BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:44 PM

RUTH SMEETH'S EMPLOYER

Once again an accusation of antisemitism is linked directly back to Israel - this time via a paid employee
Incidentally, despite the fact that the language reported by Smeeth in Hansard was both ill-mannered and unacceptable (if her description s true) it attacks her as a supporter of "Zionism" not for being a Jew, therefore it doesn't fit any definition of Antisemitism I am aware of
Zionism is a political movement - not a religion, not a culture, not a race - a political movement

This leaves the crucial question still unanswered - WHAT IS THIS ANTISEMITISM LABOUR IS BEING ACCUSED OF?

Al
If you really do reduce what his happening in The Middle East to "the Jews and the Arabs will be merrily kicking each other up the arse " I seriously suggest you take a look at what is happening there
Might I suggest something neutral like Amnesty International ot Human Rights Watch or The United Nations or ot Medicines Sans Frontires reports
YOUR STARTER FOR TEN
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 02:56 PM

This leaves the crucial question still unanswered - WHAT IS THIS ANTISEMITISM LABOUR IS BEING ACCUSED OF?


They are charges of intimidation and abuse, and of racist comments, and they come from Jews and some non-Jews within the party, mostly MPs.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 03:00 PM

Which in no way answers Jim's question.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 05:27 PM

why doesn't it answer Jim's question?

If its going on - it needs to stop. I don't know a lot of jews, but those I do know seem to think theres some substance to the complaints. You just don't like the answer.

You're right Jim. I haven't been to Israel, or Palestine. I don't know what's going on. But I do know that for many years, there has not been this contentious anti Israel stuff arriving in my mail box.

The number of people who questioned Israel's motives and actions - you could count on one hand......er Vanessa Redgrave, David Mellor....and...

And now suddenly its the cassus belli in the Labour Party. Its the reason we're throwing away the next election. And I say to you, the situation in the middle east is ongoing and its not a good enough to hand the country to the tories.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 05:52 PM

If you honestly think that that's an answer and not just Keith doing his routine repetitive formulaic burbling, then you are easily satisfied. The question is simply not addressed. Down the years in these threads, every single specific accusation of supposed antisemitic remarks within Labour has been addressed in detail and soundly refuted. Perhaps you haven't had the energy to follow the threads. I wouldn't blame you. Yes it's very energy-sapping. But, as far as the electorate is concerned, this issue is a fart in the wind compared to Labour's paralysis over brexit. That's where we are severely letting the Tories off the hook.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 07:30 PM

"They are charges of intimidation and abuse, and of racist comments,"
What are they Keith
You say "racist" but your friend Bobad stridently denies that the Jews are a race
Insi#ults aren't antisemitic unless they are specified as being so - can you tell us what these antisemitic insults are
What is the intimidation - are Labour Party members threateni#ning #to hang all the Jews in Parliament ?
Same with abuse - do you have any examples of Antisemitic abuse ?
Iaains link showed antipathy towards the Zionists who, it has been shown, are interfering in British politics - Iain's linking an employee of the Israeli Government provided proof, as if any were needed, that there is a direct link between these accusations of antisemitism and the Israeli multi-million anti-BDS campaign (for which am very grateful - thank you Iains)   

So what do we have - the Israe;li government attempting to smear a Labour Party Leader and an ongoing battle bring waged within the Labour Party to rid itself of a principled Socialist leader
Do you not think that's understandable grounds for abuse
As for intimidation - have you ever seen Parliamentary Whips dragging reluctant MPs through the Lobby to vote on unpopular issue?
Thry this for size, blue eyes!
THE KILLING FIELDS of WESTMINSTER

I'm afraid you are going to have to do better than a few vague accusations Keith

Are you really going along with this Tory shit Al - shame on you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 08:04 PM

Just to clarify
I and I doubt anybody here, have no argument whatever with the probability that there are Jew Haters in the Labour Party, and among the Tories and Lib Dems...
Anti semitism is the oldest and most persistent form of cultural hatred on this Planet
Labour, a party with a history of anti racism and anti prejudice, created largely by refugee Jews, is less likely tto have a problem than any other Party
The Tory Party brushes such problems under the carpet - several years ago it was accused of having an Islamophobic probem
In contrast to Corbyn, who acted immediately, the Tories have done NOTHING

The Accusers here -
Keith - a Tory who says he will only vote Labour again if the supporters of Criminal Tony Blair take charge
Iains - an extremist right winger who posted his support for extremist Islamophobe Rommy Robinson and gloatingly drew attention to the petition insisting that Robinson not be jailed for Islamophobic hate-campaigning
Bobad - a declare hater of all things Muslims who onece filled this forum with hate postings from some of the most extreme racist and Islamophobic hate sites on the web, attempting to prove that the Muslim people have been a hate-filled religion since Biblical Times

