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Why shout 'MacIntire'? - Old Dun Cow

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OLD DUN COW


Related threads:
Lyr Add: The Old Dun Cow Caught Fire (H Champion) (14)
(origins) Origins: The Old Dun Cow (McIntyre!) (46)
Lyr/Chords Req: The Old Dun Cow (11)
Lyr Req: MacIntyre? / The Old Dun Cow Caught Fire (3)
Old Dun Cow- Looking for a recording of this (26)
Lyr Req: Old Dun Cow (34)
(origins) Origin: Old Dun Cow (32)
Lyr/Chords Req: The Old Dun Cow (7)
Chords Req: Old Dun Cow (5)
(origins) Lyr Add: When The Old Dun Cow Caught Fire (10)
Lyr Req: The Old Dung Cow? / Old Dun Cow (7)
Tune Req: Old Dun Cow (15)
Chords Req: Old Dun Cow (9)
Lyr/Chords Req: Burning of the Old Dun Cow (19)
Lyr Req: Old Dun Cow, other verses (7)
Recordings of 'Black & Tans' and 'Old Dun Cow' (21)


GUEST,Hollowfox at work 17 Dec 15 - 04:26 PM
The Sandman 17 Dec 15 - 04:54 PM
The Sandman 17 Dec 15 - 05:04 PM
GUEST 17 Dec 15 - 05:29 PM
Abby Sale 17 Dec 15 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,Grishka 17 Dec 15 - 07:03 PM
Mr Red 18 Dec 15 - 03:54 AM
leeneia 23 Aug 21 - 11:35 AM
The Sandman 23 Aug 21 - 12:20 PM
Richard Mellish 23 Aug 21 - 02:43 PM
leeneia 23 Aug 21 - 06:08 PM
Johnny J 23 Aug 21 - 06:32 PM
Tattie Bogle 24 Aug 21 - 06:31 PM
Vic Smith 26 Aug 21 - 02:14 PM
GUEST 28 Aug 21 - 06:22 AM
Bugsy 09 Feb 22 - 10:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST,Hollowfox at work
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 04:26 PM

Some years ago I heard (was it Tony Barrand and John Roberts?) sing "somebody shouted back inside..." This made excellent sense to me.


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 04:54 PM

"somebody shouted back inside..." was it the actress and the bishop


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 05:04 PM

"somebody shouted back inside..." was it the actress TO the bishop


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 05:29 PM

On the Harry Champion recording could the "when I was just like this" be a polite replacement for something else that rhymes with "miss" ?

Is the tune used now like that, or more like the Coppers' version?


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Abby Sale
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 06:00 PM

See John Orford & Jim Ward above. Both correct.

Wincott was a very popular music hall song writer and wrote many for the hugely popular singer, Harry Champion. Since it was recorded by Harry in 1911 we can presume Harry wrote it specifically for Harry and likely Harry'd been performing it for years.

I have the recording on a Champion CD. It it sung very much faster than we ever hear it today and is somewhat longer. It isn't hard to believe that some ancestor Copper (Bob's father?) actually heard Champion sing it and came away with what he remembered. Or else some other singer in the area did and so taught it to Copper, Folk Processing.

As above, it's originally "somebody said to M." in the words on Harry Champion; Cockney Bill of London Town; WindyRidge CD; 1911 & 2001. I like it.

AIR, it's "old stale beer" but changing it to the beer of the day or some brand the singer doesn't like seems reasonable.

I can't help but imagine that Wincott based it (loosely) on some local newspaper article of a pub fire (a tragedy anywhere, nearly as sad as Deportee).


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 17 Dec 15 - 07:03 PM

Here is a couple of snippets from "The Era", London, dating the song precisely, and also allowing a glimpse on the show business of that time, not any less tough than today:
Saturday, 30 September 1893
Advertisements & Notices
When the Old Dun Cow Caught Fire, Chorus by C. B. and H. Villiers, Verses by A. E. Ellis, Music by Geo. Le Brun, should be a good Song, shouldn't it? MR CHARLES BIGNELL is Singing the above Song Nightie at THE LONDON PAVILION and ROYAL, HOLBORN. Lawyers' Letters invited. Agents, Didcott and Co.

