Folk Club Manners

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 10:34 AM

From: David el Gnomo - PM
"As we have a wealth of excelent singers and residents plus regular visitors including such notories as Stanley Accrington. Geoff Higginbottom and Gary and Vera Aspey there is never any question of someone with a poor performance record even wanting to do a floor spot."

Sorry to keep on, but I wanted to explain what really got my back up about this comment. It's the idea that someone wouldn't _want_ to do a floor spot because "excellent" performers, including several people of whom I've never heard, but may be fine people and wonderful performers. Nor do I know what a floor spot is, but I assume it involves performing and I'm sure I could find out without too much trouble. But why on earth should anyone expect that a person wouldn't want to sing his "Jimmy Crack-corn" or his "Big Rock Candy Mountain" just because someone "better" was in the room? That's not what music's about, for me, and certainly not folk music; at least, I'm clinging to the hope that it isn't.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 10:22 AM

From: David el Gnomo - PM
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:53 PM

"Piers, I presume you did realise thet notorieties was the word and that you will forgive my sticky keyboard and poor typing skills. I can laugh at myself and my mistakes but really do consider it poor form to mock those less than proficient. In social skills as well as technical:-)"

I finished what I wrote below and I've been sitting here wondering how to apologize for my "poor form" and for mocking at what you wrote, and perhaps it's not nice of me, but I don't feel very apologetic. The truth is, I think you have some rather harsh words for poor performers   , or ones you consider poor and I think someone who's ready to dish it out should be prepared to take it. On the other hand, you didn't name any names and some people are sensitive about mistakes in spelling, grammar, etc., so I can see that you might have found my comment below the belt. So, I do apologize, though I still have some objections to what you've written, as I say below. I'm sorry that this isn't more gracious, but it's honest.

******

No, I didn't. I thought it might be a cross between "notables" and "luminaries" with perhaps an element of "notorious" or "notoriousness" thrown in. I'm sorry if this hurts your feelings, but I don't think "notorieties" is a word, either, nor do I believe that "notoriety" is a word that can refer to a person and "notoriety" isn't really something positive.

On the subject of hurting peoples' feelings, your postings rather left me with the impression that you might be a bit thicker-skinned, considering a couple of things you wrote, such as these quotes, which I have just cut and pasted, not edited:

"Poor performance is of course as discourteous as anything the audience does and, at the risk of getting shot down in flames as I have been before, I find some peoples performances can be downright embarasing."

"I really cannot understand why anyone but the most insensitive and dense people would feel that their poor performance warrant priority over paid artists. Particularly when people have parted with their hard earned cash to see someone good. There has never been anyone at our club, as far as I know, who has not understood that there may be people better suited to the circumstance than them and has not had the good grace to stand down when the need arises."

I do understand that a person running a club has to make sure he or she makes money and I can see the sense in some of what you write. However, to call it "discourteous" to get up on stage and try to perform or to use terms like "insensitive" and "dense" doesn't encourage me to seek out a folk club to perform. Nor does the idea of "being jumped on from a great height", for which, of course, you're not responsible.

"And no, it doesn't mean that someone who has been told they can perform is then asked not to. It means that our club residents and regulars all have enough common sense to understand that they cannot all get on on a guest night so they don't ask. Anyone who is ever invited to perform always gets to do so."

People who are invited. Perhaps I wasn't following the discussion, but I got the impression that it could be open-mike or a singaround (something I wasn't familiar with before), so that I wasn't referring to people who had been _invited_ to perform, but rather people who had shown up in the expectation that they could and perhaps had put their names down on the list. I imagined some "big-name" folk musician walking in the door and people being put to the end of the list. Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick.

"I heard a good phrase yesterday. It's a shame that common sense isn't..."

I think most people show plenty of "common sense" when it comes to their own interest. I wish that kindness and tolerance were more common. I don't think anyone goes into the business of running a club with the idea of making a fortune and I do understand your point of view --- up to a point.

