BS: Old Cemeteries

Subject: BS: Old Cemetaries
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 10:43 AM

Having been in Salford and it's environs for well over 50 years I decided to visit one of our more interesting local heritage sites today. Weaste cemetery was Salford first municipal cemeteries and, despite the rain, we spent a good hour walking round and finding all sorts of interesting things. As well as the graves and memorials of the famous, including Charles Halle, Joseph Brotherton and Mark Addy we found a very sad and poignant mass grave of orphan children, all dead within days of each other. Presumably some illness at the orphanage.

A little light relief was to be had with the grave of Euphemia and Launcelot C. Tulip, a mother and grown up son from Gateshead. I know we should not laugh at names but when we found what the 'C' stood for we could not help it. Try and guess without recourse to any genealogy sites. I will post it tomorrow if no-one has guessed right by then.

Back to the more famous, Joseph Brotherton was one of those rare, real philanthropists. A massive anti-slavery campaigner and supporter of the public library movement he ensured that Salford was the first municipal authority in Britain with a public museum, art gallery and library. A founder of the vegetarian movement and pacifist it speaks volumes that his huge memorial was built by public support. A great difference to the worst examples of the era characterised by the factory and mine owners who used slave labour and rode roughshod over the working classes.

Anyhow - Anyone else visit cemeteries? Why~ and what do you get from it? Who is in your local?

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemetaries
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:28 AM

Funny you should start this thread.

My 14 year old daughter is currently visiting Albert and Ypres with her school to visit the wargraves. It is a 5 day trip.

When she gets home, I will find out what she thought about it and post some of her experiences here.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemetaries
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:48 AM

Not a cemetery as such, but in St Oswald's church in Flamborough, on the coast of East Yorkshire, is a epitaph to Sir Marmaduke Constable, who died in 1530 and whose family are still prominent local landowners. He was known as Little Sir Marmaduke because of his small stature but was a distinguished soldier who fought in many campaigns and, at the amazing age of 70, commanded one of the English wings at the Battle of Flodden and personally dispatched many Scots nobles. Considering the average life expectancy at that time was less than 50, he was a very, very old man.

Most amazing of all, however, is the maanner of his death - he was supposed to have inadvertently swallowed a live toad which ate his heart.

Here is his epitaph:

"Here lieth Marmaduke Constable of Flaynborght, Knight,
         Who made aduento into France for the right of the same;
         Passed ouer with Kyng Edwarde the fourith, yt noble knight,
         And also with noble King Herre the seuinth of that name.
         He was also at Berwik at the winnyng of the same,

          And by King Edward chosy captey there first of any one,
         And rewllid & gouernid ther his tyme without blame,
          But for all that, as ye so, he lieth vnder this stone.

         At Brankisto feld, wher the King of Scottys was slayne,
          He then being of the age of thre score and tene,
         With the good duke of Northefolke yt iorney hay tayn,

          And coragely avancid hyself emog other there & then.

         The Kig beyng i france with gret nombre of ynglesh me,

          He nothing hedyng his age ther but jeopehy as ow,
         With his sonnes brothe sarientt and kynnismen,
          But now, as ye se, he lyeth under this stone.

         But now all thes tryumphs as passed and set on syde,
          For all worldly joyes they will not long endure,
         They are soune passed and away dothe glyde,

          And who that puttith his trust i the & call by most usure.
         For when deth striketh he spareth no creature,

          Nor geuith no warnyg but takith the by one & one;
         And now he abydyth gode's mercy & hath no other socure,
          For, as ye se hym, here he lieth vnder this stone.

         I pray yow my kynsome, louers and friendis all,
          To pray to oure lord Jhesu to haue marcy of my sowll.

I have turned this into a song using some of the wording.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemetaries
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 11:54 AM

We dont visit them deliberately, but when on holiday if we're walking or just siteseeing and there's a church, the older the better, I just have to go and have a look around the graves. I find them totally absorbing, reading the names, dates of births and deaths. My husband thinks I'm completely mad.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 12:04 PM

I simply cannot pass a cemetery or graveyard. Absolutely fascinating places.

One that remains in my affections, as I often visited it with my Grandfather as a lad, is Carleton cemetery in Blackpool.

