BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'

Subject: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:43 PM

I have an unusual subject in mind and would like comments and suggestions on it.

I volunteer at a local homeless shelter and am interviewing several dozen 'residents' in connection with the city's long term plans. In the process it has been suggested to me by several homeless that I should spend at least one night out in the open to see what it's like to sleep without formal shelter or security.

Keep in mind that this is Juneau, Alaska, a smallish town where summertime temperatures dip no lower than 50 degrees as a rule. There are many homeless, many of whom sleep in the shelter but others who either from desire (prefers fresh air and birdsong) or from need (didn't pass the breathalyzer test and had to leave the shelter) find themselves on their own for the night.

Many of those who spend the night outdoors make a climb up the hills behind town and sleep among the trees with the help of a tarp but some of them sleep in doorways or on park benches or wherever they can find.

Say that I'll do this- I have not agreed to any such thing - I would take my dog with me, my sleeping bag and an extra blanket if it is insufficient, a flashlight, a watch and toilet paper. In the interests of not attracting bears I would not take any food, but maybe a thermos of hot coffee.

I have a couple of advantages over some: Quite a few of the homeless people in town know me from my walking my dog the last couple of years. My dog collects a lot of pats from them. They keep an eye on us and if I'm absent a couple days they worry about us.

I would not have to 'camp' alone- there are people out there, both male and female, and that might be smarter.

Even smarter would be if I made a visit to the local police outpost to let them know what and why I'm doing. Don't know about that, though.

Any ideas? Other than that I must be insane?

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Alice
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 03:50 PM

I would do it in the backyard of your house or a friend's house rather than up on the hill.

Do you have a yard?

This will simulate the way they sleep out at night without camping tents, etc., so you can truthfully say you have experienced it.
You have to keep yourself safe, so I would not go up in the hills or to a park bench.


Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: GUEST,hg
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:10 PM

ditto what alice said...

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:17 PM

At least ditto... preferably, "no." You do your part already. No need to take any risks, in any way, shape or form.

Just don't. It isn't gonna help anything. It might mean YOU get a sore back, a cold... whatever. Don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:21 PM

That was also my thought - if outside is the only requirement, then sleep in your yard. If you want the risk of sleeping outside in a place where homeless sleep, then you'll add the "keeping one eye open" aspect to it that many of them must experience.

If I tried to sleep outside my dogs would be all over me and I'd probably end up covered with mosquito bites.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:28 PM

I've slept outside in the deep woods many times by myself (as young as 13) and never felt afraid. In all seasons, from -30C to +30c. But that is very different. There was never any threat from another human... BIG difference.

Oh, BTW, chronic bronchitis can happen at 50F if you don't know how to make a proper bed with tree boughs.

Don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:28 PM

The 'sleeping with one eye open' is a theme that frequently crops up. As one man said, being homeless means that fear is constant.

I don't have a backyard but I have a friend (a Mudcatter!) who does. That is a thought.

In the past I have camped out all over two mountain ranges in Oregon, by preference sleeping under the stars rather than a tent or camper, so that part wouldn't be as alien to me as it would to some.

gnu, catching a cold or a sore back would not be among my worries.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:35 PM

"gnu, catching a cold or a sore back would not be among my worries."

So, do you know which trees to get the boughs from and how to arrange them so you don't end up sick? Do you know which fern patches will keep you safe from sand fleas and ticks and skeeters? Sorry if that sounds condescending, but it's just that I am concerned.

Oh, one more thing. I never spent a night in the bush without a loaded gun.

I just don't know why this is a requirement. It just seems foolhardy to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:38 PM

I see a clear distinction between choosing to sleep out of doors in an urban, or at least, well-populated area, and camping. Even camping in a campground with other people around. I've backpacked a lot, and spent quite a few nights out on my own. Different, entirely, than sleeping out under the freeway bridge or on the rough area behind the homeless shelter down at Lancaster Ave in Fort Worth.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:40 PM

I don't think this is just about where you sleep, and it can't be a backyard camp-out. Those folks don't know if they'll be safe, they don't know where there meals are going to come from or how they'll wash or any number of other things I don't have a clue about. It's not just about the sleeping situation. I also think you may find something good out there, because it seems like you have friends.