Now - were I a self-respecting Jew, would I want any of these people to speak on my behalf (rhetorical question, of course)
The fact that none of these people are not prepared to acknowledge that there is a world-wide problem of antisemitism and insist that it only exists within the Labour Party in the form of "insulting and intimidation" in a clear indication (to me at least) exactly where the welfare of the Jewish people stand in their particular books

Crying 'wolf' over a non proven and probably non-existent "Antisemitism Problem" is only going to help the rise of antisemitism - immaterial anyway - their aim is to support the bringing down of the Labour Party - The Jewish People are just collateral damage as far as they are concerned
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 08:05 PM

I'm going along with some Jewish friends, lifelong Labour supporters and socialists, fellow musicians as it happens.

They deserve better than your distrust.

Like I say I don't understand what the fuck is going on. But I do know the situation in Palestine is not a good enough reason to alienate sections of our supporters

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 08:13 PM

What distrust?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Sep 18 - 09:34 PM

Jim Carroll:
The issues regarding Mr. Corbyn so far as I've seen involve direct actions and recordings and meetings taken with the said Mr. Corbyn. Picking out a single person and dumping on them seems to be an act
of . . . scapegoating.
And Diversion.
Standard tactics for someone with an ethnic axe to grind.

Consider the article to which I linked early on in this thread:

"Mr. Corbyn has described the constitutionally genocidal Hamas as his “friends.” He’s appeared on stage with inveterate anti-Semites. He’s defended a mural that depicted hooknosed bankers running the world. He’s attended a wreath-laying ceremony that celebrated the perpetrators of the Munich Olympics massacre.
All of this was variously offensive, tone-deaf, ignorant or, at times, insidious. But none of these scandals quite clinched it for me. The associations were often tangential. And, I reasoned, there was the possibility of confusion: Mr. Corbyn is not exactly known for his sharp wits.
Then, last Thursday, The Daily Mail released a video of Mr. Corbyn speaking at a 2013 conference in London about Britain’s legacy in Palestine. The conference was promoted by the Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas. Other speakers included Stephen Sizer, who has appeared alongside Holocaust deniers at a conference in Iran. So far, so familiar."
It has more to say from there, from the author's point of view
And then you go and make personal observations of those who disagree with you. Don't make me re-think my spittle comments! Keep your screen clear and attempt to do the same with your mind.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 02:32 AM

As soon as that article says "constitutionally genocidal", the author has lost it. The Hamas charter does not call for genocide.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 03:29 AM

well theres the implication that they are part of a tory plot.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 03:31 AM

which i think is unlikely.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 03:44 AM

And there are some here still in denial. Never mind, instead of accepting the charges, resolving the situation and moving on, there are a minority (well represented on this forum) who refuse to let the matter die down and refuse to acknowledge the charges.
   I must congratulate you for your valiant efforts that ensure the Labour party under Corbyn will never take power.

Corbyn and co, the dream team of catastrophe! Luvvin it!

You have allowed this festering soret to totally overshadow and obliterate any concerted action on Brexit.

Those denying labour's problems here are many of those same people refusing to accept the referendum results on Brexit, yet show a total inability to see how one impacts the other.
I find it hilarious. Pray continue the good work!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 03:52 AM

Steve,
. It's more about a determined effort to unseat Corbyn. The Blairites want their party back and they'll stop at nothing to get it,

Your ludicrous claim that it is just Corbyn's enemies fabricating all this is risible.
Corbyn himself is admits it!

"I acknowledge there is a real problem of anti-Semitism that Labour is working to overcome."

"I'm sorry for the hurt that has been caused to many Jewish people."

"Anyone who denies that this has surfaced within our Party is clearly actually wrong and contributing to the problem."

That last quote applies to all of your group.
His words prove that over the years we have discussed this, you were wrong and I was right all along.

Stop the denial and pretence. You have no case.
Corbyn has smashed it.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 03:54 AM

Is that the same Labour party and leadership that only last year wiped out the Tory majority?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 03:55 AM

Dave!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 04:06 AM

The Times today:
"The auditions are about to start for the man or woman who can save the Labour Party. The saviour sought will need an appeal that extends beyond the narrow tribe gathered at the conference. He or she will have to identify and embody a new start, to allow the party to leave its current travails behind. The aching for direction, not offered by the stuttering incumbent, is palpable; senior people in the Labour Party long for leadership in private."

