Would you buy a new Toyota ??

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 08:58 AM

Date: 14 Feb 10 - 06:40 PM

I don't buy into a conspiracy designed to sell more American cars.
What I see is the fact that this is the largest recall ever undertaken by an international car manufacturer.

I also see foot dragging by Toyota going for the least possible fix by first blaming floor mats then blaming a flexible pedal now being "reinforced" with a postage stamp size metal shim and a reluctance to even address the various braking problems.
The real acceleration problem may involve electronic relays interfacing with cruise control and a host of totally seperate brake problems.

The accusation of today's Toyota of being 'complaint deaf' is well founded. The Toyota response from the top down is now promising but remains to be proven effective. A memo at Toyota has surfaced praising the avoidance of recalling problem vehicles (including models not on the current problem list) and the benefit of saving hundreds of millions of dollars. Yay good job Toyota! You saved a buck.

The 9-11 call recording of a driver with 3 passengers in an out of control accelerating Toyota, just prior to all 4 people being killed is one of the most haunting "black box" type recordings I have ever heard.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Feb 10 - 08:53 AM

So what really should concern new Toyota owners is the question of whether the electronics are malfunctioning, resulting in uncontrolled engine acceleration. According to an ABC News follow-up story on television last evening, an engineering firm has been able to replicate such a problem under certain weather conditions (and demonstrated what happened to a reporter who was driving one of their vehicles) and the incident did not leave any "malfunction" note in the vehicle's computer database.

The engineering firm plans to present its testing results at the current Congressional hearings.

I'd find this report unsettling if I were driving a new Toyota. And my wife does!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: kendall
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 09:01 PM

Drive a high end Hyundai, then add up the difference you saved.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Folkiedave
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 06:14 AM

Just changed the battery for the first time at 125,000 miles. New brake pipes recently and a suspension arm.

Not bad - Toyota Corolla Estate. Buy a new Toyota?

I wouldn't dream of buying anything else.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: MikeL2
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 05:30 AM

Hi Kendall

Over here in UK the Yaris certainly has an hook up system to keep the floor mats neat.

Incidently today I have just received the letter from Toyota to book the Yaris in for the recall.

Hope you are keeping well.

Regards

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: kendall
Date: 22 Feb 10 - 04:31 AM

Some American cars have a hole and a hook to keep the mat from sliding up under the gas pedal.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 Feb 10 - 09:49 PM

As some have suggested?

Toyota saved $100 million by limiting recall

Internal documents show results of negotiations with regulators in 2007

The Associated Press
updated 6:23 p.m. CT, Sun., Feb. 21, 2010

WASHINGTON - Toyota officials claimed they saved the company $100 million by successfully negotiating with the government on a limited recall of floor mats in some Toyota and Lexus vehicles, according to new documents shared with congressional investigators.

Toyota, in an internal presentation in July 2009 at its Washington office, said it saved $100 million or more by negotiating an "equipment recall" of floor mats involving 55,000 Toyota Camry and Lexus ES350 vehicles in September 2007.

The savings are listed under the title, "Wins for Toyota — Safety Group." The document cites millions of dollars in other savings by delaying safety regulations, avoiding defect investigations and slowing down other industry requirements.

[and more at the link]

Nothing conclusive here, but it's been the subject of "suspicions" among quite a few industry gossips.

John

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 04:31 AM

After posting (2d up from here) a brief visit to the MSNBC "news" page got 18 out of 20 links to articles returned as "Page not found," and deleting any one of the tabs wiped out the links that showed good on the tabs. Apparently they got hacked, or lost a major server.

The site is back to it's normal mediocre, and the link (10 Biggest Auto Recalls) is working now, if anyone's interested in those "details."

John

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 02:00 AM

I will never buy any new car again.

1) You lost a fortune the minute you drive it off the lot.

2) You don't know what the car is really like.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 10 - 12:20 AM

What I see is the fact that this is the largest recall ever undertaken by an international car manufacturer.

MSNBC had a slide show of The 10 Biggest Auto Recalls in the US at 10 Biggest Auto Recalls. I opened the site and collected the URL to post here, but when I tested it in the preview, I got a "Page Not Found." Returning to the MSNBC main site (Business|Autos) the link posted also gives "Page Not Found." Apparently they didn't want me telling you about it.

