BS: Caliphate

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 02:51 PM

And IF 1950 is "ancient History" then 1967 is not much better- So why the demands to roll back the borders of Israel to 1967, to take advantage of the military conquests of the Arab League, when the military conquests of Israel are considered illegal?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 02:56 PM

O,

From the opening post:
"does that mean that the Palestinians actually have an islamic "home"land now?"

Thus the discussion of the PRESENT Palestinian Homeland of TransJordan ( now Jordan),
created in violation of the Mandate by Great Britain

"On 21 March 1921, the Foreign and Colonial office legal advisers decided to introduce Article 25 into the Mandatory Palestine, which brought Transjordan under the mandate and stated that in that territory, Britain could 'postpone or withhold' those articles of the Mandate concerning a Jewish national home. It was approved by Curzon on 31 March 1921, and the revised final draft of the mandate (including Transjordan) was forwarded to the League of Nations on 22 July 1922.[14][15] In August 1922, the British government presented a memorandum to the League of Nations stating that Transjordan would be excluded from all the provisions dealing with Jewish settlement, and this memorandum was approved by the League on 12 August.

Abdullah established his government on 11 April 1921.[16] Britain administered the part west of the Jordan as Palestine, and the part east of the Jordan as Transjordan.[17] Technically they remained one mandate, but most official documents referred to them as if they were two separate mandates. In May 1923 Transjordan was granted a degree of independence with Abdullah as ruler and St John Philby as chief representative.[18]"

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 02:59 PM

Jim,

Your post belongs in the other thread…

"If you have no answer and are nor even to consider suggestions, you are little more than a rabble-rouser whose only contribution is to gve support to the thugs
"

So please tell us your answer, since you reject everyone else's suggestions?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 03:13 PM

He's already given us his answer, Bruce; "we must negotiate, 'mend fences'" ···

and an excellent answer it is too; if only they would. But he has not answered my point, that they wouldn't for fear of what Hamas or any of such would do to them if they suspected they even thought of it.

So then I am deficient, and a mischievous "rabble-rouser" for not thinking he is talking much sense. Precisely which 'thugs' I am giving support to, because I confess myself unable to suggest solutions to insoluble problems, & remain alarmed at the foreseeable consequences of the complacent head-burying shrugging off of the problem of militant islamism in our midst by such as him, he doesn't specify.

I am no more responsible by my thinking for deplorable attacks on individual muslims than he is for the killing of Mr Rigby -- much less, in fact, I would submit. But just try to get that idea into J Carroll's permanently locked up intellect.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 07:07 PM

"The palistinians (sic) have had a state since prehistory, ..."

Mrrzy, that is an over broad reading of history (or prehistory), and has no basis in normative scholarship. I do not claim to be an expert of the ANE, but it was my area of study for my B.A. in History, and I have been an interested layman for over fifty years since. I know that to most folks, here, history of the area has no meaning. I personally prefer the term Levant, a term not used quite so much now, to describe the area from NE Sinai along the Mediterranean Coast to SE Anatolia (Turkey) and eastward into what is now parts of Jordan and Syria. The reason for my preference is that "Levant" carries no emotional religious, ethnic nor racial baggage in discussing the history of that place.

Palestine is the English form of the Latin word for Philistines, an arch foe of Israelites in the pre-Monarchic period and the early kingdom period of Israel from the 10th century BCE (BC). Philistines were neither Arab peoples or Semitic peoples; they came from the Mediterranean islands, most notably Crete, Cyprus and Sardinia, and were kin to the later Greeks.

Arabs (that is folks from the Arabian peninsula, were not a major player in the area, except for traders, until the Roman period in the Levant (2nd century BCE. And, of course, there was no Muslim presence until the mid-7th century CE(AD), which coincides with a great Arab influx into the Levant, even until modern times.

If you, Mrrzy (or anyone) are truly interested in the History, PM me. If I get a few requests I will put a small reading list together for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Lighter
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 08:45 PM

Those who ignore history are doomed to be held in esteem by zealots who don't give a damn.

Those who know history are mostly doomed to be ignored by everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 09:56 PM

"So the nations of Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan are no more valid than Israel is." "All set up by the Mandate Powers." beardedbruce @8:09 AM today.