For various reasons, I haven't gotten out much in recent years and don't have friends to play music with. I love to play and have practiced a lot and would quite like to perform at an open-mike night or something similar. I do suffer from stage-fright and have some other problems so that this goal is not my top priority. Some of the postings in this thread have made me feel a lot less like doing it.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Acorn4
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:34 AM

One problem with children is that with evening sessions some folk humour can become rather ribald. Should watershed rules apply?

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 09:20 AM

We had kerfuffle on last week and I had 2 families bring along a 6 year old and a 10 year old.
I talked to them about keeping quite whilst the acts were on. I said that if they made too much noise, they would have to leave. The parents accepted that and I let the children in for nowt.
They werte well behaved and consequently no problems.
So it is possible Barbara, but the parents need to be made responsible and understand the terms that their children are allowed in.
Les

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: TheSnail
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:58 AM

B%$*&^! Somebody eat my cookie. Last Guest was me.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:56 AM

I was the MC last night when John Kirkpatrick was the guest. It took a bit of organising but I managed to get everybody on for a floorspot that wanted one.

Nobody walked out demanding their money back. John didn't complain. A good time was had by all.

One new face said he'd like to sing next time. We didn't thrust an application form into his hand demanding three references and a demo DVD, we said "Great. See you next week." He may be awful; he may be brilliant. From past experience of such things, he'll probably be OK.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: jimslass
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:36 AM

when I began learning fiddle, I was encouraged, quite early on, to play at our folk club. I was desperatley nervous, scraped through my number and received rapturous applause. The members were and still are extremely kind and supportive. Other 'not perfect by any means' folks take their turns along with some very accomlished performers.

I've practised and improved (loads of room for more improvement) and now do a regular turn. Recently one of the 'accomplished' performers told me he remembered my first 'scrape' and said how well I was coming along. Can't describe how good thast felt.

I now play with a number of other folks in various settings - and I wouldn't be at the stage I'm at had it not been for those first awkward attempts and the kindness and encouragement with which they were received.

There are often people who sing or play at our club who you think really ought not, but they deserve their chance, and are greatly outnumbered by great performances and 'join-in-alongs'

If things get too excruciating, then the organisers should have a quiet, supporive, diplomatic word, but on the whole, let's give people chance to express themselves and do our bit by being considerate while others are performing, and prepare ourselves by practising and learning our 'spots'.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: BB
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 08:33 AM

Talking about manners, last night a woman who had won a 'free entry' in the raffle at the last concert, duly arrived with two teenagers for whom she happily paid admission, plus a toddler of two or so. They stayed at the back of the room and the toddler played on the floor, so there was obviously some thought being taken. Unfortunately, it's not possible for a child of that age to stay quiet, or understand why it should do so, for the best part of three hours, nor can you tell them to just whisper, so frequently a serious or quiet song was totally destroyed by said child's voice.

My own feeling is that children of that age should never be taken into this sort of situation where inevitably other people's enjoyment will be spoilt. What do the panel think?

Barbara

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:34 AM

I `ad that Dave el Gnomo in my cab the other day and `e was looking well disturbed.
`e said, " take me to `arley Street please, I gotta` get some counselling"
I said, "What, working stress or something?"
`e said "Nah, it`s all them on that Mudcat. They want me to put tossers on the nights we got paid guests. They`re doin` my `ead in. What would you do with `em, eh?"
I said ,"What, the tossers? Charge `em twice the ante. You might get a few punters and guests rattled for a while but at least you`d be quids in!!"

Whaddam I like??

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 07:15 AM

Thanks Tim, spot on acorn and...


300!

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Acorn4
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:45 AM

I agree with the last post. When I go into a club I always aassume that it's the organisers' prerogative to run things how he/she/they want. If you don't like it there are plenty of other clubs.

Those that show respect and support for all do tend to get the bigger attendance though.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 06:41 AM

There you are,I knew you all couldnt be as grumpy,or as elistist as some of the posts read earlier.
Seems reasonable to try and please a paying audience dont it?
And all those other nights for the rest of us.
I think those that organise our music and venues for us deserve a bit more support and gratitude than we often give them to be honest.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:56 AM

Oh yea - Tim says We all have to start somewhere and at some level.