But since I copied the page:

10: Honda
Number of vehicles recalled: 3.7 million
Year of recall: 1995

9: Volkswagen
Number of vehicles recalled: 3.7 million
Year of recall: 1972

8: General Motors
Number of vehicles recalled: 3.7 million
Year of recall: 1973

7: Ford
Number of vehicles recalled: 4 million
Year of recall: 1972

6: Ford
Number of vehicles recalled: 4.5 million
Year of recall: 2009

5: Ford
Number of vehicles recalled: 4.5 million
Year of recall: 2005

4: Toyota
Number of vehicles recalled: 5.4 million
Year of recall: 2009

3: General Motors
Number of vehicles recalled: 5.8 million
Year of recall: 1981

2: General Motors
Number of vehicles recalled: 6.7 million
Year of recall: 1971

1: Ford
Number of vehicles recalled: 7.9 million
Year of recall: 1996

Details are given for each of the above recalls, and I'll leave the link in case it's just down for an update. Some were comparable, and some much less serious than the recent Toyota recall, especially in terms of safety. Several of them were addressed promptly enough the get the fixes in place before there were significant numbers of "adverse experiences," but a couple - IIRC - did display signs of some delays that suggest a lack of enthusiasm by the makers.


Relative to the lack of response - and/or excessive delays in respoding - by Toyota:

I've dealt with quite a few individuals in US companies, and in a few other "western" companies, who "stonewalled," ignored, or just blathered uninelligibly when asked a direct question.

In many such cases, the unspoken answer was "my boss - or his boss - will have my ass if I tell you."

Uniformly, in my own direct experience, when individuals in Japanese companies were unresponsive or evasive, the unspoken answer was just "it's not my place to speak."

In other words, the culture withholds authority and suppresses free communication. Within limits, this may be a good thing for the worker, since it also diverts responsibility to others; but for an outsider it can be nearly impossible to find who's "place" it is to give an answer. Often, it seems, by the time one gets far enough up the chain, no one who's place it might be has an answer since the problem exists at a level unseen by those at higher (cultural or administrative) echelons.

I can't be sure to what extent this is part of Toyota's current difficulties; but of course I have my own suspicions.

John

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: frogprince
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 02:03 PM

Pardon the aside, but when did everyone start calling a carolla a sub compact? What are they calling a Yaris now?

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: gnu
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 12:22 PM

Power steering.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: MikeL2
Date: 15 Feb 10 - 02:57 PM

hi tangle wood

Yes your description fits my experience with Fiat.

Except that I had no problem with Fiat spaeres. We are lucky enough to have a Fiat Main Dealer near us and they always had what I needed.

cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Feb 10 - 02:23 PM

Some other names now are offering an "upgrade bonus" in the vicinity of an extra $1,000 discount if you trade in a Toyota on their brand.

Toyota reportedly has met that with a "loyalty bonus" of $1,000 if you trade in an old Toyota for a new one.

Toyota is rumored to be considering an additional ~$1,000 "competitive bonus" in an attempt to stimulate sales. This bonus may not appear until the "patches" for current recalls are firm.

There is also talk of improvements in warranties (to as much as 5 years or 100,000 miles) and a "free maintenance" warranty (labor only?) for all services recommended during the warranty period.

A very few bullish investors are saying it's time to buy Toyota stock "while they're near the bottom." (???)

New advertising campaigns are obviously needed, and suggestions for new "tag lines" are all over the place:

"TOYOTA - JUST TRY AND STOP US"

"TOYOTA - THE LAST CAR YOU'LL EVER BUY"

(No confirmation from Toyota on most likely ad changes as yet, so stay tuned.)

John

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Tangledwood
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 11:55 PM

Hi MikeL2, your experience with Fiat sounds similar to mine with an Alfa Sud many moons ago. That thing could really fly on a 1200cc engine, but rust!   I got some removed from around the windscreen area. A new windscreen rubber seal had to be flown out from Italy. Wouldn't you think that would be an item in frequent enough demand to keep a stock in the country?

