BS: Breast feeding in public

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Bee
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:49 AM

Well, if you aren't a troll, "Bob", what exactly is the disgusting part? How is it immoral? Most humans are aware that breasts are functional structures for feeding babies. Babies have to be fed frequently throughout the day. Public bathrooms are unsanitary for that purpose. Most women feed their babies discreetly (assuming the sight of a breast revolts you). It's hard not to, since the nipple's mostly in the baby's mouth and the rest of the breast is as covered as anyone's breast in a modern bathing suit is, if not more so. Most women don't particularly want their milk filled breasts stared at, and most people aren't interested in staring.

C'mon, give us your reasons.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: MMario
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 11:51 AM

eanjay - I don't think any woman should be forced to breastfeed in public if she doesn't wish to do so; but I also don't think that a woman should be forced to isolate herself when doing so.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:09 PM

Think about it....there are 2 basic opinions here: those who see no problem with the practice, and those who are embarrassed and uncomfortable.....so the REAL issue comes down to whether that embarrassed minority should be able to curtail the freedom and convenience of mothers to soothe their delicate psyches.

This is the issue with many folks who are 'conservative' about issues.....part of their notion of 'correctness' is to legislate or harass others into, if not agreeing, behaving to suit their conservative views.

Answer: Leave Mom & baby alone and look somewhere else.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Rog Peek
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:20 PM

BillD
Could we see details of the results of this extensive suvey on which you base your premise that the objectors are in the minority, or are you suggesting that this post is representative of the whole population?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Metchosin
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:22 PM

What's "new woman" about breast feeding in public? LOL I was doing it 30 years ago, like countless generations of women before me......I believe the Victorians were a slight aberation in human history.

How you do fare with the new bung up your ass when your out and about, guest Bob? Wouldn't want to let one of those to slip by in public, would you?......odd....haven't seen any adverts for them though......

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:29 PM

Well, Rog....how much time do you have? I have observed the phenomenon for about 53 years...(since the birth of my first child), and that has been my experience ever since...but also, in THIS discussion, in THIS thread, it seems that the protesters are also in the minority.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:41 PM

My wife did breastfeed yes. She did it in the privacy of our home. Clearly I belong to an older generation who believes that there are some functions others don't need exposed to.

Most of you have made a judgement on me because of my views, that's fine, it still won't change them.

Yes motherhood and breast feeding in a natural thing. I am sorry if I find society changing and find some things unacceptable.

I was out for a meal with my daughter and son in law last Friday evening when a young lady sitting with her partner fed her child at the next table. She really made such an issue of it. She was loud, sat smiling at those like myself who deemed it inappropriate and made no effort to cover herself (both breasts were exposed). The proud father sat smiling and kept placing his head to one side and saying silly stupid things followed by "ah".


If you find my views wrong, that is entirely up to you. I also find young women who walk around shopping malls with a cut away top on exposing her naked tummy disgusting too, there have a go at me again for it.

If I belong to a generation that most of you find prudish, God save us from what your generation is going to find socially acceptable next.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:48 PM

Bob, the generation before yours would have thought you lacked morals as well for your loose lifestyle. I bet you wear only swim trunks at the beach and your wife probably has worn a skirt in her lifetime. Those were deemed unacceptable in the past.

Whether we think you are a prude or disagree with your views really does not matter. Lifestyles change. As you can see, most people disagree with your position and it is doubtful that we will ever go back to those times.

Life goes on, with or without your consent.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: MMario
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:48 PM

I'm just curious as to *WHICH* generation you belong to, Bob?

Because historically there is only a very short period of time when breast feeding in public has *not* been acceptable and that only in *some*, primarily Anglocentric societies.

It was considered "lower class" for a slightly longer period of time; but while the "gentry" might not breastfeed in public the wetnurses would.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:52 PM

...... and those who are embarrassed and uncomfortable.....so the REAL issue comes down to whether that embarrassed minority should be able to curtail the freedom and .........

Just so long as people remember that not everybody who feels uncomfortable about doing it themselves objects to other people doing it.

......... She really made such an issue of it. She was loud, sat smiling at those like myself who deemed it inappropriate and made no effort to cover herself (both breasts were exposed).......

It is the people who are "in your face" when they do it that really puts people off.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:52 PM

And many of the 'gentry' used the services of wet nurses.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Metchosin
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:53 PM

A well made burka would soon solve all distress with the public display of the female form in all its incantations. Oooh! oooh! I can still see her eyes.....Keep 'er confined! That will sort it!

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: MMario
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 12:55 PM

I suspect the "in your face" people will always find *something* to be "in your face" about, such as the Vegans that will walk into a SteakHouse and complain (loudly) they can't get a meal that suits them.