I agree entirely. Some could start by practising a bit more but, be that as it may, that is exactly why we have singers nights on 28 Mondays a year. What amazes me is that even though there is ample opportunity to 'practice in public' on these singers nights there are people here complaining that we should put everyone on on the other 24 Mondays as well!

Walks of shaking his head disconsolately...

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Acorn4
Date: 26 Oct 08 - 05:48 AM

On the question of being well practised.

One or two postings on this thread have refeered to malking sure that you're well rehearsed before a singaround.

What I find is that, more often than not, I don't decide what I'm going to do before going to one.
Singarounds often have their own momentum and you can practice up a couple of songs to perfection only to find that they just don't suit the particular mood at the time, or perhaps you want to link to a subject someone else has done in a song.

I think, once you've got a reasonably broad repertoire, it's better to choose one that suits the mood of the moment, as long as you can make a reasonable job of it, rather than "I'm going to do this one and this one whatever..."

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 06:36 PM

well Tim, I think you just have to face facts. Its not just folk clubs where people say nasty things behind your back - its life itself.

Take that David Cameron - nice chap, but some people think he's a bit of a tosser.
Gordon Brown - not content with a career as a number one song title for the Stranglers, he keeps popping up on telly. What a twat! he never makes me laugh.

If either of them came round our folk club and asked for a floorspot - well I suppose it would depend on whether the usual gang was on holiday. But really I'd say no! You're not in the tradition, and I don't like the cut of your jib.

Frankly, I wouldn't trust either of them with the raffle ticket money.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:53 PM

Piers, I presume you did realise thet notorieties was the word and that you will forgive my sticky keyboard and poor typing skills. I can laugh at myself and my mistakes but really do consider it poor form to mock those less than proficient. In social skills as well as technical:-)

And no, it doesn't mean that someone who has been told they can perform is then asked not to. It means that our club residents and regulars all have enough common sense to understand that they cannot all get on on a guest night so they don't ask. Anyone who is ever invited to perform always gets to do so.

John of Kemsing - where do I say only those considered competent are invited to perform or that it may upset the artists? All I am saying is that when a very limited mumber of support spots are available we owe it to the majority of he audience to put on the best available. How else would we have been able to run the club sucessfuly for over 25 years?

I heard a good phrase yesterday. It's a shame that common sense isn't...

Hope this answers your questions but if anyone is ever in Swinton on a Monday just make sure that it is on a singers night if you want to make sure you perform:-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Geoff Wallis
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:54 PM

Just for the record, Knockcroghery does not mean 'hill of the hangman'! The 'hanging' element of the name refers to a ring-fort perched on a hill.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 03:18 PM

Al - (23rd Psalm for those who don't know it)

As I was walking down the street one day
I saw a club on fire
There was a singer standing on a table
And he was sore afraid
Jump, you fucker jump
Jump into this tankard wot we are holding
And you will be all right.

He jumped,
Hit the stage
Broke his guitar's neck
For we had drunk the tankard

Laugh? We nearly shat!
We had not laughed so much since Lonnie died
Or Martin Carthy tuned his guitar in a trice
We are judgmental folkies
Aran jumpers
Ah -ah -ah -ah -ah soles.

WIth apologies to Derek and Clive live!

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,Amber
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:37 PM

You've said it Tim. Good for you!

Amber

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:30 PM

"Well Tim you would be most welcome at our club. Just have a little consideration for the poor bloody fools that have to listen, and do your best."
LOL CHeers mate.
I guess you heard me before.
I never had the misfortune to be made to feel uncomfortable at any of clubs we have managed to get too,but reading the thread could give the wrong impression(or maybe the Right one?)to anyone thinking of being brave and having a go.
Honestly any would be performers out there,give your local club or group a try and I bet you will never look back.
We all have to start somewhere and at some level.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 12:24 PM

From: David el Gnomo - PM
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 06:21 AM

"As we have a wealth of excelent singers and residents plus regular visitors including such notories as Stanley Accrington. Geoff Higginbottom and Gary and Vera Aspey [...]"

