Aussies ban American Bands

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Chet W.
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 06:58 PM

Could we retroactively ban Olivia Newton John?

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Helen
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 06:07 PM

annap,

Hoges(Paul Hogan) is crass and brash and so on, which I guess can be restated as politically incorrect. But he is also funny, and he likes poking fun at himself and Aussies generally, so that's why I like him.

My favourite scene in the first Crocodile Dundee movie is when the kangaroo starts shooting back - I was crying and laughing at the same time. It appealed to my radical-left leanings - the downtrodden and oppressed fight back.

Helen

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: thosp
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:56 PM

i'm new to the mudcat site --- but i am happy to find (kindred souls)the sprite of friendship that exists here--- my heart does go out to the dissapointed kids (if that's still the case)but gil's wide brush scares me--

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: annamill
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:53 PM

I love vinegar on my french Fries.

Gil, I think maybe , possibly, YOU HAVE OVER REACTED to your emotions. I'm sure there are parents out there who are overspilling with emtions right now and I can understand their anger, but your biased, bigoted, racist, bullshit remarks were unnessecary and might be forgiven if you apologize. Maybe not. All Australians did not make this decision.

I would like all my friends from down under that these sentiments about your country is not generally expressed or felt in the USA. We have a great deal of respect for a country that, like ours, had to fight to survive in what was virtually wilderness.

I love Paul Hogan!! Has he done something politically incorrect that I'm not aware of? Enlighten me.

Love,annap

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Helen
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:50 PM

MatthewB,

I'm appalled at that terrible action of playing Deutschland Uber Alles rather than the Israeli national anthem at the soccer match. If I can make a national apology, even though I am only one Aussie, please accept my heartfelt distress that this happened. There are bigots everywhere, and insensitive people, and it would be nice to live in a fantasy land believing that it doesn't happen in my own back yard, but I know it does. I think I can state with a great degree of certainty that for every one person who thought that was clever, witty, funny or a neat nasty trick there would have been at least 100 people, more than 100, who were saddened or appalled by it.

Thank you for seeing the bigger picture and not rating all Australians as being bigots - although there are more here than I like to contemplate.

Helen

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:31 PM

by the way, Aussie Jeff, get over to the thread called An Irish Tale. Your talents are needed.

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:30 PM

Golly, is everyone ignoring Jeff Kramer? Is that the cold shoulder routine (I thought it was funny as hell--if he is truly an Aussie. If not, maybe a bit scurrilous, but still funny.) Anyway, we have old Gil to thank for a terrific thread. (Apparently his tirade appeared in Oz before it slithered here--as letter to editors?) --seed

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Alice
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:28 PM

on my fries, give me salt only. Isn't it amazing that thread creep has already led us to a subject like potatoes.

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:15 PM

Joe ~~~~I don't know how you can attack the Canadians just because they use gravey on their fries/chips. For years I was a ketchup man, nothing but ketchup on my fries. Then I started sailing up into Canada and in every port that we pulled into they had a bottle of vinegar on the table to use on your chips. Actually, I now prefer the vinegar to the ketchup, however, if possible I use both katchup and vinegar.

By the way, the absolute best place in the world to get fish and chips is in Killarney, Ont. at a place called Mr. Perch which is located in the warf that runs through the town. The fishing boat comes in and ties up quay side ~ where they unload the fish ~ fillet them ~ and cook them fresh. Ya just can't beat that (they even have ketchup for the chips). Hat's off to the Canadians.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 05:04 PM

Heather and I visited our VERY FIRST "Chip Wagon" last year. Now mind you, she is still a UK citizen, having been only living off Canada's bounty for 22 years, so it was up to me to let her know that next to the beaver (shut up Catspaw) the chip wagon is our national symbol. The chips or "patats frits" as EVERY Canadian calls them, were fabulous! I also had (being very patriotic) a back bacon on a bun, while Heather - obviously feeling very Scottish - had a hamburger. We both had catsup (oops I mean Ketchup) Joe.
In the States you'll fight to the death for the right to bear arms. In Canada "We'll fight til we're tired for the right to arm bears".
Rick (a proud Canuck-and that rhymes with duck!)