Telling it like it is!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 04:27 AM

"The issues regarding Mr. Corbyn so far as I've seen involve direct actions and recordings and meetings taken with the said Mr. Corbyn. Picking out a single person and dumping on them seems to be an act
of . . . scapegoating."
You appear to be fishing in a dark pool -
To prove that you have to come up with far mor examples that there are ar#t present
There is not one single example of a senior politician attacking The Jerwish People - not one- all the attacks have been against Zionism
Since when has it been anti semitic or racist to attack a political party or ideal
I have no time for Hamas - or any religion based organisation, but lets face it, the Hamas is the force that is preventing the total eviction or wiping out of the Palestinian People
The Worl
d is standing by doing nothing while many thousands are being evicted from their homes - go look at a then and now Israel map to see the Palestinian territory has shrunk
People refer to the rocket attacks - go compare the dead on both sides right to the beginning of the conflict - go count the civilian losses and see how Israel and Palestinian figures compare
In the recent border protests the largely unreported casualty figures are 168 dead and up to 17,259 injured - - not one of those was Israeli

Israel has embarked on a process of ethinic cleansing and between a third and a half of the Israeli population have been found to support that process
How the **** do you expect them to react - lie down in front of the tanks?
Hanas stands between the Palestinian state and total annihilation

The State of Israel was won and established on acts of terrorism - the terrorists became national leaders and heroes - Israel still celebrates the bombing of The King David Hotel - an act of terror
Terrorism was major part of the establishing of The State of Israel - that's what happens when a weak, ineffectual pgroup takes on a larger more powerful oppressor

Corbyn's role has been exaggerated and deliberately distorted - his actions have been public knowledge for years and have only become 'support fr terrorism' in the last eighteen months
Corby in sopporting action against the terrorist state of Israel, and for that, he has my full support - I only wish he'd say what he has to say much louder
Ist#raels State terrorist behaviour has been appeased by the press and by politicians for decades
Mass murder, mass land seizures, the use of heavy artillery on civilians, destruction of homes, school, hospitals- mostly briefly reported and then either forgotten or protected by American U.N. vetoes.
If it hadn't been for the U.S., Israel would have faced prosecution in the International Criminal Court.
ISRAEL'S TERRORISM WRIT LARGE

" Don't make me re-think my spittle comments! "
You seem to be a fair way up your own jaxi to belive I give two monkeys what you think (or haven't thought about) - I respond to you only out of politeness -
You haven't actually offered anything that hasn't been said and shot down long ago
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 04:28 AM

Is that the same Labour party and leadership that only last year wiped out the Tory majority?

….but still lost, yes.

How are they doing in the polls now?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 04:33 AM

Jim, you are still denying Labour anti-Semitism, but Corbyn himself admits it!

"I acknowledge there is a real problem of anti-Semitism that Labour is working to overcome."

He has destroyed your case and shown that I was right all along.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 04:34 AM

"Telling it like it is!"
Beats ansering questions I suppose
As a Times reader I am treated to a bdaly barrage of hate filled shite from a once great newspaper that has now become Murdoch's bumwipe
But it is nice to receive further confirmation that this has always been about expunging socialism from the agenda of a Socialist Party , rather than attcks on the Jewish people
If you'd only said this in the first place you wouldn't have wasted so much time stumbling into blind alley
Did I thank you for the Ruth Smeeth link - I'm sure I must have!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 04:50 AM

Jim,
this has always been about expunging socialism from the agenda of a Socialist Party , rather than attcks on the Jewish people

Corbyn says it is about attacks on the Jewish people, proving you wrong!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 05:31 AM

"Corbyn says it is about attacks on the Jewish people,"
Keith - the Israelis have been attacking the Jewish people from day one by claiming that their own terrorist behaviour is "Jewish"
I'll wat to see what Corbyn actually says rather than rely on the words of a ultra right-wing fanatic if it's all the same To you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 05:36 AM

The deniers come up with all sorts of distraction techniques. Only problem is they do not work.

Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle!

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 05:49 AM

I'll wat to see what Corbyn actually says rather than rely on the words of a ultra right-wing fanatic if it's all the same To you

He says,
"I acknowledge there is a real problem of anti-Semitism that Labour is working to overcome."

And,
"I'm sorry for the hurt that has been caused to many Jewish people."

And,
"Anyone who denies that this has surfaced within our Party is clearly actually wrong and contributing to the problem."

So you and your gang have been proved to have been wrong all this time, and I was right all along.

BTW, who is this "ultra right-wing fanatic?"
I am an ex-Labour voter who hopes to be one again.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:08 AM

"As a Times reader I am treated to a bdaly barrage of hate filled shite from a once great newspaper that has now become Murdoch's bumwipe"

One could legitimately ask why you bother buying it if you detest it so much?