That must be handy, if anyone needs something notorized.

"There has never been anyone at our club, as far as I know, who has not understood that there may be people better suited to the circumstance than them and has not had the good grace to stand down when the need arises."

Stand down? Does this mean someone who had been told or led to believe he or she could perform a song or two might get "asked" to stand aside? If I saw a musician being treated with such discourtesy, I'd be out the door before you could say "Jack Robinson".

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Silas
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 10:43 AM

Well Tim you would be most welcome at our club. Just have a little consideration for the poor bloody fools that have to listen, and do your best.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 10:39 AM

Hopefuly when we visit any of your clubs
all this apparent snobbery and sillyness would not be obvious to us.
It seem to me that the atmosphere must be awfully uncomfortable with all this unpleasentnes going on behind the scenes.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,Calm Voice
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 10:10 AM

What puzzles me is that surely most of these clubs will have some kind of committee? Here is where issues should be discussed like whether or not people should have mobile phones switched to a silent mode and whether people are allowed to talk while a performer is performing. The club organisers and in particular the MC for the evening, will then know what club policy to try and enforce.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing.
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 08:50 AM

David el Gnomo,
               Referring to your second paragraph, I don`t remember you saying that floor singers were claiming priority over paid guests. I recall you saying that on guest nights only those who you considered competent enough were invited to perform; do you feel their presence would upset your guests?.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 06:21 AM

Do the people who would not be considered good enough to sing on guest nights know their status and do they come back to the club?

Simple answer - yes to both.

Complex answer. On a guest night we want to give the paying audience value for money, so we put the guest on for as long as possile - Usualy at least 2 x 45 minute slots. This means we are limited to letting 2 singers on in the first half and two in the second. As we have a wealth of excelent singers and residents plus regular visitors including such notories as Stanley Accrington. Geoff Higginbottom and Gary and Vera Aspey there is never any question of someone with a poor performance record even wanting to do a floor spot.

I really cannot understand why anyone but the most insensitive and dense people would feel that their poor performance warrant priority over paid artists. Particularly when people have parted with their hard earned cash to see someone good. There has never been anyone at our club, as far as I know, who has not understood that there may be people better suited to the circumstance than them and has not had the good grace to stand down when the need arises.

Does that answer your question John of Kemsing?

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:58 AM

"Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,James H - PM

Piers,

well done you for having such a single minded approach. If that is what works for you, go for it.

Doesn't mean that's what works for everybody though, surely?"

(And in response to other postings)

Yes, people do more than one thing at the same time. The point of the story about Milt Kahl and Richard Williams is that one does one's best work when one concentrates on one thing at a time. I have found this to be confirmed in my own work. It's just a piece of advice, one can take it or leave it.

Richard Bridge, I play the guitar and sing at the same time, and I also play the guitar and the harmonica at the same time. If I could figure out how, I would do all three at once. It is a compromise. Life is full of compromises. I can play more complicated things if I'm not singing, and I can certainly sing better if I didn't play the guitar, because I play a classical guitar seated and one doesn't really sing well seated. I don't really practice singing anymore because of physical problems with my voice, but I love songs.

The consequences of eating and reading the newspaper at the same time are usually not serious (though the printer's ink may not taste very good). The consequences of not paying enough attention while driving can be fatal. One can twist and turn and justify and relativize all one wants, but there are traffic fatalities every day. One is free to do with this information what one will; I've said all I can think of on this subject.

I was rather annoyed about the quote from Seung Sahn, which I looked up and found in the internet. I could imagine that it was meant facetiously, as a rueful admissions that he had been caught out not practicing what he preached. However it was meant, I think it's likely to confuse people and not promote their practice of Zen. Yes, I sometimes do two things at once, without paying proper attention to either. Yes, I live in the real world and not a Zen monastery. However, if anyone is interested in my opinion on this subject, I don't think it's a good idea to do two things at once and call it "practicing mindfulness". One would only be fooling oneself.

