BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 01:55 PM

Bill
I could not agree with you more.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:07 PM

"The constitution is a noble and massively important document, but it should be open to question and if a consensus is reached..."

Have you never heard of Amendments? Nothing new there.

"Virginia Tech"? I fail to see how people/students whipping out their guns and firing at each other (Hey! He's got a gun!) would have made the situation any better. As the man said, When you have a gun your mindset changes. When your only tool is a hammer everything looks like a nail. So something drastically dangerous happens and you know that you have a gun that will stop everything in its tracks but you see a gun in someone's hands or multiple guns in multiple hands what on earth makes you so sure that you will fire at the right person?

Keep in mind that in a hostage situation even the police don't know how many gunmen/terrorists are involved. What makes you think you would know? After it's all over, do you want to end up blubbering in the corner, wailing "I thought he was/they were the bad guys?"

I think you are a fool. (And if you don't know just who I am speaking to, that's OK too.)

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:17 PM

Sorry but a poem I wrote might fit here...




WTC


watching terror come,
with total confusion
walls trembled calamitously
wasted cubicles crumbled
with terrible consequences.
we totally crumbled
wailing tortured cries.
where tiny corpses
withered to chalk.

we talked constantly
who took control?
wild terrorist cowboys
washed their cash
whipped the country
who took cash.
why this crisis?
who's to change?
weary terrorist commandos?
weak timid cowards?
western tradition continued

when tensions cooled
Widows taught children.
Wives told Congress.
Wisdom taught cautiously
Weary troops cried
War time cruelty
Worried taunted crowds
we took consolation
we tivo'd comedies.

while things change
world trade creeps.
Wallstreet trade collapsed
wishful thinking careened
without thoughtful care
when traders cheated
we thoroughly crashed.
world trade centered
with triumphant China
when time came
we took charge


white terrorists conspired
while toting colts
watching townhall citizens
wishing they could
wipe them clear
wanting to change
what thousands created
wonderful thoughtful change
with tremendous care

when they come

we'll trap criminals



don hakman 2009 (9 lines 11 lines 9 lines 11 lines 9 lines 1 line 1 line)

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:23 PM

Ebbie
most licensed gun owners I know would never ever carry a firearm to a classroom even if it were legal. I have to agree with you. Most who can carry a legal firearm almost never do except when they know they have to go into a bad area. For example some of my neighbours have to go to that hospital for cancer treatment, it is the biggest around with the most facilities ... I completely understand why they sometimes decide to go concealed armed ... I won't go near the place without it. Nothing to do with walking different .. I guess maybe some people think that way but none that I know .. perhaps that is why it is difficult to get one, You need references in this state and not from your friends. You need references from and approval from the local police chief, and sheriff and judge and FBI ... and your medical records better show you are of fit mind .. or you won't get one. But that is for the law abiding, the criminals have no such process

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:35 PM

I am sorry about my rambling. It is interesting to me cause I been there. There is this perception that armed citizens (legally that is) walk different or act different or take more risks. I think that is as far from the truth as you can get. What reasonable person you know whants to use a firearm on another? if you know someone they certainly are not reasonable. You cannot call it back once it is done and you will live with it forever. . All I was doing was walking to my car to go home to my wife and kids after a job that I had to do that made me stay late. The nurses didn't even know I was carrying nor did anyone else ... They were shocked, and thankful but was very surprised afterwords. My hope was the guy got scared and maybe changed his ways who knows, I prayed for him that he would change someday and not hurt anyone. You see it is not handed out like candy ... they don't give them away. If my neighbour is armed legally he is pretty much as close to a police officer as you can get without the badge in this state anyway. I cannot speak for other states. I absolutely disagree that a legally carrying citizen act different. I don't believe if for a moment. If anything they are more cautious.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:37 PM

You don't know you will fire at the right person, but then if one person has a gun and is shooting people chances are she is the right person. Take your chances and let God sort it out. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:41 PM

My God

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:45 PM

old dude,
You get to the point with fact, fun and fury, you don't ramble at all.