Famous names:

Norman Evans, comedian (over the garden wall)
Frank Randle, comedian
Arthur Worsley, ventriloquist
Violet Carson, actress (Ena Sharples)
Reginald Dixon, organist
Jimmy Clitheroe, comedian
Stan Mortenson, footballer
Beatrix Potter, author

....and my Grandfather.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemetaries
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 12:33 PM

In the US, the one I really remember was up above Central City, Colorado.
It was mostly from the mid- to late 1800s, and has many children's stones with poignant messages.
Here are a number of images from a Google search

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemetaries
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 01:25 PM

Thank Heavens WEAST did NOT miss-spell their name (I was afraid it was another one of those British thinges)

So you will always remember - these confusing two....

It is EEriE in the cEmEtEry - both have three E's.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

A 10 year old taught me that one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemetaries
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 01:38 PM

Names and dates from stones in old cemeteries are useful in genealogical studies. Many are being recorded; I have found them useful in tracing out my own ancestral relations.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemetaries
From: sian, west wales
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 01:52 PM

I do likes cemetaries.

I chanced upon the Huguenot Cemetary in Dublin (Merrion Row) a couple of years ago. You can't go in, but it's mostly visible through the railings, as it is quite small.

Another interesting one is the "Coloured Cemetary" between Stevensville and Fort Erie in the Niagara Penninsula, Ontario. The majority of the graves are of Afro Americans who came across with the Underground Railroad but I think a few might be of those who were still slaves with the United Empire Loyalists who settled the area. There's a UEL cemetary in the same village. I have some pictures up on Flickr but Flickr seems to be currently unavailable.

From time to time the National Eisteddfod has a competition for grave stone inscriptions which can come up with some oddities in Wales. There's one gravestone in the Llanfyllin churchyard which is written in the Theban alphabet - curious!

Back in Canada, I've always enjoyed a visit to the burial plot at Pengelly's Landing, Rice Lake, Ontario (between Peterborough and Port Hope). Joseph Scriven , author of the words, "What a friend we have in Jesus", is buried there - and a finer view no corpse could ask for. It's a bit hard that his fiance is only noted as "Scriven's Sweetheart", considering that it is HER family plot. Scriven was, for a time, tutor to the Massey family a generation or two prior to the family producing Vincent Massey (Gov.Gen. of Canada at one point) and his brother Raymond (actor). Scriven "took tea" with my mother's family on Sundays apparently.

Yep. I likes graveyards, me.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 02:36 PM

On one of my visits to England, I accidentally discovered not one but TWO graves of men named James Dixon.

One was in Kirkby Lonsdale, Cumbria. My wife and I stayed for a week in that town, and the shortest path from the house we stayed in to the center of town happened to pass through the cemetery, so we frequently used it. The grave in question was right next to the path. I just happened to notice it.

From Kirkby Lonsdale, we made a one-day side trip by bus into the Lake District, and one of our stops was in Grasmere, where William Wordsworth was buried, so we had a look. There, not far from Wordsworth's grave, I found the grave of another James Dixon who happened to be Wordsworth's servant! (The inscription mentioned that the stone had been donated by the Wordsworth family, so I looked him up later.) I had never heard of him before.

As far as I know, neither of these men is related to me, and I did not go there with the intention of looking for graves of people named Dixon. This was total coincidence. And in the same week!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 03:30 PM

Being an old maker and setter of gravestones, I have a hard time passing a cemetery, especially old ones. It's great having a father-in-law buried in Arlington National, for instance -- did you know that there is an entire section there dedicated to "colored troops" and "colored people" from the Washington, DC area?

Or that slate was used in Nova Scotia for tombstones for the Loyalists who fled there after the American Revolution? Or have you ever seen an anvil with a broken hammer on it, all carved in stone, for the grave of an old-time blacksmith?

I HIGHLY recommend cemeteries as places to take a stroll. Usually shady and quiet, you can get some thinking done or, if nothing else, learn something about the history of the area.