As far as the (in my opinion, annoyingly trendy) expression "multitasking" (a.k.a. "multishirking") is concerned, I am a computer programmer and what multitasking means on a system with a single processor is that the multiple tasks are performed successively, but only one at a time. True multitasking can only take place on a system with more than one processor. There, multiple tasks can really be performed simultaneously. There is a significant overhead involved in a multitasking application. Lecture on POSIX threads and UNIX system calls available upon request. For a person, I think "multitasking" comes with a considerable cost, too. In life, one often has to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. It's not really conducive to doing one's very best work, though.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: evansakes
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:21 AM

"I don't want to be hearing Beatles songs all bloody night"

There's nothing you can sing that can't be sung (with a little help from your friends).

It's easy!

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 05:17 AM

'I am all for encouraging people with even the slightest amount of potential, but some folk are clearly not cut out for it and need to be jumped on from a very great hight.' writes Silas.

This could be a new feature to bring a bit of excitement back into folkmusic.

Each folkclub could employ a jumper - on a sort of diving board. And if the singing gets really bad the crowd could start chanting - jump! jump! kersplattt! If the jumper missed. We could let him finish the song. We could raffle chances to jump on your favourite folksinger.

Beatles songs all night! Yum! Yum! sounds like my sort of night!

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Silas
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:53 AM

"We do occasionally run workshops, but that doesn't necessarily mean that those who need them most will attend...

Barbara "

And Barbera has hit the nail on the head!

Some of may have come over as being unwelcoming to new talent - this is far from the case, most of us welcome newcomers and are happy to encourage and help beginners. However, it is not unreasonable for us to expect them to have done a little homework before attempting to play and sing in public, and nearly all of them do and good for them.

Some, however, will, after two years or more, still be at the abysmal standard they were when they started - making no effort to improve, learn the words, sing in tune, practice the music and are arrogant enough to think we actually enjoy listening to this shite week after week. We don't, and despite efforts to diplomatically offer advice and assistance, it ends up with a bad feeling in the room (to which the 'artist' is quite oblivious in most cases) and people thinking that if this is what we can expect from this club, there is not much point in coming - we have lost many a good performer because of this.

Another thing that gets on my tits is treating it as an acoustic club when it is a folk club. Do we want to hear sixties pop songs all night? Not me, I can live with the occasional one or two, it can be a bit of a laugh playing 'Honky Tonk Woman' towards the end of a good evening, but I don't want to be hearing Beatles songs all bloody night.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Rasener
Date: 25 Oct 08 - 04:48 AM

Acorn4
Mudcatters who support Gainsborough folk club will be at the concerts
i.e. Mr & Mrs Sooz, BBP, Pwitz, Travelling Audience, Georgiansilver etc

So if you get a chance to drop into the concerts!!!!

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: BB
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:52 PM

Our club meets twice a month, one a singaround-style evening with a collection, the other a concert with a guest where everyone has to pay admission. Everyone is encouraged to perform in some way at the singaround, and if someone needs words in front of them, that is accepted. There are four 15 min. support spots on the concert nights, and if someone is unable to perform without a crib sheet, they are not invited to perform on these nights; likewise if they are not of a 'reasonable' standard, i.e. they can stay in tune, rhythm, or whatever is appropriate. There is a somewhat different audience for the concerts, and we feel that a paying audience is entitled to a certain standard. When the concerts were started, it was also a way of encouraging inexperienced performers to put a set together, rather than just doing one item at a time, and to work towards that requisite 'standard'.

We do occasionally run workshops, but that doesn't necessarily mean that those who need them most will attend...

Barbara

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Acorn4
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 04:07 PM

The other disadvatage with the "leap in" system is that melodeon players ony need a nanosecond to "leap in".

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 03:04 PM

Gainsborough go round in a circle, and everybody is asked if they would like to contribute something, whether it be a joke, verse, song, tune. However if you say no, they respect that, but will still ask you second time round.

