BS: Banks going bust.

Subject: BS: Banks going bust.
From: GUEST,Financial Ignoramus.
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 10:53 AM

Okay, we hear about the Northern Rock Building Society (or is it a Bank?) being in some kind of financial straits and being "bailed out" by a loan from the Bank of England. My questions arise from this. If a Bank or similar institution does go bust, do those people who have savings with it, or pension schemes dependent upon it, lose everything, or a proportion of what they had/ought to get? I think there have been some cases of this happening. Now, what about the other side of the coin; the people who have been lent money by such an institution. If it goes bust, what about the money they owe? Are they still followed up for it, or do they manage to get out of their obligations in the same way as the Bank would with (see above)? I'll bet they are followed up; other money-making concerns will seek out such debtors, rather like a Heavy "buying the debt" from a small-time loan shark. Any observartions?

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: GUEST,Same ignoramus
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 10:54 AM

Delete a "with" from above.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 11:50 AM

The way it works in the states is, if you're well fixed the federal government will eventually bail you out and tax the working poor to found the bail out. I don't know how things work in the UK.

             When a bank gets into trouble, for whatever reason, some kind of arrangement is normally set up--sometimes it involves governmental agencies, sometimes not--for said bank to be taken over by another bank. If they didn't do that, as you point out, there would be nobody to pursue the borrowers.

             The government is usually motivated to get every last dime they can from the borrowers, so they don't have to come up with as much to bail out the gamblers who took the bank over the cliff in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 12:09 PM

This particular society is owed a very large amount of money in repayments on loans it has already made, and was merely short of cash to make new loans or to proceed with loans already agreed.
It is not going to go bust, it MAY end up being taken over by another bank/building society, because it expanded too quickly, and the present management is suspect.
The effect of the people rushing to withdraw their money only makes this inevitable, and if it was in such dire straits, how is it able to issue cheques for the money to these people with the Gadarene tendencies, flocking to withdraw all?
Had I the cash to spare, I would be investing in their shares, as whatever happens by way of takeover or eventual recovery, I would make a profit eventually.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 04:43 PM

I am seriously considering it for Monday. From some 730+ a month ago and 640 last Wednesday, they dropped to 438 on Friday. They have a healthy order book, as stated by the FSA and the Treasury Thursday evening. I reckon they'd be up to at least 550 by spring; that would be a solid 25% in 6 months. Yes, I think I might want some of that.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: kendall
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 05:11 PM

Speaking of such fiascos, what ever happened to Neil Bush?

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 05:15 PM

They seem to keep him hidden pretty well.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 05:21 PM

They really needed James Stewart doing his stuff from It's a Wonderful Life when there was a run on the building society...

Subject: northern rock
From: GUEST,albert
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 05:41 PM

Will the near collapse of Northern Rock lead to the collapse of other banks in Britain?
Albert

Subject: RE: northern rock
From: Hamish
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 06:28 PM

Nope. Good time to buy their shares, I'd say.

--
Hamish

Subject: RE: northern rock
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 06:35 PM

See also the BS: thread below - join the list of 'Catters wanting to invest in shares on Monday!

Subject: RE: northern rock
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 06:37 PM

Hey Albert................where did you get near collapse? Big liquidity issue for sure but collapse? Don't think so............I'm with Hamish, hey Hamish lend me a few quid 'til my postal order arrives.

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 07:13 PM

Thanks, Kevin, that's just what I thought!

Northern Rock aren't actually going bust yet, are they?

Kitty

Subject: RE: northern rock
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Sep 07 - 07:51 PM

Well, this looks like a music thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Sep 07 - 12:06 AM

bloody hell! I thought it was something serious.
http://www.marstons.co.uk/brands/bankss.asp

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: BusyBee Paul
Date: 16 Sep 07 - 05:09 AM

Nice one Al!

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Sep 07 - 11:04 AM

Northern Rock are merely the latest victims of an irresponsible, malicious media, who have forgotten the principles of reporting the news, and are busily engaged in manipulating same.

It is a crying shame that there are so many gullible idiots who fall for these stories, and rush to save their (totally unendangered) assets.

It completes the Media's self fulfilling prophecy by turning a glitch into a crisis, and rendering one of our most solid financial institutions liable to takeover, either by foreign conglomerates, or worse, by asset strippers.

The Media should be ashamed of their part in this, but of course they are not.

It would be very interesting to check whether any of those who floated this flying pig of a news story have since bought Northern Rock shares.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Peace
Date: 16 Sep 07 - 02:14 PM

Hell, what's a few billion between friends?