I search the list for your posts specifically as I do for a few others.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:56 PM

Old Dude, some states don't require a permit for open carry. And how far do you trust a 20-year-old's judgment when it comes to guns, even on campus? Since Virginia Tech and other atrocities how many more youngsters do you think have guns at school? I'm sure there are even some parents who urge their child to take one along "just in case". The fact that it has not become evident is irrelevant- the first time there is a gun battle on a campus will be more than enough for me. I'll stick with my own judgment on this.

I'm not afraid of nor even suspicious of the well-trained person packing. Although I must say that if I were part of a group traveling on foot through a bad part of an unfamiliar town and one of us had a gun I swear I would not feel any safer. I grew up with guns and we never considered them toys, nor did we think of them as 'equalizers'.

My own feeling is that since the advent of cell phones there is a measure of safety that wasn't present before. How many muggers would dare grab someone when they're on an open line?

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: beardedbruce
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 02:58 PM

"And how far do you trust a 20-year-old's judgment "

Federal law requires one to be 21 to purchase a gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:13 PM

Ebbie
for me only the well trained and the very responsible should. I know it is different in other states so I cannot speak for them. I don't know any police officer friends of mine or friends with permits who would advocate arming kids in a college classroom. A better approach is security personnel more camera's and more security is a better solution for such a place as a campus. As an ex college professor I would never advocate arming students of any kind. If a student does have a carry permit, he would not be armed anyway because he is one who obeys the law or would not have it. It is a federal crime to have a weapon on campus even if you hold the state license it is no good on campus.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:13 PM

The bullet

The bullet tears tissue
severes vessels
rips mother from child
tears husband from wife
severes hope from hearts
rips time from life
bodies fall
tears fall
at school
at home.
at work
some call it a sport.
others call it getting even
if you are a bullet loving jerk
its just your hobby
its just your fun
its just the countless children
laying dead by your gun.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:21 PM

"Federal law requires one to be 21 to purchase a gun."


Oh. That eases my mind. Indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:21 PM

Whether they can purchase it or not, anyone 19 or over can carry a firearm in New Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:24 PM

Donuel
a poem every gun owner and buyer should read ... perfect ... you see once it is fired it cannot be recalled. I thank God I did not have to use it ever. It was a sick enough feeling to have to pull it. But me and the nurses went home to our kids after and so did the bad guy. I sure hope and pray he did not hurt anyone else and learned something. Can someone please tell me why a big cancer hospital also has a methadone treatment centre for addicts at the same location in a seedy part of town ... how does that make sense ? is that normal?

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:37 PM

I guess I don't understand the laws in all the states. I really believe a federal carry law would be a good thing. I don't believe at all that more guns in the hands of more people make you safe. It is just the opposite I think.   But more guns in the hands of the right people does make you safe. We never argue that we need more police officers in the city but they cannot be everywhere and the cost to the public etc ..I read the average time to respond to a crime in most cities is 10 minutes. 10 minutes, I didn't have 10 seconds before she would have a knife at her throat.

in NY it is hard hard hard to have the state say yes this guy this girl is completely qualified ... I never worry about the licensed gun owner carrying it is the gangs and criminals that I worry about.   

Probably culture in a region has a lot to do with it ... maybe the case in NM is due to little need because of the low crime or violence by firearms. That is why the leave it up to the states I guess

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:38 PM

Hospitals hvae psych wards which can be just as dangerous as addiction centers or viral epidemics.
Old dude, in that situation you were that guy. The guy who had to do the right thing. A guy to be honored.

I suppose policemen hope to be that guy but sadly too many become the victim.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 03:50 PM

My own feeling is that since the advent of cell phones there is a measure of safety that wasn't present before. How many muggers would dare grab someone when they're on an open line?
------


Ask Christy? Cornwell of Georgia ...quite likely a distant relative of mine..who has disappeared while talking on a cell phone. Still missing I believe.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 04:08 PM

you see for me perhaps my thinking is different. If I am stuck in the middle of a terrible situation. I don't want someone else risking their life. Safety is our own responsibility. We ask a lot of our police officers but they are just citizens themselves that we trust. So I also trust other citizens that have proven their responsibility. They just cannot be there in time for you. The best approach is always stay away but sometimes trouble finds you and you do not go looking for it. I thank God I was armed I really do .. it would have been terrible and my family would be watching the results on the news. The police just cannot be there in time.   Good people are victims of crime. Usually the most vulnerable, the sick or the elderly. I am sure the guy thought I was a doctor coming out with some nurses. Maybe he would have robbed us and left, maybe much worse. Never know and that is the good thing, I didn't have to find out. Good people can watch their own backs and that of their neighbours while assisting the police. I hate guns but until we all live like we should we need to understand them and the results afterwords. Anyway I am done with my ramblings

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 04:47 PM

beardedbruce:

New Mexico...