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Nan
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 03:05 PM

I spent 6 months in Australia and found them to be GREAT people. As for the "acorn doesn't fall far from the tree" bit.....who do you think many of the Americans were that were sent to the new Colonies? Gil, you won't win many converts to your arguement with an opening like that. The Olympic committee blew-it, I think your anger is mis-directed, or at the very least, very nasty and distasteful. Cheers, Nancy

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 02:01 PM

wow...you miss one day...and LOOK!...Now why, I wonder, do those committees not think to post their plans HERE before they dig themselves into such holes! This sensible group would have advised them as to a reasonable course of action!

..There is almost no graceful way out now..I'm sure Australia did not need LOTS of American & Japanese bands to have a nice ceremony...(for some reason, the phrase.."76 Digeridoos led the big parade" is echoing in my head)...but someone sure needs to figure out how to appease the kids who raised that money!

It is an unfortunate truism that the wonderful people of ANY country, including Australia, the U.S., Japan..etc., are at the mercy of whatever clutch of political types happen to be running things at the moment...and after the hassles we had in Atlanta, I do not envy Oz next year...it will be grand, but also tedious.

Sure hope someone finds a reasonably gentle way to resolve it all....

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 01:30 PM

Gee, you drive for miles and all you see is corn, and you're bored to death and starved to death, and you see a big sign that says "Chip Wagon Ahead." You screech to a halt in the middle of nowhere and you see this seedy-looking guy with a greasy-looking panel truck, selling french fries with gravy. That's all.
That's Canada fer ya. Fielding can keep it. I want ketchup on my fries. God bless America.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 01:26 PM

Right then, enough of this jingoistic bullpuckey, and it was a great road to travel in those lovely old days............Now, Rick, when are we going to talk about Canada becoming part of the States?????? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.......LMAO, AND JUST KIDDING

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:43 PM

Alrighty then.......Let's get started on the Canadjuns, now that's a whole other story.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:24 PM

I've ALWAYS agreed with YOU Joe!

p.s. Funny thing, I know what you mean about that 'ol radical spirit poppin' back every so often. Peace Bro. It was a good road to travel on.
rick

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:05 PM

Well, Rick, Gil DID give us a nice opportunity for us all to agree with each other....

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:04 PM

Toodlng his trumpet? I think he was a fly-by flamer Rick. Be nice to see his response to Helen sending him this thread though!

catspaw

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 11:58 AM

Where the Hell is Gil?

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Chet W.
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 10:40 AM

I wonder if Gil is indignant, with his vast knowledge of history, that the last Olympics were held in Radio Free Georgia, USA, which also began as a penal colony. I suppose maybe the next one could be planned for Devil's Island. Or would the folks who can pay $600 for a ticket be willing to bunk up in Papillon's cell block?

Chet W. in South Carolina, who didn't go to a single Lympic event in Atlanta

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Ted from Australia
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 10:34 AM

What a disaster! On behalf of all fair minded Australians and that includes everyone who has no connection with the olympic games organising committe i extend my apoligies to all the dissapointed marching bands.

Had this matter been aired before the invitation was issued it( the invitation) would never have been issued.
What committee in it's right mind would invite some non indeginous person or group to participate in the entertainment part of an Olympic Games.
The Opening extravaganza (altho IMHO totally irrelavant)is the time for the host country to display it's own culture and entertainment talent.
What were they thinking of?
I have been watching Olympic Openings since they were on film and cannot recall one instane of , say, the Japanese Dancing Puppets being featured at,say, Atlanta
Bruce has told you all of the compromise proposal. The late news here tells us that someone in California has rejected this and says "If we canot participate in the opening we will not participate at all" I can understand their dissapointment but surely some open discussion can produce something workable?
I also am not sure that I will think that Ihave expressed myself rationally when I read this tomorrow but Gil upset me so much with his vitriolic attack that I nearly posted "Get Like a Xmas Turkey" to him.
However after reading all the above posts my ruffeled feathers have settled and i feel bathed in the warm glow of Cyber fellow feeling from all or American 'Catters and realise that Gill belongs in some other boat entirely ( the one that is up the proverbial creek)
Geeze that set me off , my longest post ever.