More to this--
The Mandates set by the League of Nations in the Middle East were
Iraq - British
Palestine - British
Syria - French
Lebanon - French

The French mandates evolved into independent countries in 1946.
Iraq, in which the Hashemi family of Arabia was installed as rulers gained full independence in 1932.

Which brings us back to Palestine. The British made promises to two groups for independent states, Jews and Arabs, fore homelands in Palestine. In 1923 the area of Palestine east of the Jordan River was split off as the Arab homeland. BUT the Brits did not choose a local Arab as ruler. The Brits brought into Transjordan a non Palestinian from Iraq, another branch of the Hashemis (which had expected to rule Iraq) as a consolation for British perfidy. Transjordan (as Jordan) became fully independent in 1946.

Perhaps because there was no Palestinian leadership allowed in the country consisting of Palestinian population, and because of anti-Jewish sentiment and pogroms in Palestine from the 1920s to the 1940s, the Palestinians recognize Jordan as the Palestinian homeland.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 02:10 AM

"and an excellent answer it is too; if only they would. But he has not answered my point, that they wouldn't for fear of what Hamas or any of such would do to them if they suspected they even thought of it."
If you are talking about Israel/Palestine - ho many peace conferences have there been so far, and how many times has Israel been the direct cause of sabotaging those attempts at peace?
Even Israel's strongest ally, the United States, declared that she Israel's behaviour was the direct cause of scuppering the last on - not Hamas.
Israel has no interest in any peace that doesn't involve her being allowed to expand, to keep what she has won by military force and to allow her to continue her aim of an Apartheid state.
The idea that Hamas "holds a knife at the throat" of the Palestinian people is as much of a dishonest cop-out as is the idea that mending fences with the Muslim population in Britain is not possible because of a similar threat by extremists here.
The Islamist bogey-man is an argument for vilifying all Muslims, no more - an excuse for doing nothing.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 07:31 AM

Thank you, John.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 07:57 AM

That is interesting John, but surely the more important question is who occupied the lands before the Ottoman Empire. It seems to me that the history is very relevant. You for the first time suggest that the population of the Levant (a useful naming suggestion) was then not Arabian but "Philistine" - that is to say from other parts of the Eastern Mediterranean. At least I think that that is your thesis. I should like to see more support for that, and perhaps it turns at least in part on who is "an Arab".

However, if they were "Philistine" (which you equate to "Palestinian") then upon the fall of the Ottoman Empire the Philistines became, by reversion, those entitled to the Levant.

I progress from there to say that the difference between Israel and the other states to which BB refers is that Israel was given to invaders who had not been there for thousands of years, whereas although the rulership of other states may have been from outsiders the people there were those to whom reversion (under government) occurred.

I do note however that BB offers some factual support for the view that the proposers of what has become Israel were terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 09:13 AM

an excuse for doing nothing.
Jim Carroll"

.,.,

All v well being selfrighteous, Jim. But what is to be done? See bobad's post of just a few minutes back on the Small Hope thread: Hamas will not negotiate, and will not allow anyone else to either. Do you think our internal Islamists here will allow any such accommodations either? & if you think that's just a 'bogeyman', then I ask again, what did Mr Rigby die of -- nasty attack of hay·fever, wasn't it?

♫ ···
Oh what's the use
Why do I bother?
Think I'll just go back
To bed ··· ♫♫

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: pdq
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 10:40 AM

"However, if they were "Philistine" (which you equate to "Palestinian") then upon the fall of the Ottoman Empire the Philistines became, by reversion, those entitled to the Levant.


The Philistines have been gone for many centuries. Mostly went to Egypt I understand.

The people called palestinians are just garden variety Arabs with no historical claim to the area. Many countries sent Arab people into the area when the Zionist movement was observed. They were supposed to block the Jews, perhaps terrorize them.

Mark Twain visited the area in the late 1900s and found it nearly empty.

There are now far too many Arabs to fit back on the Arabian Peninsula. In fact, The Arab World is now composed of 20 Arab-speaking countries, not including Israel, which they also claim.

As used by Balfour, Palestine = Canaan = Israel = Holy Lands. Yes, a Jewish Homeland which is what The Mandate was supposed to re-estalblish.

