Why shout 'MacIntire'? - Old Dun Cow

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 12:05 PM

Into the pub to shelter from the rain
Came the soldier boys of Pippin Fort
With 15 grams of good cocaine
They call their leader Captain Snort.
Stood by the bar were Popeye & Olive
Bluto offered her a fag.
She said "No thanks, I roll my own,
It's true, I'd rather have a 'shag'!

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 05:52 PM

That's a very, very British little number you've got going there, Nigel. In every single stanza there's something I wouldn't know if I didn't spend so much time browsing through Wikipedia!

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Joe_F
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 06:06 PM

Nigel: Surely the apostrophe in "who're are you" is a mistake.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 07:53 PM

Joe F:
You're quite right. Ignore the "'re"
A quick check of 'Mudcat Times' will show I was typing that after 2am (It won't show I was just home from the pub!)

This version of the song, although it needs some 'bending' of the scansion of the verse, can be considered 'Public Domain' from Wednesday morning onward. (By then it will have had its first outing)

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Feb 11 - 08:28 PM

I 'think' this may be the final version:

Some friends & I in a public house,
Were playing dominoes the other night
When into the pub some characters came,
In monochrome (that's black & white)
"What's up" said I "who are you?"
"Who are these folk? I had to ask it.
There was Andy, Teddy & Looby Loo
Snuggling in their basket.

"Oh" said the landlord, never you mind,
I think tonight will sure suit you.
Refresh your pints, soon you will find,
That it's the Toytown annual do! ...
   
       Chorus:
And .. There .. was .. Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble & Grubb.
Oh how sinful, Having a skinful,
Right in the middle of our pub.
Over there was a smelly little bear,
Somebody said "That's pooh!"
And we all got blue-blind, string-tangled drunk,
At the Toytown annual do.

Then into the pub came the Tracey boys,
And Parker, with Lady P in chains.
They each bought a round of eight real ales,
But they all started drinking Brains'!
The drinking reached such a fever pitch,
That when Mr Plod came on the scene.
Barney McGrew called out for Hugh,
And painted Camberwick Green, and … there … was ...

      Chorus:

The "Riverbank" crew were sat in a corner
Quietly drinking on their own.
Ratty & Mole had a pint of "Badger's",
Badger said, "Buy your own!"
There in a smock, stood 'Windy' Miller
They say "He's a patron of the arts"
They call him "Windy" 'cos his party piece
Is setting light to his farts .. and .. there .. was ..

      Chorus:

Into the pub to shelter from the rain
Came the soldier boys of Pippin Fort
With 15 grams of good cocaine
They call their leader Captain Snort.
Stood by the bar were Popeye & Olive
Bluto offered her a fag.
Said she "No thanks, I'll roll my own,
It's true, I'd rather have a 'shag'!

      Chorus:

The animals there included Rupert The Bear,
Sean The Sheep & Lamb Chop too.
From PontyPandy, Sam Tân said;
"I think I fancy ewe!"
The 'mouse organ' played its multiple pipes
As a soggy cloth cat came in view
Professor Yaffle said "No stereotypes"
Welsh racism will not do!

      Chorus:

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Diva
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 08:26 PM

Brilliant and the tune?

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Barbara
Date: 07 Feb 11 - 09:19 PM

Oh come now, Diva, why else would this be in a thread about The Old Dun Cow?
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 10:53 AM

First performance BBC Folk Club Cardiff last night.
"Toytown Annual Do" may now be considered Public Domain.

Cheers
Nigel

Subject: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST,John Orford
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 02:58 AM

For the origin of the Copper's "The Old Dun Cow caught Fire", you nust go back to Harry Champion. But the words and music are attributed to Harry Wincott and there are two versions, one like the Coppers and one like 'Arry.

Oh, there was Brown, upside down
Mopping up the whisky on the floor
"Booze, booze, booze" the firemen cried
As they come a knockin' at the door
"Don't let em in till it's all mopped up"
Someone said to MacIntyre.
And we all got blue blind paralytic drunk
When the Old Dun Cow caught fire

MacIntyre was presumably nearest the door. This is roughly the same as Harry Champion.

And there was Brown upside down
Lappin'' up the whiskey on the floor.
"Booze, booze!" The firemen cried
As they came knockin' on the door (clap clap)
Oh don't let 'em in till it's all drunk up
And somebody shouted MacIntyre! MACINTYRE!
And we all got blue-blind paralytic drunk
When the Old Dun Cow caught fire.

The Coppers, more or less'

Harry Champion's tune is rather different to the Coppers and, of course, is sung faster.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:32 AM

In the original version the line, which makes perfect sense, is 'Somebody said to mcIntyre. He was one of the drinkers, and appears in a later verse, rarely sung today

We got so drunk that we did not know the blooming cellar had caught fire.
Poor old Jones had the D.T.'s bad and wanted to retire.
"There's Old Nick," said another poor chap, "and he's poking the blooming fire.
"That's no bogy. It's a fireman, Tom, at least," said Macintyre.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:41 PM

nigel parsons , brillint

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 12:10 PM

rhyming slang innit?