By the way -- don't overlook the possibility that those orphans in the mass grave may have died as the result of a fire rather than a disease.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 03:33 PM

That's a good way of remebering - Thanks Garg! You know, when I saw it written I thought it was wrong. I blame my internal spulling chocker...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: sian, west wales
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 05:27 PM

For those interested in military cemeteries, I've also been to Bodelwyddan in North Wales to pay my respects to the men who died in Kinmel Camp just after WW1. Not Canada's finest hour.

sian

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 09:22 PM

Fleetwood's cemetery has the gravestone of Joe Maley (Jack Easy), the "Musical Midshipman", subject of the first Mudcat thread I can remember contributing to:- Lyr Req: THE CONCERTINA MAN .

There is also a stone marking the grave of Arthur Sinclair, a captain in the Confederate navy. He came over to Liverpool to take command of the Leila (spelt Lelia on the headstone), newly built for the Confederate side. She had to be surreptitiously brought out of port under a Turkish master, control to be handed over to Sinclair when the ship was beyond territorial waters. In the storm that blew up in the Irish Sea, it was discovered that handles for the ships pumps had not accompanied the ship to sea. The Leila was swamped in heavy seas and Captain Sinclair was lost. Several weeks later, his body was trawled up by local fishermen and brought back by them to Fleetwood. An inquest was held in the Steamer Hotel, Dock Street, Fleetwood and local people subscribed for a memorial to this stranger who had arrived on their shores.

The room in which the inquest was held is named the Sinclair Room in his memory. It is now the home of Fleetwood Folk Club, forty years old this month. Both of the above men have had songs written in their honour, "The Concertina Man" by Alan Bell, And "Arthur Sinclair" by Ron Baxter.

Ross

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Oct 09 - 10:09 PM

Years ago, I was setting a stone in the local Jewish cemetery. Throughout the process I had a distinct feeling of "Get out as quickly as you can! You are not wanted here!" So I did the work and did it well (if I hadn't The Boss would have seen I'd become a member of The Great Majority!) and got.

Perhaps forty years later I was talking with my brother, who had followed me in the job. He too had had the same experience in the same cemetery.

Odd...and I haven't been back.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 03:46 AM

My husband was listening to Paul Jones on Radio Two and he played something by Blind Lemon Jefferson (?) called Look After My Grave When I've Gone (or something like that), and told a story of whoever was singing the song actually found is grave, and it was a complete mess! Maybe not enough people heard the song?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 03:47 AM

A Durham (UK) vicar was lately distressed at the amount of vandalism taking place in his fine old cemetery and decided to start a public fund to restore the toppled headstones. The fund was a great success, capturing the imagination of the local press as well as his parishioners. Some months in however, said said vicar received a visit from sheepish dignitaries of the Durham District Council who informed him that his precious headstones hadn't been vandalised as such, rather they'd been made safe by lowly paid youths passing as council workers according to a Heath and Safety remit implemented after a child was crushed in a freak accident involving a falling headstone in Nottingham - or was it Norwich? Either way, the enthusiasm of these council gravestone topplers knew no reasonable bounds, as a visit to many of Durham's once fine cemeteries will testify.

Not so Saint Oswald's, happily, wherein stands the headstone of The Poor, Poor Man, one Henry Gelston, who in this life suffered much misfortune. Henry's memorial was erected by a local benefactor who bought up all the plots between Henry's grave and the road with the notion that because in life he was behind everyone, in death he would be behind no-one. Worth a look if you're passing; you'll find his headstone by the steps that come off the river path into the graveyard.

What do you call a pile of gabardine raincoats in a cemetery?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 04:17 AM

I've only spent time in 3 cemeteries - all part of Australia's history.

Norfolk Island - settled 1788 by a party from the first British settlement in Sydney, still in use.

Old Goulburn cemetery - first cemetery in Australia's oldest inland city, in use c.1822-1959. Local children visit & leave soft toys on children's graves.
The cemetery is behind Goulburn jail, the highest security jail in Australia & home of many of our most notorious murderers.

Rookwood Cemetery - Sydney's largest cemetery - still in use.
My father's parents were buried there & I eventually found their graves - she was buried in a double plot on the outside edge of the Anglican section, he was buried about 15 years later with his mother on the opposite edge of the Catholic area, instead of beside her. Dunno why, he wasn't a catholic.
I didn't have a camera when I visited maybe 20 years ago & am planning to visit again one day soonish with camera.

I'd also like to visit Woronora Cemetery where my mother's family are buried.

