BS: Justice For England, English protest songs

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:40 AM

Omigod, fucking SoH again.
Roots is a socially divisive rant and it was quite amusing when Mr Knighley struggled to defend his derorgatory reference to 'estuary English' on Radio Essex.
Outta here.

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:39 AM

but why stop at the borders and resent those who live across them?


Has anyone remotely suggested that there is any resentment for other Btitons? I think not. I am more than happy for the other nations to get free prescriptions, higher education etc. and good luck to them. All I need to see is a decent valid argument as to why the English should not benefit as well.

Dave

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:37 AM

"heed is so very concerned about 'England', perhaps s/he might pay more attention to its language, orthography and syntax."

Would love to, but sadly i'm a product of thatcher's britain. And if my english skills are poor, why of earth does that not qualify from commenting on cetian issues? I see! You are arguing that because my english may be poor i'm not qualified to talk about "england". That sound liks facism to me. You nasty facist you! ;0)

On a more serious note, i agree that English trad (and any folk music) can be in danger of being mis appropriated by the far right. But surely it can be used for political protest songs. Didn't the proclaimers write a protest song about being ruled by england? is that okay? Or is that fascist? Didn't Chumbawamba cover english protest songs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Rebel_Songs_1381-1984 .Why can't they be used to question the west lothion question?

Look, maybe i'm being a little niave, and maybe i should have separated the two subjects of the demo and the music. I appologise for this. But the question remains. Are such issues as the west lothina question, barnett formula, coming into folk music? And i suppose we should extend that by saying are they relevant subjects?

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:36 AM

still think we're "right wing"?

Yes.
And I think that this forum is no place to try and advertise it.
John Barden, you're being taken in bigtime.
No, there's nothing at all wrong with loving your country but why stop at the borders and resent those who live across them?
I'm for the preservation and extension of democratic rights to everyone on Both Sides Of The Tweed, actually.
And totally against the hijacking of English trad as a symbol of racial superiority.

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:33 AM

Oh - and I would recommend Show of Hands "Roots" for an anthem but I suspect the Countess will have something to say about that as well. But to try and get this online as a music thread here are the words anyway:-P

All away boys, let them go,
All in the wind and the rain and snow.
We've lost more than we'll ever know,
On the rocky shores of England.

Now it's been 25 years or more,
I've roamed this land from shore to shore.
From Tyne to Tame, or Severn to Thames,
From Moor to Vale, from Peak to Fen.
Played in cafes, and pubs and bars,
I've stood in the street with my own guitar.
But I'd be richer than all the rest,
If I had a pound for each request,
For "Duelling Banjos", "American Pie" -- it's enough to make you cry.
"Rule Britannia", or "Swing Lo",
Are they the only songs we English know?

Seed, bud, flower, fruit,
They're never gonna grow without their roots.
Branch, stem, shoots.
They need roots!

All away boys, let them go,
On the rocky shores of England.

After the speeches when the cake's been cut, the disco's over and the bar is shut.
At Christening, Birthday, Wedding or Wake,
What can we sing until the morning breaks?
When the Indian-Asians, Afro-Kelts -- it's in their blood below the belt.
They're playing and dancing all night long,
So what've they got right that we've got wrong?

Seed, bud, flower, fruit,
Never gonna grow without their roots.
Branch, stem, shoots.
We need roots!

And all away boys, let them go,
All in the wind and the rain and snow.
We've lost more than we'll ever know,
On the rocky shores of England.

All away boys, let them go,
All in the wind and the rain and snow.
We've lost more than we'll ever know,
On the rocky shores of England.

We need roots!

And the minister said his vision of hell is 3 folk singers in a pub near Wells.
Well I've got a vision of urban sprawl.
It's pubs where no one ever sings at all.
And everyone stares at a great big screen,
Overpaid soccer stars, prancing teens,
Australian soap, American rap, Estuary English, baseball caps.
And we learn to be ashamed before we walk,
Of the way we look and the way we talk.
Without our stories, or our songs,
How will we know where we come from?
I've lost St George in the Union Jack,
It's my flag too and I want it back!

Seed, bud, flower, fruit,
Never gonna grow without their roots.
Branch, stem, shoots.
We need roots!

And all away boys, let them go,
All in the wind and the rain and snow.
We've lost more than we'll ever know,
On the rocky shores of England.

