Tight Folkies

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:02 AM

Sounds like a paragraph from one of the disgusting 'Redtop' so called newspapers we suffer from in the UK.


G

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:31 AM

Guest Maxwell's Silver Hammer....YOU STATE

<<<<<<<< Georgian Silver, I have told you the FACTS. I don't care what you THINK! I guess that some people are simply beyond reason. Good luck in your pathetic attempt to justify the stinginess of this miserly crew and may you spend many happy hours counting the money you save at the expense of those with a good heart. >>>>>>>>>>>

I suggest that your facts are very one-sided and I have tried vainly to redress the balance. There were expectations on both sides and for some reason they did not meet the 'required' agenda of the Landlord or you would not have started the thread.
I am not saying that he did not make things clear to someone...maybe and organiser....but lack of communication or clarity caused one of those annoying situations.......you are trying blatantly to blame 'Folkies'...I am suggesting it is better not to sit in judgement and blame no-one in particular other than circumstance.....
Something does need to be learnt from this both by those involved...INCLUDING your friend the Landlord.
As for 'counting the money I save at the expense of those with a good heart'.....perhaps you need to question those who know me before making scathing comments about how 'tight' you may think I am.
I have an opinion as have you but I don't deem it correct to judge you or accuse you....why do it to me?

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:11 AM

leeneia - Unfortunately it's no urban tale. Georgian Silver - The landlord has learned from it. He will NOT be offering his premesis again. I know this guy very well and he's not the type to whinge and whine. It would appear that, no matter how much I try to stick to the facts, either you or one of your 'allies' tries to distort it by offering some ridiculous reason for the behaviour of these people. Can you really not see that all of this could have been avoided if those people had simply put there hands in their pockets and spent a few quid to make it worth his while and as a gesture of thanks?

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:20 AM

Yes I can surely see that but for whatever reason...lack of communication maybe......perhaps most of the people involved were there for their own reasons and the 'need' to spend money had not been made apparent to them...or all of them.
I do not believe that most people....not just 'Folkies'....would deliberately take advantage in this situation if they are fully aware of facts and expectations...do you? really? honestly?

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:22 AM

Well it's obvious from your partisan posting that the landlord is a 'friend' of yours. I still think it is an odious comparison to hang a tight fisted label on all folkies on the basis of anecdotal evidence.
It also crosses my mind to wonder why, when you say it happened 'a couple of years ago', you have only brought it up now?

Giok

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 11:06 AM

And once again a guest manages to wind people up.

Basically the Landlord is a pillock for not applying his rules, after all it is his premises. Not a very good manager me thinks.

Whats the name of the pub guest? Maybe we can ring him and find the truth out.

As for the person who booked it, may your head hang in shame for giving the folkies a bad name.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver hammer
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 11:11 AM

By all means - It's The Shambles. He doesn't work there, he owns it.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 11:11 AM

I think that Georgian Silver doesn't get it yet--it wasn't a contractual issue--it was simple rudeness.

And furthermore, if it had been an 8am rehearsal for 45 performers, prior to a performance for most sorts of performing ensembles, MSH's friend would have been paid to provide a buffet with coffee, pastries, water, and sundry extras, and the group would have counted themselves lucky to have been saved the trouble of finding a caterer--

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 11:42 AM

The shambles Bar & Restuarant. Thats the one that you have to climb up the stairs to get to isn't it.
I like that place, good beer from my memory. Also from my memory the food was good but if I remember right was a bit pricy for what you got.
However, in fairness, I would have thought the people going in would have checked to see if it was alright to eat ones own food and drink ones own drinks.
I still cannot understand why the staff didn't knock that situation on the head immediately.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 11:54 AM

That's the one villan. As I said all along, he didn't want anything from the whole scenario. Jusy a bit of appreciation that's all. As fot the prices - that's Whitby for you. So, are you gonna finish in that UEFA cup spot?

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 12:03 PM

Well I would expect the Villa to pick up 6 points.
However I think Everton have a much tougher 2 matches.
So all in all, there is still an outside chance, but I am not going to hold my breath. Be nice if we do though :-)

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 12:18 PM

Well, I wish you all the best mate. My lot have already made the UEFA cup - best we can hope for nowadays I'm afraid. The boy Barry has been the only ever-present in my dream team this year. He's been a revelation. I used to play 5 a-side against him in Hastings. He was a bit tasty then. Best not talk about footie though - we'd be on a hiding to nothing in here! :-)

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 12:29 PM

>>My lot have already made the UEFA cup << And they are ?