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 07:05 PM

It was reported on the latest BBC Radio 4 news quiz that a driving test examiner refused to test a candidate who was driving a Toyota...!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 06:40 PM

I don't buy into a conspiracy designed to sell more American cars.
What I see is the fact that this is the largest recall ever undertaken by an international car manufacturer.

I also see foot dragging by Toyota going for the least possible fix by first blaming floor mats then blaming a flexible pedal now being "reinforced" with a postage stamp size metal shim and a reluctance to even address the various braking problems.
The real acceleration problem may involve electronic relays interfacing with cruise control and a host of totally seperate brake problems.

The accusation of today's Toyota of being 'complaint deaf' is well founded. The Toyota response from the top down is now promising but remains to be proven ewffective.

The 9-11 call recording of a driver with 3 passengers in an out of control accelerating Toyota, just prior to all 4 people being killed is one of the most haunting "black box" type recordings I have ever heard.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: kendall
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 04:40 PM

There is no such thing as an America car anyway. My '06 Impala was made in Canada.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: kendall
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 04:38 PM

Toyota is a victim of its own success. Too much demand, not enough supply. They are still great cars, but there are others just as good. You pay for the name.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: MikeL2
Date: 14 Feb 10 - 05:44 AM

Hi tangle wood

< " In older cars it was very dangerous to turn the key off while moving as there was a likelihood of engaging the steering lock. That's not possible now unless park is selected.">

You are right of course. The Fiat 124S that I had an accelerator problem with.I did turn off the engine not knowing about the potential problem that I could have had.

I didn't have any problem then but I did have problems with it afterwards on a trip to London. I had stopped at a motorway service staion and when I tried to start my onward journey I couldn't release the steering lock. I had to have the AA come and disable the lock for me.

Best engine I ever had in a car but the worst bodywork. The mechanic where I used to get my cars serviced told me that Fiat engines are like Italian wives - they need flogging hard and often.    lol


cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: EBarnacle
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 11:02 PM

Of course I would. Almost every vehicle gets recalled at least once. My 10 year old Ford Windstar just had a recall relating to the cruise control. The more elctronic vehicles become, the less reliable they become and the more vulnerable they become. This Fall, I was driving a rented KIA Sedona and the electronic linkage between the fuel pedal and the fuel injection failed. I limped the vehicle back to the lot [15 miles] at idle and got it exchanged.

Lady Hillary and I have two Toyotas. One is an '81 Celica GT which is available to movies and similar uses. The other is a '91 MR2 which, after 160,000 miles just got a new engine and enough bodywork to make it look new. A couple of years ago, we replaced the struts and lowered the car by an inch. Between the new drive train and new suspension "MR 2" is a really hot machine. We may play with the gearing next.

The problem is not with Toyota or with Citroen/Peugot. It is with the Chinese. Getting anything manufactured in China is a crapshoot. The company I am with tried to get components made in China. They agree to your specifications, take your money and take any shortcuts they wish as soon as you are out of sight.

As long as lack the same business ethics the rest of the world has, they can manufacture anything cheaper than anyone else. They do, however, have problems with quality and will continue to do so. This may be the salvation of the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Tangledwood
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 10:00 PM

Found those sort of tricks in a car we were trying to jumpstart. Couldn't turn the ignition switch, couldn't disengage Park.

The Prado has an over-ride switch near the gear shift that enables the shift to be moved if there is no electrical power. Don't know about the other Toyota models.

It is possible to shift from drive to neutral without touching the brakes.

In older cars it was very dangerous to turn the key off while moving as there was a likelihood of engaging the steering lock. That's not possible now unless park is selected.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 09:51 PM

Perhaps of interest:

A New Toyota Promise

It may not be easy for everyone to read between the lines, but maybe they're promising to open the mail and start answering questions?

John

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 08:14 PM

JohniK, a very interesting post. At one time, I had some dealings with Honda, as they were expanding into foreign assembly, and found the same reluctance to acknowledge there was any fault whatsoever within the company or with the product. The exception was the most senior engineer, who had spent time in America.