Do you delight in masochism and perhaps a little flagellation on Sundays?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:09 AM

Who has denied that there is a problem with antisemitism in the Labour party? The only people I can see denying anything are those who will not accept that antisemitism is a problem everywhere.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:18 AM

"One could legitimately ask why you bother buying it if you detest it so much?"
Codeword - but it is handy to keep an eye on the vomit-worthy side of Bris#tish politics and some of the journalists are pretty readable

"The deniers come up with all sorts of distraction techniques"
Vad you still refuse to descrinbe the antisemitism Labour has a major problem with - as you say "Wriggle, wriggle, wriggle!"
You have no case unless you specify your accusations - even most morons know that
"Who has denied that there is a problem with antisemitism in the Labour party? "
Half a dozen anti-semites would be a major problem for a party based o anti-discrimination - there are probably more than that
I wonder how many racist foreign secretaries it takes to be a problem !
\Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:23 AM

Well, robomatic, he did not attend that ceremony. That ceremony was taking place close to where he was attending something different. Don't believe everything you read, especially when it comes from the pen of an inveterate Corbyn-basher with ulterior motives. I looked at that mural with the bankers before any of this controversy arose, and I got the message, but I didn't think "Jew." My mindset does not accommodate and never has accommodated the concepts of Jews having hooked noses or the concept of Jewish bankers ruling the world or treading all over the working classes. So when I saw the mural I didn't think "Jew." I don't walk round Prestwich and Salford, with their thousands of Jews, and look at people in the street and think "Jew." I think there's something wrong with people who do that. The artist who made that mural had no antisemitic intent. I think if you look at that and see things that it isn't intended to convey then you are simply looking for trouble. In fact, it makes you a damn sight more antisemitic than the person you're accusing. It's you who's walking around with those stereotypes embedded in your brain and you'd better ask yourself why you're harbouring them. Not you personally. It's a bit stiff sometimes to keep typing "one" instead of "you."

As for Corbyn's remarks about Hamas, he has long since expressed, very publicly, his regret for using the words he used. You either accept that or you don't. If you don't, I can't help you. One thing's for sure. Hamas and Hezbollah exist only because of the plight of the Palestinians. There are rotten people in the ranks of both, they frequently carry out wrong-headed actions but there's hardly anyone else speaking up for the Palestinians. That could be our fault for permitting Israel to carry out atrocities with impunity far worse than anything Hamas does, refusing to engage with those speaking up for the Palestinians. The "terrorists" in the IRA of The Troubles are now in government. We had to sit down with them in the end and so a lot of lip-biting. Bit of a learning curve, is history.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: KarenH
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:33 AM

Well said Dave the Gnome.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:34 AM

Dave,
Who has denied that there is a problem with antisemitism in the Labour party?

All your gang have denied it has a problem above that of other parties and organisations.
Yes anti-Semitism is everywhere and Labour was no worse than others, but Corbyn says it is now a "real problem" that "has surfaced within our Party" and "hurt that has been caused to many Jewish people."

That is what I have been telling you for years, and much vile abuse I got for it.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:44 AM

No examples of anyone denying that there is antisemitism in the Labour party then?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 06:51 AM

It is to the shame of these peoiple that they have a#tageted the Labour party and totally ignored what is happening elsewhere
In a Britain that has been found to have between a third and a half of the population confessing to hold racist views, there is now 100 incidents of antisemitism per month being reported to the police - not worthy of comment unless they can be linked to the Labour party
God only knows how many go unreported
Now that's what I call antisemitism
This is political opportunism gone mad
Jimnm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 07:59 AM

Well we can't answer for everybody. But we should be free of anti semitism ourselves. And we should have (as Jim says) humanitarian concern for oppressed people.

The problem I suppose is with how some people see the state of Israel.

I don't think the Israelis or the Palestinians will give a tinkers turd about what their detractors or supporters are saying in an English opposition party.

However the opinionated tripe that some people are coming up with may very well keep us in opposition

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 08:02 AM

Interesting analysis from the campaign against antisemitism.

Analysis of the data shows patterns that remain consistent each year, pointing to specific areas of concern. This provides a valuable resource to Campaign Against Antisemitism and other organisations combating antisemitism which wish to target their outreach work effectively. For example, men are much more likely to be antisemitic than women, older people are much more likely to be antisemitic than younger people, and people of lower social grades are more likely to be antisemitic than people of higher social grades. Our data also revealed patterns in antisemitism across political divides, with supporters of left-wing political parties and supporters of the ‘remain’ camp in the EU referendum all less likely to be antisemitic than those on the right or supporters of the ‘leave’ camp. However, the data does not support suggestions that the EU referendum has unleashed an increase in antisemitism.