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 12:46 PM

It is brilliant, Nigel! I'd definitely like to perform it.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 07:58 AM

Guest....the part of any Rhymimg slang never rhymed with anything, that was the point, a secret code, so...me old china, never china plate....lets have a butchers   never butchers hook...I'm borassic...never borasic lint...there's a modern mockney which mises thr point with inventions such as ruby murray and brown bread.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 12:28 PM

Yorkshire Yankee:
It is brilliant, Nigel! I'd definitely like to perform it.

As I said above, I've done the first performance (last year). Feel free!

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 12 - 01:14 PM

Nice one, Nigel. Especially the chorus.

If I sang it I might be inclined to sing
"In colourful black and white"

instead of

"In monochrome (that's black & white)"

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 12:24 PM

MGoH:
Alternatives are acceptable. I take it you'd put two notes on '-ful'?

As I said, I consider it Public Domain, so the 'folk process' can come into play.

But ...
Anyone adding verses, please post them here!

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 11:19 PM

Thanks, Nigel. Will report back when I do... (won't be right away, though; all the folk clubs 'round here don't meet in August).

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 06:45 AM

Re 'Public Domain' ~~ Of course 'Trumpton', from which BBC Children's programme come the men whose names are used by Nigel, isn't in the public domain. But I don't imagine anyone is going to sue him over his adoption of 'Pugh, Pugh, Barney McGrew, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grubb'. Trumpton was, after all, a fire station, and these were firemen...

The Trumpton Fire Chief, IIRC, isn't given a name. perhaps he was McIntyre?

Oh, no ~~ checking back, he was called Captain Flack. Oh well -- it was just an idea.

~M~

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 12:01 PM

The Trumpton Fire Chief, IIRC, isn't given a name. perhaps he was McIntyre?

Oh, no ~~ checking back, he was called Captain Flack. Oh well -- it was just an idea.


It was on a quiz show recently (probably 'Pointless') to name the fire crew. Captain Flack was the lowest score. But one team got it wrong by naming 'Hugh'

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 09:17 PM

why not shout macentire,
perhaps it was a code to the others that there was a naked man presumably scottish who needed to be covered with a blanket because he was on fire and naked.
im sure its mac entire rather than macintyre , because it makes more sense.
so a naked scotsman who had caught fire, needed to be covered with a blanket.
true or false

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Sep 12 - 09:19 PM

obviously this naked scotsman who was on fire had not been gelded or circumsised, thus the reference to entire, or in full possesion of all his equipment

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 10:30 AM

You're definitely onto something, Schweik, but Mac was probably a dog, not a Scotsman. Don't they use the word 'entire' that way at dog shows?

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Bugsy
Date: 12 Sep 12 - 04:34 AM

I've always sung it using the words a la Harry Champion listed below

Someone 'said' to MacIntyre.

Seems to make more sense

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 07:31 PM

did anyone just think to ask Barry ?

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Sep 12 - 08:47 PM

barry..who..do u mean bary mc entire

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST,Add to confusion
Date: 20 Nov 15 - 11:28 AM

Just stumbled across this old thread looking for something entirely different (thanks Google).
Though I originally heard this as McIntyre, I have also heard it sung as "somebody shouted back inside, so we all got..." Possibly got corrupted to McIntyre???

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 15 - 05:10 PM

Check out the original recording, where he clearly sings,

"Don't let 'em in 'till its all mopped up,
Somebody said to McIntyre..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPxW62EkPvk
Song starts at 2:57

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Dec 15 - 05:34 PM

For the record ---

"When the Old Dun Cow Caught Fire is a music hall song written by Harry Wincott in 1893"

'Mainly Norfolk' website

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 15 - 05:44 PM

an example of a popsong being folk processed and possibly becoming traditional, people seem to enjoy shouting macintyre.
somebody said mcintyre is not going to stop people shouting out mcintyre or mac entire, thay have been shouting it out since at least 1965.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST,Thorne
Date: 14 Dec 15 - 06:24 PM

It was written by Harry Wincott, but I'm not sure if any of his lyrics survive -- love to see 'em if the have!

From a quick search it looks like Champion's lyrics and song recordings are the earliest, hard to say.
http://monologues.co.uk/musichall/Songs-W/When-Dun-Cow-Caught-Fire.htm

Wincott may have written the song for Champion to perform - http://www.harrywincott.co.uk/songs.htm

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: JHW
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 05:03 AM

'somebody said mcintyre is not going to stop people shouting out mcintyre...they have been shouting it out since at least 1965'
cf the shouting out of 'fine girl you are' or 'our souls' in the relevant songs.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 05:22 AM

Not so well known in some quarters. I've mainly heard it dahn sahf where everyone knows it and everyone shouts Macintyre. So when someone did sing it up here, I was the only eejit who shouted Macintyre....but the rest soon caught on, and by the end of the song, everyone was doing it! You can't stop the force of nature among folkies!

