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Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems
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Subject: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:21 PM Last week the Microsoft update for XP and it's service pack three came through and were installed. And several of my other programs don't work correctly now or crash when I run them. I'm going to have to remove and reinstall AdAware and my Comodo firewall. Anyone else encountering SP3 problems I should be on the lookout for? SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:57 PM Stilly - I don't find an SP3 for WinXP in anything at Microsoft. Some routine patches keep coming through, but nothing at Service Pack level. I still show SP 2 on my machines. I haven't seen anything affecting Ad-Aware SE or any AV functions, although my Norton did recently block a malware bit who's description included "attempts to disable Anti-Malware and AV," so there's some of that apparently fairly commonly out in the wilds. Full scans done? At Start|Settings|Control Panel, Add/Remove Programs, if you check the box for "show updates" you can look for the specific Microsoft Updates that may have installed most recently. Most, but not all, will show the date installed. The description should include a "KB Number" that you can pull up at Microsoft's site to see what they did to you. I recommend reading the KB article before you just remove an update. Most - not all - patches can be removed, if you find one that really has to be; and/or the KB article may give you an additional "quick fix" for one that causes problems with a specific program or equipment setup. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Oct 07 - 01:57 PM I would uninstall and forget it! You don't need that sort of thing to bugger up your PC. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:03 PM It might have been an Office Service Pack. It came through as SP3 from Microsoft and was huge, 108meg. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:04 PM It was a big deal at work: two weeks ago the IT guys sent out email telling everyone to leave their computers on over the weekend so the update would download. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: JohnInKansas Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:12 PM Windows Service Pack Road Map shows WinXP SP3 not scheduled until next year. There may be a beta version out, according to some rumors, but it would NOT have been pushed to you. Any Office updates you'd get would depend on the Office version you have. I don't find a single site that gives all updates for all versions, and my Office is old enough that I have to search it's details separately. We have Office 2003 and Office Pro (basically Office 2002) and haven't seen anything new that resembles what you got. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Nick Date: 14 Oct 07 - 02:21 PM It'll be Office SP3. There's an article here that may help. It also has the ominous piece of information that you can't uninstall it :( |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Oct 07 - 05:16 PM Well, shit. It's in there. Dialog boxes are a problem and security programs keep crashing and phoning home. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Bonzo3legs Date: 14 Oct 07 - 05:23 PM Reinstall XP and configure so that you decide when and if updates go on your PC. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: artbrooks Date: 14 Oct 07 - 05:47 PM Reinstallation of XP should not be necessary for that. Open Control Panel, then open Automatic Updates, and choose the preferred option. But I'm afraid that might be the only thing possible with the Office issue...uninstall Office, which should also uninstall the updates, reinstall it, and cherry-pick the updates you allow. Before you do that, and if you are pretty sure that you know when it arrived, try doing a "System Restore" to a point prior to that date. Of course, that also kills anything else you installed since then. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 14 Oct 07 - 08:20 PM System restore is the best bet. Has anyone heard of anything good coming from the update? I think it entered into my system on Wednesday or Thursday. I can visit Microsoft for my update history. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Oct 07 - 12:12 AM I had downloaded that SP3 and installed it on Oct. 11, but the computer was running very slow the day before and tried to install it all when I turned off the computer and I didn't let it. So to play it safe I set it back to Oct. 9. I had updated a couple of things in those days, but nothing that can't be redone (security programs, FireFox, etc.) I went to Microsoft and got it to list my download history to be sure of the dates, and then after the system restore I visited Microsoft for the updates I wanted. It was not happy that I excluded the Office update and told it not to list it again in my updates. If that system had been Hal this astronaut would have been in trouble with that decision! SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Oct 07 - 01:11 AM People here, like the "expert" that Nick linked, seem unable to distinguish between WinXP SP3 which is a beta program that should not be available to general users, even if you ask for it, and Office SP3 which is (and has been since January 2007) available. Most of the changes in Office SP3 will have already been installed in bits and pieces if you've kept up to date with Microsoft Update, and there should be no urgency about