Kendall, we looked at a Hyundai, but I decided I'd prefer to live without the interior decor.

Gnu. Yes. Found those sort of tricks in a car we were trying to jumpstart. Couldn't turn the ignition switch, couldn't disengage Park. Couldn't get it to where we could reach it. Had to remove and recharge the battery. And the alarm didn't like that!

I remember a story where a lady of small stature, who'd run out of fuel, coasted down a hill to the station. She'd never driven a car without power brakes and steering, and wasn't strong enough to do a job of it. Took out all the pumps.
Maybe an urban legend.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 05:56 PM

"The car behind is a Toyota"

Oh, F**********8*****************!"





Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: TwickFolk - PM
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 09:58 AM

There's a movie connection....will that do?

"Toyotal Recall" <<<<

Gerry, you should win a prize for *that* one! I'm rolling down here in Devon...absolutely rolling around..so funny!

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 05:28 PM

Gurney -

Member, (emeritis now), SAE International, 50+ years.

I get monthly magazines and direct email news from about the most authoritative international industry "sources" around. I read what other "public" sources say, including WWW sources that I've found reasonably reliable; but check directly with NHTSA and CPSA reports when supporting information seems needed. I generally track insurance industry reports, but give them somewhat less credence than some others. I don't do blogs or "user postings" as a source of information.

I don't consider, and haven't said I consider, the recent Toyota, Honda, or Ford actions discussed in this thread to be particularly signficant, or that they are any reason not to consider Toyota a viable choice; but the NHTSA confirms that Toyota has, recently, been one of the "least responsive" to a range of significant complaints by NHTSA when they have been informed of reports of failures that should be investigated. They have simply "not answered" a rather long list of NHTSA inquiries, some of which likely do include defects that merit significant corrective action, possibly including recalls.

I have also dealt directly with several Japanese companies, including face-to-face meetings in Japan, and have my own impression of some difficulties in "communicating" through a maze of "cultural differences" that inhibit getting corrective action when defects are discovered. The same problems I found "at a personal level" are apparently the same ones that have produced the "unresponsive" Toyota attitude toward the NHTSA reports that need replies.

In other words, a Toyota today is not quite the same as the Toyota you've had for five or twenty years, and the "attention to detail" that was apparent while Toyota was trying to grow in foreign markets (and produced smaller numbers of vehicles in fewer factories) is no longer something that can be automatically - and blindly - assumed.

There is some indication that Toyota recognizes a deterioration in the efficiency of their production and quality control systems. Speaking with respect to the US market, one "senior executive," (speaking anonyously, of course, but identifiable if you know the context) recently stated "We did better when we were Number 2." A different(?) one (also speaking anonymously but probably identifiable) recently stated "We would rather be Number 2."

(Blunt statements like the above two are considered "impolite" within Japanese companies. Perhaps one should say "former senior executive" but I haven't seen a documented "reaction" - yet - by Toyota.)

As their market share has increased, especially in the US, Toyota has benefited from "economies of scale;" but has now reached the point of recognizing the "diseconomies of scale" that result from being "unmanageably too big." This has been a problem for (most) US makers for some time, and ineffective "reorganizations" have been a common - but questionably useful - remedy. One might expect something similar from Toyota, although they're unlikely to publicly explain what might be happening "inside" the company.

Giving someone within Toyota the permission and authority to answer the outstanding Notices of Concern from the NHTSA would be a good place to start, but seems unlikely within what I've seen (personally) of Japanese "business culture."

John

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 04:54 PM

On most new cars, you have to depress the brake pedal to shift gears between forward, neutral and reverse. No?

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 04:47 PM

Kendall: report I heard (via my wife, not sure the source) was that they TRIED to put it in neutral but were unable. Things are seldom as simple as they seem. She didn't know if they tried turning the key off.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: kendall
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 04:06 PM

The media reports such things because people are being killed!

I wouldn't buya new Toyota because the cost too much. The Hyundai is every bit as good.

We drive a 4 years old Chevy Impala and I will put it up against any rice burner.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: kendall
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 03:58 PM

These people who just let their car take off like that; doesn't it dawn on them to turn the switch off? Or step on the brake and put it in neutral?DUH!