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,ermintrude
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 12:34 PM

They've all got short arms and deep pockets. Folkies that is, not the Villa.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 12:37 PM

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 12:39 PM

Whoops! :-)

Spurs

ermintrude - don't get me started again. Back to the roundabout for you and NO tea!

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 01:25 PM

Time for bed said Zebadee

Bit of a mixed season from the Spurs

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 01:59 PM

This discussion is quite beyond me. We never find it necessary to visit pubs on the odd occasion we attend a folk festival. Frankly, I find the stench of beer nausiating. If I do attend a gig in a pub, I see no reason why I should be expected to drink as well.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 01:59 PM

Nah mate, me neither

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Banjiman
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 02:19 PM

"If I do attend a gig in a pub, I see no reason why I should be expected to drink as well."

The prosecution can rest its' case I think!!!!

Paul

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 02:22 PM

............ and on that note............. ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 02:40 PM

The prosecution can rest its' case I think!!!!

I don't know... Whether I felt I should buy a drink (although I probably would anyway) would depend on door charges. Perhaps I'm one of the tight ones but the last pub venue I paid at I think tickets were £8 - so it cost me £16. I'm not going to feel obliged to buy a drink on top of that,


Anyway, I'm out for free music (and a couple of drinks) tonight. I've heard of one of the pubs I go to for a session having a regular night of what sound like music hall songs and other older popular songs and thought I'll have a look in. Will probably move on to a session from there. I'll buy a drink there but in this one, those that play do get a free drink at the end of the night...

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Howard Jones
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 06:38 PM

If you're paying for entrance to the gig then I don't think there's any obligation to buy a drink as well, just because its in a pub - you wouldn't feel you had to buy a drink at a gig in a theatre, for example.

But the original posting was about an arrangement made between a landlord and and a group of folkies, who reneged on the deal. The landlord could have thrown them out - he chose not to, but he won't offer again. But why didn't the organisers explain the arrangement to their members beforehand, or tell them to stop eating and drinking their own supplies when they started tucking in?

Without the arrangement, these people would have had to pay to hire a room, or practice in the street. A cup of coffee and a sandwich sounds cheap enough to me.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 06:58 PM

Allright I admit, we're all mean bastards.

Are all these sandwiches and coffees tax deductible?

Was there a VAT receipt offered for those four coffees, or do we stand to that loss ourslves?

Yorkshire folk are world renowned for the warmth of their hostility, but a stitch in time saves nine as they say in Heckmondwike.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: melodeonboy
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 07:05 PM

Mmmmm.....

St. George's Day celebrations at the King's Arms, Upnor, nr. Rochester:

Mainly folkies, most of whom were participating. The landlord not only put on extra beers inside the pub, but set up another bar with twelve or so different beers outside in the garden. And, blow me down, by early evening on the Saturday, the beer had nearly all gone!

The Good Intent in Rochester, hardly a huge pub, will be setting up twelve real ales (in addition to their usual selection) for the Sweeps Festival, which starts in earnest tomorrow. The large majority of customers in the upper bar/garden during Sweeps are folkies. They did the same last year and, blow me down, the beer all went!

The landlords of the establishments above are repeatedly hosting folk events, not only because they like to support folk music, but because they make good money out of it, and good luck to them.

Or is it only Kent folkies who drink?

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:27 PM

We've already established that folkies like their beer.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:58 PM

As I said before, it depends on the situation. I maintain that on a regular (eg. weekly, monthly) folk event the amount of beer consumed per folk participating punter per night is lower on average that your average few times a week punter and I'd guess a lower than say your Villa v Norwich (sorry someone above but I support [when I do the other) and I guess we both might like M O'Niel)

Festivals, I think can be different...

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:00 PM

Lost some text above: When I do support, It's Norwich.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: melodeonboy
Date: 01 May 08 - 02:52 AM

M Ted: I should have pointed out that my last post was in response to the following comment above from GUEST,Jon:

"I've rarely seen the (at least participation) folk contingent do much in the way of contributing to a pubs turnover of drinks by their own consumption."