That's how it works at the Beech, too. I haven't got much experience of the jump-in-when-you're-ready style of singaround & have to say I find them a bit intimidating - being an unaccompanist, I haven't got any equivalent for the prefatory strumming that tells people there's something coming, so I just have to leap in with both feet or else keep shtum.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:54 PM

Endorse entirely what V says re Gainsbro and If you are near Flaxton Nth Yorks on a wednesday ther is awonderful club there too.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Acorn4
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:52 PM

We'll play it by ear!

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:49 PM

The eight jolly brewers is not normally where the singaround is. Its in a much quiter location. 8 jolly can get very noisy, but it should be good fun.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Acorn4
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:46 PM

We're actually going to try to get to the "Eight Jolly Brewers" some time tomorrow, because, of course, it's the festival.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: jacqui.c
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:34 PM

I can attest to Gainsborough being well worth a visit. It has become my 'local' when I'm visiting the UK and I'll always make time to get to at least one session while I'm there.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:31 PM

Gainsborough go round in a circle, and everybody is asked if they would like to contribute something, whether it be a joke, verse, song, tune. However if you say no, they respect that, but will still ask you second time round.
Some of the regulars, will miss a turn, in order to allow a visitor a chance.
Its a lovely family environment and a lot of laughs are had over the night.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Acorn4
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:25 PM

Yes, it's the difference between organisers who care about the music and about people and those who are "up their own a***s!

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Alan Day
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 02:11 PM

Residents and regulars hold back and priority goes to the visitors some of whom we have never heard before.(The Snail)

What a refreshing change to attend your Folk Club and discover your policy.I have visited a number of clubs where the reverse is the case.One where the resident and presenter made sure he got in twenty five minutes, ten of which was trying to make jokes that did not work,one song that he learnt that day and gave up half way through as he forgot the words,a poorly sung song with a guitar out of tune and the rest of the time tuning it up.One song by their star regulars the rest by the booked group.An offer of tunes during the interval was rudely turned down,this is by a club who's rules policy was that there were no rules and no apologies to any visiting musicians offering to do just five minutes. Suddenly a Club has no visiting musicians and they wonder why.
Al

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST,Amber
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

I certainly will go to Gainsborough Folk Club if I get the chance. Thanks Les.

Amber

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: paula t
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:37 PM

Jim Carroll,

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not naive enough to think that people don't make a judgement of a performance to themselves. We all do - otherwise we wouldn't listen to or perform music. What I meant was I didn't feel that anyone should undermine a person or undervalue their contribution to the social aspect of the evening just because we didn't happen to enjoy that performance.I feel that the attraction of a folk club is the sheer cameraderie of meeting together for the "odd pint" and a sing.

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Rasener
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM

Amber
If you ever get the chance, get to Gainsborough Folk Club. They are one of the best inclusive singarounds that i know of.
Les

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 01:04 PM

If we had started at some of clubs which seem to apply such draconian standards about who or who is not 'permitted to sing' a lot of us would never actually have GOT started. Me, I would prefer a supportive, friendly club where people are encouraged to have a go and people appreciate it, rather than a club with such high standards, yes perhaps with very superior singing and playing, but filled with a load of rude, arrogant individuals (no names mentioned).

You can keep them

Amber

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 09:53 AM

I don't know that I can smell 'troll', Silas, but there's a nasty niff from a a referee . . .

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Aeola
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 08:17 AM

singing along whilst driving is ok with me so long as you don't have to think about it! And if it is something you may wish to learn the more you play it and singalong ( subliminally ) you will probably learn it. As for using a wordsheet whilst performing, it is much better not to, but, in the early stages is again ok with me. The main problem as I see it , is that no matter how well rehearsed you are the nerves can set in when you stand up in front of an audience.Nerves of course affect people in differing degrees. And you all know the story of the guy who stammers when speaking but sings beautifully!

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: Silas
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:46 AM

Sniff sniff, anyone smell troll at all?

Subject: RE: Folk Club Manners
From: TheSnail
Date: 24 Oct 08 - 07:38 AM

Jim Carroll

Snail,
Haven't got time to cover all you points

So you pick on the one where I agree with you?