BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:36 AM

http://www.democracynow.org./2010/6/9/years_of_internal_bp_probes_warned

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:09 AM

I understand that members of Congress are slowly starting to question the practices of US based big oil too, and that a pattern is emerging that none are any better placed than BP to deal with a blowout like this one.

Tiddley-pom.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:16 AM

Once again, CarolC, thank you!! Very interesting video!....and it brought up several items I previously posted, about multinational corporations(BP), having larger budgets than most countries, and they are likened to 'countries' of their own...and how they can thumb their nose, at our government, and the EPA. Again, I posted that this is "the corporation machine versus the political machine"...and yet they have corrupted each other, and the PEOPLE are their victims..and we virtually have no say! On top of that, they both are lying through their teeth, to us!

You go girl!!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:18 AM

Incidentally, BP PLC (that stands for "Public Limited Company" is incorporated and exists under and in accordance with the laws of England and Wales. It was incorporated in 1909, and its registered number is 00102498. Its registered office is in London (it also happens to be its head office but that is not the point). It was incorporated as "the British Petroleum Company Ltd". It became a PLC when that status became available as a matter of law.   It changed its name to   BP Amoco PLC in 1998 and to BP PLC in 2001.

It is an English company, regardless of who owns the shares or who the directors are, or who by any means controls it.

Is that clear now?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:36 AM

Present reports from US government sources are 35,000 to 60,000 barrels per day.


Previous estimate was 40,000 barrels per day.

Before that ,it was various numbers, starting at 5,000 barrels per day, then 10,000, then 20,000.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:57 AM

The volume of the emissions is nothing to do with who is to blame for them. All very dreadful, and a waste too, and when are Transocean, Halliburton, and Cameron-Cooper going to step up to the plate?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:18 AM

Bruce: "Present reports from US government sources are 35,000 to 60,000 barrels per day.
Previous estimate was 40,000 barrels per day.
Before that ,it was various numbers, starting at 5,000 barrels per day, then 10,000, then 20,000."

Sounds like an auction!
When the truth, of IF the truth comes out, Bruce, the numbers will stagger your imagination!

If it is a Government report, you can count on it being a lie!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 11:26 AM

GTS,

What, you don't think Obama is telling the truth???

I have been informed that whatever he says is true.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:25 PM

Is that clear now?

Clear as crystal. But what's not clear is why the fuck it matters. If a company has done wrong, it will be called on the carpet, even if it's duly registered in Antarctica.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 02:46 PM

You want to make sure you have your units straight. I've heard all sorts of wildly varying reports on how much oil is pouring into the Gulf. Some reports say "barrels" and some reports say "gallons."

So you might want to be clear on what units you're talking about.

Some folks want to make it sound like a piddliig amount, others want to make it sound like it's a cataclysm of galactic proportions. Each for their own reasons. So. . . .

Me? No axe to grind. I'm just waiting for something definitive.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:06 PM

It's relevant, mousie, because too many US commentators are trying to pass the buck to BP, and in the absence of any good reason it can only be because of xenophobia.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:32 PM

BP has stated they are responsible for damages. There is no passing the buck.

Quote from today:
Mr. Svanberg apologized "to the American people" for the disaster and said that BP would "look after the people affected, and we will repair the damage to this region and the economy."
(New York Times report)

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 03:58 PM

C'mon, Richard.

No "passing the buck" and no "xenophobia" on the part of the vast majority of Americans. Many Americans would be just as angry at Exxon, Shell (Dutch owned), Standard Oil, or Uncle Charlie and his brace-and-bit if they had caused this.

In the Exxon-Valdez oil spill in Prince William Sound, the spill was blamed on Exxon. Sure, it was a drunken captain who was the direct cause of the disaster, but it was still the responsibility of Exxon to see that their tankers had competent crews. The captain had a record of drinking and negligence, but Exxon still kept him on. He was a disaster looking for a place to happen. So Exxon was ultimately responsible.

And it was a BP executive who ordered the drilling crew to speed up the drilling, while the crew argued that it would be unsafe to do so, anticipating what might—and did—happen. The executive was adamant and insisted. Short of mutiny, there was little the drilling crew could do.

