 sj |
||
|
||
BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.?
|
|
|
Subject: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,mg Date: 13 May 08 - 06:34 PM I am not able to listen to radio, search internet etc. Can people occasionally post an update when results start coming in. Thanks. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Peace Date: 13 May 08 - 06:46 PM No question that Hillary will win big there. But that doesn't really matter. Mississippi will tell people lots more about the realities in November, imo. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: bobad Date: 13 May 08 - 06:51 PM There are 28 delegates at stake in West Virginia. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Bill D Date: 13 May 08 - 08:39 PM She is winning 2 to 1...It may get her 19 out of 26 delegates. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Bill D Date: 13 May 08 - 09:13 PM ...and she is still talking about winning...and demanding Florida & Michigan be seated & counted. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Bobert Date: 13 May 08 - 09:22 PM West Va. Projections: Hillary: 130% Obama: -30% |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Amos Date: 13 May 08 - 09:28 PM Last I saw actual returns it was 56-38. A bit better than I expected Barack to do. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Amos Date: 13 May 08 - 09:30 PM Whoops! With 23% returned it is: DemocratsVote %WV DelTotal Del* Clinton 63% 15 1,712 Obama 30% 3 1,877 |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Guest is Q Date: 13 May 08 - 11:04 PM |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Guest is Q Date: 13 May 08 - 11:11 PM Whoops! I hit enter on my keyboard. It activates a post. Joe was supposed to figure out why. Anyway, here is a song I propose for Hillary- Hillary, Hillary, Brave, courageous and bold; Long live her fame And long live her glory, And long may her story be told! Now who out there remembers the TV show which had that bit of doggerel as the theme song? Another name, of course. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Ebbie Date: 13 May 08 - 11:16 PM Davy! Davy Crocket! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: catspaw49 Date: 13 May 08 - 11:25 PM Wyatt Earp starring Hugh O'Brian Actually the series was called something like "The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp" or something like that. I was a hooked 6 year old as I recall. I even ordered a "Buntline Special" toy six shooter with the looonnnggg barrel. I think there was a life lesson there too.
The Buntline WAS in fact a legend as I later found out and no real proof of its existence was ever found in contemporary accounts short of Earp's own.....and old Wyatt was known to spin a yarn now and again. When mine came in the mail after waiting for what seemed an eternity, it turned out to be a cheap plastic thing which broke the first time I played with it. I was totally heartbroken as only a 6 year old can be when a dream goes poof. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Q as guest Date: 14 May 08 - 12:20 AM The top banana is Catspaw. The rotten banana goes to - no, she doesn't deserve that. Earp had an Army Colt single action, with 12-inch barrel, not a special model, that he used to whack drunk cowboys with, but no one seems to know what he used after he left Kansas. Davy! Davy Crocket! King of the wild frontier. Now those were the good old days of TV. I think Hillary could gun down McCain if they met in the Fall shootout, but McCain would easily take Obama down. The WVA result is a clear warning. It may be too late for the Demos to reconsider and reorganize. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Janie Date: 14 May 08 - 01:03 AM The significance of West Virginia, is not the number of delegates at stake. West Virginia is a blue collar State with a very small minority population. 2006 US Census estimates are that the population is 94.9% White. 3.3% of the population is African-American, which means all other minority populations are miniscule. The pundits and the Clinton campaign think Clinton's strong showing there demonstrates that she is more electable, assuming the the importance of the the White, blue collar vote to the the success of the Democratic nominee. 27% of the population is under age 18, and just over 15% is over age 65. I'm guessing the average age of registered voters in WV is higher than the national average. Given the atypical demographics of WV, a 30% showing for Obama ain't too bad. My West Virginia family all voted for Clinton. If Obama wins the nomination, they will all vote for him in the general election. However, my family is somewhat atypical for West Virginia in this day and age, and also tend to be straight party Democrats - an increasingly rare breed anywhere. Given the State demographics, the fact that nationally, the Democratic party is more pro environment than are the Republicians, (McCain;s recent noises re: global warming not withstanding), and the reality that any kind of economic survival for in the foreseeable future for the State depends on free rein to continue to rape the environment, West Virginia's electoral votes will go to McCain if Obama wins the nomination. It is the electoral college that determines the election (don't we all know that!) When the demographics are examined state by state, it is clear we are in for a real horse race come November. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Bobert Date: 14 May 08 - 07:21 AM Well, it looks as if Hillary took 67% and Obama 26% in West Virginia... In exit polls 91% of the voters said that "race was a factor" in their vote... Having lived in Wess Virginia from 1985 to 2006 I am surprised that Obama got 1 in 4 votes... Other than Janie, I don't know anyone who lives in WV who would have voted for Obama... And darned few who would have voted for Clinton either... I suspect some level of mischief here with Republican voters voting in the Dem primary... I think we will see this in the remaining primaries as well... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 14 May 08 - 07:44 AM I see that according to the morning papers, the Obama campaign strategy for West Virginia is to completely ignore it, as if no primary took place. That should cheer everyone up. The fingers in their ears, screaming "lalalalalalalal" strategy. That'll capture the White House in November fer sure, especially when you add in the fact they are using the same strategy in Florida and Michigan. Ignore the white working class voters (which no Democratic president has ever won without, I might add), and hope they'll go away strategy. You combine that with Obama's shitty record on immigration and his being in the pockets of the energy conglomerates, and McCain already looks like the more liberal and moderate of the two. I dunno. This bloc of voters has never been predictably Democratic since Ronnie Ray Guns shot his way into town. When Dean came in as party leader, he said his main priority was to woo them back to the party fold. How ya gonna do that with Obama and his huge negatives (Wright, his shenanigans w/the Canadians over NAFTA, etc) with white working class voters, whose loyalty can't be assumed? I mean, it's pretty damn arrogant of the Obama campaign to say they won't bother with WV in the fall either, and that they are already counting on the Clinton supporters to vote for him instead of McCain in the fall. This campaign is starting to look more like the same old arrogant Democrat crap people hate the Democrats for all the time. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: pdq Date: 14 May 08 - 08:06 AM The power base of the Democratic party is union workers, some of whom are blue collar. Not really the same as blue collar workers as a whole. The democrats also expect all non-White folks, homosexuals and criminals (including organized crime) to join their coalition of union members, academics, professional politicians and the wealthy elite (see John Kerry, Babs Streisand, George Soros, etc.). I don't see any attempt to get the common working people into the Democrat's big tent. By ignoring us and they will lose most elections outside the big urban centers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 14 May 08 - 08:14 AM While I don't agree completely with your portrayals of the Democrats' preferred demographic voter blocs, pdq, I do think you may be right in your assessment with the union voters. It doesn't matter to them who their union leadership endorses, and Ronald Reagan proved that, in spades. If you look at the wildcat shutdown of the west coast ports on May Day, and even more importantly, the beginnings of a nascent coalition with immigration rights groups who are the only potential new union recruits in this country in a very long time, and the Obama camp just cannot afford to get this wrong. The Latino voting bloc isn't in his corner, and if he keeps dissing the working class and low income voters of color outside the African American community, and you have a real problem come November. Because if the unions can't get the rank and file out to work the streets for Obama in the fall, then Obama is doomed as a candidate. I mean, he is going to need more than just the solidly middle class public sector unions to win. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Riginslinger Date: 14 May 08 - 08:17 AM Yeah, Obama is shaping up to be a pretty weak candidatet. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Amos Date: 14 May 08 - 08:27 AM Jesus, Rig, that i s pure bull. Don't you do mathematics? A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 14 May 08 - 08:41 AM People should also be concerned with the voters and supporters Obama seems to be attracting--uniters they ain't, no matter what Obama's rhetoric says. It seems to me the Obama campaign has racially polarized Democrats in a way they haven't been since 1968, and his core supporters are some of the most divisive folk in the electorate--they appear more and more like the Rove Republicans every day. To win in November, Obama can't afford to alienate Clinton's voters. Yet, alienate them they do. We'll see if the white male working class voters abandon the party and cross back over to the Republicans this cycle. We'll see if the Latino voters abandon the party again, and go to McCain in at least the same numbers they crossed over to Bush in 2000, because McCain is so much better on immigration than Obama is. In other words, the two voting blocs the Obama camp is counting on to stay with him, haven't supported him in the primaries, and also have been swing voters since the Reagan days. To assume they will swing to Obama this time is a very dangerous assumption to be making, IMO. And it is an assumption based more on arrogant denial, than historical and present day realities. I honest to god don't have a clue who will win in November if the #1 issue is "it's the economy, stupid", because that issue for McCain and Obama both, is their weakest. And does anyone think we can pull off enough of an economic recovery by the fall for the #1 issue for voters NOT to be the economy? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Bobert Date: 14 May 08 - 09:36 AM Well, one thing is for sure anmd that is the Mc/Mc/Mc spinster are up to their usual bag ot tricks this morning... Obama has won 3 states by more than 60% of the vote... Does that make McClinton look like a weak candidiate.. This is pure racism in disguise... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Amos Date: 14 May 08 - 09:59 AM It seems to me the Obama campaign has racially polarized Democrats in a way they haven't been since 1968 This is just selective myopia in play, Fantz. The divisiveness in the Dem campaign has entirely stemmed from the media making a huge horserace out of it. A |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Jim Lad Date: 14 May 08 - 11:30 AM "The divisiveness in the Dem campaign has entirely stemmed from the media making a huge horse race out of it." Finally, Amos got something right. It's all about colour now and that lies squarely on the shoulders of the media. Blacks for Obama, Whites for Clinton. Like many onlookers, I have turned away in disgust. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Bobert Date: 14 May 08 - 12:29 PM yeah, but it didn'y have to happen like this... The Clinton's thought they were ***entitled*** to another 8 years... When they found themselves behind in the 4th quarter it was "Hail Mary" time, which meant playing the race card and play it they have... ... and the media has jumped right in, as well... Hey, Rev. Wright is a friggin Boy Scout compared to some of the skelatons rattlin' 'round the Clinton closets but the media doesn't seem to bothered with diggin' 'round in there... Like I have said... McMedia doesn't want a black man in the "White" House... B~ |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Guest is Q Date: 14 May 08 - 12:56 PM Missouri was also a wake-up call to the Democrats. Although the vote was split almost 50-50, a look at the map shows that Obama carried only the cities of St. Louis, Kansas City and Jefferson City. The entire state outside of these cities was solidly for Clinton. Only 5 of 141 counties showed a majority for Obama. One may duplicate the results across the country. Much of the Obama 'lead' was engineered in the caucus votes, which never attract 'middle' Americans because they appear to them as elite closed circles. I have just about reached the point of putting my money on McCain, although I fear nothing innovative will come from his leadership. Of course, a Democratic president in the White House can only accomplish so much in a divided Congress, which is a certainty. A moderate advance in health care, legislation encouraging development of nuclear and other energy sources, possible legislation leading to a partial solution of immigration problems, and a gradual realization that the Middle East conflicts cannot be resolved by the American military or by thwarting legitimate Middle East aspirations or ignoring their complex demographics and cultures, are perhaps the best we can hope for. 'Change' will come slowly regardless of the outcome. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,mg Date: 14 May 08 - 02:40 PM I don't think at all he has stirred the racism pot. It is there, it is steaming underneath the surface, and can easily be brought to a boil, which is exactly what creepy Hillary is doing. She is trying to tap right into that, which is something decent people would not do. She is evil, plain and simple. In the long run, it might be best to get more out in the open, but of course it will affect the election, but hopefully people who believe in civil rights etc. will prevail. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Riginslinger Date: 14 May 08 - 06:14 PM The only evil figure I've seen in the whole thing is Reverend Jeremiah Wright, at least so far. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Ron Davies Date: 14 May 08 - 10:13 PM Q-- You haven't learned any more as a Guest, it seems. McCain could easily take Obama down? We'll see. Doesn't look good for McCain at this point. 1) Polls already about even--and that's before Obama's bounce when Hillary finally bows out. 2) The US--including Republicans---is thoroughly sick of Bush. Obama's theme will be: Do you want a Bush 3rd term? And it's a winning theme. 3) The US mood is more sour than it's been in a long time. "Throw the bums out" always starts with the president's party. 4) There are huge numbers of new Democrats, including young people and black people--who joined because of Obama. Added to this are large numbers of independents--including, for sure, anybody who wants to end the Iraq war, and that includes some Republicans. As I recall, you subscribe to the rather dubious notion that "we have to fight al-Qaeda there or they will follow us home", totally disregarding the fact that Iraqi Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds hate al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda will have its hands full surviving in Iraq--not exactly in posture to take over Iraq, despite your delusions. 5) Many women now say they want Hillary or nobody. But many more realize that they must keep McCain from having a chance to name a Supreme Court justice if they want to preserve Roe v Wade. So they must vote for the Democratic nominee--whoever that person is. And it will be Obama. The first group will be persuading the second group. 6) Then there's the Hispanic vote. Obama will be coming out strongly for a path to ciizenship for all illegal immigrants. As I've noted elsewhere, this puts McCain in a box. Either he also supports this idea--and loses the Tancredo true believers--or he opposes it--and his portion of the Hispanic vote plunges from the 40% GWB got in 2004--which more than made the difference in a very close election. It looks as if McCain will be left with the racists and the under-educated. That's not a majority. If I didn't know better, I'd think your prediction is based on frustrated schadenfreude--since so far all your predictions have come to nothing, to put it mildly. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Ron Davies Date: 14 May 08 - 10:15 PM "path to citizenship" |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Q as guest Date: 15 May 08 - 12:31 AM Yes, we will see. Nothing I have seen suggests a sweep for the Obamites. A few comments on Ron Davies free-wheeling digressions- I'll make a few myself. I said nothing about fighting Al Qaeda. They are a small group who flourish in troubled areas; they are not representative of any of the Muslim nations. Cooperative efforts towards solving problems would be the be the best way to minimize them. This means cooperation with Syrians, Iranians, et al.; not one of the candidates has said anything helpful in this regard- and why should only Israel have nuclear capabilities in the Middle east? I did say in other words that current American ideas that the Taliban is a group that can be fought in the same way as Al Qaeda is laughable; they are the 'young Turks' of the Pashtun people, a conservative cultural group of many millions in Afganistan and Pakistan. They will control Afganistan fully again. Have you written that speech for Obama in which he comes out strongly for that citizenship path for all illegal immigrants? Hmmm, I just might support him if he ever did that. A steal from Bush, of course. And wasn't Bush pushing for it but Congress turned him back? I have also suggested that Congress will remain strongly divided after the election; the extravagant and childish claims that humungous change will prevail will fizzle. Hope for a few improvements in health care, a considered and careful withdrawal from the mess we made in the Middle East, and a few baby steps towards sustainable, varied energy sources that can supplant some of the current oil-coal base. Now back to West Virginia- or is that now just old news, with no lessons to be learned from it? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 15 May 08 - 07:54 AM Don't think you'll find many people in Mudcat to talk about West Virginia with, because the majority here support Obama. If it is bad news for Obama, they either ignore it or shout down the messengers and villify them. That is the "Yes We Can" strategy, it seems, at least on the ground. What should worry a lot of folks is the sheer nastiness of a certain percentage of Obama's supporters. The hate mongers who are the mirror image of the Rove Republicans. We even have a few of them here in Mudcat. Those folks are already causing problems, because they keep alienating the very voters they need to attract for Obama to win in November. He can't win without the white working class voters. He doesn't need to win all of them, of course. Just the vast majority of them. And he isn't doing really well with that group, as the WV landslide victory for Clinton just demonstrated. And a victory like that after Obama's supposed "come back" in North Carolina, is pretty ominous for the general election trends. They don't all have to switch to McCain for Obama to lose. Just enough of them, while the rest stay home & sit this election out. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 15 May 08 - 07:59 AM What about "the sheer nastiness of a certain percentage of Obama's opponents"? We even have a few of them here in Mudcat... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Ron Davies Date: 15 May 08 - 08:28 AM As I've said elsewhere, WV proves nothing except that racism still exists and that Obama has to repeat ad nauseam that he is in fact a patriotic Christian -- not a Moslem-- who rejects Wright's outlandish remarks. And that his wife is also not an atheist but a patriotic American Christian who does the same. Eminently do-able between now and November. McCain has 3 serious problems--any of which can cost him the election. 1) Sour mood of the US--throw the bums out. And as you note in the recent special elections, it's Republicans who are being tossed out---in Republican districts. 2) He's tied to GWB--instant revulsion in many quarters 3) He has to reach beyond his base to win--especially independents. But whenever he does, his base threatens to revolt a) illegal immigration--Tancredo fire-eaters will alienate Hispanics and other thinking beings. b) climate change--WSJ came out yesterday against his cap-and-trade idea. c) health reform--base will not allow it unless "market based"--a bandaid for a gaping wound |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 15 May 08 - 08:38 AM And your pig headed, bigoted stereotyping of the white working class is a perfect example of how to lose the election for Obama. Or have you forgotten, the white working class doesn't control the MSM? And they've been the race baiting scapegoats this election cycle far more than Rev Wright has. But don't hide your contempt for the working class folks, Ron. Tell us how your white elitist ass truly feels about them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Riginslinger Date: 15 May 08 - 08:43 AM "And your pig headed, bigoted stereotyping of the white working class is a perfect example of how to lose the election for Obama." And the same charge has been leveled at Hispanics. We've seen blacks in the south vote enmasse, but why would we expect Hispanics to do that? I don't think they will. They haven't in the past. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Fantasma Date: 15 May 08 - 08:59 AM Not to worry, I'm sure all of Ron Davies best middle class elitist friends are black. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Q as guest Date: 15 May 08 - 03:17 PM Voting outside of major urban centers in Missouri as well as West Virginia show that the 'working class' vote for Clinton included the small shopkeeper, business man and the average farmer as well as what used to be known as 'working class' 50 or more years ago. The reasons for Clinton support are complex, understandable for women, but the lukewarm support from men is just another signal that many of them will vote for the certainties of McCain come the Fall election. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Peace Date: 15 May 08 - 07:04 PM "Yeah, Obama is shaping up to be a pretty weak candidatet." Keep sayin' that often enough, Rig, and you'll start believing it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Riginslinger Date: 15 May 08 - 07:23 PM Weak candidate! Weak candidate! Weak candidate! Weak... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Bobert Date: 15 May 08 - 07:24 PM He's not really formulating that opinion, Brucie... It is the PR thing that the Mc 'n Mc camps are putting out... So it is parroting... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Peace Date: 15 May 08 - 07:28 PM Betcha can't say the word gullible ten times fast . . . . |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Bill D Date: 15 May 08 - 07:37 PM "I'm sure all of Ron Davies best middle class elitist friends are black." Funny, I don't look black. And I know a couple dozen of Ron's 'elitist' friends who aren't either. Hey Fanta...are you FOR anyone or anything? Or just get off throwing stones at everyone else's ideas? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Peace Date: 15 May 08 - 07:50 PM "Not to worry, I'm sure all of Ron Davies best middle class elitist friends are black." I'm one of Ron's friends and last I looked I'm a kinda pale skinned guy. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Ron Davies Date: 15 May 08 - 10:38 PM Gee, Janet, sounds like you still haven't found that stronger tranquilizer you need. Please keep looking--for your own sake, not for ours. We still appreciate your entertainment value, I can assure you. It's also fascinating that for all your foaming at the mouth, you haven't managed to even begin to address any of the arguments I brought up as to why McCain has problems. One might think you're bankrupt of ideas--though foul language comes easily to you. Some say that's the surest sign of mental bankruptcy. But I'm sure that's not the case for you. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Ron Davies Date: 15 May 08 - 10:52 PM And by the way, I stereotype nobody. But I have run across some classic remarks by WV voters--such as the observation that the voter in question could not vote for Obama since he was a Moslem and his wife was an atheist. Other variations have included the objection that he did not salute the flag and that he agreed with Rev. Wright's outlandish remarks--despite his clear rejection of them on more than one occasion. And Hillary was kind enough to assure the WV voters that she realized white workers were important. Now why do you suppose she had to mention the workers were white? You might be aware that if you try hard enough you can always find a reason other than the real one to vote against somebody. And as I've pointed out, many people, including many blue-collar workers in WV, just don't know him well enough--an omission he can easily remedy by November. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Guest is Q Date: 16 May 08 - 12:20 AM Blue collar labor is becoming hard to define, since government figures include both skilled and unskilled workers. Manufacturing jobs are decreasing- moving offshore or increasingly automated, requiring technical expertise in computers and machines. Growing, and now often defined as blue collar, are in communications, law enforcement, transportation and crafts. U. S. government figures show that 32% of craft workers have some college experience, or have graduated. Many in communications, commerce, law enforcement, computers, etc., have attended schools like DeVry, Phoenix and dozens of state institutions. Plumbers, electricians, mechanics, gas and steam fitters and construction workers require licenses in order to practice, and technical school training is required for many of these jobs. Installation, maintenance and repair work is increasingly more technical. Immigrants, legal or illegal, do the cleaning, fruit picking, etc. There are still some jobs 'working for the city' but even these require knowledge of equipment, etc., in many cases. In other words, the old 'blue collar' worker who worked on an assembly line or in the mills is disappearing. In Pennsylvania, about 22% of workers are classed as blue collar, and this now includes many with training, and a spread in wages. Improved education is a must- Unfortuntely, the number who graduate even at high school level is only around 50% in many large city schools. The people who drop out have few chances at middle class life. The candidates have not addressed the problems. Speeches do not revive obsolete jobs. "No child left behind" is empty rhetoric in too many cases. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Riginslinger Date: 16 May 08 - 12:40 PM Q - I agree with everything you say above. I'm still a little puzzled about why those displcaced people flock to Hillary. I have one observation. These are the people who have been hurt the most by illegal immigration, affirmative action, and minority set-aside programs. But when they voice their opposition to these things, the media happily labels the "racist." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: GUEST,Q as guest Date: 16 May 08 - 03:54 PM 'Illegal immigration' does not hurt anyone; the numbers are small and a threat only in the minds of bigots, or ranters like Lew Dobbs. Without them fruit and perishable vegetables would go unpicked and washrooms would not get cleaned- the 'blue collar' so-called will not take these jobs. Because the immigrants often work together, they not only subsist on low wages but are able to send a little back 'home.' They are a worldwide phenomenon, the impact is much greater in western Europe than in the United States. Affirmative action had good intentions, but it put one group of disadvantaged above another- both groups need the chance at education and jobs. The United States and Canada are falling behind in educating the population for the workplace. China is expected to have more 'middle class' people than the United States in the next census, and India is not far behind. (Of course, large numbers are still mired in third-world conditions, but in the cities the demand for education and the quality of the schools is amazing). |
|
Subject: RE: BS: How is West Virginia doing in elect.? From: Riginslinger Date: 16 May 08 - 04:21 PM Illegal immigration hurts everyone I know, but maybe those are the only ones. |