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST,Jim Ward
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 06:47 AM

The original lyrics as recorded by Harry Champion for the Columbia Graphophone Company in December 1911 clearly state "somebody said to MacIntyre" so MacIntyre was told by somebody not to "let 'em in".
Back in the early days of folk clubs, around 1960, HMV issued a compilation LP called "A Jug of Punch". One of the tracks on this LP was "When the Old Dun Cow Caught Fire" sung by Bob and Ron Copper (with banjo accompaniment!!). They had learned the song from Bob's father Jim Copper and somewhere along the line their chorus had become "somebody SHOUTED MacIntyre" As recordings of folk songs were pretty rare at this time every song on this LP was soon done to death in the folk clubs and the tradition of the audience shouting out MacIntire soon established.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 01:09 PM

How disgraceful, people enjoying themselves shouting out, and its all the fault. of the Coppers, the people processing Folk Music and they never asked permission, perhaps we should have a seance and contact Wincott and see what he thinks.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 03:15 PM

At least The Old Dun Cow is a comic song, so doesn't come to too much harm with a bit of (although imo insufferably irritating) flippancy, which might just perhaps have been a tiny bit amusing the first 900 times, but stretched as it has been to ∞...

Whereas I think that what has been done to Pleasant & Delightful, with all the finger-popping, looking in opposite directions, & other such fatuous histrionics to ruin a beautiful song ···

Yuk! The very thought of it makes me want to throw up -- & fantasise about finding out the original perpetrator and kicking him severely in the testicles. Did somebody say it was The Spinners? Even if they didn't originate it, they proliferated it; and should be bloody-well ashamed: a real blot on an otherwise deservedly admired and respected group.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 03:55 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWLMRiHhyQk The Spinners, they get blamed for everything, not guilty.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 04:09 PM

'Recorded off air from an edition of "My Kind of Folk", broadcast in 1968'

it sez below that video, Dick -- very early in Spinners' career. The finger-popping, eye-shading &c silliness, which I have myself seen them perpetrate, obviously came later. I fear your Not Guilty verdict somewhat premature.

Regards
≈M≈

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 04:11 PM

... and anyhow that was a radio broadcast. They wouldn't have done visual gags on the radio, would they?

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Dec 15 - 04:37 PM

why not,after all wot abaht the wireless ventriloquist
Peter Brough (26 February 1916 – 3 June 1999)[1] was an English radio ventriloquist who became a well-known name to audiences in the 1950s. He is associated with the puppet Archie Andrews.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 04:43 PM

I thought at the time Peter Brough & Archie Andrews -- based on US Charlie McCarthy Show I think -- a very odd thing to do on radio.    But at least there were two voices, even tho one knew it was just one man putting on two voices; and even if one couldn't see the puppet one could appreciate the humour of the dialogue. Not really quite the same thing as doing funny actions -- visual gags -- for laughs on the wireless, eh Dick?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Dec 15 - 06:59 PM

funny actions?I plead not guilty.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 06:07 AM

To what? We're talking about The Spinners -- not you just for once, Dick. Not like you to be so anally egocentric!

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 06:56 AM

Nurse, Nurse, he needs the medication, quick.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 08:32 AM

Back to your [appropriately named?] Black Cuntry with you, Mr Sanguinary-tinted!

〠

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 09:15 AM

Let's not lose sight of the fact that - pending sheet music from the 1890s, which may not be discoverable - the original question has been reasonably answered.

They presumably shout "MacIntire" because of the folk process (in this case, mishearing).

It has the advantage of making sense, which no other explanation seems to.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 09:15 AM

Let's not lose sight of the fact that - pending sheet music from the 1890s, which may not be discoverable - the original question has been reasonably answered.

They presumably shout "MacIntire" because of the folk process (in this case, mishearing).

It has the advantage of making sense, which no other explanation seems to.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 09:15 AM

Bring on "the sharks they played melodeons".
Not the only part of that song that gets messed about!

As for certain actions done during "Wild Mountain Thyme" in some quarters......a panting sheepdog, Lassie, And so on......

And the more recent song to have odd interjections introduced into it is Keith Marsden's "Funeral Song" - when it gets to the line about "they had to send for extra chairs", people start piling up all the chairs in the room, more each time the chorus comes around, until there is a very unsteady monument of them! How disrespectful! ;-)

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 12:09 PM

well it could be interpreted as rhyming slang mcintyre equals fire.

Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 04:16 PM

Nobody has shown that "MacIntire" meant "fire" to anybody until after the song was repopularized by the Coppers.

To say that "MacIntire" means "fire" seems to be rationalizing after the fact. Particularly since Wincott himself clearly needed another name or word to rhyme with "fire."