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Songs of the Mexican revolution
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Subject: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 04 Feb 08 - 06:37 AM I read with interest that La Cucaracha was the marching song of General Pancho Villa's troops, and have found this translation: La cucaracha, that little cockroach, O his home he'll never leave, because to travel without a real roach to smoke, he just can't conceive. Heard the cockroach kicked the bucket, and the funeral packed the house. He was buried with four buzzards, right next to the sexton's mouse. With the chin hairs of Carranza, I will weave a lovely band, for the hat of Pancho Villa, yes, our leader oh so grand. When this baker went to mass, he didn't have a single prayer, so he prayed the blessed Virgin, fill his pot pipe up to there. Biggest laugh that I've had ever, Pancho Villa without shirt on. Carrancistas run for cover, that's why Pancho Villa's men won. There are various CDs listed as "music of the Mexican revolution" - but which are good, and which are authentic? |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Maryrrf Date: 04 Feb 08 - 09:02 AM Where is the list you found - I might be able to help you decide. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: pdq Date: 04 Feb 08 - 10:52 AM Which revolution? From 1821 to 1920, Mexico had at least three distinct political revolutions. Each put thugs and crooks into power, all of whom claimed to represent "the people". Nothing really changes, just the names. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 04 Feb 08 - 12:07 PM Mm, from what I read about Villa, he wasn't a thug or a crook, but of course he wasn't in power; at the point when he was killed, he was running a big farm, had set up schools for children and cheap loans for farmers and workers, and generally seemed to be a good guy. Here's an interview with an adopted son of his: http://www.ojinaga.com/pinon/ This is the album I found: http://www.amazon.com/Mexican-Revolution-Various-Artists/dp/B0000023U5 Thanks for the offer, Marynf. Incidentally, I also read that Villa's staff car, racing around stuffed with his staff, with arms and legs sticking out and waving from all angles, was known as 'La Cucaracha'. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Maryrrf Date: 04 Feb 08 - 12:19 PM I don't know about Villa being such a good guy, I much prefer Emiliano Zapata. Less flamboyant, but steadfast to the end in his support for the common man and the principles he believed in. As for the album I think it looks excellent, a very comprehensive collection containing many of the well known songs but also some more obscure corridos. I would vote a resounding yes on that one. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,Monique Date: 04 Feb 08 - 01:02 PM The translation you mention does translate some verses but not literaly You have an English translation to some verses , lyrics and the story of the song in Spanish here http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/l/lacucaracha.shtml |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,Monique Date: 04 Feb 08 - 01:04 PM And you can hear some songs and read the lyrics here http://latinoartcommunity.org/community/Gallery/1910/ArtMus/Corridos.html (it wouldn't take two links in the same post) |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 04 Feb 08 - 01:28 PM Thanks, Monique, following those links now. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: pdq Date: 04 Feb 08 - 01:40 PM JJT...if you intend this thread to exclusively about Pancho Villa, why the title "Songs of the Mexican revolution?". There were at least three revolutions is modern Mexico. We call our separation from Britian a revolution, Mexicans call their separation one also. That was in 1821. Another revolution was started in 1854 by Diaz and other reformers, who finally tossed out General Santa Anna, a Spaniard and a crooked thug. Their goals included a secular education system that would welcome all citizens, not just sons and daughters of the elite. The revolution you suggest happened between about 1910 and 1920 and involved the replacing of an aged Diaz with a different group of thugs and crooks. read more here |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Feb 08 - 01:56 PM "La Cucaracha" is a very old Spanish folk song, perhaps introduced to Mexico in 1818. See thread 5841" La Cucarocha (Name mis-spelled at the head of that thread). It seems to have been sung in the revolution when Mexico gained independence (1821), and never lost popularity. What verses are original? They have been revised and new ones written for a long time; take your pick. pdq- "...thugs and crooks into power..." Not strictly true; the leaders were serious men who tried to create a popular state, but the feudal hierarchy and opportunists soon retook center stage. A good book of corridos, some revolutionary and from many periods of Mexico's convoluted history, is Antonio Avitia Hernandez, 2000, "Corridos de la capital," Conoculta (All in Spanish). "La Cucaracha" is not considered to be a corrido, but an old folk song. I have received a few books that might provide older verses; I will check through them and see what i can find. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 04 Feb 08 - 02:11 PM This is a musical thread - or so I intended it. Perhaps pdq might take his or her opinions on the justice of the revolution/s into a separate BS thread? Q, what's the difference between a corrido and folk song, please? I don't know which verses are original - maybe it's one of those songs that acquires verses for whatever's going on right now, like some of the satirical news songs of the Caribbean? |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Feb 08 - 02:15 PM Another book with a number of "revolutionarios": Vicente T. Mendoza, 1985, "Corridos mexicanos," (Lecturas mexicanas no. 71), Cultura SEP (Mexico). The best collection is "Cancionero Folklorico de Mexico," in five volumes. I have not been able to get vol. 4, which contains the humorous coplas. A version from Chihuahua, with translation, I will post later today, in thread 5841 (linked in previous post). |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Feb 08 - 02:28 PM A 'corrido' is a ballad, an offspring of the Spanish 'romance.' The octosyllabic verses of a romance were changed to quatrains, "more pleasing to Mexican estheic sensitivity" - Frances Toor, "A Treasury of Mexican Folkways." Original verses? I don't know either, I haven't the proper references, but I may find some in Cantos populares Españoles, which I haven't looked at yet. So far, those I have all concern the revolution of c. 1910-1920 and concern the cockroach. No idea of what the original Spanish song was about, except that is concerned the war with France. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,albert Date: 04 Feb 08 - 02:37 PM For a good novel which showed the need for a Mexican revolution try the Rebellion Of The Hanged by someone whose name escapes me now...is it Bernard Traven?? It shows the brutality and poverty that the Mexican peasantry had to suffer. albert |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Feb 08 - 03:05 PM "Adelita," a famous revolutionary song, is covered in thread 5940: Adelita If you put "Adelita" in the Search box at the top of this thread, the names come up of some others in Mudcat. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 04 Feb 08 - 03:18 PM One of the links from Monique has Adelita, which I hadn't heard before, but loved. Thank you so much. Quatrains? Octosyllabic? Please explain for the syllable-challenged, Q. I never knew before that ethnicities made one appreciate verse forms differently. Ar, as they say in the north of England. I will look for Rebellion of the Hanged in my local library; thanks for the tip, albert. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 04 Feb 08 - 03:22 PM Thanks, albert, my local library has it and I've reserved it; I see (from the library's site) that Treasure of the Sierra Madre is also by Traven. (I see there's a Wiki about the author: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Traven by the way.) |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Maryrrf Date: 04 Feb 08 - 04:53 PM Although Mexico has had more than one Revolution when people say 'Mexican Revolution' they usually are talking about one that took place in 1910 - that seems to have produced some of the best corridos too - at least some of my favorites. For a good account of the 1910 Revolution I recommend 'Insurgent Mexico' by John Reed. Another good book on that subject was written by John Womack - Zapata and the Mexican Revolution. Fascinating part of history. I really feel like you will enjoy that CD set if you order it. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,Volgadon Date: 04 Feb 08 - 04:58 PM I definitely would NOT call Pancho Villa a good guy, but not a mindless thug or bandit either. No, a shrewd power-seeker, who had few scruples when it came to acheiving his ends. Yes I'm sure he loved his children and all that... |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: pdq Date: 04 Feb 08 - 05:58 PM In 1916, Poncho Villa staged an attack on Columbus, New Mexico (to the Brits, that is in the United States). Villa and his thugs burned the town to the ground, killing twelve people. Hardly enouth death and destruction to tarnish his heroic status, eh? I hear he was also kind to his doig and to his mother. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,Volgadon Date: 04 Feb 08 - 06:12 PM I was being sarcastic, I'm sure you realised that. We have some family history tied up with Villa, so maybe that's why I can't see him as a hero either. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Feb 08 - 07:18 PM Take your muddled history elsewhere. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Feb 08 - 08:55 PM La Cucaracha- Old verses, and translation of a version posted by Joe Offer, have been added to thread 5841: La Cucarocha Song originated in Spain, perhaps when the Moors were being contested, but no direct evidence except the oldest known verse is about the Moors. _____________________________________ Octosyllabic- The following lines have eight syllables- a standard poetic form in the 'romances' written in Spain. Del pellejo del rey moro tengo que hacer un sofá, etc. Some lines use words that add up to more than eight syllables, but delivery and pronunciation were adjusted by the declaimer. Words like que, de, un una, etc. often get little sound value in speech. A versifier could explain more elegantly, but the above may help. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 04 Feb 08 - 09:00 PM Don't know if you are interested, but a famous song about the French occupation in mid-Nineteenth C. is "De Las Torres De Puebla" (The Towers of Puebla). I don't believe it has been posted yet. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 05 Feb 08 - 03:41 AM Thanks for the verse explanation. I see that De Las Torres De Puebla's lyrics are online in various of those sites that inexplicably assume that people who are looking for lyrics are also eager to gamble and view pornography. Well, maybe they are, who knows? Ah yes, history is always a matter of whether you're on the pointy end. I'm currently reading a very interesting essay, an introduction to a publication by Thomas Moore on the Veto Question, which points out that the Irish Parliament now fondly remembered by nationalists, which was dissolved through bribery in 1801, was the tool of the Ascendancy, a class determined to suppress the Catholics and Irishry by all methods, and the centre of the imposition of the Penal Laws for the suppression of Catholicism. Until we learn to negotiate, and until we learn to be content with *enough for myself*, violence is inevitable; or so it seems to me. I'm reading this from a distance in time and geography, but it appears that Mexico before the revolution had taken rights to own land away from people who had been farming the same land for hundreds of generations; that an aristocratic class was grabbing the land of others, making profits off the backs of the poor, and preventing the people they thrust into poverty from getting schooling and advancement. And it also appears that the still fairly new American state was encroaching on Mexican land and appropriating it into its territory. But as I say, I'm working this out from my reading; I have no personal experience of it. I'm just trying to make my way through the propaganda from all sides. As for Pancho Villa and all revolutionaries and warriors, I think that we forget how traumatic violence and terror are, and how liable to warp the characters of even the finest people. Look at their sad effects on the men now returning home to America from Iraq. (By the way, I didn't know that France occupied Mexico? How we people get around!) |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,Monique Date: 05 Feb 08 - 04:08 AM Q, please do, I am. The only one I know about the Spanish fighting the French is El paso del Ebro that was later adapted and sung during the Civil War and I love it. About the translation to the last line of the verse about the cucaracha's death "... y un ratón de sacristán" : "de" there doesn't means "of", it means "haciendo de" = "acting as" so it means "and a mouse as the sexton" and not "the sexton's mouse" |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,Rog Peek at work Date: 05 Feb 08 - 04:58 AM Bullets of mexico by Phil Ochs Rog |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 05 Feb 08 - 06:36 AM Here's Ochs in Chicago in 1968. Wonder what all those revolutionaries who were cheering him are doing now: http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=tQNYGj5q4Qk |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,IFOR Date: 05 Feb 08 - 01:22 PM What about There was something in the air that night The stars were bright Fernando by Abba just love that song!!!! ifor |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: catspaw49 Date: 05 Feb 08 - 01:46 PM Or Pancho and Lefty............................ . . Sorry....Had to be said........I'll just get my hat............. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Feb 08 - 02:42 PM The song about Rubén Jaramillo by Ochs is a simplification of a long story. Read about his early work in Morelos here (with English translation): Instituto Jaramillo Jaramillo fought with Zapatistas in the 1910-1920 revolution, and later was active in promoting farmers' rights. He convinced President Lázaro Cárdenas to build a sugar-processing mill in Morelos in order to make sugar cultivation practical. The mill was opened in 1938. In 1943 Jaramillo formed the Agrarian Labor Party in Morelos. In 1960, he encouraged a number of land seizures, which brought the wrath of large landowners. In 1962, the police kidnapped him and his wife and three children, and killed them. Donald C. Hodges, 1995, "Mexican Anarchism after the Revolution," protrays Jaramillo as an anarchist, but this label is at odds with his history, that of a man who flirted with freemasonry and the Methodist Church, and had worked on nationalistic programs. There is an online review of this book, but I don't have the time to look for it now. I have not found a corrido about Jaramillo, but I am sure they exist. We don't get current news of Mexico often, but last week thousands of small farmers with their tractors came to Mexico City to protest against the importation of cheap corn and corn flour from the U. S. and Canada. Bush and the department of State, and the Agriculture Secretary, made Mexico agree to the imports. The small farmer in Mexico has made great strides, but still has a ways to go to get security. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: ard mhacha Date: 05 Feb 08 - 03:52 PM I have a CD of Linda Ronstadt, Canciones de mi Padre,in are a few revolutionary songs, a great CD, one of my long time favourites. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Feb 08 - 05:00 PM I have a video of Ronstadt singing those songs. A good program. |
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Subject: Add: De Las Torres de Puebla (Towers of Puebla) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Feb 08 - 06:10 PM Lyr. Add: DE LAS TORRES DE PUEBLA (French Occupation, 1860s) Dónde están esas torres de Puebla? Dónde están esos templos dorados? Dónde están esos vasos sagrados? Con la guerra todo se acabó. Entre escombros gemían los heridos que lucharon con tanto valor, y las madres decían a sus hijos: -Vamos pues a morir con honor!- Estribillo: Pa' los fuertes de Loreto comenzaron a tirar esas tropas de franceses que gritaban sin cesar; a los nuestros les decían: Qu'és de las piezas de pan? -!Aguárdenlas, que ai les van! !Pom...! Dónde estás Zaragoza valiente? Dónde está tu lucido escuadrón? A luchar por la Patria ha marchado a luchar y a morir con honor. Estribillo- Si mi suerte es morir en campaña, defendiendo mi patria y mi honor, mexicanos, adornen mi tumba con la enseña de mi pabellón, Estribillo- Entre soldado del norte es muy pobre, su vestido una tosca mezclilla; su divisa una blusa amarilla, pero nunca su patria vendió. Estribillo- Add: TOWERS OF PUEBLA Translation by Frances Toor Where are those towers of Puebla? Where are those golden temples? Where are those sacred chalices? With the war all is gone. The wounded sigh amidst the ruins, Who fought with such valor And the mothers said to their sons, Let us then die with honor! Refrain- Toward the Forts of Loreto They began to shoot Those troops of Frenchmen Who yelled without stopping And they said to our soldiers: What about those pieces of bread? Keep them, there they go, pom...! Where are you, brave Zaragoza? Where is your brilliant squadron? It has marched off to fight for the Fatherland, To fight and to die with honor. Refrain (Second and third verses) If my fare is to die in battle Defending my Fatherland and honor, Mexicans, decorate my grave With the colors of my flag. Refrain (Second and third verses) The soldier from the North is very poor His suit is of rough drill, His badge sa yellow blouse But he has never sold out his Fatherland. Repeat all the first part. With musical score, from "Romance y Corrido," Vicente T. Mendoza, in Frances Toor, 1945, "A Treasury of Mexican Folkways," pp. 415-416. Hardline conservatives in exile, defeated by Benito Juárez, convinced Maximilian (Hapsburg) that he would be accepted by the Mexicans as emperor. They were able to install him as Emperor in 1864, after the French General Forey had driven Mexican forces out of Mexico City, with his Empress, Carlota (Marie Charlotte Amèlie of Belgium). He was deposed and executed by order of Juárez in 1867. Carlota went insane, but lived on until 1927. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Feb 08 - 11:01 PM There are several corridos about Jaramillo that can be found with google. Enter "Ruben Jaramillo" corrido I won't post, because I don't have translations. They seem to be of two types; early ones about events from 1915-1940, and late ones encompassing his death. There are a number of volumes of corridos, covering many hundreds, revolutionary and otherwise, published in Mexico. They are almost impossible to find because editions were very small. Contents of some of then may be found through google. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 05 Feb 08 - 11:26 PM It is my vote - that we let... the ME XIC ANS.