Regards Ted

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 09:59 AM

Bruce, that bald New York kiddie is from California. --seed

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Bruce from Bathurst
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 08:55 AM

Oh joy, oh rapture!

As Alan of Australia has reported, bands may yet be marching towards Bathurst in 2000. It now appears the fallback position for the relevant New South Wales politicians is to offer the American and Japanese (yes, Gil, Japanese!) marching bands some time on stage at various non-opening ceremony events.

The heat has not died down in the New South Wales media - I can't speak for other parts of the country - and we have yet to face tomorrow's Sunday newspapers, which usually manage to build up our collective anger on most issues, but it would be nice if just one news item actually included a detailed report on the *music* on offer. Maybe Alan, Alison, etc, have looked more closely at our local TV news, but it seems to me the music is way behind as a news item.

By the way, the original deal for Bathurst was for more than 2000 band members to stay here for two weeks before the Games, supposedly injecting $3,000,000 into the Bathurst economy.

But right now I'm now going to watch Pat Rafter and that bald New York kiddie play their Wimbledon semi-final. Aussies versus Yanks in a sporting context? Who cares?

Bruce from Bathurst (the $3m town)

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From:
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 08:41 AM

I have to second what Helen and Alison said. We in Australia are as much victims of the Bumbling Olympic Board as anyone. It is not the Australian Government that made this decision. The Board seems to be a power of its own. They are planing to modify our public transport system, modify working hours, and change the time we switch to daylight savings time just for the games!

As I recall, the invitation to the US marching bands came last September. This is a helluva time to change their minds. There was a reason at the time for choosing the US bands over the native ones. They had some skill that we lacked. I can't remember what it was.

I'll go one further, Gil. I don't think ANYONE with taste should visit Olympic games ANYWHERE.

Murray

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 07:06 AM

See also here Xenophobia

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 07:03 AM

"I hate the Swiss".

That was a joke, I don't hate anybody.

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 04:13 AM

G'day,
This saga has been going on for a while, with the initial decision to exclude Aussie bands in favour of overseas bands. The very latest, as of this afternoon our time, is that the OS bands are coming after all, but not for the opening ceremony.

It's encouraging to see all the responses from our friends at Mudcat to Gil's post, but Gil, old mate, your post reinforces what a lot of Aussies think, i.e. that Americans are not well informed about events, current or historical, outside their own country. Go back & read your history books. Look at the system of social injustices in England, political in Ireland that led to convicts being sent here in the first place. Sure there were murderers & thieves sent here (prior to the American war of independance they were sent to America), but there were also very many good & decent people sent here by a travesty of justice. Aussies, like anybody else, can be obnoxious on occasion, but have you not heard the expression "ugly American"?

I'm sorry and surprised that you think we've forgotten your part in WWII. We haven't. It was worth the wait and has always been acknowledged. On the other hand, how much do you know of the exploits of the ANZACS at Gallipoli or the suffering on the Burma Railway? What about the American strategic presence in our country since the war: does that show a lack of gratitude?

I'm not sure I'll be proud of this post when I read it tomorrow, but Gil, your post was not at all helpful. I've made a lot of friends in the world wide Mudcat community which is characterised by friendliness and taking each other on our merits. And an agreement to spell differently. Let's keep it that way.

Your point could have been made in an entirely different way without being insulting to an entire nation. You may even have found many average Aussies agreeing with you.

Seed, don't worry, there are plenty of Aussies who boycott Paul Hogan movies. We're not all like him. Your hearing of "Whiskey" must be from some other part of Oz :o)

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 04:03 AM

Oh, you're a nasty one, Helen - but we love you, too!
Gil's message was a textbook example of American jingoism. As you may have noticed, not one person agreed with him. If anything, I think the Americans here may be guilty of reverse jingoism - we tend to speak of everything foreign as wonderful, but we aren't so favorable in our opinion of our own country. If fact, I've noticed that several U.S. Mudcatters use British spellings (colour, favour, etc.) with those nasty extraneous u's.
Anyhow, we like Australians just fine, and many of us even like Hulk Hogan, or whatever his name is....
-Joe Offer-

Subject: http://anon.free.anonymizer.com/RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Jeff
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 03:56 AM

G'day, mates. Aussie Jeff here. I'm your semioffical spokesbloke for the penal colony of Australia.