BP is ultimately responsible. The fact that BP stands of "British Petroleum" is beside the point. Nobody holds the British people responsible.

The idea that there is bigotry involved is just plain silly.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:07 PM

BP has put (?) $20 billion in a fund for relief- we don't know what kind of oversight there will be or how payments will be made.

BP has also suspended dividends for the year.

Don, flow estimates are 30,000 to 60,000 bbl/day, from various sources within university science and engineering departments; BP talks of soon capturing 30,000 bbl/day.
A barrel contains 42 US gallons.
The European standard is tonnes, but most reports use the barrel, or translate into gallons.
(millions make my eyes glaze)

The apologist, Richard Bridge, if he likes the company so much, may soon be able to buy it with pocket change. The suspension of dividends is lowering the share price again (at $31.50 the last time I looked today and as low as $29.58).

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:14 PM

I think it's time to buy Richard a tinfoil hat.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:44 PM

"Nobody holds the British people responsible."

I'm sure, and to prove it here's Some BP guy with a comedy American accent

;0)

I don't really care either way. But this guys appalling accent did me in!

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 04:57 PM

The BBC, a couple of nights ago, showed the BP sunflower(?) shedding leaves.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Alice
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 05:59 PM

When BP itself has accepted responsibility for it, how can you go on ranting like that?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 06:06 PM

Svanberg's obviously a bigot!!! Man The Barricades!!!

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: mousethief
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 07:21 PM

Those Americans are being so mean! Doggone them! At least, the British press says so. And they should know. There's no indication of it in the American press, which you'd think would be joining in the Brit-bashing if it were an anti-Brit free-for-all. But maybe it's a cover-up conspiracy. Yeah, that's it. If any American newspaper or cable news show or anything looks like it's about to say anything that might spill the beans about our increasing hatred of the United Kingdom, they are hushed by the fellows in the black helicopters and the designer shades.

Anybody? 50p / 25¢ will go a long way toward buying a roll of aluminum foil. (Buy a man a tinfoil hat and you keep him safe from ionizing brain rays for a day. Buy him a roll of aluminum foil and you keep him safe for weeks, easily.)

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Tootler
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 07:40 PM

...US commentators are trying to pass the buck to BP

They are not passing the buck. BP are responsible for the current oil spill off the US coast nor are BP denying it.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 08:41 PM

Svanberg probably wishes that he had stayed with Ericsson.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spil
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 10:32 PM

Has no one suggested marching the GP executives down to the shore and tossing them in to sink or swim in their own oil spill? Why should the pelicans and other sea creatures have all the fun?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:38 AM

Don't be silly. Svanberg is saying what he has to say - the confession of a defendant in a show trial.

Tootler, read my explanation above about liability for sub-contractors. The principal has liability for the negligent choice of subcontractor - and hence the liability of Exxonn for the Exxonn Valdez.

BP were (IMHO) not negligent to subcontract to Transocean, Halliburton, or Cameron-Cooper. They may be liable for their own instructions, if negligent (in general there is usually no strict liability for being wrong, merely liability for being negligent) but at the time the US commentators started hounding BP (and, in the case of Obama, specifically calling it "British Petroleum") there was no knowledge of any (alleged) BP negligence. It was a hanging jury.

Do the drilling permissions granted to BP make BP strictly liable for all spillage resulting from the permitted operation? If so BP are liable. Does some other principle of applicable law make BP strictly liable for all spillage resulting from the permitted operation? If so BP are liable.

If not then (a) BP are only liable if THEIR fault can be shown and (b) the lawyers who drafted the drilling licences for the relevant US authority were (probably) negligent. I had a partner once who used to negotiate and draft drilling licences for some small countries not all that far from the affected area in this case.

BP are probably capitalist sociopaths from top to bottom, but that itself does not make them liable, and baying after them because they are an English company not only does not make them liable but is wrong in principle. Their nationality is and shouldbe regarded as a matter of irrelevance. That is not what is happening.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:47 AM

The spill is ultimately BP's fault, because the circumnavigated the inspections. They complied with 6 out of 21, points of safety precautions. Had they done all 21, this would not have happened.