installing OFFICE SP3. It's essentially a "rollup" of prior patches, made available for those who haven't kept up, or for those who might need to reinstall Office (from old disks) and want to get it back to current. It is critical that you note that there are TWO DIFFERENT VERSIONS of Office SP3 available. Original Office installation disks are REQUIRED to do a successful install. A "short version" is available for those who have their disks, or for networked/administered systems where the administrator can do the necessary redirection to make original source files accessible to the program. If the "source files" are not accessible or are defective, the installation will fail and all the problems claimed could occur. A "full version" is available for download for those who don't have access to the original Office installation files. Relatively few problems have been reported by those who used the correct version of the SP3 download. If a sysadmin requested you to install at the office, the Office SP3 file you were given probably was the short version, and the admin presumedly "wrote the script" for the installation to access the original installation files on an office server. If you took that version home and tried to use it on your own machine, you'd find it broken and you'd be pretty well F***D. If you downloaded the correct version from Microsoft, you should get demands that you insert your system installation CD(s) for the short version, and installation would stop if you didn't come up with them. If you downloaded your own "full version," it should be able to install successfully without additional resources. Since very nearly all the changes will already have been installed piecemeal, Microsoft Automatic Updates shouldn't be force-feeding Office SP3 to you. You'd have to go to them and ask for it, unless your Office is so far behind on patches that the "rollup" version is more appropriate than installing all the prior patches individually. Or so it seems from Microsoft information available. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Nick Date: 15 Oct 07 - 04:16 AM I stand in awe of your knowledge John - as always - but you can't get away from the fact that it's f***ed up his system to the point where it needed a system restore! If "Most of the changes in Office SP3 will have already been installed" then how come it had such a detrimental and immediate effect which has been reversed once unapplied? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Oct 07 - 11:38 AM Her. But I won't quibble. And I did the system restore before the system reached the phucked up critical mass that eventually requires a heckuva lot more work. I could see the digital writing on the wall, so to speak. SP3 wasn't playing nice with others. When I have time to reinstall all of my other little programs, then I'll consider letting it back in. I have the original disks, but was at no time asked to produce them. I have, however, gone through that MS authorization process a couple of times in the past 2.5 years that I've owned this computer. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Bonzo3legs Date: 15 Oct 07 - 01:18 PM Office 2000 is quite good enough for me, if it's all the same to you. You can still use a formula like: =SUMPRODUCT(--($F$877:INDEX(F:F,ROW()-1)="Period Variance"),(G877:INDEX(G:G,ROW()-1))) ....which is quite flash is it not! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Oct 07 - 02:35 PM Bonzo3legs - The same formulas, and a few additional ones, still work in later versions of Office. The "instructions" actually have been improved a bit in later ones (at least for those prior to Office 2007). I would expect any decent spreadsheet to be able to handle array functions of the kind you describe, and "statistical functions" in Excel are fairly robust. I personally find it more amazing that you can type an equation in the Office wordprocessor (Word) and hit a couple of keys to get the result - if you know how to write the equation the right way. Stilly - If your Office programs have been kept up to date via autoupdates, I don't find anything at Microsoft to indicate that a separate installation of Office SP3 is needed. Your sysadmin at the office may not have kept your programs there up to date. Many larger system/network managers have not allowed the updates, in order to keep all the machines at the same level for "easier management" and to test the updates on the office machine configuration before distributing them, so there may have been a need for it at work. Your own system at home probably doesn't need it. I took my own obsolete "Office XP Small Business" to the update site, and used the "Custom Install" option to see if it might be offered. It informed me that there are no available updates - Critical or Optional - available for my version. The only "Critical Update" that's been installed (automatically), for Office, in the past couple of months (installed 10 OCT) was a small patch for my Word 2002, which caused no problems that I've seen. Since they inform me frequently that my Office version is "obsolete" and "no longer supported," there may be optional things available that the update site doesn't show me. Office SP3 may be one of those; but the update site continues to feed me all the Critical (security related) updates. Information for Office SP3 that I find separately indicates that it is applicable to all prior Office versions; but that anything you really need should already have been installed. Especially if your Office version is an older one, you might want to save the Office SP3 