Info on Sydney's early burials & cemeteries

sandra

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 09:51 AM

Properly installed stones don't fall unless "acted upon by some outside force." Tell the Council to go do something useful.

My great-uncle was Sexton for several cemeteries for many years. For a while he had a problem with teenagers sneaking in long after dark, sometimes toppling stones but usually for, ah, co-educational activities. One night he lay in wait behind a large stone and the expected couples arrived around midnight. "Oh, tee hee," giggled one of the girls, "suppose we see a ghost?"

Up popped my great-uncle, roaring, "I'll ghost you, you sonuvabitch!"

Following this statement my uncle was again alone with the dead, some of whom could, I understand, be heard giggling underground.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: fretless
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 11:21 AM

Archaeologists in the US have long used colonial cemeteries in studies of how artifact styles change, counting on the fact that gravestones offer linked data on style (in the decoration), text (the inscriptions) and form (the shape of the stones themselves). These variables combine to demonstrate the nature of material change over time. The historic transition in 17th to 19th century colonial American gravestones from decorations featuring death's heads to cherubs to neo-classical urn and willow patterns, and inscriptions that evolved from "Here lies…" to "Sacred to the memory of…" was studied initially back in the 1960s focusing on the stones in New England cemeteries. An update looking at the early cemeteries in New York City was published in the 1980s here, and an update to that was done in the 1990s.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 06:30 PM

When I was a social worker and had "field days" I would frequently pick up a sunwich and drive to Hollywood Cemetary in Richmond, Va. where several US prssidents are buried... Also buried there is Jefferson Davis who was the Presdent of the Confederate States of America... That's where I liked to have my lunch because it is such a beautiful spot on the back side of the cemetary and right above the James River... Very peacefull place to find in the middle of a busy city...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 04:01 AM

I promised to reveal all on Laucelot C Tulip and then forgot.

The C stands for...














Wait for it...














Chicken! Honestly. All Euphemia's other children had 'normal' names. Wonder why LC deserved the special treatment?

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 08:54 AM

The studies, fretless, have only been done is the Northeastern US. The same should be done in the South, in the Old Northwest, and in the cemeteries along the Oregon and Santa Fe trails. In fact, the Spanish Southwest alone offers a rich field of study, as do the stones in Mormon country. (I'm not talking about the touristy headboards put up at various "boot hills".)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 09:01 AM

"Chicken! Honestly. All Euphemia's other children had 'normal' names. Wonder why LC deserved the special treatment?"

Maybe it was a cock-up at the christening.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 09:06 AM

The local Jewish cemetery was just Butt Hill Road. Completely irrelevent but made for some very interesting conversations when we were kids and couldn't quite understand that the Butt Hill cemetery was not the one in Tombstone and why orthodox Jews wore cowboy hats...

:D (eG)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 09:27 AM

So.................

What do you call a pile of gabardine raincoats in a cemetery?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 09:44 AM

Would it be a burberrial mound?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 10:02 AM

You owe me a new keyboad, Leveller...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 10:20 AM

"Chicken! Honestly. All Euphemia's other children had 'normal' names. Wonder why LC deserved the special treatment?"

Maybe they were Native Americans in origin and decided to name their son after the first thing they saw when he was born. Could have been worse - he could have been called Launcelot Twodogsfucking Tulip.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 05:27 PM

So.................

What do you call a pile of gabardine raincoats in a cemetery?

Max Bygraves

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 06:38 AM

Hehehe - Nice one S O'P.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 07:13 AM

I think it was one of Tommy Coopers; I had the pleasure of telling it to Spleen in person the other night at a gig we were doing for the Wigan Area Society for Paranormal Study and Investigation...

Yesterday we visited the grave of Meg Shelton / Skelton, alleged witch of Woodplumpton, near Preston, Lancashire, UK, circa 1705, whose final resting place is marked by the huge boulder they rolled over her to stop her crawling out - as she had a habit of doing, post mortem! Touching to see an offering of carnations.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Paul Burke
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 01:38 PM

In the graveyard of the old St. John's Church on Bolton Road, not a caterpillar's limp from el Gnomo's adobe, there used to be a headstone, obviously placed by grieving parents for their son, in anticipation of their joining him there. Sadly, for some reason, that never happened, so the stone simply read

             Joseph Bloggs*
            Son of the Above

Above being totally blank.