I would, however, just let the cops know you're going to do this and see if THEY have any tips.

On the other hand, how will this experience help you? At the end of the day, you know you have a home to return to, and that may be one of the hardest things about being homeless: no safety net. No temporary "field trips" will let you feel that, but perhaps the people you work with would respect that you made the effort, regardless.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:50 PM

…………. to see what it's like to sleep without formal shelter or security.

………… I would take my dog with me, my sleeping bag and an extra blanket if it is insufficient, a flashlight, a watch and toilet paper. In the interests of not attracting bears I would not take any food, but maybe a thermos of hot coffee.
…………………………
…………………………
I would not have to 'camp' alone ………

Even smarter would be if I made a visit to the local police outpost to let them know what and why I'm doing. …………



With that much preparation, will you really be experiencing what it is to be homeless? I don't suggest that you put yourself as risk, but surely the lack of security is a central consideration. Whether you have a good night's sleep or the worst night's sleep in your life, I suggest that you will be doing it safe in the knowledge that you'll be snug back in your bed the following night. What you won't experience is the desperation that this could be as good as it gets.

As the suggestion has come from homeless people themselves, it might give you some street-cred in interacting with them in the future but there may be others who see your gesture as little more than tokenism.


DC

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 04:59 PM

I agree with Doug. I don't see that it's necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Old Vermin
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:13 PM

Don't think I've slept out under the stars since 1972 or so. Company was good to have. Bears being about sounds a really bad idea.

Started camping the last seven years.But no bears here.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 05:23 PM

Mmm, personally I think it's a good idea - you get close to people living with them. But I'd do it for a few nights rather than just one, and if a bit anxious try to get a male friend to join you.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 06:08 PM

Gnu, on rare occasions in the past I have gathered boughs to sleep on but rarely bothered. In those days of course, I was able to sleep on a plank if need be. My muscles and bones are a lot wimpier these days.

Keep in mind, however, that nights in Juneau at this time of year are very short- it doesn't get full dark until midnight and along about 2:30 it's getting light again.

No gun, though, thank you. No ticks or sand fleas either. Skeeters in Alaska can be a nuisance depending on the cycle they're in. Incidentally, I don't think of it as a requirement in any sense. They just think it would be a good thing if I knew for one night how they feel every night.

SRS, that is a real factor in the venture if I decide to do it. I am not at all sure that it will give me any actual understanding that I don't already have. However, one huge difference is the dissimilarities between Juneau and Fort Worth. The homeless shelter here can bed 39 people- 8 women and 30 men, with one 'fever' room that is rarely used. Contrast that with a major city. In addition, the folks here seem to have been all over the country in shelters of all sorts, and they say that Juneau is different in more than just size. A great many of Juneau's homeless are here for the duration – the people you see there today will probably still be there next year. Shelters, down south, they say, are far more transient.

Jeri, thank you. Just as what Stilly says, I don't know how much I would learn from this or what they would perceive me as having learned. I would prefer, I think, not to tell them until later. And you're right about the backyard- enjoyable and totally different.

Doug C and Sorcha, my guess is that I would experience a tremor or two at strange noises. I did lug a tent to the top of one mountain (we have two of them downtown and we all live at their feet) one July 4th and slept up there. There were 20 or so tents not far away and what disturbed my sleep was the knowledge that I had no idea what the food cache situation was in those other tents. I didn't like the idea of bears parading past my tent.

As far as 'street cred' is concerned I doubt that's relevant. These are adults and they are well aware that you should sleep at home if you have one. At the same time I doubt they would think of it as tokenism; most likely they would recount the tale amongst each other with emotions ranging from disbelief to risibility. :)

Old Vermin, I love camping itself. I've done a great deal of it in Oregon and southern Washington state. There are black bear about but down there I never worried about them. Up here in Alaska they live in much closer proximity to us.

Crow Sister, I have no male friends who would see the sense of it. :) And I thought of a few nights rather than just one but other than getting grubby and grumpy I doubt that there would be much difference.