Look's like my mate Gil stirred up a bit of a fracus over here

It's my job to explain why 500 Orange County high school marching band members were "disinvited" from the 2000 Olympic Games by a country whose cultural calendar include an annual dynamite-throwing contest.

First, though, let me crack open my fifth Foster's Lager of the morning and finish my breakfast dingo.

Beaut! That's good dingo. It always tastes better when you beat it to death with your own hands.

Awwl right, then. Now, for the band controversy:

As was reported, roughly 500 high school band members in O.C. (and 1,300 nationwide) are bloody unhappy after being invited to the Sydney Olympics, then being disinvited because they're Americans.

Nine months of band practice and fund-raising is down the counterclockwise-rotating drain. Whatta bloody disappointment!

I even received an e-mail from a frustrated 14-year-old trumpet player, Robert Wood of El Dorado High School in Placentia, who inquired: "Since you lived through the '70s, I would like to know if you have any advice for me on how to annoy the Olympic Committee."

Well, mate, as someone who knows a thing or two about the '70s and nonsequiturs I can confirm that if the situation were reversed, here in Australia we'd marinate the whole lot in Vegemite and toss 'em on the barbie.

But since the situation isn't reversed, I ask for your patience and understanding.

I also ask you not to fixate on the fact that I have a large beer funnel in my pants.

Speaking on behalf of the Australian nation, I would only add the following:

Only a bushwhacking drongo wouldn't give away his billabong for a hoon spat. Dinky di.

(Translation: Only a fool lacking in social graces would concede his dry riverbed to a delinquent sausage. Really.)

The point, I think, is that Australia isn't evil or necessarily anti-American. It just wants to show the world that Australia, despite being legally drunk and generally on fire, is quite capable of fielding its own marching band — unless NATO intervenes.

I mean, how bad could an Australian marching band be?

Imagine a thousand high-stepping Australians in short pants, not counting kangaroos and emus, blowing on termite-hollowed tree branches known as didjeridoos, to the stirring strains of "Waltzing Matilda" and "Down Under" by Men at Work.

OK, bad.

On that note, let's pause for an Australian Fun Fact: Me own mum just bit off me left ear in a rugby scrum. And the thing is, it don't even hurt. Dinky di!

In further fairness to the jilted American musicians, I do understand why they're so disappointed about not being able to come to Australia. After all, there's so much to see and do. There's the Opera House in Syndey. And the Sydney Opera House. Did I mention the Opera House? It's in Sydney.

Plus there's the chance Rupert Murdoch could walk up to you at any time and buy your soul.

Another must-see is Ayers Rock, which is listen closely, mates, because this gets tricky a rock.

Of course, if you ever make it down this way and I sincerely hope you do I hope you'll take advantage of the truly best Australia has to offer:

New Zealand.

G'day.

Jeff Kramer at [e-mail].

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Helen
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 03:45 AM

You guys (non-sexist, all embracing term)

(In the words of a famous Oz Aboriginal boxer) I love youse all.

I just saw on the tv news here that the bands are still invited to perform in Sydney but not at the opening ceremony. It's not the best solution but it is a compromise (whatever we may think of compromises).

I like everything that you have said here in response to Gil's posting - viewpoints from all sides of the problem.

With love, respect, admiration, etc etc Helen

PS I might be doing the wrong thing here, but.... I've just copied and pasted this whole thread into an e-mail to send to Gil direct, just in case he doesn't drop back in to read the consequences of his posting.

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 02:11 AM

Gee, I've been boycotting Paul Hogan films for years. Does that make me anti-Australian?