Present use of palestinian is a public relations ploy used by Yarir Arafat.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 11:25 AM

"an excuse for doing nothing."
As I said - an excuse for doing nothing - go back to bed.
Can't find anything from Bobad - but then again, I can get most of whet he has to say direct from the horses mouth - Muslim Watch, White Supremist or Gatestone.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 11:52 AM

'During the period of the Mandate, it was the Jewish population that was known as "Palestinians" including those who served in the British Army in World War II.

The current myth is that these Arabs were long established in Palestine, until the Jews came and "displaced" them. The fact is, that recent Arab immigration into Palestine "displaced" the Jews. That the massive increase in Arab population was very recent is attested by the ruling of the United Nations: That any Arab who had lived in Palestine for two years and then left in 1948 qualifies as a "Palestinian refugees". After the 1967 war this was changed to "Israeli refugees.

What was to become of "Palestine" after the Mandate? This question was taken up by various British and international commissions and other bodies, culminating with the United Nations in 1947. By 1948, the Arabs had still not yet discovered their ancient nation of Falastin. When they were offered half of Palestine west of the Jordan River for a state, the offer was violently rejected. Six Arab states launched a war of annihilation against the nascent State of Israel. Their purpose was not to establish an independent Falastin. Their aim was to partition western Palestine amongst themselves.

They did not succeed in killing Israel, but Trans-Jordan succeeded in taking Judea and Samaria (West Bank) and East Jerusalem, killing or driving out all the Jews who had lived in those places, and banning Jews of all nations from Jewish holy places. Egypt succeeded in taking the Gaza Strip. These two Arab states held these lands until 1967. Then they launched another war of annihilation against Israel, and in consequence lost the lands they had taken by war in 1948. During those 19 years, 1948-1967, Jordan and Egypt never offered to surrendar those lands to make up an independent state of Falastin. The "Palestinians" never sought it. Nobody in the world ever suggested it,much less demanded it.
"

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 12:01 PM

"As I said - an excuse for doing nothing - go back to bed."
.,,.

OK Jim.

Goo'night.

Oh, BTW ~~ still haven't answered my question, have you...

Like -- what are YOU going to DO?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Correction to my post yesterday
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 12:06 PM

"Perhaps because there was no Palestinian leadership allowed in the country consisting of Palestinian population, and because of anti-Jewish sentiment and pogroms in Palestine from the 1920s to the 1940s, the Palestinians recognize Jordan as the Palestinian homeland."

The last clause should have read, "...the Palestinians DO NOT recognize Jordan as a Palestinian homeland."

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:07 PM

Richard Bridge—Thank you for your response. I'm sorry to have to use your full post to frame my answers to you in brackets [-], but I know not HTML to colorize or italicize what I wanted to say...and I didn't want to use all CAPS, lest you think I'm yelling at you. It is difficult to present thousands of years of history into a few paragraphs, so I'm happy to clarify my post for you. Richard, I make you the same offer I made Mrrzy, PM me and I will send you a brief reading list, but everything I've written can be easily searched on the web.

                                                                   ======================
That is interesting John, but surely the more important question is who occupied the lands before the Ottoman Empire. It seems to me that the history is very relevant. You for the first time suggest that the population of the Levant (a useful naming suggestion) [maybe on this thread, but over the years I have used 'Levant' on occasion on the 'Cat] was then not Arabian but "Philistine" - that is to say from other parts of the Eastern Mediterranean. [The Philistines did not control the Levant, only a small portion in the southwest around Gaza-five cities] At least I think that that is your thesis. I should like to see more support for that, and perhaps it turns at least in part on who is "an Arab".

However, if they were "Philistine" (which you equate to "Palestinian") [This is not my equation, it is the accepted etymology of the word.] then upon the fall of the Ottoman Empire the Philistines became, by reversion, those entitled to the Levant. [The irony of the Roman renaming the area for the Jews most feared enemy, is that they had disappeared as an entity centuries before.]

I progress from there to say that the difference between Israel and the other states to which BB refers is that Israel was given to invaders who had not been there for thousands of years [this is incorrect. Jews, always were a portion of the population of the Levant, although not in control of any of it after the failure of the Bar Khochba revolt in the 2nd century CE] whereas although the rulership of other states may have been from outsiders the people there were those to whom reversion (under government) occurred. [I'm sorry, I don't understand what your conclusion, here, is.]