*Or whatever

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 01:45 PM

I must look up that one, Paul. One of the victims of the Munich air disaster, Geoff Bent, is also in there somewhere and I never looked that up either.

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: RangerSteve
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 02:41 PM

There are quite a few around my area (Hunterdon County, NJ), nice old ones, but they're mostly inaccessable, usually in areas where you can't park nearby. But they're kept reasonably clean, something that doesn't often happen when cemeteries get old.

My favorite visitable one is Woodlawn in the Bronx. Duke Ellington is buried there, along with a number of really grand mauseleums of well-known American families. They're worth checking out for the over-done architecture.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 06:20 PM

I hope the joke re' naming of Native Americans dies off some day.

I LOVE cemeteries as do my children. My earliest memories include a yearly trek to the one in Colorado where my great-grandparents and grandparents, plus mom, aunts and uncles, are buried: Highland Cemetery in New Castle, CO...similar to the one BillD mentioned in Central City. That gate is no longer usable, though. The cemetery is up on a high hill which one reaches by a winding road which used to go past fields of alfalfa and grazing cattle. Now, they have bought up the land around it, carved out the hill on the south and west sides so that there are huge drop-offs and one must drive through a glorified golf course which has a path through the cemetery in order to get to the cemetery. We "old-timers" hate it, but at least it is still there and so will I be some day when my family take my ashes up there.

When I find them, I will also post a couple of pix from our fav. cemeteries in Stonington and Mystic, CT. SO many intriguing and sad headstones there. Plus I've told the story before of the one in CT which has my daughter's first name, an unusual name common in old times in New England on it. The place had an unwelcome feeling to it and each time I tried to take her picture standing near the stone, the film was blank. All other pix of the day turned out. I think it was our third or fourth trip there, we were finally "allowed" to get a picture with her in it next to the stone of "******* Good Wife of etc."

Doc Holiday is buried in Glenwood Springs, where my brother and sister were born, just up the road from Highland Cemetery.

I love cemeteries!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Alice
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 07:07 PM

When I was growing up, we would go on weekend road trips in good weather, just driving around exploring. My parents loved doing this. My dad liked to drive and my mom liked to wander through ghost towns and old cemeteries. We would take fishing poles just in case there was a creek wherever we ended up. There are many old abandoned ghost towns in Montana, places where we also would pan gold in the streams, look for sapphires or agates, garnets, rocks, fossils, other old artifacts. I have photos of myself as a child standing among old over-grown tombstones and weathered wooden crosses.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Alice
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 07:15 PM

Here is one we really liked to visit:

Elkhorn, Montana (ghost town) There are numerous typos in that article, including 1983 instead of 1883.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Janie
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 08:48 PM

We of course do not have extant burying grounds with long-lived markers as old as those in the UK, but as I read through this thread, that seems not to matter.

There are three cemeteries in what was my town until a year ago in which I love to walk or sit. There is the original cemetery of the Episcopal church I attend, St. Matthew's, which was lost to the Presbyterian Church as the result of the Revolutionary War. (Long story of historical significance that I won't go into here.) In terms of Anglo history in the southern USA, St. Matthews was the first Episcopal parrish established in North Carolina. There is the nearly as old cemetery at the current Episcopal Church. Last, but certainly not least, is the slave cemetery on Margaret Lane, where the oldest and biggest tree in Hillsborough stood until a severe storm knocked down that grand old oak several years ago.

The slave cemetery is very different from the other two. There are few, if any, extant markers. A lot of research has gone into determining who is buried there, and there is a large granite stone with a brass plate that lists the names of those who have been documented, and as research continues, names are occasionally added. After the Civil War it was in use until sometime in the early 1930's.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Janie
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:24 PM

This spring, my parents, sister, son and I made a pilgrimage to the area around Flat Gap, in Johnson Co., eastern Kentucky, where my paternal ancesters moved around the time of the Revolutionary War. We met, for the 1st time, my grandmother's elderly cousin and her daughter, both of whom still live in the area, and who graciously acted as our guides.