--seed

p.s., I've also always had difficulty with the Oz habit of singin' Whiskey in the Jar with one part A of the verse melody followed by three part B's (I hope I'll be forgiven by the apostrophe police for the B's instead of Bs, which looks too much like BS--how many references to other threads did I manage to squeeze into that sentence?).

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Bruce from Bathurst
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 02:05 AM

I'm sorry I missed the opening of this thread. I've been in the 'Olympic City' waiting for Dick Gaughan's concert last night (brilliant!)

Our friend Gil and his media release have both received quite a lot of exposure in Sydney media these last few days and the whole issue has generated a quite inappropriate amount of heat. Mudcatters are better than that, judging by the comments in this thread.

Here in Bathurst we were expecting to host several hundreds of these band members during the Games. Bathurst is about three hours west of Sydney and what with the University campus and boarding schools vacant for holidays, etc, we could easily accommodate them all out here. Now, our Mayor is saying he'd like Bathurst to be compensated handsomely for the decision to 'uninvite' the visitors. He's my elected local government representative, but I don't remember being asked anything about this matter. Oh well.

So many people see the Olympics as an opportunity to make a financial killing in one way or another that the relevance of the Games has almost been lost, IMHO.

I will be taking my 14 year old son to some events in Sydney, at outrageous cost, because whatever else it means, we'll get to see some outstanding athletes competing in a unique event. My wife won't even consider it. Many of my friends are planning to either grab cheap flights out of the country at that time or to rely on TV, and that worries me a little. But I will definitely not be paying the exorbitant amounts being charged for the opening ceremony, with or without marching bands.

I'm sorry I won't be meeting hundreds of Orange County and Japanese band members in Bathurst. I like my fellow musicians, and even some bodhran players (grin) and I don't like to see kids disappointed so, all round, I'd prefer this hadn't happened. But since politicians are convinced the media controls public opinion, it has happened.

There will probably be more glitches before the opening ceremony for the media to jump on, but Sydneysiders (and Bathurstians) are cynical enough about how decisions are reached without Gil's help.

If any Mudcatters want to have a session in Bathurst while the opening ceremony is on, the Bathurst Folk Club will be open to suggestions.

. . . and mine's a Guinness.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 01:53 AM

I hope the Australian Govt rescinds their rather harsh and unfeeling treatment of the American marching band. Until they do so I pledge to boycott any Paul Hogan movies, snub anyone who offers me a vegemite sandwich,cancel my membership in the Men at Work Fan Club, and refuse to watch Rocco's Modern Life on Saturday morning with my daughter.

HOWEVER, Gil, I might suggest you attempt to approach your issue with a little more intelligence than you displayed. Your bone-headed remarks did very little to gain sympathy for your cause in this forum which, by the way, is not an American site but a Global one.We are friends here, and if you go kicking dirt at some of us the rest of us tend to think you are an asshole, capiche?

LEJ

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 01:10 AM

I must say that I am intriqued by this line of postings. My daughter was in a filed band for years and I supported her every step of the way. Collected bottles for return money, managed paper drives, sold pizza. Why? I love my daughter, I hate field band music. But we had all we could do to raise money to go to DC or Disney world. I think very few American Bands could have raised the gelt to get to Oz for the Ozlympics. Besides , its Australia's chance to show the world their finest, let them have their days in the light. Let their kids show our what they can do.

By the way Fielding I'm still roundly pissed about you Icebacks coming across bridge and steeling my work. Especially after I went to see the band thats doing the thievery! Yelling with drums is the only way to describe it. Unless its yelling with bagpipes. ( Imagine, bagpipes indoors! What kind of hearing can remain after that?)

Felicitous regards

Don

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Matthew B.
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:56 AM

Reminds me of the time I got a little peeved at the actions of a very small number of Australians, but it certainly didn't make me dislike Aussies in general; they're far too much fun to be with, and way more down to earth than their Limey... um, British cousins. Oops.