I do note however that BB offers some factual support for the view that the proposers of what has become Israel were terrorists. [It is true that the Romans considered Judeans to be what we call terrorists, the historic term is the Zealots. In modern times the British considered some Jews--both Palestinian born and immigrants—who were denied their promised portion of Palestine for a homeland after the Palestinians had received theirs].

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:13 PM

"Like -- what are YOU going to DO?"
As you say - it's somebody elses job to do things - I have mede my suggestions - you have yet to do so.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:33 PM

Yes, Jim. I am really not trying to be quarrelsome, or merely score points, this time. But you honestly have not answered [what I consider to be] my unanswerable objections to your proposed solution; that it would be, literally, a non-starter, because the main necessary participants would not come to the negotiating table under any consideration whatever: as you will see if you will just read that bobad post on the other "Small Hopes" thread that I have already ref'd you to; and which can't be as difficult for you to find as you claimed, as it is immediately adjacent to one of yours. In fact, I hope he won't mind, but I copy it here for you to consider; in, I repeat, a spirit of opposition to your views, but I hope not aggressively:

"I spent hours yesterday morning and afternoon trying to convince my main Hamas contact to speak to his leaders to call for an immediately unconditional 24 hour ceasefire in order to prevent the escalation. My message made it all the way up to Khaled Mashal. I wanted to try to prevent the inevitable death of innocent people and the destruction that this war would cause.
The Hamas leadership decided to ignore the possibility of the ceasefire and challenged Israel to "bring it on". These irresponsible leaders are criminals to their own people. I can honestly say that Netanyahu did not want to escalate this war. It is so unfortunate that these Hamas leaders, some sitting in hotel abroad and others safely hiding underground in Gaza put the innocent people of Gaza in the direct line of fire. This is criminal.
Force alone will never be a proper response to the problems of human suffering. Israel had to respond with force, I am sorry to say, but Israel must also present a plan for addressing the real and urgent human needs of the 1.7 million people in Gaza, or else this ongoing war never end." ... Gershon Baskin

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 08:55 AM

"Hamas at present is refusing to discuss a cease-fire" ~~~~~

Of all the horrid, hideous notes of woe,
Sadder than owl-songs or the midnight blast;
    Is that portentous phrase,

          "I told you so."

    Byron - Don Juan (canto XIV, st. 50)

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 09:07 AM

Then too, Israel at present is refusing to discuss a cease-fire.

Got a poem for that, ~M~?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 09:11 AM

Like with Tango, It normally takes two to cease-fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 09:58 AM

"unanswerable objections "
Can I make something clear Mike - it really shouldn't be necessary.
My reference to mending fences has been throughout, the problems raised by Muslim fighters returning to Britain - it is why I have emphasised the docile and to some degree co-operative position of British Muslims.
The Middle East is a different matter, and is a case of seeking an international solution.
I feel that the U.S. has to drop its use of the veto on behalf of Israel, (half-way there at present anyway) and a world-wide boycott of Israel should be called for to force her to take peace talks seriously.
Whatever the feelings of the Palestinian leadership and Hamas towards Israel, they are in no position to present a serious military threat.
It can be validly claimed that the rocket attacks are a direct response to expansionism, the blockage and the history of atrocities carried out against the Palestinian people.
Israel is a sophisticated, well armed (to the point of nuclear capability) and wealthy State - Palestine is an extremely impoverished Third World one - David and Goliath was a Biblical fairy tale, nothing more.
Without world intervention, led by the U.N., both of us will live to see an encore of the Holocaust.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 10:03 AM

The confirmation comes hours after Ynetnews reported that Egypt and another Arab nation, most probably Qatar, were working on an initial draft of a cease-fire between Israel and Hamas, which was presented to both sides Saturday.

Hamas had refused to discuss the terms of the cease-fire, while Israel has expressed its willingness to meet to negotiate the details of the deal.

Egypt confirms push to end Israel-Hamas fighting

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: pdq
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 10:30 AM

The name Palestine was adopted by the Moslem residents of the Holy Land and used for their advantage. "Yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel... " (Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Department head of the PLO and member of its Executive Council, Dutch daily Trouw, March 1977).