In southern and central Appalachia, there is a long tradition of small family graveyards at the tops of the highest ridges on family farms. We spent a wonderful weekend climbing up the hollers to visit sites where our ancestors are buried, and I brought home some irises and bulbs planted on the graves of a great, great grandmother. Some of the graveyards we wanted most to visit were not accessible in the spring mud or because the climb was so steep and the woods so overgrown and dense with brush and greenbriar that my 85 year old father absolutely could not have made the climb, but would have been determined to come with us. We knew from postings to our family geneology website that the ones we didn't reach were hard, tricky and treacherous climbs for even people reasonably fit. (He is very crippled with arthritis and both worried us to death and astounded and delighted us with his determination as he climbed a number of steep hills. It cost him dearly physically, but the pleasure he had from visiting these places more than paid the price.)

Standing among the headstones on top of those hills, feeling the spring wind, gazing at the vistas and the valley floors, and watching the clouds scud accross the sky, dancing to the tune made by the sound of the bare tree limbs moving in the breeze, was a feeling I really can't describe.

The most moving headstones were those that were rough slabs of native rock, lovingly and completely unskillfully chiseled with mispelled names and misquoted bible verses.

Cousin Lexie is about 20 years younger than my grandmother. Her mother, and then she, have seen to it that the brush got cleared off of these small plots over many long years. I am grateful beyond words. She is in her 90's now, sharp of mind but with a walker. don't know what will happen to these hallowed old places when she is gone.

Having said that, it is also common in West Virginia and eastern Kentucky, as old homeplaces get sold off and broken up, for the new owners to simply have the respect to see to it that the old bone orchards don't completely disappear under brush and greenbriar.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 07:40 AM

I've been spending a lot of time in cemeteries over the past 40 years (but damned little lately; sigh). 40 years of seriously pursuing gravestone inscriptions, but actually longer, going back to adolescence and family cemeteries in Wisconsin and peering into Calvary Cemetery in Milwaukee on my bus rides to and from work. My area of particular interest is New England slate markers from about 1650 to 1825-ish (my eyes glaze over at willows-and-urns) and particularly the work of John Just Geyer (son of Henry Christian Geyer), stonecutter. But I have a major interest in all funerary art and especially ligatures and typography on gravestones, even more than the art in the tympanums.

I was originally sucked in, I mean, drawn to Mudcat on a gravestone thread and signed my name Linn, the Thanatolithologist.

We can easily turn this into a music thread, by the way. A number of years ago I acquired a recently published book entitled, "Gravestone Tourist -- Musicians" which covered mostly classical and jazz. Some pop and rock. The closest it came to folk was Woody Guthrie's grave.

Well. I managed (about 15 years ago on the way home from Indian Neck weekend) to come across Professor Child's grave. Tom almost tripped over it -- "James Francis Child / Editor, English and Scottish Ballads" in the fascinating cemetery of his wife's family.

We (including Tom and Jeri) also found Timothy Myrick's grave -- he's the bloke who got bit in the ankle by a rattlesnake in the song "Springfield Mountain".

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 08:09 AM

Jimmy Clitheroe, comedian

Respect. No doubt I'll be checking that one out over the weekend....

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 01:28 PM

We can easily turn this into a music thread, by the way.

Thanks for the offer but no thanks - In the OP I mentioned Charls Halle but I decided to put it below stairs as most of it was non-music.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Old Cemeteries
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 28 Oct 09 - 03:57 PM

Just returned home from checking out Sir William Pepperrell's table marker in Kittery Point, Maine (just a bit over the Piscataqua River from Portsmouth, New Hampshire). They've recently cut down all the surrounding brush, and cleared the tree limbs blocking it and restored the marker itself. It was pelting rain, blowing and a bit on the chilly side. I didn't get too wet while clearing off the damp pine needles covering the stone. The marble table stone was lettered in England, but set on native granite. Very nice coat of arms.

Note this is NEW England -- USA -- I'm speaking of.

We (The Dog Watch -- representing the Portsmouth Maritime Folk Festival) will be singing sea music at the dedication ceremony on Nov. 7th and at the reception at the Kittery Historical and Naval Museum. The family gravesite is just up the hill from where Sir William's wharves were in the 17th and 18th centuries.

Linn