Saturday, 07 October 1893
WHEN THE OLD DUN COW CAUGHIT FIRE. TO THE EDITOR OF THE ERA. Sir,-Will you kindly allow me space respecting the above song? Mr Charles Bignell, in your last issue, extensively advertised same as being his property, which somewhat amuses me, considering I am the author and composer of same. I thought of the idea of The Pub on Fire on Aug. 29th, then I wrote the chorus, and took it up to Mr Bignell; but not feeling disposed (in a monetary view) to await his time bv taking two or three days to write the verses up, I went and sold the song to Mr Harry Champion the same night, and this gentleman sang the song at Greenwich on Sept. 7th. Trusting you will insert this in justice to Mr Champion, who holds my assignment, I am, faithfully yours,
HARRY WINCOTT. 19, Longville-road, Newington

Saturday, 21 October 1893
WHEN THE OLD DUN COW CAUGHT FIRE. TO THE EDITOR OF THE ERA. Sir,-I regret having to trouble you again, but Mr Ellis, by his letter in your last issue, seems to imagine that I was alluding to his integrity when giving my explanation of the above. This is not so, as I am perfectly aware that when Mr Bignell commissioned him to write the song up he was ignorant of the fact that he would be writing up verses to my idea and chorus; and, as far as going to say he can prove that Mr George Le Brunn composed the music to their work, this I don't dispute, because I know that Mr Le Brunn did do so. Mr Fred. Eplett has since written another melody, which makes No. 5 who have had a finger in the pie, but I don't wish to insinuate that either Messrs Le Brunn, Eplett, or Ellis would intentionally wrong me. As Mr Ellis knows, music hall song writers are not paid exorbitant prices for their wares, and when an author strikes upon something original, it is not pleasant to lose the advantages from it. I have witnesses both in and out of the profession to prove that I wrote this chorus, and submitted it to Mr Bignell, who took a great fancy to it. I didn't care to take two or three days to write the verses up, hence my selling same to Mr Champion. In conclusion I might add that I was told the idea of this song would be written up, but I did not think the words of my chorus would be included. Trusting I have now fully explained miself to all concerned, I am, Sir, yours faithfully
HARRY WINCOTT. 19, Longville-road, Newington
(Not a full explanation to my taste. Who exactly wrote the verses sung by Champion?)


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Dec 15 - 03:54 AM

(:-)


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: leeneia
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 11:35 AM

Mudcatter Gayle sang this at the singaround, and it occurred to me later that MacIntire is (or is purported to be) cockney rhyming slang for 'fire.'

I thought MacIntire was spelled with a capital E.


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 12:20 PM

Macintyre?


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 02:43 PM

> it occurred to me later that MacIntire is (or is purported to be) cockney rhyming slang for 'fire.'

Suggested and disproved earlier in this thread.


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: leeneia
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 06:08 PM

That's funny. When I brought this thread up, it had only two posts on it. Now it's longer.


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Johnny J
Date: 23 Aug 21 - 06:32 PM

Ach, an old pal "Ben" used to sing this all the time at Edinburgh Folk Club in the eighties.
I never realised the McIntyre meaning until now.
;-)


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 Aug 21 - 06:31 PM

Gosh, I'm surprised that this has generated quite so many posts, some of a learned, even academic nature, others purely facetious. Me, a simple soul, I have never questioned it, just bellowed "MacIntyre" at the right moment, along with anyone else in the room who has heard the song before!
A bit like shouting "free toast" in Rolling Home, after that line about "let the toasts go free".


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Aug 21 - 02:14 PM

As well as the more famous shout of MacIntyre, it some places it was obligatory to make another interjection - so that after the line: -
...Mopping up the whisky on the floor.

You would hear the words Slip, slop, slip.


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Aug 21 - 06:22 AM

Free Toast sure and Our Souls in another song...


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Subject: RE: Why shout 'MacIntire'?
From: Bugsy
Date: 09 Feb 22 - 10:27 PM

In Harry Champions 1911 rendition,
"Don't let 'em in 'til it's all mopped up
someone said to MacIntire"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPxW62EkPvk

Cheers

Bugsy


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