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: GUEST,JTT Date: 06 Feb 08 - 01:32 PM What about just giving them back Texas and California? And compensating them for all the oil taken out of Texas? |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: pdq Date: 06 Feb 08 - 01:57 PM With all due respect, GUEST JJT, you need to read a few books and a few more articles on this subject before your conclusions can be considered anything but bigotry and speculation. Fact is, the people of both Texas and California rejected the Mexican claim to those areas. It was something that started with the Spanish who claimed virtually all of both North and South America at one time. The people of California hated the corrupt thugs and crooks who took power in Mexico when the Spanish left. They wanted no part of Mexican rule and thew them out. California became an independent country for a while, then asked to join the US. They were accepted. Most Texans also rejected Mexican rule. The Lone Star State became a sepsarate country for a while and also vote to join the US. They were actually turned down initially as many in the US government thought the area could not support itself and would be a drain on the rest of the United States. They were acceped on their second attemt to join. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Feb 08 - 02:50 PM This is supposed to be a song thread. If you want to garbage history, start another thread. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: pdq Date: 06 Feb 08 - 03:19 PM Q, Almost all posts on this thread are political, not about music. Even you insist on putting a nasty political edge on everything you have posted here. Take a hike, jack. Either that or read a little history and try to cure you ignorance. Besides, history cannot be separated trom topical song. They are written to keep that history alive. What you do is the intellectual equivalent of book burning. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 06 Feb 08 - 04:50 PM pdq- From your first post of 04 Feb 08 it was evident you were a bigot with an abyssmal ignorance of Mexican history. I need not comment further. |
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Subject: RE: Songs of the Mexican revolution From: pdq Date: 06 Feb 08 - 06:56 PM Q: Everything I have said is true and can be varified by doing a little research. You choose to ignore the truth and push a version of history that is based on your prejudice and bigotry. You have shown yourself to be a politically-motivated hachettman on many threads. You have even referred to some Americans as "White Trash". You are an Anglo-hater and you are anti-American. You are the bigot. GUEST JJT: If you look on the net for stories about the Bear Flag Republic and the Republic of Texas, you will find some interesting reading. Key people like Pio Pico and John C. Fremont are there. The history of Mexico involves more than two groups. There were the Spanish conquistidors, the native Mexicans, the Mexican-born Spanish and the Anglos. I don't believe you will find the Anglo oppression of Mexicans that you seem to be looking for. If you do, please post . The native people were nearly destroyed by Spanish while the Anglos spread out across the continent looking for farm land and a peaceful place to start a new. life. |
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Subject: Add: Corrido de los Americanos From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 07 Feb 08 - 01:05 AM The following corrido was written at the time of the invasion of Mexico by the United States in the 1840s. It belongs to the same period as "Clarín de Campaña," posted in thread 74412: Clarín de Campaña Lyr. Add: Corrido de los Americanos Anónimo !Ay!, amigos mios, les voy a contar lo que ha pasado en esta ciudad. Entraron los yanquis, me arriesgo a pelear, y a la pasadita, dan, darán, dan, darán. Ya las margaritas hablan el inglés, les dicen qué quieres y responden yes, mi entiende de monis, mucho güeno está, y a la pasadita, dan, darán, dan, darán. Todas estas niñas, de la bella Unión, bailan muy alegres danza o rigodón, paracen señoras de gran calidad, y a la pasadita, dan, darán, dan darán. Sólo de los hombres no hay que desconfiar, pues lo que ellos hacen no lo hacen por mal, suelen, como el gato, también halagar, y a la pasadita, dar, darán, dar, darán. Los yanquis malvados, no cesan de hablar, que habrán de acabar, con esta Nación, yo les digo nones el dia llegará y a la pasadita, dan, darán, dan, darán. Written during the occupation of Mexico City by United States forces, 14 September, 1847. Higinio Vasquez Santa Anna, "Cantares mexicanos," Ediciones de León Sánchez, pp. 151-153. Various tunes used. Also in Antonio Avitia Hernández, 2000, "Corridos de la capital," pp. 45-46, Conoculta, México, D. F. and "Cancionero Folklংrico de México," vol. 4. |
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