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 11:53 AM

Jee, PeeDee, and here I thought the name "Palestine" dated back at least to before the Crusades...... come to think of it, its mentioned in Genesis, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 01:48 PM

The dispute surrounding the name Palestine has been part of Israel's denying the Palestinian's right continue to occupy the area they have done for millenia - it is immaterial one way or the other.
It's official use to identifya part of the Arab lands dates back at least to the 7th century - in anybody's book, thirteen centuries is long enough to give the right of a claim to live in the area, except the Israelis, it would appear.
Jim Carroll

"The name Palestine is given to the region spreading from eastern Mediterranean coast to the Jordan Valley to the area covering Galilee Lake in the north and southern Negev Desert. The origin of this word lies in "Plesheth". This is a name appearing frequently in the Bible and have started being known as "Philistine" in English. The world root of "Plesheth" lies in the word "palah" was is a term used generally in the sense of migratory, referring to the Palestinian's conquest of the coast of Mediterranean. These people were mostly originates of Asia Minor and Greece and gradually became a part of the Arab world".

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate what means Palestine?
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 04:25 PM

"The dispute surrounding the name Palestine has been part of Israel's denying the Palestinian's right continue to occupy the area [Wrong]they have done for millenia - it is immaterial one way or the other."
"It's official use to identifya part of the Arab lands dates back at least to the 7th century [Further back]- in anybody's book, thirteen centuries is long enough to give the right of a claim to live in the area, except the Israelis, it would appear.[Opinion not factual]" [-] = mine.
Jim Carroll
>
>
Palestine is the term given to the whole area by the Romans after quelling two Jewish attempts to remove Roman control of Judea (75CE and 135CE). They chose that name, as a form of irony, to de-Judaiize the area politically, in naming it for the main Israelite/Judean enemy, the Philistines--who had, incidentally disappeared as a polity centuries before.

The Philistines had never controlled the area as a whole. At their peak their control was mainly five cities in the southwest of what is now Israel, abutting Sinai Peninsula, one of which was Gaza. The Philistines were not Arab, nor were they Semites. They came from Mediterranean islands, such as Cypress and Sardinia.

After 135, some Jewish presence throughout Palestine. In the early 7th century CE Palestine was part of the Persian Sassinid empire. Jews were allowed local autonomy for about ten years, until the Arab Muslim conquest of Palestine. And there still continued to be a Jewish population there, no matter who controlled the area. And such there was forever into the 20th century.

Following WWI, the victors, the League of Nations, divided up the Middle East in to what eventually became Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Jordan (split off from the original Palestine Mandate). The remainder of the Palestine Mandate remained in limbo from 1923 on owing to the fecklessness of the British Government. From 1923 Arabs (Muslim and Christian), and Jews (native born or immigrants) considered themselves Palestinean (or at least acknowledging they lived in Mandated Palestine). Area Jews ceased considering themselves Palestinian with the declaration of the State of Israel.
>
>
Jim, Greg F. or whomever: do not ask for sources; I am not writing a term paper, nor am I quoting a source directly. You guys do not usually provide sources either for you posts. You can get sources,as I did, simply by googling or yahooing, or searching your favorite search engine. You can get documents and books from libraries as I have. You can get sources on both sides, as I have.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 05:06 PM

Thanks John, I appreciate your effort at elucidating the complex history of that part of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Don Firth
Date: 12 Jul 14 - 06:57 PM

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but in going through some of the earlier posts, this occurred to me:

I've heard these three friends several times on KUOW-FM, my local NPR affiliate. Very interesting—and friendly—discussions.

http://interfaithamigos.com/About_Us.html.

A chance to hear them in action HERE.

Rather than taking militant religious types of various flavors out and shooting the lot, how about lining them up and giving them all a hearty dope-slap?

Nah. Probably wouldn't do it. Okay, back to reading more of this thread. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 02:26 AM

"complex history of that part of the world"
Complex, disputed - and totally immaterial.
Claims of who called themselves what have no bearing on the fact that Arabs have occupied the area they are no being told they have no claim to for millenia.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 11:49 AM

The story of the Caliphate in Syria-Iraq has been lost in all the rehash of Palestine (several threads), but a bit of news today.
There are divisions in the Sunni groups from which ISIS is soliciting support.
Taliban in both Pakistan and Afghanistan have refused to comment on the caliphate, support is not favored by all fractions.