"JUVENILE SALE
Is it illegal to sell handguns to anyone under 21 years of age? No

State law does not restrict selling handguns to juveniles under the age of 21 by unlicensed sellers. Under federal law, only federally licensed dealers are prohibited from selling or delivering handguns or ammunition for handguns to any person under the age of 21. A strong state law is needed to stop unlicensed persons from selling handguns to those under the age of 21."

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 05:24 PM

I will use any weapon that comes to hand -- sticks, pipes, chains, shoe strongs, knives, hatchets, pencils, oven cleaner, hands and feet, battery acid, a rolled up newspaper, a cane, hot liquids, the edge of a credit card, a broken CD, a broken bottle, a sock full of rocks, whatever comes to hand -- to defend myself or others who threatened by deadly force.

Please note that the above list does not include firearms. If one were available to me I would use it, but it's far more likely that I'll have something else at hand.

ANYTHING can be turned into a weapon if the will to turn into one is there -- from a toothpick to a 737.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 05:50 PM

I knew someone would bring up the missing woman case. I might point out that we don't yet know the end of that story.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Peace
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 05:57 PM

(Not for Ebbie to read.)

You folks are TOO serious.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:04 PM

Rapaire, a sharp credit card is hand to hand but
a rubber band and a razor blade are lethal within 20 feet.

this is my rifle this is my gun this is for fighting this is for fun

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:31 PM

Dorothy Parshall,

Your mentioning the mountain lion on the mountain trail reminded me of the time..

...fresh water porpoises that never died were discovered in Crater Lake some years back. They leaped out of the water and ate seagulls flying through the air. I wanted to catch one of the porpoises to study it. So I hauled a crate of seagulls over a mountain trail to lure one of 'em to captivity. After 2 days trekking in there, I came upon a mountain lion sleeping in the middle of the path. I tiptoed past the sleeping thing and as soon as I got past him the sheriff jumped out to arrest me for transporting gulls across a sedate lion for immortal porpoises!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:48 PM

Art
that was awful and I can't stop laughing .....

terrible .... LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:54 PM

Hahahahahaa... Art... priceless.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 06:55 PM

Peace... pussy for pussy?

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Aug 09 - 09:37 PM

Art, were those underage gulls?

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 06:23 AM

In Britain only certain members of the security forces and a small number of specially-trained police officers are allowed to carry hand guns or automatic weapons. Shotguns and rifles are strictly controlled and licensed. Anyone else is treated as a potential murderer and, if found out, will be arrested and imprisoned or even shot.

No law-abiding citizen needs to own or carry a hand gun. If you don't feel safe in public without a gun or if you don't trust your police force to protect you, you should be insisting that your politicians do something about it. Whatever the circumstances, carrying a gun implies that you expect to kill someone and having millions of potential killers wandering around does not make for a civilised society.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 08:55 AM

In Britain only certain members of the security forces and a small number of specially-trained police officers are allowed to carry hand guns or automatic weapons. Shotguns and rifles are strictly controlled and licensed. Anyone else is treated as a potential murderer and, if found out, will be arrested and imprisoned or even shot.

And the violent crime rate in Britain is accelerating, from what I hear. You have to get over the illusion that if something is made illegal, it'll just stop happening. Making stricter criminal laws creates more criminals, not fewer.

No law-abiding citizen needs to own or carry a hand gun.

Given an environment that is entirely free of violent crime, you're right. But what does "need" have to do with it? No law-abiding citizen NEEDS to own or carry a guitar or fiddle. And definitely not a banjo or bodhran.

If you don't feel safe in public without a gun...

As I said in an earlier post, I feel quite safe without a gun here in Vermont, where it's perfectly legal to carry one. I don't feel safe without one in the cities, but I'm not allowed to carry one there. I can't help but think that there's a connection.