The administration is responsible for the foot dragging, to take care of it. The President should have called for a Federal disaster, early on. He didn't. That is ultimately his fault. Within 24 hours of the spill Norway, offered help, being as they were familiar with those problems up in the North Sea. Obama turned it down. The Netherlands offered help; he turned it down.

Two things that caught my attention, consistent with what I've been a tellin' you. Obama turned International offers of help down, for whatever reason(we can all speculate as to why), but whatever the reason, perhaps he should 'cool it' when he goes abroad and spouts off with apologies, because 'America is arrogant'. He is pretty damn arrogant, himself!

The other thing, that I heard on the 'news' today, and you can all hear it, is after the meeting at the White House, the BP chairman, Carl-Henric Svanberg, comes out, and addresses the people affected by the oil spill, saying he is going to pay for the damages, but uses the term, ' the little people' when referring to them!..PARDON ME???

To me, as I've posted before, that shows a contempt, and a 'looking down your nose' attitude toward folks, who are not one of his 'elite' class....just as the political elite disregard their constituents!

We are getting it from both sides! That being said, the Republicans are making hay of this whole sordid affair..BUT..they still have offered NOTHING for people to vote FOR, other than voting AGAINST the Democrat incumbents...which looks like a slam dunk. THIS IS STUPID!!

It should be obvious to even the most challenged observer, that this doesn't work. We just went through that with Bush..and look what we got!

Okay, enough for my 2 cents worth. I could go on, but some numb-nut will jump up, and frantically foaming at the mouth accuse me of being a bigot-homophobe-hater-of butterflies, and lady bugs!...and whale killer!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 01:54 AM

Richard, in all of the coverage I've seen of this disaster (and I've seen a lot), I have never seen anyone focusing on the idea of BP supposedly being a British company, or being "English". All of the criticism I have seen has been direct their being a huge corporation that is guilty of serial criminal negligence. That's all. Nothing whatever about Britishness or Englishness. Nobody really gives a flying fuck where BP are from. We're too busy worrying about our fucking Gulf of Mexico, and our fucking Mississippi Delta and all of our fucking pristine wetlands that are being fucking destroyed by an evil fucking criminally negligent fucking behemoth of a corporation. You really need to get off of this "bigotry" jag that you're on, because it's making you look a total prat.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:01 AM

"...because they are an English company not only does not make them liable but is wrong in principle. Their nationality is and should be regarded as a matter of irrelevance. That is not what is happening"

But don't you see, Richard, that you are the one who persists in labeling them as English?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:10 AM

And on top of all of that, Richard, on top of all of that, BP are forbidding any of the people whose livelihood they have destroyed, and who are now forced to work for BP cleaning up their mess just in order to survive, they are forbidding these people to wear protective gear or they will be fired. So people are getting sick. Thousands of people are having their health ruined because B fucking P doesn't want to look bad and they don't want anyone to think that their mess is dangerous to people. These people belong in jail. For the rest of their lives. And with you not only defending them, but attacking anyone who is pissed off about this, makes you look like you don't give a flying fuck what happens to any of the people whose lives have been destroyed and will be destroyed by their criminal negligence. You should go to work for BP. You've got what it takes to fit right into their corporate culture.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:11 AM

Even though 'BP' stands for 'British Petroleum', it is a multi-national conglomerate. So let's not be too trigger happy with resentment toward the Brits, nor are they 'bigoted', like some of the mentally challenged on here, like to spew. Also does, Carl-Henric Svanberg, sound like a British name???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:14 AM

Who's showing resentment toward "the Brits", GfS?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:15 AM

...and who's accusing them of bigotry?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:28 AM

Sorry CarolC!! I was going by past posts, on this thread. You've been cool!
Also, "US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)" just shows some irrationality, on either or one side of the pond.

Shit happens, and there is culpability on both sides!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:03 AM

There's definitely culpability on both sides. But to try to characterize people's anger at BP as being bigotry towards the British is just cruel. We're angry at Bush, too, and I'm not particularly happy with Obama right now for letting BP continue to call all of the shots, and most people in the US are always pissed off with Haliburton (who, in this case, appear to have been actually trying to be responsible, as much as it pains me to say it). But calling us bigots because we're also pissed off with BP, and telling us we should be pissed off with everyone else except BP. That's totally out of line, and shows an incredible lack of compassion for the people whose lives are being destroyed, and lack of concern for the damage that's being done to our environment.