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Sep 07 - 12:56 PM

The UK government has now guaranteed all the money in Northern Rock. That should slow things down a bit. Got your shares? They'll start going up tomorrow.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 01:04 AM

The only problem is that the debts owed to the company are still there - some procedure has to be in place - or somebody has to cover it (as in a takeover) - for the shares to be worth anything, or else the shareholders may not get their stake back... It's a bit like high stakes gambling..

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 07:45 AM

Well I guess we have to get the "hitting Rock bottom" gag out of the way - along with the "between a Rock and a hard place" one.

The real problem is over-confidence with over-reach. As the financial whizzos prefer to call it - over-geared.

Come on - the whole market has got over-confident in good times and not thought about things like a down-turn in the economy, war and pestilence, oil prices, flash floods hitting pocket & production, and "other" (tick one of the above).

Surely we have the warnings out there, they have been managed and accommodated but put a couple or more together and "who'd a thought it?"

Northern Rock took business decisions to go for market share - and got it. This is the gamble they look like loosing. Nigel Lawson (remember him?) reckons they will be sold, a new lot in control and the bank will survive. Let's hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 08:42 AM

Robin, the company IS solvent, it has assets in the billions of pounds. That's not the problem here, their shares have gone back up by 6% so far today.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Sep 07 - 08:52 AM

You can play if you want - me, I got no spare cash anyway... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: GUEST,Red Super Ted
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 06:24 AM

time to send the army in to take over the banks at gunpoint,
then Nationalise the capitalist barstards..

tomorrow .. Trains & Busses, the supermarket chains, burgerbars, and Pub-cos..

sod it, lets just Nationalise everything all those ruthless speculating shites own right now !

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 09:25 PM

Where is me bank, me old savings bank?
It's all gone for profit and for plunder;
Who can you trust when all the banks go bust,
And across the western suburbs we must wander!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 12:18 AM

Brilliant Charley - now where's the rest of the verses?

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 08:10 AM

Where is me house? Me millstone round me neck.
All gone for sale and reposession.
Now it is for rent, by a landlord wot is bent
So around the Western Suburbs learned me lesson

next verse?

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 08:35 AM

Yeah yeah there was a good old fashioned run an a bank in Britain due in part to poor investment and speculation in derivitives and hedge funds heavily invested in sub prime mortage shemes.

What made it historic was that it was the FIRST time people could and did make an ELECTRONIC run on a bank as well as lining up outside the bank to withdrawl money.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 11:14 AM

All of which came to nothing Donuel.

By the Bye which Bank went bust?

Same as the US Economy crashing - non-event, like most the magpie leftists chatter about.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Teribus
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 11:44 AM

"Northern Rock are merely the latest victims of an irresponsible, malicious media, who have forgotten the principles of reporting the news, and are busily engaged in manipulating same." - Don(Wyziwyg)T

"It completes the Media's self fulfilling prophecy by turning a glitch into a crisis, and rendering one of our most solid financial institutions liable to takeover, either by foreign conglomerates, or worse, by asset strippers.

The Media should be ashamed of their part in this, but of course they are not." - Don(Wyziwyg)T

I could not agree with you more Don, not only on this particular story but the media play this game time, and time, and time again. They are too interesting in making news, they no longer know how to report it.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 01:51 PM

Oh - don't get me on the media integrity.

I could effuse on the subject (that has a value of zero) for a long time.

Hyperbole, has become colour become fact, lies become opinion become fact.

Lady Di was hounded to death, the media contribution to the situation with Northern Rock is only a little different. But the directors of the Bank have to factor that into their policy.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 04:54 PM

There is nothing the media love better than a catastrophe of some kind.

Well, come to think of it, they love really bizarre personal stories about equally well, don't they?

Bad news and idle gossip. That's what turns the wheels of the media.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Sep 07 - 09:30 PM

Here's another banker song but this one from Woodie Guthrie:

Words by Woody Guthrie Circa 1940
Tune: traditional "Molly Malone"

I'm a Jolly Banker

My name is Tom Cranker and I'm a jolly banker,
I'm a jolly banker, jolly banker am I;
I safeguard the farmers, widows and orphans,
Singing I'm a jolly banker, jolly banker am I.

When dust storms are sailing and crops are all failing. (as above)
I'll check up your shortage and bring down your mortgage. (as above)

When money you're needing for mouths you are feeding. (as above)
I'll plaster your home with a furniture loan. (as above)

If you show me you need it, I'll let you have credit. (as above)
Just bring me back two, for the one I lend you. (as above)

When your farm you are losing and sadly you're crusin'. (as above)
I'll come and foreclose, get your car and your clothes. (as above)

When the bugs get your cotton and times they are rotten. (as above)
I'll come down and help you, I'll rape you, I'll scalp you. (as above)

When the landlords abuse you or sadly misuse you. (as above)
I'll send down the police, keep you from mischief. (as above)

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 08:34 PM

Well, guess I killed another thread.