The event I'm referring to was the opening ceremony (what is it with them and opening ceremonies anyway? Maybe it's a weakness.) of a soccer match between the local team and the visiting team from Israel. When they played the Israeli national anthem ("Hatikvah") on the loudspeaker, they cut it off halfway through and played "Deutscheland Uber Alles" in its place. That was a rather hurtful thing to do, and I felt insulted as a Jew, but it didn't shade my feelings for the Aussies. Neither ignorance, cruelty, bigotry or racism has a national boundary. You can find them anywhere. The Israeli team continued to stand at attention, and never lost their dignity.

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: BK
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:43 AM

What a mess.. Joe & others are sure right; the class struggle is still with us in a big way; I'm not sure all of the playboys are so dumb, sad to say. Just look at the marketplace & much of so-called "mannaged care" in the health area. Screwing both the doctors & the patients. "Mannaged" to "make plan," like selling washing machines, for the prospectus & impressing the potential stock investors. The hell w/the service which is supposed to be the reason for it's existence.

Got me grumpy..

Not-So-Cheery, BK

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:42 AM

I'll tip a Foster's to ya, 'Spaw, next time I get to Quinn's (Thursday night).

--seed

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Big Mick
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:25 AM

Well done, 'Spaw.

Mick

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:19 AM

I can but second the eloquent comments of my friends. Being a long time racing sailor, I've had nothing but respect for the Aussies for over 30 years. (Do any of you remember the 12M, Dame Pattie---gawd it took guts to show up and sail that thing, but they did it with panache.) And to anyone wanting a text and example about the power of belief, motivation, and teamwork, you'll find nothing better than John Bertrand's (Skipper of Aussie II), titled "Born to Win." BTW-I have 2 beautiful pix of A II hanging in the den.

I dunno'.........maybe Gil/Gordon has the interests of the kids at heart. Maybe he does see the problem lies with the petty bureaucrats. But I must say that anyone who puts me in the position of trying to explain the "Ugly American" just flat pisses this ol' hick right off. So come back Gil/Gordon and explain...or shall I just put you down as yet another unmitigated asshole?

To Helen (who has my number), Alison, Alan, Bob, and all our Australian friends------My apologies for the attitude and as you know, I'm sure, it isn't the feeling of anyone in THIS village.

catspaw

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 03 Jul 99 - 12:12 AM

Just to lighten things up a bit, how about a chorus of

Hit's the syme the whole world over,
Hit's the poor what gits the blyme,
While the rich 'as hall the plysure,
Oh, hain't it a bloomin' shyme.

There's always been a class struggle, but the poor anesthetized public doesn't realize it. The Fed has again raised interest rates out of fear that the unemployment rate has dropped too low; profitable factories in the US, Japan, Europe, and I'm sure, Australia, are being shut down so the corporations can increase the profits through the use of next-to-slave labor--even a "Made in the USA" label in an item of clothing might mean simply that the item which was manufactured in China or Indonesia was shipped to Guam where a Chinese or Thai laborer living under slave-like conditions sewed the label into the otherwise complete garment. The economic rift between the rich and the poor has increased to the point that one man has more wealth than any of 90 percent of the nations on earth.

Just riffing a bit on some of what has been mentioned or expressed above, about the poor being taxed for luxuries for the rich, about class struggle...

--seed

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 11:21 PM

I want to apologize for my flippant comment earlier. I've re-read Gordon's initial post several times now and it has very little to do with a stupid Olympic Commitee, and just smacks of general ugliness. I think we all know from the pay-offs and scandals of the last few months that the I.O.C. definitely sees itself as impervious to criticism, so I doubt any angry phone calls would do much good. Canada's Dick Pound, the heir apparant to Samaranch has behaved very badly in recent times as has the rest of Canada's olympic committee, who still have not forgiven a large number of Torontonians who made visiting Olympic dignitaries aware that, Yes Indeed, we DO have poverty in Toronto and quite a lot of residents would like to see THAT addressed before bidding for an olympic games. When we lost out to Atlanta not EVERYONE was disappointed.
But back to Gordon's posting. On first reading I thought he was being tongue-in-cheek (although vicious) about Australians, but after a second look, it just seems flat out racist, in the most black and white way. That's the first time I've seen real xenophobia on Mudcat, and I'll bet if Gordon calms down a bit and looks at what he wrote, he might be a bit embarrassed.
As a Canadian I've gotten tons of ribbing, some of it razor-sharp. No problem, cause it's all humour driven and I enjoy that kind of wit and word-play. Even Don M's thread about Canadians "stealing" American (Irish Band) jobs in the Syracuse area was hardly offensive to me as some of his information was over 20 years old, and having chatted with him on the phone and through Mudcat I consider him a friend. Nope, haven't seen anything but respect for each other's countries in the better part of a year that I've been on mudcat, so I strongly hope that Gordon re-appears (in this thread) and does some follow up.