installation file (after verifying that you have the right one) so that if you have to reinstall Office you can run the SP3 to get the reinstalled programs updated all in one shot and can avoid downloading all the old patches one at a time. It's just a rollup of earlier changes, and I don't see any indication that you need to install it on a computer that's been kept up to date. Quite obviously, something didn't work as intended with your attempted installation; but all the "bitch pages" I've found that complain about problems similar to yours with Office SP3 indicate quite obviously (IMO) that they didn't RTFM before trying to install it, and in general have no idea what it is, what it's for, or whether they even needed to try to install it. Your administrator at the office told everybody to install it, and may be given credit for having determined that it was needed for the systems at the office. (S)he should have tested the installation programs and instructions on the office machines before distributing the patch. You probably have your own different setup at home, so that advice probably doesn't apply to your home machine. You might ask at the office for "clarification(?)" but you'll want to be very polite about it, since office IT managers are all incredibly overworked, underpaid, and unappreciated. (I know that, 'cause I've asked a couple.) John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 15 Oct 07 - 07:08 PM I probably need to walk over to the campus computer store and buy the most recent Office Suite programs for $20. Microsoft has an agreement with the university to offer them at next to nothing (because they know that lots of university folks will find other ways to use their software anyway if they don't offer it real cheap). I could pick up Vista for the same price, but I'm not interested in trying that one yet. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 15 Oct 07 - 09:49 PM I probably will order a new Dell tower tomorrow, with extra memory, dual drives and Windows XP professional. Office Small Business is offered for $330. Also available is Office Home and Student for $179- it has what I need- but will it work with the XP set-up? Very ignorant on these things. Dell seems to offer the cheaper package only with home and office packages, not the Small business packages. I have lost (stolen by a service man?) my Office 2000 discs (I had put on the upgrades that came up). Guess I have to start over with new program. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Oct 07 - 10:40 PM Stilly - I had an "urgent need" to get a cheap laptop to take along to Winfield, and unfortunately the cheap ones don't offer a choice of Operating Systems - so the one I picked up came with Vista. While there have been some fairly significant security and stability improvements, for USABILITY I have to rate Vista somewhere between a ZERO and a TWO - on a scale of 100. (This is especially true if you don't have an always-on high speed internet connection or if, as at Winfield, you don't have any connection at all. Almost everything you do "calls home" - or tries to.) Since the laptop came with something called "Office Home" which was so useless I didn't even bother to register it, I bought the "shrink wrapped" Office 2007. If you're a moderately experienced user, you'll likely find Office 2007 virtually impossible for most of the stuff you're accustomed to. Shortcut keystrokes still work, mostly, but the functions are not on any menu. Common tasks have been moved to "creative new menus" so that you have to switch between multiple tools and click multiple main sections on the toolbar to do things that used to be all in one toolbar (which they STATE SPECIFICALLY IN HELP that you can't add in Office 2007). "Instructions" in both Vista and Office 2007, have been dumbed down to gradeschool (or pre-school) level, and I've been unable to find anything on "standard professional" procedures, menus, toolbars, etc., except "you can't do that in this program." Mostly, I think you can do that but they've hidden things to make it look like you can't do anything that "might get a total idiot in trouble." Options that you once answered with a "Yes" or "No" now are offered as "multiple choice" with each option requiring you to read a third of a page to find out what it is, and the options change their order of presentation based on which one you've used last, or most frequently, so you have to read the whole page every time one comes up. I'm not very happy with it - thus far. Fortunately, it's only on the laptop, which I use only occasionally. Unfortunately, since all prior versions are or soon will be "unsupported" it appears that if one wants to stay with Windows and Office it's what we'll all eventually have to use. If you're a pre-schooler, or a magazine editor, (or maybe a JoeO?,) you might actually think it's helping you; but if you're a competent user of an older version it will take significant re-learning, if you can make something useful out of it. I've only spent about 90 hours with it so far, and probably 60 of that has been digging through Help and searching websites. Thus far I haven't created a single useful document. I kept most of my notes while at Winfield using Command prompt and "COPY CON TEXTFILE" to avoid losing my "cool" every time I opened Word 2007. (Lin insisted, after I "lost it" a couple of times. Fortunately, I'm a veyr acruate typsit so I din'dt have to try to remebmer how to EDLIN.) John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 15 Oct 07 - 10:59 PM WHY.....did you go with XP?