...or if you don't trust your police force to protect you...

But who's going to protect me from my police force?

...you should be insisting that your politicians do something about it...

OH, COME ON! Where am I going to get the cash that a politician wants before he'll listen seriously to anyone?

Whatever the circumstances, carrying a gun implies that you expect to kill someone...

I have fired hundreds and hundreds of rounds through handguns, and I have never in my life killed any living thing with one, larger than whatever worms or bugs were living in the sand bank I was using for a backstop. And I never will unless someone or something is trying to kill me or mine; or I or mine need food really badly.

...and having millions of potential killers wandering around does not make for a civilised society.

You're right. It doesn't. That's why we need fewer of the potential killers carrying guns, and more guns carried by rational people who don't wish to use them for anything but practice, but who will use them if needs must.

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 09:43 AM

by the way for those good people who do decided to get a license. The colt .45 is one miserable firearm to carry. It is big heavy and just a miserable gun to conceal. Look at a glock 23 40 caliber or even a sig .380   perfect. I guess that is why the FBI uses the model 23 glock. That is what I use for the twice a year I carry since I sold my custom .45 colt. In the mountains then it is a .44 mag for bears

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:09 AM

In the mountains it's a 12 gauge slug for bears, fired from a pump shotgun with a "slug barrel" and the magazine plug removed. Grease your .44 magnum so it won't hurt as much when the bear gives it that final shove.

Or better still -- a 12 gauge "bird bomb" fired in front so s/he will get the idea s/he isn't wanted there. But load the slugs just in case.

A flare from a flare gun will also (usually) turn a bear, but watch out for starting a wild fire.

"An armed society is a polite society."

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:14 AM

can't work a fly rod with the shotgun Mike but you are right the best of all with rifle slugs in it. By the way, I load my own .44 mags. Hot for bears, you don't want to target shoot with that load. Fire it and ya can't hear for days LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Riginslinger
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:15 AM

"Question: Why Pack Heat?"

            Some mad geneticist might figure out a way to clone Ronald Reagan!

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:42 AM

Mike if you want to leave the shotgun at home and you are in the mountains, your .44 mag will be fine try this

220 grain MCP bullet
a little over 25 grains of Accurate Arms NO. 9 power although I did do near 26 once (not really safe)

you will get over 1280 fps which will stop pretty much any bear or anything else but don't target shoot with it ... hard on the gun But you can work a fly rod

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:42 AM

Why carry a gun to town hall meeting? 'Cause you'd probably get arrested for carrying a guitar.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Stringsinger
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:50 AM

The purpose of "packing heat" is to intimidate and bully those who don't agree with you.
Pure and simple.

They believe their interpretation of the Second Amendment trumps the First Amendment.

Responsible gun owners do not display their weapons publicly.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 10:53 AM

NY Times: Scars Linger After Acts of Self-Defense

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 11:01 AM

DD your article is exactly right on track and another that every person should read who owns a firearm. There maybe some people that can use it and sleep at night.   I am glad I never had to find out cause it was enough to have to point it. But I would have done what I had to and then deal with the after results to save lives.. Just thankful for me I never had to find out.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 11:20 AM

Oh in regard to my last post. I would never draw a weapon unless I had the full intent on using it to save a life. When I took mine out it was with full knowledge that I would most like have to fire it and was fully prepared to do so, there was never any question on my resolve to protect them and myself. Had he been two steps closer I would have pulled the trigger and lived with the results. Unless someone understands that, they should never be a law enforcement officer or apply for a conceal license. It is one of those factors that has to be considered before having a firearm. I really do hate the things. I know one heck of a lot about them but I don't like them. I gave up hunting cause I stopped eating the game   I think your article DD is very important. You take on the responsibility for your safety and that of others when you put on one of those things. If you have not thought through all the results you should not own one. When I put my on it is with a prayer that I never have to pull it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 12:11 PM

Why has this thread deteriorated into ANOTHER debate over "how to kill bears, why own a gun at all, and what are the dangers of shooting... or trying to shoot... holdup men"??

I can debate some of those points, but the original question was about the idea of **open carrying**, since instances of that practice at public political events are in the news lately.