Naqshbandi leader Al-Douri (head of a group of Sunni loyalists to Saddam Hussain's Baath Party)) has released an audiotape praising ISIS.

Iraqi UN envoy Miadenov says Iraq needs a "firm hand" (the Parliament dissolved in disarray and the country has no overall governance) but it is not known who can lead strongly). The Sunni political group is trying to elect a parliamentary speaker in hopes of a return to power.

The Kurds announced that they now control two more large oilfields, and are fighting ISIS at their "border."

Above in part from Assyrian International News Agency.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 12:54 PM

Gee, and here I thought all these evil Muslims walked in lockstep.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 01:13 PM

"Gee, and here I thought all these evil Muslims walked in lockstep."
Sarcasm becomes you.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 01:21 PM

"Gee, and here I thought all these evil Muslims walked in lockstep."

So I guess you were wrong in thinking that as you are in so many other things.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 01:29 PM

Gee, I don't think so, Boo - since I got that impression of The Muslim Menace from you, Keith & BB.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 02:20 PM

Keep trying Greg - you may eventually figure it out:

Islam vs. Islamists

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 03:28 PM

"versus"
I have just consulted five (5) dictionaries, and as I expected each notes the use versus as a comparison or contrast. It seems bobad's use was quite correct.

Do you feel a bit like what you called him, now? Of course you don't, Musket; you'd rather call him names.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 03:39 PM

I love it when a plan comes together.

Really, ads hominem ill become anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: bobad
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 03:40 PM

John, that's the title of the documentary I linked to. I fear Mr.Musket is losing it as has been evident for some time now. Poor chap, I feel for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 03:51 PM

""Ask yourself:  Does this appearance (of events) concern the things that are within my own control or those that are not?  If it concerns anything outside your control, train yourself not to worry about it.""

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 03:52 PM

Last quote, Epitetus

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Ed T
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 03:53 PM

Oops, Epictetus

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jul 14 - 05:59 PM

I fear Ian may have the drink taken?

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 07:43 AM

Jim,

Claims of who called themselves what have no bearing on the fact that Jews have occupied the area they are now being told they have no claim to for millennia.

But then, we know that YOU do not consider Jews to be human, or to have the rights you are demanding for Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Musket
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 08:14 AM

I was heartened to see Prof Stephen Hawking has refused to attend a scientific conference in Israel out of respect for oppressed Palestinian scientists.

It takes respectable people to wipe the veneer of respectability from repugnant oppressive governments who use terror of their own people as justification for carrying on what causes the terror in the first place.

I believe Germany called the French resistance terrorists...

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 08:29 AM

"Claims of who called themselves what have no bearing on the fact that Jews have occupied the area they are now being told they have no claim to for millennia."
In practical terms , the Palestinians have had no rights to occupy the land thy have occupied for millenia, other than that which is of no use to Israel - not being "told they have no right" - a practical fact.
Israel have not proved themselves good neighbours from day one - their hand-granading occupied homes being proof positive of this.
You say I don't consider Jews human - you are the one who claim them to be terrorist implicated in the mass murder of refugees, the use of chemical weapons and the ethnic cleansing of Bedouins - as far as the rest of us are concerned, it is the Israelis who are the culprits.
Please go on blaming 'The Jews' as long as you wish - it underlines the Antisemitism of you and your little gang.
Jm Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 09:40 AM

Jews have occupied the area they are now being told they have no claim to for millennia...

Well, BB, Per Boo: Being displaced doesn't remove rights as indigenous people NO MATTER HOW LONG THEY ARE DISPLACED FOR[emphasis his]. ... Jews have been there for three thousand years...

Ergo, I guess the folks occupying the area prior to 3000 years ago have prior claom over "The Jews" & the land should be teturned to them, then.

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 09:57 AM

Israel have not proved themselves good neighbours from day one - their hand-granading occupied homes being proof positive of this.


Did all Israelis do that?
Of course not, and they were also victims of atrocities.

Israel's neighbours proved themselves bad on day one by invading with five armies to sweep Israel away!

Subject: RE: BS: Caliphate
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 10:03 AM

So, GregF,

Your post indicates that the Palestinians have NO right to any land whatsoever, since they were AFTER the Jews that you claim have no right to the land.

Waiting for you to tell the Palestinians to go away…..