*THAT* is another issue entirely.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:01 PM

I think this must be a very anglo and possibly even more american than anywhere else sort of issue. I've never heard anyone making a fuss about this on the continent, in the same way as topless sunbathing on the beach etc is rarely an issue for those that want to do it. In America apparently people get prosecuted for topless sunbathing. Bizarre. Aren't people obsessing a little bit about breasts? I mean they're lovely, don't get me wrong but should there really be that much fuss about them?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:05 PM

Nothing "digusting" or "distasteful" about it at all. This is no longer the Victorian Age when people put skirts on piano legs because they were, after all, "legs," and some people might find that prurient.

The times they are a-changin', Bob. Get over it!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:10 PM

By the way, Bob, if seeing a woman breast-feeding her baby is so disturbing and disgusting, then tell me:   why do you find so many paintings and other depictions of the Madonna breast-feeding the baby Jesus? For centuries, it has been one of the major subjects for artists painting religious themes.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:24 PM

Bardan, I don't think this reaction against breast feeding is coming from the United States. My guess is that Bob is from the UK.   Breast feeding in public is not illegal in any state, as far as I know. Please correct me if I am wrong. People have come to accept it around here. A quick search shows that this has been a recent story in the UK and I think they may actually be behind the curve on this one.

Topless sunbathing is gaining here too.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:26 PM

So the story finally comes out. The breast-feeding bigot met an exhibitionist twit. And the result is a thread at Mudcat in which all nursing mothers are condemned to the loo to nurse. Give me a break, Bob! You go sit in the bathroom next time you see a nursing mother, wait until she finishes. See how you like it.

Most women are discreet about nursing, they don't let both breasts hang out in public. To condemn the practice because one woman didn't have a grasp of how it works is ludicrous. I probably would have spoken to her about the practice and helped her figure out a more discreet way to nurse in public. You'd be surprised how grateful new mothers are when someone offers kind assistance.

Unfortunately, women in our society suffered a disconnect at the time that baby bottles came into full production, and there are women in this generation still who don't know how to do it. Maybe this woman was a bottle baby who now with her own baby is overshooting the mark as far as how much to expose. Frankly, having both breasts out is silly, the one not being nursed at will dribble. Gently pressing a forearm on the breast no in use, while it is covered, is the common practice.

Nursing is one of the most satisfying exchanges IN THE WORLD between mother and child. It is a beautiful act, when you have the opportunity to glimpse it. Notice how the child immediately quiets, and almost purrs in pleasure, and watch the eye contact between mother and child.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:27 PM

I think you have a very good point, Bardan...some people ARE "obsessing a little bit about breasts". Some have grown to consider them as intimate body parts relating to sexuality, and can't do the 'mind shift' to deal with them as milk glands for babies. I have trained myself to shift back & forth, as the situation demands.
   If a young woman in a bikini accidently loses her top, it affects me one way...if she slips one side down to feed her baby, it is totally different. It is not even necessary for a baby to be involved...once, at a folk festival, (in the campground area) I was talking to 'young' lady who was obviously a free-spirit type. She decided she needed a different blouse, and with barely a "hope you don't mind", she stripped off her shirt and put on another one. For about 4.5 seconds her breasts were exposed...and I just mentally shrugged. I was mildly surprised, but neither offended nor excited, as she was making no attempt to do either one.

It IS important to work it out in your own head, and not expect some objective standard to exist to control all situations.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:27 PM

I think the deal is that women should do what they can to be discreet..and most do..but I have seen the exhibitionist ones and it is uncomfortable for others...if you are in a restaurant you can turn your chair somewhat and drape yourself with a shawl or baby blanket. It is not a situation where someone needs to forego all modesty when you are with strangers...if it is your own circle of friends do whatever...I think if people know the woman is making a reasonable effort..which gets harder as the kid gets older and squirmier..they appreciate it. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Janie
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:33 PM

I was a nursing mother when my 93 year old grandmother died. During the visitation time at the funeral home, I spent about 20 minutes sitting in a secluded alcove to breastfeed my 2 month old infant. During that 20 minute period a number of elderly to ancient people, male and female alike, sought me out to have a chat. They found me by asking my mother where I was. She said, "Over there, she's nursing." I don't think it is a generational issue.

Any kind of behavior or activity can be carried out in an obnoxious manner. That doesn't necessarily make the activity itself innately obnoxious or offensive. I have found myself thoroughly disqusted by the way some people eat. That doesn't warrant me wanting to see eating in public banned.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:33 PM

To me this is much ado about nothing. Bill D hit it on the head.

Bob, see a therapist to deal with your "Mother" issues. There is nothing more beautiful to see than a Mother connecting with her child in this way. Maggie had that part dead on.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:33 PM

Has anyone written any decent songs about this?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 01:54 PM

I suppose that would be different from INdecent songs, huh, Mick?