VISTA is the new platform and most of MS resources, (until 2010?) will continue to support the new product.
Sincerely,
With recent international court decisions.....it appears conditions have returned to the Netscape/MS wars at the millenium....notice how Mozilla/Firefox defers to Apple Quick Time? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: JohnInKansas Date: 15 Oct 07 - 11:40 PM Q - Based on Microsoft error messages that continually/repeatedly tell me that I should upgrade to Office 2007 on my WinXP machines, at least they appear to believe that Office 2007 will run on WinXP with no problems. As commented above, I'm unimpressed by what they've done to Office 2007. Be very careful though that you check out which of the individual Office programs are contained in the version you get. My Office Business, for example, did not include Access, even though the description at the computer builder's site indicated that it did. It's not likely that I'd have used it much, but if I'd wanted it I'd have been mildly screwed, at least. Check the Microsoft site for what's in the version you intend to get, and be very careful about version numbers, since the mix of programs in the various packages (and even the names of the packages) has varied a lot between Office 2000, Office XP, through Office 2007. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: artbrooks Date: 15 Oct 07 - 11:42 PM Q, I am using Office XP Standard (Academic Edition), and it works fine with XP. It is unlikely (but certainly possible) that Dell would bundle software that doesn't work with their product. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Oct 07 - 12:40 AM JohninKansas- Thanks for your help. Office Home+Student 2007 has my needs, but will it work with XP Professional? XP recommended to me because some have not installed Vista. I don't see publishing in the near future. Any help appreciated. Prices are for Office added to Dell's Vostro desktop: 2007 Office Basic Office Small Business Professional Home+Student Excel Excel Excel Excel Excel Word + + + + Outlook + + + + PowerPoint - + + + Publisher - + + - Business, - + + - Contact Mgr. OneNote- in Home + Student only + $150 +$330 +$490 +$179 |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Oct 07 - 12:48 AM The reason I was wondering about the Office Home and Student is because it it not offered with the business packages- only with home and student bundles. I like the price- much less than the small business software. The table didn't come out quite right, but all the + and - are in the right order. Business-Contact Manager in Small Business and Professional pkgs. only. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 16 Oct 07 - 01:06 AM Q, do your comparison on software now before you order the computer. The cheapest way to get the software for your Dell is to order it from Dell at the time you buy the computer. They'll install it and send the disks along for "just in case." I shopped around to get a copy of MS Office for my daughter, only to find that it cost the same as how Dell offered it (much less expensive than buying it off the shelf later). If you poke around at places like CNet and other computer and software discussion sites you can probably find lower prices on some of these programs. If you're really brave you can buy them as OEM from eBay sellers, but like I said, Dell will give you as good a price as you're liable to find (from a vendor who won't roll up his carpet and slip away in the night). SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: JohnInKansas Date: 16 Oct 07 - 06:44 AM It's nearly always cheaper to get the software with the machine, if that's an option. Tricks that Microsoft plays with licensing are unclear for the new stuff, but there has been the minor glitch that an OEM OS (Windows/Vista) is licensed as part of the specific computer it comes with, and can't be (easily) removed and installed on a different machine, even if the original machine "dies an unnatural death." Previous OEM Office programs didn't seem to carry that restriction, but I haven't seen anything "definitive" on the licensing for the new ones - although that's the direction Microsoft seems to be going. An FRP (Full Retail Package - purchased from a retail seller) OS or Office has never carried a restriction to a "first machine," but I haven't found anything yet on whether that remains true for Vista/Office 2007. The "Business" (and maybe the "student") versions of Office, as indicated in the listing above, for some unknown reason seem to omit Access, which is sometimes useful. Instead, they load you up with Power Point (banned in US Department of Defence offices because it's an "information KILLER" that blocks communication) and Publisher - which can't really do much useful that Word can't do as well or better if you learn how to drive Word. If you work for someone who believes that everything has to be on a viewfoil and in a slide presentation, it probably is unwise to inform said boss that (s)he's