And to characterize Obama, who resides in the back pocket of BP, as being too tough on them is just ludicrous.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:58 AM

Fugitive from Sanity, I have carefully explained, above, exactly why BP is an English company.

It takes little or no searching to find many Americans, from Obama down, referring to BP as "British Petroleum" (which is no longer their name) and emphasising BP's headquarters in St James, London (England). Since those things are irrelevant to BP's liability or responsibility (often not the same thing) why are they emphasised save as a matter of prejudice?

The vast preponderance of utterances from the USA focus on BP - and few on Transocean, Halliburton, or Cameron-Cooper, whose products actually failed in use. Why should that be so save as a matter of prejudice.

By all means condemn BP if and to the extent that it is guilty, but not because it is English.

I should appreciate an authority for the allegation that BP is prohibiting cleanup workers from wearing necessary protective clothing. If they were subject to English law in respect of those acts (they are not, since the alleged acts occur outside the jurisdiction) that would itself be an offence under health and safety legislation, regardless of any injury sustained.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:12 AM

Richard, the workers themselves are saying that. And they're out there, working without protective gear, because they are afraid they will lose their jobs if they wear it. That is, when they overcome their fear of speaking out. BP has forced them to sign papers saying they won't talk to anyone about anything, and they have private security guards prevent people from having access to them when they're out in the field (even when they are on break). BP is also preventing people in our media from having access to public areas so they can film what is going on. BP is dictating to the US government and the US government is letting them. BP is functioning as our government.

BP has a track record of these kinds of things. They have the worst safety record by orders of magnitude of any oil company operating in the US. They have already been found guilty of one or more felonies in other cases of criminal negligence. This is their corporate culture. It's what they do. And you are defending it.

AND ONE MORE TIME - WE DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK WHERE THEY COME FROM. WHAT WE CARE ABOUT IS WHAT THEY ARE DOING.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:26 AM

A couple of comments from British newspapers this morning

Quote
They called it the "perp walk" - the moment BP executives marched up to the White House for what the Independent calls a "presidential spanking".

"Perp walk", the Guardian tells us, is American slang for a police parade of suspects - short for "perpetrator".

The paper says BP's $20bn compensation fund and suspension of dividends is President Obama's "pound of flesh".

The Daily Mail says it was a day of BP-bashing by a president who, it claims, "bullied" the firm into capitulation.
Unquote

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:34 AM

That's all bullshit. He's just pretending to be tough on them to diffuse some of the anger of the people of this country. They had to pretend to be on a "perp walk" and to be humbled for the same reason. In reality, he's handling them with kid gloves, and they still call the shots.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:10 AM

""The idea that there is bigotry involved is just plain silly.""

Maybe not exactly Bigotry, Don F.

Call me an old cynic if you like, but it certainly wouldn't do the American oil companies any harm at all if BP were crippled, or better yet, removed.

Everything that has been published since the start of the spill, both by the US Media, and the US government, has had the effect of destroying the share value of a foreign competitor.

Of course, we are constantly being told there is no such agenda, so that must be alright then. After all, US Media and politicians don't lie, do they?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 07:35 AM

You've got to be kidding, Don. Why don't you come on over here, maybe volunteer to help clean up along the Gulf, and you can see for yourself what's going on. And don't bother to wear a respirator. You deserve to be given proof that the fumes from the oil is making people sick. Maybe getting sick yourself is the only you're going to find out.

Every decision that BP has made (and I get most of my information from sources other than the US corporate media), has been specifically for the purpose of mitigating liability rather than mitigating harm, and they are causing far more harm in the process. And the government of this country has assisted them in doing that every step of the way. For instance, environmentalists have consistently said that using large amounts of chemical dispersants would compound the damage caused to the ecosystems in the Gulf rather than mitigating it. But BP prefers to spray the dispersants because their liability is measured by the barrel of oil spilled, and it's a lot harder to measure the amount of oil spilled if it's dispersed into underwater plumes (which BP tried to pretend weren't there until it became impossible to do) than if it's floating on the top where it can be skimmed off and measured. And our government said, fine. And when our government told them they had to switch to a less toxic brand of dispersant, they basically said too bad and kept on using the more toxic kind, which, by the way, is banned in your country. And what did the government of this country do about their refusal? Absolutely nothing. Because BP is allowed to do whatever the hell it wants.