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 02:25 PM

The driveshaft problem that JohniK speaks of: My son points out that Ford and Mazda have it, too, but that they are NOT doing recall checks. They bought from the same source.

I'm unsure where he got this information. Probably from the WWW, knowing him. If it is true, it reflects well on Toyota.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 02:22 PM

Also we must keep in mind that Toyota's mistakes are going to be multiplied because they sell so many cars. If you look at recallable errors per model per year, the difference might not be as great, but by looking at units recalled, Toyota is going to look far worse because they sell far more units per model per year.

O..O
=o=

(That said, I'm a Honda man myself, but I've never seen more rapturous car owners than for Toyota and Honda -- you just don't find Chevy owners rhapsodizing about multiple generations of Chevies without any problems or worries. At least I haven't. Nor has Consumer Reports.)

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 01:09 PM

I sniff a conspiracy here... I mean, over the years other car makers have put out some very unsafe cars and never got this much bad PR... How many people burned up in Pinholes??? How many burn up each year in Chevy trucks??? Remember the Audi that folks said accelerated by itself??? If you have ever worked in a new car service department you'd be amazed by the number of bulletins and recalls there are for messed up stuff...

Jus' MO, of course...

B~

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 12:36 PM

Just because a car won't stop properly or go properly does not mean you should not buy it. We buy a lot of dangerous crap.

My car was made by a company that is now banckrupt, but the brakes and throttle do work while the windows and cigarette lighters do not.

If its not one thing its another.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 12:08 PM

Just popped in to say I just bought a new Toyota.... can't stop!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: gnu
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 06:55 AM

Got this in an e this AM.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: MikeL2
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 05:30 AM

Hi Guys

Many thanks for all your interesting comments.

It is mainly as I expected. Toyota quality has not collapsed overnight and the media hype is ( even for the media) completely over the top.

As I said in my opening comment we have had several Toyotas all of which have performed brilliantly and economically.

We have a Yaris that is due to be re-called any time for the inspection amd modification. But we have had absolutely no problems with it. Since the accelerator announcement I have been trying to make it happen without succeeding.

Having said this many years ago I was driving a Fiat 124S and had been on a long trip on the motorway driving at a constant 70 - 80 mph.
I had to take the Cheltenham exit and when I took my foot off the pedal it stayed down hard to the boards.

Luckily the motorway was quiet and the exit off was uphill. I stuck it into neutral and switched off and slowly braked and stopped.

I looked under the bonnet and saw that the throttle cable was frayed. I wrapped it as tight as I could and drove very slowly to the next garage where they replaced it for me.

I reported it to Fiat and was told that this was merely a problem of wear and tear and was to be expected.

Toyoto have acted rapidly and totally to a far more minor problem. This one was dangerous.

cheers

MikeL2

PS I quickly got shut of the Fiat.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 04:17 AM

An additional, if somewhat smaller recall just announced:

Toyota recalls 8,000 Tacoma trucks

Problem with drive shaft could cause vehicle to lose control.

A similar problem in earlier model Tacomas was reported some time back, but the article does not indicate whether this recall is related. Recollection is that the earlier reports produced "studies," and "dealer inspections" were offered, but those earlier defect problems did not result in a recall.

John

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Helen
Date: 13 Feb 10 - 03:01 AM

My Dad is a retired motor mechanic and he worked for an electricity supply company for about 30 years before his retirement in about 1990. The company changed over to Toyota cars and trucks at least 20 years before he retired.

He was so impressed with their reliability that he stuck with Toyotas until 2004 - that's 3 second hand cars over about 40 years. He bought a new Kia a couple of years ago. When I asked him why he wasn't buying Toyota, as I was very surprised, he said he is in his 80's and probably won't be driving for much longer so it doesn't matter if it doesn't last long.

I bought my first Toyota, a new Corolla station wagon, in 1979. I kept it for 17 years and only sold it because I had use of a company car for a year & a half. In 1997 I bought a 1989 model Camry wagon, then in 2004 I bought Dad's 1996 sedan. Dad had kept it in peak condition and a crazy driver wrote it off in a couple of seconds in 2007. I was so upset, and the insurance payout I got for it could never compensate me for the loss. It was worth at least twice as much because of its condition.

