 PM

Perhaps I should clarify my remark about "long term Mudcatter" and "our" Spaw. I, of course, was speaking to MtheGM, who as a newbie to the BS section could not be presumed familiar with "our" long term Mudcat members.

As has often - VERY often - been stated, there is no cliquey segment on the cat, or if there is, I certainly don't know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 04:29 PM

The Google illustration is simply that of an innocent stack of greeting cards--the peace sign having now become a not infrequent feature thereon--evidence of which is submitted for your consideration here: A Variety of "Peace" related Christmas Cards

The truly sad and pathetic thing here is that such a mild irrelevancy should have torn our gentle community on the one day of the year set aside to celebrate peace and hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 04:41 PM

"The truly sad and pathetic thing here is that such a mild irrelevancy should have torn our gentle community on the one day of the year set aside to celebrate peace and hope."


Oh Poo Hoo to you! I thought the whole frecking point of this thread was that the CND sign was initially a dynamic controversial political image. But! "Peace" adopted it, how... nice of Peace. So the CND sign err became "fun" and people thought it'd be way cool to put it on T. Shirts and stuff.. and errr...

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 04:55 PM

Absolutely nothing will stop those who want to be pissed off from being pissed off.

I'll talk to people up until I can see that it's clearly a waste of my time, because they don't want to find understanding and common ground, but find enemies.

As they say elsewhere on the internet, *PLONK*

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:14 PM

The point I was making was kinda there was no fight before folks decided there was a fight.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:21 PM

I tried, folks, I really did try, to wade through this shit. Got far enough that I knew I wasn't going to invest anymore time. A couple of observations.

First, any soul, on any continent, that was alive and old enough to care about the news during the Vietnam/birth of the Hippies/Age of Aquarius, knows damn full well that the it became the universal "peace" sign. Any attempt, IMO, to act otherwise is disengenuous. I do appreciate learning about the CND connection. I was not aware of it, and it lends an explanation as to where it came from.

Second, MtheGM's comment:

I can only say that, if you over there persist in regarding this as just a symbol without known origin or meaning or arrière-pensée intent, then you wilfully reveal yourselves as nothing but a bunch of innocent Yankee·Doodle noodles after all.

Macaroni! - Michael

demonstrates, once again, how some folks over there really just love trying to lord it over us "colonials" as to their feelings of some sort of intellectual superiority. I wonder where they were during the discussion of the Rebel flag and how it evokes abhorence with regard to racism. Mike seems to think that our not getting what the peace sign meant to folks in Europe shows we are just Yankee Doodle noodles. Could I say the same for the English that think the "stars and bars" are nothing more than a symbol for hooligans?

As has been said before, only on Mudcat would we argue about this type of thing.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:28 PM

Ebbie affectionatly says "we know our Spaw".
Like knowing Shakespeare, one must know their Spaw.
Sometimes I wake up at 3 Am is if a noise had startled me, only to find that I am left wondering what Emmanual Kant would think of Spaw.
I really Kant say for sure, but I respect and read them both. I have even seen their photos.

Spaw has a central persona or at least seems to project one voice.
In contrast I have been the cartoonist, the therapist, the alarmist (but a correct one), the satirist, joker, political hack and several other personae that only serves to create a confused identity which may be telling in itself. Besides the closest I got to a getaway was to start out and turn around.

Ebbie has it right. Know thy Spaw as yourself. no thats not it... OH "We know our Spaw".
You know, thats a damn nice thing to say. The measure of a man is in his friends, as Charles Dickens said.

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 05:59 PM

I don't think that Murray intended for his honest inquiry to turn into an internet international slugfest, and his question had a simple and clear answer, save the fact that Michael, for reasons of his own, chose to take the gratuitous stab that Mick has cited above.

The fact is, many years ago, I had one of those Nuclear Disarmament buttons snugly and smugly pinned to my coat, ready and willing to go into a "Ban the Bomb" diatribe for whosoever made the mistake of asking about it--but these days, you can buy t-shirts and necklaces with the "Peace Sign" on them at Target, and it is all nostalgia, rather than any sort of political or even "Peace" statement. And the UK has more like 60,000,000 people-as
the poet said, "That was then, this is now."

Subject: RE: BS: Is Google getting political ?
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Dec 09 - 06:12 PM

Why are you here?

It has to be the same reason why most people are here. For the luckiest people they are here because of the friends they care about and the sense of a community that honestly cares about them.

For the less fortunate they are here for the virtual sense of community and the belief that people may care about them.

It's not just about the trivia or the music. It's about your wife dieing or a child that gets hurt or a husband that is murdered by an unknown assailant or your home reduced to cinders. It's about real life and death in your family as well as the world at large.

This community, be it real or virtual to you, becomes something more over time and can disappoint to a degree that is disproportionate to the actual facts because the community you emotionally rely on, might sometimes spurn or condemn you.

Sometimes you can feel how stupid "they" are or be confounded by the degree of sophistication, intelligence and knowledge of a certain subject.

Being so invested in the support of a caring community that wanes and ebbs like the tide is not without its costs, but overall it is beneficial.

It's like the end of Annie Hall when Woody explains that his brother goes to a psychiatrist because he believes he has an imaginary chicken. The Dr. asks why the whole family indulges in pretending there is this imaginary chicken, and Woody says "because we need the eggs".


For myself I know this to be true. I can go 5 years without a PM which is less than half the time I have been posting. I know my spontaneous dyslexic writing looks to be a shambles, while the ideas are sound the intent is often ignored or critizied at best.
But I know I need the eggs so I try to do better orjust storm off for awhile.

So whether you have egg on your face or you are told to go suck an egg, we all need the eggs.

Happy New Year Joe,
Don H