And they're skulking around in the nighttime collecting and disposing of dead animals because it's a felony to kill protected and endangered species. Scientists want to know how many animals are being killed and they want to study the effects of this disaster, but BP is making it very difficult for them to do that, and all because it wants to mitigate its liability.

These are scientists and environmentalists who are saying these things.

And Riki Ott, a marine toxicologist who has nothing whatever to do with competing oil companies, and whose entire concern is the welfare of the people of the Gulf and the environment there, since her business as a fisherman in Alaska was destroyed by the Exxon Valdes spill, is saying all of the same things I have reported here.

You guys really are showing yourselves to be utterly lacking in compassion, and you really have no idea what you're talking about.
Here you go, Richard. Video evidence about BP not allowing the workers to wear protective gear...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/#37744181

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:20 AM

Here's Riki Ott talking about the Exxon Valdez...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84W5kaz4AxA


Here's Riki Ott talking about the disaster in the Gulf...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wrQCY76fps

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: artbrooks
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 08:23 AM

AP article on protective equipment

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:07 PM

Code Pink to the rescue

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:19 PM

Call me an old cynic if you like, but it certainly wouldn't do the American oil companies any harm at all if BP were crippled, or better yet, removed....

Yeah, you know that Warren Report was a crock, too, & you do realize the Moon Landing was faked in a studio in Cincinnati.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:25 PM

Gee, why should people be mad at BP except that they hate the English? Hmm. Couldn't have anything to do with the 40k barrels of oil (I think that's the latest estimate--correct me if I'm wrong) pumping into the Gulf of Mexico and ultimately coming to shore on American shores? Nah, that couldn't be it. It must be national chauvinism.

Listen to yourself!

Why would people say "British Petroleum" if they weren't spiteful of the British? Hmm. Couldn't be because that was the name of the company for time immemorial, and they got used to saying it and weren't aware of hte name change, and have a hard time remembering the name change anyway because once you get into the habit of using a certain term it's bloody hard to get back out of it? Nah, that couldn't be it. It must be natural chauvinism.

Holy fucking shit. Do you have two brain cells to rub together?

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:51 PM

Is that meant to be funny Carol. If so it wasn't. If it is mean't to be real, then where is the evidence from this woman to support the gas coming out of her mouth.

You americans are just good at mouthing off when things don't go right for you and very good at blaming everybody else.

I think it's a disaster and am really sad about it all. However all this American hatred to BP is not solving the problem.

Your Government are full of gas and only lining their pockets for the election or whatever is coming up.

Give you mouths a rest and let BP get on with it and support them and help them to get it sorted.

What the hell are you going to do if BP tell you to f*** off and walk away from it. What will you do then.

Has USA put right everything you did in Iraq. The devestation that you did based on lies was an absolute catastrophy. How you can hold your heads up, I don't know. I will never forgive America for drawing Britain into agreeing to help you. Both leaders should face war criminal charges.
America should be paying billions to put right what they did in Iraq.
Funny that, I bet you don't feel it's your responsibilty, do you.

I am out of here.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:55 PM

"I will never forgive America for drawing Britain into agreeing to help you."

Aw, poor baby Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 02:59 PM

Tony Hayward used the old "I don't know" and the "investigation is incomplete" defense before the Congressional Committee today. This is 59 days after the blowout and the Board doesn't have the information? Nonsense, of course.

The dispersant used by BP may cause as much damage as the crude oil itself.
I cited this paper in the other thread, "Acute Aquatic Toxicity of Three Corexit Products: An Overview" by researchers with Exxon Biomedical Sciences, Inc.
The dispersants are the most toxic tested by the researchers.