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: oldfogie
Date: 01 May 08 - 03:41 AM

I wonder how many 'folkies' actually organise anything themselves (like a club or a festival). I'm not sure that some 'folkies' are in the real world. For example you don't get many guests priced under £100 (at least who are any good) more often-a lot more (often closer to £300). yet people still moan about paying a realistic door fee. I believe this situation is exacerbated by clubs that run mostly singers nights and charge a low entrance fee then periodically book a guest and still charge a low fee. This means that any club that doesn't work this way and charges a realistic door fee runs into comments like 'that's expensive' 'the club in the next town only charge £2'
This also has the effect of devaluing the guest and makes it sound as though he ain't worth much.
I speak as someone who has run a number of clubs during my 35 years love of folk music. I am also on a pension but I still expect to pay a realistic price for things.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: theleveller
Date: 01 May 08 - 03:53 AM

"Frankly, I find the stench of beer nausiating (sic!!)."




For goodness sake, Boko, you're supposed to drink it, not sniff it. It's not Lafite '61, you know.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 May 08 - 05:31 AM

I was sort of involved with one that booked guests in the 80s. I didn't book the guests but I was aware of some of the fees. As far as I can remember, the sort of lower fee was £60. The highest I can remember was for a well known English fiddler who cost £180.

We did (but shouldn't have, I was annoyed but that's another story..) charge on the door for the fiddler but that's the only instance I can think of where we did charge.

Money was raised a) by passing a pot round, b) a raffle and c) with the London (we were lucky), the landlord put in a contribution (off hand, I would suggest it might have been £10 when trade was good in the summer).

The club had a guest about 1 in 4 in the summer, tailing off to nothing (except perhaps Barry Skinner for the Xmas do) in the winter from which the period after the New Year could feel a bit of a long haul.

The financial "problem" I remember was never on of not being able to pay guests but an excess of money. This could be resolved by either having an extra guest or by getting a bigger name.

The subject of door charges did crop up once in a while and opinion was divided but not that I can remember for reasons of wanting to always have big names. I'd say it mostly really came down to whether one believed people should be charged for entertainment as a matter of principle or not.

My own views fwiw were we would not be better of financially by door charging, the voluntary contributions worked well for that club, a charge would loose good will (perhaps including the landlord's) plus I personally liked to provide folk at no charge. Also, and again very personally, I would not like to have charged for the array of floor singers we had and certainly would not have liked trying to offer "value for money" with implications as discussed in other recent threads here...

So, yes, oldfogie, I've at least seen a bit of it.

(and I'll add I'm not saying other clubs are wrong in what ever policy they choose - I just know where my own feelings lie).

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Santa
Date: 01 May 08 - 05:40 AM

The Clarence runs a "money in the pot" system, but I don't think it is as fair as a door charge (which wouldn't work in this case anyway). It keeps the goodwill of the tight sods who apparently don't believe in paying for the efforts and travel of the artists, at the expense of the more generous. I'm not sure that's a particularly good principle to work on.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 May 08 - 06:04 AM

Re the "tight sods", again only from my view point, I can feel that a bit like abolishing sickness benefit because a minority abuse the system. I'd personally not like to charge because one or two might be very mean.

Of course this debate could rattle on and on and another "fairness" argument can point towards having different rates (including free) for singers and guest nights. Not my way but it does work for some clubs.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 May 08 - 07:09 AM

Regarding camping at festivals, with 'staff for stalls' and 'mates' - some places have limits for the staff. My complaint is that I am looking at going to one in which the 'staff' and 'normal attendees' are put in separate camping areas. I don't mind paying 'normal price' for attending, even though I will be helping out my friend on the stall (might even have some items on her stall too) - but having to be in separate camping areas will be a real pain, as several of us were planning to camp together. We will no longer be able to organise food etc easily, as now we will require 2 smaller tents rather than the one big one.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 May 08 - 04:08 PM

There might be a few folkies at the Polo Masters day at Hurtwood Park next weekend who know nothing of this pathetic discussion - even in the VIP marquee which promises to provide a superb day!