...and yeah...there is a fine line between just not trying to 'cover up' and being obviously exhibitionist about it. But the process OF making extra effort to hide the feeding is also calling attention to it. Some mothers are as conflicted about it as some men, I suppose.

My final opinion...if it ain't against the law, ignore it.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Scoville
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 02:53 PM

Most women just throw a shawl or baby blanket over the process and get on with business. They should definitely NOT have to do this in the bathroom. How would you like to eat your lunch in the bathroom? Ugh.

Bob, get a life. And some therapy.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: gnu
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 03:07 PM

Bob said, "Well having read your opinions I think it's fair to say, Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one."

True Bob. In your case, that makes two.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Rog Peek
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 04:32 PM

Anecdotal then BillD?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:18 PM

Well, at least the other side of the story is out, and the thread got funny. Erm, SRS/Maggie....'dribble'? DRIBBLE? I didn't dribble, I shot baskets! From the outside circle! If I'd have bared both like that, Bob probably would have gotten a mouthful! How's THAT for offensive?

I do agree that the woman in question was OTT with that behaviour.

I was stewarding at a festival once when our daughter was an infant. I took her into the staff trailer/caravan to feed her. I was alone with her, but I still covered my shoulder with the blanket. 4 older men came in for coffee and saw her feet sticking out. One said, OH A BABY! and whipped back the blanket to see the baby....you never saw so many men turn so many colours in your life. He could not apologize enough, and I couldn't stop laughing. Kate never missed a suck.

Fellas, never ever ever whip back the blankie to see the cute little baby. Well, I guess you could......Hail Caesar, we who are about to die salute you. Not many women would think it was funny like I did.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:30 PM

Bob:

It's not "your generation"; it's your degree of willingness to face calmly and without reaction what is going on around you.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:45 PM

anecdotal? What?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: skipy
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 05:50 PM

For goodness sake, a hungry baby is a hungry baby, we are mammals, it's what we do, so lets do it.
Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Nick E
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:03 PM

To parapharase a line from When Harry Met Saly....
I'll Have What He's Having

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sabine
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:05 PM

ridiculous, sorry.
I am following the discussion on tv and newspapers and can only shake my head.
maybe it's just me but I really cannot understand why it should be healthy to fill your babies with chemical stuff and later on freak out over artificial colours in sweeties.

a lot of things concerning nursing and parenting and childcare here in Britain are a contradiction in terms.

I never liked and still don't like women who feel the need to expose themselves or their breasts in public while breastfeeding. There is def. no need to do so. This also does not have anything to do with "fighting for their rights". Excuse me, this is the 21st century we are living in the "fighting for rights" should belong to the past.

I sometimes find the behaviour of some guys in public much more disgusting like a breastfeeding mother.
On the one minute they are scratching their privates, then wiping their nose and then offering you the same hand to say hello.
Thanks a lot...

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sabine
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:07 PM

sorry...

"disgusting THAN a breastfeeding mother"
not "like"

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:35 PM

Oh right! It's a British thing is it? Have to admit I haven't watched the news recently or anything. I thought breastfeeding was fine in Britain though. Wasn't there a female MP a while back who was doing it at westminister?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:39 PM

Oh no...tell me she didn't actually DO IT at a dog show???? Noooooo, dogs aren't that disgusting.






(Westminster Dog Show...the 'Crufts' of the US)

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:49 PM

No as in the houses of parliament. (Hence MP.) Something I very vaguely remember though. I wouldn't be able to give chapter and verse stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Rockhen
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 06:56 PM

If you don't breastfeed your baby in public, for the first year of its life, you can end up having to spend an awful lot of time, maybe even half of your baby's time awake, in what ever quiet spot is available in the place you happen to be, often the loo. Tiny babies feed a lot and often take ages. I do agree, however, that a few women are a bit OTT when they feed their babies. Perhaps it may be that they are still getting used to it as it can take a while to figure the technique out for mum and baby. I think there are just one or two, who do, as eanjay put it, 'make a meal of it', for attention, but I don't think there are many.
I never noticed anyone appearing upset when I used to feed my kids, I don't think people could tell because it is possible to be discrete. You could say, why should women bother about being discrete, but I guess our current society has made it so that it is just easier and less hassle, to feed quietly and without drawing too much attention to yourself. Whether, or not, this thread is just meant to provoke heated debate, I would always support anyone trying to breastfeed, (lol, just realised I didn't mean it quite like that...!)as it is not always easy, or even possible, for everyone but is, in my opinion,worth doing. Go for it, ladies! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:11 PM

So much for the freedom of speech and opinion.