RIP

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Sep 07 - 09:29 PM

It's a rare talent, Charley. Treasure it.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 11:09 AM

Slight thread drift, but the idea of "media ethics" was introduced above, and there seems to be general agreement on the original question about the banks.

A slightly off-beat view of "media ethics."????

John

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: folk1e
Date: 24 Sep 07 - 06:11 PM

Just a thaught here .........
IF the "media" run a story about a bank and cause a crash and members of the media buy shares in that bank knowing the tempary low price of shares will soon revert to normal values. Are they then guilty of "insider trading"?
The cynic in me would also wish to know wether the media then running another story along the lines of "Bank fights back from crash to confound critics" and causing the share price to deviate upward and then selling their shares, would then be guilty of two crimes??
Not that they ever would, here in good old blighty

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: GUEST,Lauro
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 06:42 AM

We all know that money is tight, but now it's emerging that tough times are bringing out the Artful Dodger in many people. The credit crunch is giving way to a wave of crime and fraud, with people stealing everything from cash to chickens.


Recent figures show employee fraud has cost UK companies more than £77m in the first half of this year - up from just £10m in the same period last year. Some staff are making extra cash through fake expenses claims or stealing company stock or software for resale.


Perhaps the saddest example of the crunch is that many supermarkets have had to step up their security. Sainsburys and Tesco have both attached security tags to their chicken and meat. The devices have to be removed at the till, and let of a shrill alarm if anyone walks out of the door without having the tag removed.

Even more bizarrely, the latest 'must-have' for shoplifters is Slim Fast shakes.The £7 six packs of the meal replacement drinks have been security-tagged after disappearing en masse from supermarket shelves.

Dodgy claims for car crashes are up by 70% with dishonest motorists deliberately writing off their cars to clear their debts. Investigators having uncovered 24,000 fraudulent claims worth £260 million over the past year, according to the Association of British Insurers.

Petrol stations are also reporting many more cases of people driving off without paying. I always pay for petrol with cash now after so many people I know have had credit and debit cards cloned after filling up.

Also lock the garage and shed up, as police say houses,garages and sheds are the first places to get cleaned out.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 09:49 AM

The CDS market and hedge fund speculation have caused the chain reaction closure of banks worldwide.

THis crisis is American made. A single 55 minute of the SEC decided to not regualte Credit Default Swaps or require them to have any cash reserive to back up any of the bets that only millionaires were allowed to bet. Minimum bet $5 million.

What is a credit default swap? At first it was like insurance, Just like you can insure your house but in this market other people start to get insurance on your house too. Every policy is secret and between two people AND no one is required to have the money to pay in case the house does burn down. CDS don;t insure houses of course they insure things like a billion dollar bond at a rate of about 2% which would be $20 million. This kind of betting creates a chain in which each link is secret, unsecured, unregulated and unstable.
When one link goes...

ssub prime totally seperate from the CDS swindle which is 100 X bigger

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 09:51 AM

European banks required that cash reserves were needed for CDS so their losses will be in single digit trillions but unregulated American losses will be in double digit trillions near the number 50.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Rapparee
Date: 05 Oct 08 - 11:25 AM

About a year ago folks in my neighborhood were wondering why so many garages were cleaned out -- lawnmowers, even cars were taken.

The cops suggested that if they closed their garage doors AND removed the keys from the cars things might start to improve.

Recently a home invader was sentenced to 28 years. High on meth, he entered a man's home, pulled the husband's shotgun from the closet, and held the family at gunpoint. The husband knew the gun was unloaded and fought with the guy long enough that the wife and kids were able to run to a neighbor's for help. The neighbor called the cops and then confronted the invader with a LOADED .456 Casull (this is a VERY VERY powerful handgun). The invader finally gave up.

He got in not through a window, but through the UNLOCKED front door.

Using a modicum, just smidgeon, of good sense can prevent a lot of big problems.

And remember two things: You really CAN'T cheat an honest man (or woman) and If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 08:26 AM

with loans to the value of 125% of the collaterall. And the price of the collateral based on the whims of rumour and fashion. Methinks the viability of banks that lend in such circumstances is a risk.
Risk is not the traditional home of banks.

Chickens coming home to roost is the correct description.

Now - how can we claw back the stipend of the perpetraitors? Seems that is more equitable, if unobtainable.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 09:34 AM

The Euro is falling fast today.

Ireland took steps to prop up their banks with some criticism from other countries. Now other countries are doing the same.

After a couple more years, we will look back and see a slim majority of people kept their jobs and homes but have around half the spending power they used to have.

Subject: RE: BS: Banks going bust.
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Oct 08 - 12:45 PM

plus ca change