I would also like to apologize to our "Ozzie" friends, but I think they know how we all feel.
rick

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 10:52 PM

Gil,

I will only say this to you. If I use the Aussies I have met here on the 'Cat as my gauge, you are about as far off the mark as you can be. Helen, Fair Young Maid, Bob Bolton, Alan of Australia, and of course the Fair Alison are some of our most valuable contributors. It is safe to say that the Mudcat Cafe would not be the wonderful town that it is without them. I am offended that with one broad swoop, you have mischaracterized some wonderful people. I hope you will cool down and make this right.

And by the way, many of those who you characterize as thieves, lawbreakers, pickpockets and the flotsam of civilized society were Irish people ripped from their homes for offending the Crown by their presence. So it seems to me you have offended the memory of brave people simply trying to survive under difficult circumstances. And they were an integral part of establishing a remarkable society down under.

I can understand the anger at what appears to be a very poorly handled situation. One can hardly condemn the Australians for wanting their Olympics to be a reflection of their society. One of the major problems today is the lack of understanding on the part of us Yanks that the rest of the world does not necessarily want to be completely like us. Believe it or not, and I know this is hard, the civilized world does not end on the California coast. Having said all that, whoever handled this situation, did so in a very poor manner.

How about it friend Gil, can you find it within yourself to clarify your statement apologize to our Australian citizens?

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 10:41 PM

Just did a quick forum search to see if Gil has been on here much. Using that name in the search box brought up several postings with the letters G-i-l in various names. Ironically, the earliest was someone in Australia. There was only one posting with just "Gil", so, I would suspect we've been flamed by someone looking for music sites to vent his obvious prejudices.

My favourite quote from the Wizard of Oz seems good advice for all of our dear Mudcateers in OZ: "Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!" i.e. curtain of intolerance, anger, and prejudice!

Most of us on here would NEVER judge a country by so few! Besides, our own preparations for the Olympics in Salt Lake City, which are spilling over into Wyoming, haven't been free of controversy, etc.

To Gil: it may sound trite, but remember, when one points a finger, three fingers point back at them!

Katlaughing & loving the Aussies!!!

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: alison
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 10:36 PM

I am not an Aussie by birth... but I do live here...

and if you have offended me, (which you have), just think how the real Aussies feel. As was pointed out by Helen? we first heard of this a few days ago... and WE didn't have anything to do with it.. it was the olympic organising committee. So go yell at them not the innocents you find here!!! And many of us are not convicts.. we came of our own free will.

I for one, don't want the olympics here.. it's costing us a fortune which could be better spent on something useful like hospitals, and education. I intend to be back home in Ireland to avoid the mess it's going to create here.

But here is the thinking behind it as far as we have been told..... why should they spend more money bringing in overseas bands etc.. when there are plenty of musicians and bands already here. why not use the aussie performers?

did the Americans bring in international performers for Atlanta? I don't know.

Yes I feel sorry for all the kids who have been let down, but the aussie kids were let down too.. the message they are getting is that they're obviously not good enough for the job.. so we'll bring in some overseas talent....... how's that for building self esteem?

from what I have heard the overseas kids were going to have to pay $3500 for the priviledge of playing here. which leads me to the question.. were they really being asked for their talent. or just to bring more money in to this event. I know which one I believe.

I don't often get riled here at mudcat but you got my Irish blood up.