I am curious whether anyone even read or took notice of my post above identifying the militia & its organizers who provoked most of these incidents. It seems to me that it is IMPORTANT to realize the relevance of such attitudes and what, if anything, should be done about them.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: olddude
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 12:31 PM

excellent point bill. By the way I like bears never hunted one nor ever would just don't want eaten while fishin ... Crazy people with guns ... that keeps me up at night ... America does need to rethink this stuff logically and make some changes and better enforcement... I don't get it either.

by the way again off topic ... you doctors and nurses ... big targets for gangs in large city hospitals. Money, precription drug pads ... walk careful and in a group or wait for security to escort you out

I am done with my ramblings again sorry for the thread creep

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 02:26 PM

Regrettably (IMHO), there isn't much you can do about them. As long as they are obeying local and Federal weapons laws and the weapons they are carrying are legal, there isn't a single thing that says they can't exercise their First Amendment right to free speech while also exercising their Second Amendment right (as currently defined) to "keep and bear arms". Hopefully, local SWAT, FBI and Secret Service officers are keeping close eyes on them as they do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 02:48 PM

One (FBI?) entity said that in a crowd they keep an eye on everyone obviously packing, but that if they came inside the hall their weapon would be confiscated.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: gnu
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:00 PM

Bill D... spot on! As I said, I think open carry (again, we have NO carry, which I agrre with) is just not a logical idea.

But, (sorry, Biil) on the subject of bears or any other threat, the choice of weapon has far less than 50% to do with the fact that knowing HOW to use the weapon increases your safety... no need to get technical or graphic... simply put, a thorn in a lion's paw give pause.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:14 PM

I can't think of any reason to normally carry anything other than a small pocketknife. I have done so, rarely, and I will not willingly give up the right to do so.

But to make a point? Nah, just plain stupid. As I said, it brings you to the attention of the cops.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: gnu
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:26 PM

Rap... I have taken to carrying a fairly large pocket knife whilst walking my neighbourhood. We have been blessed with new neighbours in the past two years... strip club types and hookers in a few houses who like pit bulls. One of the pit bulls is never leashed. And the city bylaw officers don't have the time to monitor them.

I almost was able to pet one a while back. Came into my backyard. But, when I crouched down and tried to get it to come to me, it ran away.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:26 PM

Don't take the pocketknife on board a plane, Rap. In Alaska, even the ubiquitous ulu is taboo.

Subject: RE: BS: Question: Why Pack Heat?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Aug 09 - 03:27 PM

"As long as they are obeying local and Federal weapons laws...." etc...

Then, in my honest opinion, there is a problem with those laws. Surely it is possible to have some sort of uniform national standard about such things.
I see that places like Arizona, New Mexico and Texas do not have exactly the same laws, but they DO have "reciprocal agreements" so that someone from Texas can behave in Texas as he would in Arizona...(I'd have to read a LOT more to see exactly how these are arranged.)
   In New Mexico, someone UNDER 21 can legally buy weapons from an unlicenced dealer. In Virginia, is it about the same, perhaps with a different age requirement. There is little dispute that it is easy for almost anyone to obtain 'almost' any firearm they wish...some legally, some illegally.
   Now, if someone buys a gun, even illegally, in one state...then goes to ---say Arizona where 'legal carry' is in effect, and straps it on, how long might it be before they are stopped & questioned? I see reports that the Secret Service was 'watching' these guys at the rally for Obama, but I don't see that each one was individually checked & vetted by authorities.
   This seems to me to be a situation that could easily lead to one where, after a few rounds (no pun intended) of everyone becoming used to seeing pistols and AR-15s at events, a group such as The Viper Militia could ................... (fill in all sorts of things.)
   You see, the laxness of the laws does MUCH more for those with nefarious goals than it does for law abiding citizens who do NOT take guns to political events.

In other realms, (such as operationg motor vehicles)there are all sorts of practices which are forbidden, even though 'some' folks could be trusted to do them safely. Attitudes toward guns are just so suffused with emotional layers that it is VERY difficult to get a totally rational analysis of the issues involved.

...and every day, the number of murders, accidents and threats FAR exceeds the events with positive outcomes like oldude relates.....why are we willing to tolerate so many?