an idiot, and you're stuck with using them; but if you're interested in actually informing someone you still write a book (or a paper with footnotes) about it. For my use, Word and Excel are the key programs, with Access a "nice to have" but not too necessary to me. The rest of it is just extra baggage. Your use and needs, of course, may vary from mine. Outlook comes in two versions now, with and without the Contact Manager. Contact Manager is frequently/usually listed separately, but is actually just a plug-in to Outlook. Frankly it sounds a lot like just a new "buzzword" for the old Address Book, but I haven't explored in detail whether it will keep my three friends listed in orderly fashion. (i.e. even if it does have more features, they're not things I need.) What ISN'T MENTIONED is that new versions of Office (and Vista) DO NOT INCLUDE Outlook Express, so far as I've been able to determine, wo if you happen to be one of the seven remaining users of that one you're sort of out of luck with the new packages. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 16 Oct 07 - 11:44 PM Well, I ordered from Dell. Now up to my daughter to put it all together. She has me searching for all the discs that came with programs that were installed on the old one. Found everuthing but that Office which went missing. I still think it disappeared when a technician replaced a defective DVD drive and added a bit of memory 3 or so years back. Thanks for your advice and letting me elbow in on another topic. I got the Office small business and XP Pro. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 17 Oct 07 - 10:39 AM What do you see as the difference between Small Business and Professional? Your little table, once deciphered, looks like they're the same except for the price, but I'm sure there's a catch in there somewhere. XP Pro is the best route to go, I think. What the old Win2000Pro was in its day. SRS |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Midchuck Date: 17 Oct 07 - 11:27 AM Re Vista: I was on some geek discussion group where the head geek of the list said he was at a geek conference with five high-level geeks. He said they could not agree on anything about computers except one thing: Never buy or use a version of Windows that has been out for less than thirty months (two and a half years). They all did agree that it takes Microsoft that long at a minimum to get any operating system to run smoothly. Peter |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: JohnInKansas Date: 17 Oct 07 - 12:43 PM List of programs included in the Office XP product box (KB 290531) lists the programs included in the various Office XP versions. "Office XP Small Business" is not shown, but appears to be the same(?) as "Office XP Standard" shown in this article. "Office XP Professional" is shown as: Contents: All the software included with Microsoft Office XP Standard plus the following software: - Microsoft Access 2002 Note that there also is/was an "Office XP Professional Special Edition" which differs. John |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 17 Oct 07 - 02:17 PM Sorry my table was scrambled. Office Professional has Word, Excel, Publisher, PowerPoint, Outlook w/ Bus. Mgr., Access and Outlook. Office Small Business lacks Access and Outlook. Small Business offered independently is $579, but in the package it was $330; quite a saving. Dell Canada Prices without package (some with short-term sale reduction) Office 2007 standard - $459 Office 2007 Ultimate - $819 (+ Groove, OneNote, Infopath, Library, etc.) Office 2007 Professional - $669 Office 2007 Home and Student - $179 (English or French) (also some EDU prices) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine Date: 18 Oct 07 - 09:54 AM Or alternatively: Ubunutu Linux £0 Mozilla Thunderbird £0 Open Office 2.2 £0 I hardly Windows on my home PC anymore. Takes a little more work and understanding to get used to Linux (which is no bad thing), but it works, and unlike Windows, it continues to work without getting slower the more software you install. It's virtually impossible for a virus to do any serious damage, no spyware installing itself. Also, loads of open source software running on Linux, most of it FREE. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: XP Service Pack 3 problems From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Oct 07 - 11:30 AM This morning I got rid of my most recent update of Lavasoft AdAware 2007. Darned thing kept crashing and when it did scan it didn't find anything. I still had the previous download in a file so after getting rid of the new one I reinstalled the previous program and it worked as expected. So for now I'm not letting some of these new ones through--I think they're trying to get a larger population to run their beta programs. (Windows included.) I bet Lavasoft will notice people downloading the virus definitions with the older program. That might tell them something. SRS |
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