I brought a viewpoint to the forum for open discussion and the level of insults and lack of intelligent replies says a lot more amount certain individuals here than it does about me.

Regarding Mick's advice on seeking therapy, I don't really feel that need Mick, do you ? I know who I am and don't go through life living an identity or nationality crisis.

As for gnu's remark. After reading through some of your previous posts here and the responses to them from other members, I feel you certainly are in a prime reflective position to speak on this subject.

Scoville, most posters tend to use original comments of their own here, you should give it consideration.

As for the tacky remarks made by some others, well what do you expect from a pig but a grunt.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Rowan
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 07:31 PM

A few years ago a newly elected MP in the Victorian parliament had a new babe and needed to breastfeed. Not wanting to absent herself from the important business of the moment (whether parliamentary or infant-directed) she breastfed (discreetly) in the House. Parliament is a very male-dominated domain and there were (and still are) unreconstructed anachronisms like Bob in abundance, so the uproar was intense. Parliament got fitted with nappy-changing rooms and expressing facilities and everyone settled done to a much more mature set of behaviours.

Having been the partner of a shy woman, I know the thoughts that go through such women's minds about breastfeeding in public, but she always managed it comfortably for all concerned and nobody objected. I came to the opinion (yes Bob, I too have one, and surmise from your spelling of arsehole that you're not from the continent between the Atlantic and Pacific) that many men are quite self-centred in their view of breasts. Pun intended. They seem to have the notion that the only purpose of breasts is to titillate males and react according to their notion of the appropriateness of such titllation.

They seem to not understand that the primary function of mammaries in mammals is to nurture the young and that any other function is secondary. And although I have been very active in promulgating women's rights and was a dab hand at changing nappies (better than my partner, in fact) I don't regard myself as henpecked.

And if I can find it easy to appreciate the semiotics but ignore the content of ads for cars, alcohol and other supposedly male-oriented things I just as easily do the same for women's sanitary products. But my adolescent daughters might have a different appreciation.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: frogprince
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 08:28 PM

"Has anyone written any decent songs about this?" -Mick

I haven't written any songs primarily about it, but I've written one that mentions it. The few who have heard it seem to consider it a "decent" song, whether or not a great one.
                            Dean

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:18 PM

AND IF you are thinking it is OK to feed babies soy formula, read the research..unless they are in dire straits, all sorts of other solutions have been tried (assuming there is a feeding problem of some sort..for heavens sakes don't do it out of philosophy)...bad stuff. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:24 PM

I find picking your nose in public, disgusting, but people still do it.

If the world conformed to everyone's opinion of what is disgusting, we would live in a very sterile world.

Get over it Bob, society doesn't care what you think. Its your problem. Deal with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:34 PM

BOB-you are a big moany, and probubly really old, (about 70 or 80 or something), waht your prblum then, stupif?

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: bobad
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 09:38 PM

My feeling is that breasts should be fed whenever they are hungry no matter where they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:10 PM

'Mammaries in mammals'. Ya gotta love it. We ain't called mammals for nuttin honey.

Yea, Bob, you expressed an opinion. Quite unfortunately you didn't 'tell your tale' of both breasts exposed quite soon enough.

Babies don't exactly desire to feed on anyone's schedule, let alone YOURS. So, you go right ahead and keep your wife home and in seclusion for a year or so. No dinners out, gods forbid, NO bottles. We wouldn't want your wife to actually have to express herself, would we?

Go sit on a toilet lid in a stinky loo for an hour. Eat with one hand while you are doing that. Oh, and please close the door to the cubicle too.

I don't want to see your nipples on the beach either. Nipples and pectorals are just soooo offensive.

Get a ******* life. This is my elbow, it does this. This is my breast it does this. Wanna see my ankle too? Skin is as skin does.

Just who the HELL is this Bob person?

Sorcha, in SE Wyoming, US. Google Sorcha niGhlais. That will be me.

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:13 PM

Dammit, Sorch, I went and googled it and there were no pictures of your breasts being fed. What a friggin sham!!!!

I'll get me aul cap and the wellies,

Mick, tongue planted firmly in cheek

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:27 PM

I am not usually upset by a woman nursing in public however I went ballistic when a smiling Earth Mother grinned at me at a stop light. She was nursing while driving. Even a slight tap from behind could have crushed that child against the steering wheel.
Inexcusably stupid!

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 07 - 10:34 PM

Mary, m'love, that isn't about breast feeding, that is about being just an idiot.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Breast feeding in public
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Jun 07 - 12:07 AM

Aw Mick, I'm so sorry, I guess I should remedy that forthwith, but my mammaries no longer function as teats. The youngest is 22. Guess you'll just have to imagine.....LOLOLOL