Please don't tar us all with the one brush... and please see this for what it was.. a committee decision. And if you meet an Aussie in America... please make them welcome, the majority of us would make you welcome in our country too.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Mike Billo
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 10:15 PM

I'm an American father of three. As an adult, I have learned to accept disappointment and unfairness as a part of life, however, when someone inflicts injustice on my children, I lose all reason, and swear vendettas. I suspect that is the case here. I'm hope that when Gil cools down a bit, he will feel sorry for some of the things he's said about our fellow Mudcatters from Australia. In case he doesn't, I aplogize for the angry words of my countryman. Last year, as a part of an exchange program, my family hosted a young woman from Australia who was the most charming house guest anyone could ever hope to meet. No nation of people should ever be held to blame for the actions of their petty civil servants.

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 09:57 PM

Joe,

My concerns about the Olympic Games being held over here, in my state, are that huge budget cuts have been made for hospitals and public education and social services, to come up with the money for these games, for the new buildings, the changes to the transport systems, etc etc with the carrot being held up that huge amounts of tourism dollars will flow back into the economy.

I welcome an international event like the Games because it promotes fellow feeling, a sense of community throughout the world, but I don't see any justification for penalising the poor, the sick and the needy so that some big bits of architecture and lots of promotional hype can be paid for, and so a few Olympic committee members and a few politicians can get their names in lights.

I tend to agree with you about the playboy elite.

Helen

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Helen
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 09:50 PM

Hi FairYoungMaid,

I didn't realise you were in Sydney. I'm in Newcastle, just north of you.

I think the whole thing has been a disaster. Whether the original decision to hire bands from overseas for the Olympic opening event is right or wrong, or somewhere in between, or nothing to do with "right" or "wrong" is only part of the problem. The other part is that a decision was made based on a number of assumptions, without informing the Australian people, and which has now blown up into a huge international fiasco. I don't think it can be easily fixed - it just seems to get worse and worse, and the marching band people from overseas - not just America - are justifiably upset, but so are the Australian people, the community as a whole, by the whole situation.

Having Gil vent his spleen in such a nasty way on a forum which is unrelated to the Olympic Games, and where a diverse range of thoughts, feelings, beliefs and values tend to be expressed (which is the pride of the Mudcat site) has just ruined my day, I'm sad to say. But, I know that there are plenty of other 'Catters who will see the situation from more than one side and who will jump in to smooth some ruffled feathers, mine included.

I am doing my best to maintain a neutral tone, and I have no intention whatsoever of getting into a nasty slanging match with Gil, whose opinions I welcome, but whose nastiness was completely uncalled for.

Helen

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Alice
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 09:49 PM

Gil, I hope when your emotions calm down about this you realize that you just made a generalized condemnation about an entire group of people, based on what a 'committee' did. You owe Australians an apology for your statement.

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 09:42 PM

I don't think this has anything to do with normal Australians and normal Americans. The Olympics has become a plaything of the wealthy elite, and these people don't know and don't care about the concerns of ordinary people.
Same things goes in business nowadays. Those in charge seem to think they have a divine right to use the world for their own profit, with no concern whatsoever for the rest of humanity. Maybe I'm becoming a radical again in my old age - I see a new class struggle coming, a struggle between an educated middle class and a not-so-bright elite playboy class.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Aussies ban American Bands
From: Rita64
Date: 02 Jul 99 - 08:35 PM

Helen, I completely understand how you feel and I am distressed that Gil might represent a number of people. I must firstly correct Gil. His statements about Australia's heritage are a vast exaggeration - especially due to the fact that a considerable portion of the population are first, second or third generation Aussies from Asian and European countries - and have nothing to do with the colonial days.

It is true that this whole marching band disaster has just been made public and, being an occupant of Sydney myself, I was just as distressed as this Gil fellow when I heard that these poor people from all over the world were told they couldn't participate anymore. The Australian Olympic Committee has made a huge mistake, I agree.

But if you could see the frenzy of construction in Sydney at the moment and feel the anticipation and excitement generated by the 2000 Olympics you would realise that Sydneysiders have the best intentions for the Games.

~FYM~