Look up 'antisemitism barometer' and download the latest report to see more.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 08:06 AM

War criminal Tony Blair has just declared that "the Labour Party is finished"
Jeremy Corbyn responded by pointing out that Labour Part membership is higher than it has ever been in his lifetime
Oh - who is an innocent girl to believe in such a situation!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 08:59 AM

Dave,
No examples of anyone denying that there is antisemitism in the Labour party then?

Lots of examples of you all denying Labour has a particular and serious problem over and above anything you might expect from such an organisation.
But Corbyn himself acknowledges that it does.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 09:15 AM

So, still no examples of anyone denying that there is antisemitism in the Labour party then. But we do have positive confirmation that older men on the right wing of politics, that support leaving the EU, are more likely to be antisemitic than others. Does that description ring any bells with anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 09:24 AM

These people are refusing to respond that there has been a sharp rise in antisemitism in Britain
All they are interesdtd is in using the British Jewish people as a club to beat their least favourite political figure
We have a new kid on the block - Nationalist British right-wing antisemitism deniers
If Holocaust denial is antisemitism this has to be
To use Jews as political pawns is as low as it gets
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 09:34 AM

Funnily enough, Jim, the survey I just referred to opens with the following lines

This research is both harrowing and uplifting. Whilst for the past three years antisemitic crime has broken records every year, and antisemitism scandals have repeatedly rocked our politics, British society has mounted an astounding insurgency against antisemitism. Even as anti-Jewish racism made the headlines, British people appear to have taken the opportunity to shun the ancient anti-Jewish prejudices that some had acquired.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 09:42 AM

In my opinion the British People, while holding and sometimes expressing racist and sectarian views, seldo#m act on them
The hate crimes that are taking place at present seem to be by organised groups who have taken heart from Brexit and Trump
We have the Tommy Robinsons, Trump has the Klan and the Southern fundamentalists
The great danger lies in the Farages of this world who use basic xenophobia as a career opportunity
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 09:42 AM

Dave,
So, still no examples of anyone denying that there is antisemitism in the Labour party then.

No. Of course not!
Why would anyone argue that Labour has a lower level of anti-Semitism than would be expected, infinitely lower for a zero count, when this whole 3 year debate has been about whether it has a much higher count than should be expected?

We now have Corbyn himself confirming that it does have a much higher count.
Dangerously high, such that "hurt that has been caused to many Jewish people."

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 09:50 AM

To support Dave's posts and to laugh in the face of Keith's, for a second time in this thread a chunk from a piece I quoted the other day:

"YouGov polls done in 2015 and again in 2017 found that Tory voters are more likely to hold negative views about Jews than Labour voters. For example, in 2015, 31% Conservatives thought Jews chase money more than other Britons. In 2017, the figure went down to 22%. For Labour the figures were 22% and 14%. A 2017 study looking at British attitudes towards Jews by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research found that 30% of the general population hold at least one ‘anti-Semitic attitude’. Figures on the left are similar to or below the population mean, while those on the right are significantly more likely to hold at least one anti-Semitic attitude. Such facts do not stop the oft repeated accusations against the left."

('Twas your friend Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, Keith)

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 09:55 AM

Very interesting Steve, but I was talking about the problem of anti-Semitism in the Labour Party which you have wrongly been denying the existence of for years.

No other party has been shown to have anything approaching it.
No other party has been torn apart arguing about it.
No other party leader has had to apologise to the many Jewish people hurt by it.
Just Labour.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:06 AM

No other party, or party leader, has been targeted by the Tory-supporting MSM, aided and abetted by rogue elements amongst its own members, and driven by the Israel regime, the way Labour and JC have.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:07 AM

Well said Keith! But the upside is that all the time the controversy hogs the headlines it takes Labour even further away from power!

Every cloud has a silver lining! Meanwhile, it is delightful to watch the usual suspects squirming while denying the obvious. It shows them for what they are.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:09 AM

I suspect that the majority of the electorate really don't give a flying fuck about this nonsense, and see it for precisely what it is - a dirty tricks campaign by a Tory party with a looming Brexit disaster, no policies, and nothing left in the tank.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Iains
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:19 AM

"I suspect that the majority of the electorate really don't give a flying fuck about this nonsense,"

After the next election we shall have the proof. I wont be putting a bet on a swing to labour.

Subject: RE: BS: The UK Labour Party and Antisemitism.
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Sep 18 - 10:21 AM

Isn't it odd.....