I bought a 2005 Corolla wagon in 2007. I doubt very much whether I would ever buy any other brand. (Probably only if they go out of business.) I have had minimum trouble and maximum value from my Toyotas for the past 31 years.

My hubby has fun winding me up about Toyotas, but I will stick to them because I trust the brand. (He calls them "Jap-crap" but he loves the Mazda he bought a year ago. He was a Ford man before that.)

Helen

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 11:06 PM

Yeah.....But more because I like palindromes............

"What kind of car do you drive?"

a Toyota


Spaw

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Gurney
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 10:39 PM

My 10 year old Camry V6 is going very well. It doesn't feel as happy on corners as the Mitsi we had previously, but it doesn't balk at them. The Mitsi was always trying to get you to corner harder.

If anyone does suffer from a sticking throttle, switch off the ignition and STAND on the brake pedal. Engine-braking will stop the car, even if the brakes are non-existant, and it WILL feel a bit that way as the brake-boost disappears. Just don't pull the key out.
I used to work in car assembly, and not all newly-built cars are perfectly assembled. You CAN slowly drive a car that has neither brakes nor clutch working. But it needs thought.

Not a powerful car with the throttle jammed open, though.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 08:43 PM

"If your brakes don't work properly, or your accelerator has a mind of its own, those are not trivial problems. They put your life, and other people's lives, at severe risk. McGrath

"The specific complaints about unintentional acceleration and erratic braking are "minor" if viewed only in the context of the number of reports from users, and the number of incidents recorded in official records; but if one of them happens to you it is a "critical event." JohninKansas

Gads. Sometimes I just don't understand people. Kevin and JohninKansas made sensible responses to others' nonsensical statements.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: open mike
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:07 PM

well, since my current Toyota For-runner is approaching 300,000 miles, i may have to get another vehicle some day...it has served me well..
just back from a 1,000 mile trip...never had a new car, except as a child, when my uncle had a Dodge dealership, and gave my folks good deals.

Since i live in the mountains, and it can snow here, plus i am a fire fighter and sometimes need to get to rather inaccessible places, the four wheel drive is a feature i often need to use.

My previous vehicle, a Ford "Exploder"
http://www.1iverating.com/item/397/4/Ford-Explorer/
did a good job for me, and before that a Dodge Colt Vista,
http://www.allpar.com/images/chrysler/1984/colt-vista.jpg
back when they held 7 passengers and were four wheel drive.
This was a Mitsubishi Plymouth/Dodge product.

Since i am about an hour from the closest town, with no mass transit, i am very dependant upon my vehicle...i carry fire gear, music gear,
tools, equipment, camping equipment, water, laundry, video equipment,
and so much more. I always have jumper cables, tow strap, and other tools and stuff on board....

I looked at the new toyota highlander...a hybrid SUV..but it cost more than a house!

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Tangledwood
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 06:05 PM

How old was it?

Both were new. So yes, you would expect trouble free operation but it confirms no design problems, as opposed to normal aging or poor maintenance.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Ed T
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:41 PM

Buy the Yaris....no danger of the car surging ahead....even if the gas pedal sticks to the floor:)

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:35 PM

Yes!!!

I am a Toyota man... I have a '91 Camry station wagon and a '01 Tacoma 4WD...

Toyota rocks!!!

B~

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: gnu
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:27 PM

How old was it?

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Tangledwood
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:25 PM

Certainly I'd buy another. I'm on my second diesel Prado (SUV), over 100,000km on this one and 130,000km on the previous one without a single mechanical problem.

Recalls are not uncommon in the automotive industry. They occur in the aviation industry too, inspite of the intensive design and testing work that goes into that.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: GUEST,Wayne, near Baltimore
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 05:02 PM

I have an eleven year old Camry and I'd buy another. I won't buy a GM product.

Subject: RE: Would you buy a new Toyota ??
From: Becca72
Date: 12 Feb 10 - 04:58 PM

I probably would, though I'm pretty darned fond of my VW