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 May 08 - 12:08 PM

The thing about festivals - they nearly always book loads of people you wouldn't actually cross the road to go and see. Unless the festival is actually in a nice place - somewhere as you say Foolestroup where you want to be, somewhere pleasant! with your mates - it can work out as a bloody expensive miserable business.

if that makes me seem a tight sod, i'm sorry. But I prefer concerts and clubs. I don't know about anybody else, but I nearly always find myself looking round for other stuff localy than what's on the festival that I've paid to see.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 May 08 - 12:11 PM

I'm waiting for the CD to come out.
G

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: melodeonboy
Date: 05 May 08 - 05:59 PM

"The thing about festivals - they nearly always book loads of people you wouldn't actually cross the road to go and see"

Well, WLD, I know we don't necessarily share the same taste in music, but Oxford Folk Festival had a number of artists on this year that I would not only cross the road to see, but who I have gone (or would go) out of my way to see at some expense. Bellowhead, Brass Monkey, Kathryn Tickell Band, Martin Simpson and Danny Thompson, Luke Daniels et al. And it's only a small festival.

By the way, following on from my earlier post, today was the last day of Rochester Sweeps Festival, and I'm pleased to report that, according to what I've been told and what I've seen with my own eyes, the tight folkies had actually drunk three pubs dry by last night: The Good Intent (we'd even finished off their bottled beer by this afternoon!), The Man of Kent and The Gordon House Hotel.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 06 May 08 - 01:53 AM

".....the tight folkies had actually drunk three pubs dry by last night"

As has been said many times, drinking is not included.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 May 08 - 02:26 PM

well as you say melodeon boy - there are some great festival line ups - but surely you've been through the experience where you think - I wouldn't mind going there, that's a nice place! then you look at the line up and you think..........well its a long way.....five miles, so I've got to listen to that lot and drive back without getting pissed.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: growler
Date: 06 May 08 - 04:54 PM

I can't get my head round what I'm seeing on this thread. I play in the same band as Melodeonboy and despite the fact, that he has the fashion sense of the average ardvark, most of our gigs are to raise funds of good causes, unlike the lottery.
These have included , Kent Air Ambulance, Amaus and Val's favourite, The Anthony Nolan Fund.
   All these events have raised a large ammount of money for these charaties.
   So Maxwell, if you ever manage to extract your head from your arse, you will be most wecome to join us

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 06 May 08 - 05:35 PM

Well now Growler, my head can't be extracted from my arse as it was never there in the first place and it's fair play to you for doing all the fine charity work that you do. Of course there are exceptions. Who would be so stupid as to level this accusation at everyone? I admitted ages ago on this thread that I'm generalising but I stick to my initial view that I've met an awful lot of tightfisted folkies down the years. More so than in any other walk of life.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Rasener
Date: 06 May 08 - 05:42 PM

They are tight fisted becuase they don't like you MSH.
Folkies are very kind and will always offer to buy you a drink, if you are their freind. :-)

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 06 May 08 - 06:00 PM

That suits me Villan and I don't like them either. I don't want their drinks. I'll happily buy my own because I'm not tightfisted. I'd even buy a coffee at 8am. Now that is radical! :-)

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 May 08 - 06:07 PM

I'm not going to buy you a drink Villan, not because we're not friends (not having knowingly met you) but because I have very little spending money at certain times... so don't make friends with me at the end of the month!

:)

LTS

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Tootler
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:39 PM

MSH,

going back to your origninal post, has it ever occurred to you that there was a mismatch of expectations. That people going to a practice, whatever the location, do not expect a bar to be open. Do not expect there to be tea/coffee and food on offer. So far from being tightfisted, they have simply come prepared based on their previous experiences.

Your friend's expectation was different, so as a result he was disappointed.

Geoff

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: GUEST,Maxwell's Silver Hammer
Date: 07 May 08 - 04:45 AM

Geoff - read all of the messages. You're covering old ground mate.

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Rasener
Date: 07 May 08 - 04:57 AM

LTS you are just a tight Folkie LOL :-)

Subject: RE: Tight Folkies
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:03 AM

There's a joke there about a woman waking up with a hangover and an elephant.... let's not go there!

LTS