All away boys, let them go,
All in the wind and the rain and snow.
We've lost more than we'll ever know,
On the rocky shores of England.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:27 AM

I don't see anything wrong with the site or the idea but I am prepared to be educated. What is wrong with a little bit of English 'nationalism' or national pride as long as it isn't exclusionist? The Irish, Scots and Welsh all have there own identity and governance - why not the English? Can anyone address the issues brought up by heed in the first post with sensible arguments as to why the English people are being treated differently to the other members of the union? And before I am accused of being a right wing xenophobic nutter I can assure you that nothing is further from the truth! Well, maybe the nutter bit. No-one who wants to introduce Morris dancing as a national pastime can be quite right in the head...

Cheers

Dave.

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: The Barden of England
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:26 AM

I see that Countess Richard is guilty of the thing she constantly accuses others of not doing. I just hope she takes her own advice and actually reads the wording on the site. I can see nothing xenophobic in there, just asking for the same rights as others in the United Kingdon have. I wish we had the same laws as Scotland regarding live music for example. And before you go off on one Countess Richard I'm not xenophobic (I lived abroad happily for 4 years, and not in some British enclave), have no prejudice regarding race, creed or colour, and see legal immigrants to this country as a welcome addition. I hate the BNP and all it stands for, and as has been said before 'It's my flag and I want it back'. The Scots, Irish and Welsh proudly wave theirs, so why shouldn't I, especially on St. Georges day.
John Barden

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:20 AM

If Guest: heed is so very concerned about 'England', perhaps s/he might pay more attention to its language, orthography and syntax.
I am sure most Mudcat posters are fully aware of the implications of the West Lothian question but fail to see any possible relevance to music.
German traditional music, used by the Nazis for such vile purposes, has yet to recover and re-emerge from university music departments.
This is no more than yet another attempt to draw in English trad into a narrow, fascist cesspit.
Don't let it. Music is universal and national descriptions are purely geographical, not an excuse for division on nationalistic lines.
This thread has no place in a music forum.

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: GUEST,heed
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:07 AM

from the campaign for an english parlaiments web site:

"The people of England include everyone for whom England is both their home and future, irrespective of ethnic origin, religion and culture. For our nation our own parliament is our constitutional right"

re: http://www.thecep.org.uk/

still think we're "right wing"?

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: GUEST,heed
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 05:02 AM

I'm afraid it's not a site for a bunch of right-wing nutters. I as a member of the Campaign for an English Parlaiment am going to the march purely to ask for the same rights as scotland: a parlaiment! I suggest you read a bit more deeply. I'm not a member of the freedom association, but was a memebr of the labour party. Sadly you attitude is just what many of us at the Campaign for an English Parliamnet loath: People who see those campaigning for the the same right as Scotland as xenophobic. This subject has received much more considered attention from the national press. Many of who see the benefits for a national paliament for england . Like i said do your research more thouroughly and don't give in in to knee jerk reactions. before you replay perhaps you had better reseach the barnett formula and the west lothian question. They were even mentioned on the bbc news last night!

Subject: RE: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:47 AM

What a whingeing, divisive, xenophobic, site.
Scant surprise then that it's supported by that bunch of right-wing nutters, The 'Freedom' Association.
Personally, I resent strongly this latest attempt to hijack English traditional music for such low-down, divide-and-rule purposes.
Can some Joe clone please close the thread now before any benighted reader actually believes it?

Subject: JusticeForEngland, English protest songs
From: GUEST,Heed
Date: 27 Apr 07 - 04:29 AM

There is a demonstration that is taking place in Central London on May the 1st that is of striking significance in England. A group of English men and women have got together to protest against the union of Britain. Their discontent covers many issues, but they are an outward display of the simmering discontent from more and more English people over this government and it's perceived disregard of the English. I firstly want to shamelessly plug this demonstration and wonder whether there are any sympathisers here (or not for that matter), and, perhaps more relevantly, ask whether this discontent is beginning to appear in the folk songs of England, whether you agree with it or not. Is anybody writing about any of the following?

- West Lothian question (aka denying democracy and self determination to the English, but allowing it for the other home nations).
- Cancer drugs being denied the English.
- The Barnett formula.
- English having to pay for prescription charges.
- English students having to pay for student top up fees.
- English schools having to teach Britishness lessons, when other nations schools do not.
- England being split up into regions.
- A Scottish constituency soon-to-be pm that decides English only legislation, but can't decide Scottish policy because it is handled by the Scottish parliament.
- Ditto for ministries like health and education.
- Being told that the English don't exist as a nation.

If you are interested in the demonstration taking place then you can view more details here:

http://www.justiceforengland.com/may_march.htm

Thank you.