Acute Toxicity

Exxon set up this company at arms-length so that its research would not be hindered by main company management or company association.
It is one of the reasons Exxon had only one culpable infraction and BP had many hundreds.

I understand that Chevron does much the same by placing research funds into arms-length programs at various universities; their violations have been few as well.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:04 PM

Arthritis, if we didn't laugh, we would have to cry. And spare the that "you Americans" bullshit. I'm as critical of my country and my government as anyone else, and more than most (as my previous posts demonstrate). But you are apparently unable tolerate any criticism of anything even remotely British. I think that makes you the bigot.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:07 PM

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/55189


The Gulf of Mexico BP Oil Spill is the worst natural disaster in US history and the hurt is coming down on British Petroleum (BP) for their negligence and the damages they have caused… or so we thought.

Today, the White House announced that BP has agreed to put $20 Billion in a fund to pay for damages and claims due to this disaster. This comes a day after new estimates place the amount of oil spilling into the Gulf per day at 40,000 – 60,000 barrels. Since the estimates and math for this fiasco haven't been adding up from the start, let's compare this oil spill to a previous spill, The Exxon Valdez and see how we're doing, shall we?

Exxon Valdez Oil Spill:
- Year: 1989
- Barrels Spilled: 250,000
- Cost of clean-up: $8.6 Billion ($14.69 Billion in 2010 dollars)

    * $2.5 Billion in allocated funds by Exxon for clean-up
    * $5 Billion charged in punitive damages*
    * $1.1 Billion in other settlements

*Exxon has appealled this ruling up through 2008 and the supreme court reduced this settlement value numerous times. The initial 1994 ruling also lead to the first ever modern day credit default swap, when Exxon obtained a $4.6 Billion line of credit from J.P. Morgan & Co. Ironic that this disaster was something that helped lead to our recent financial disaster.

BP Deepwater Horizon Oil Rig Explosion/Spill:
- Year: 2010
- Barrels Spilled: 2.32 Million – 3.48 Million (As of 58 days into spill)
- Cost to pay for clean-up: $20 Billion (As of June 16th, 2010)

As stated above, the 2010 value of Exxon's initial agreed cost to clean-up the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill would be $14.69 Billion. Let's work on some simple math here:

In 2010 Dollars:
- Clean-up/payment in damages for 250,000 barrels of oil = $14.69 Billion
- As of today, as much as 3.48 million barrels of oil have spilled into the Gulf of Mexico
- That means the BP Gulf Oil Spill is 13.92 times LARGER than the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill
- Estimated cost to clean-up/pay for damages: 13.92 x $14.69 Billion = $204 Billion

Hmmm, I'd say BP is getting quite a deal, wouldn't you? And one may wonder how they were able to bridge this gap between $204 Billion and $20 Billion. How about another history lesson and comparison to the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill? As stated above, Exxon appealed the ruling of their having to pay $5 Billion in punitive damages up through 2008. And the result: In 2008, the Supreme Courts ruled 5-3 that Exxon is to pay no more than $507.5 Million in punitive damages for the Exxon Valdez Oil Spill.

The original ruling was that Exxon was to pay ~$5 Billion, they actually ended paying out closer to ~$500 Million. Roughly 10%. BP's current expected liability, if the amount going into escrow is any indicator, is evidently ~$20 Billion. Whereas (asssuming a linear projection) their actual liability should be closer to ~$200 Billion. Oh look, there's that 10% again. Thus, we bridge the gap.

One can't help but wonder if the US Govenrment isn't just pricing a string of BP legal victories through our court system into the total going into escrow. Considering the pathetic condition of the US courts ability to hold corporate malfactors accountable, this is probably a shrewd decision. But, what if BP loses? Wait, wait… who are we kidding? I'm sure $20 Billion will be just right.

Subject: RE: BS: US bigots attack British Company (oil spill)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:25 PM

Stop having a go at BP them and get with them to hopefully sort things out as quick as possible.

You just keep posting criticism after criticism on BP. Get the thing sorted then start sorting out who is to blame. Obama does not help the situation one little bit.

Yes BP has f***** up, but your incessant baying is not helping the situation.

As I said you guys have a lot to answer for all the wrongs you have done around the world.