By the way, I know at least two homeless men who have a dog with them. I think having something to love or care about is important to them.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Melissa
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 06:56 PM

Ebbie,
If I was planning this for myself, I'd go for a week. I'd find out how much money the folks have in a week and live strictly on that, and I'd make myself learn to clean up and go to work using the facilities available to the true homeless people..and tote my 'homeless stuff' to work instead of stashing it somewhere that isn't available to others.
A week is long enough to learn stuff that would be missed in an overnight outing. Surely there's more to it than sleeping.


With an overnight, I think it would be hard to keep from leaving some with the impression that you were like The Rich Man Who Ate Beans.
The fuller stories won't come out with an overnight. You obviously already see your folks as People. If they're inviting you to join them, there's obviously an idea that you're Something Special..but if you're the person they count on for help, you're not necessarily a Person in all eyes.
An overnight will probably break your heart. A longer stay would help put it back together and let you see more clearly.


In my last job, my supervisor pulled out a few loose papers to tell me about another project I needed to keep in mind. It was a half-assed program that was designed to 'help' migrant workers in our area. I didn't even know we HAD migrants so I asked several questions. She didn't know anything about it and I was disgusted. Before I was hired, she had been covering my position for a couple years. The program had been directly in her hands through that time and had been under her since it began. That job was with an organization that should keep their ducks adequately lined on their projects.
That doesn't have anything to do with this thread, but it sets a clear comparison in my mind. Just by considering the idea of giving homelessness a whirl, you shine a lovely light.

When people are willing to put effort into trying to understand the lives of others, it makes the world a little bit prettier.

I admire your willingness to consider something like this and hope you bring back some wisdom (or random observations) to share with us!

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:15 PM

I wouldn't. And I'm 6'2" and know how to "take care of myself." At a minimum I think you'll return without your watch, flashlight, thermos, and sleeping gear. Not all of the homeless are baddies, not by a very long shot, but there are those who prey on them, take what little they have, beat them, set them on fire.... And I happen to know that you ain't no spring chicken.

Ebbie, folks are trying to get into the shelters for a reason: learn from that. You don't need to stick your hand into the fire to understand you can be burned.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 07:24 PM

Sorry, Ebbie, but what Rap said eloquently is what I have tried to say. Why allow the channce for anything to go wrong if it is not required?

If you do it, may the raven be with you.

I'll shut up now.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 08:31 PM

Hey, gnu, please don't shut up.

Rap, if I were a big, strong man there is no way I would do it. Different vibes, you know. As far as robbing and other violence are concerned, in Juneau there is less chance of that than just about anywhere.

I have a musician friend in Corrections - put in his 20 years as a warden in the local prison, retired, and after three weeks of retirement went back to work as director of the Halfway House.

I asked him why homeless people would choose Juneau to live in when it is so much warmer almost anywhere else. He said, Because they feel safer here. Down south, he said, you could get yourself killed for the sake of a good pair of boots. Maybe because it is hard to get out of Juneau with only water and air transport available it just isn't going to happen here.

Melissa, you have some great ideas there. There is one error: All of these people can come into the shelter for their three meals a day, as well as snacks almost all day long, whether or not they sleep there. They can also take showers, do their laundry, get bus tokens, make phone calls, read books and magazines, play games, do their own art projects (there are some who do), chat and bond. It is open to everybody from 7:00 am to 9:30 pm. People who sleep there have to go upstairs at 9:30 and leave the bedrooms at *:00 am. The local shelter is doing an excellent job, according to most reports I'm getting.

The city of Juneau is compiling a Directory of Non-Profit Services and this shelter will have a section in it. My job (volunteer) is to interview 20 or 30 people who use any of their services, find out their opinion of the available services and what else they think the city should be doing.

It is an interesting project. I have already interviewed 19 men and two women. I record our conversations but only the parts pertinent to the facilities are entered into my computer and will be in the directory.

But I think you are right- if I make my plans to run for a week- yikes, the prospect makes me shiver. But if I do that, there is no way I could feel it was tokenism. And I could do it- my part time job ended a couple of weeks ago - so I have the time available.

However I don't have to decide yet- I need to complete the current project, plus I have two housesitting commitments to fulfill in this next month.

But this afternoon when I was out walking my dog, I found myself looking at potential hideyholes...

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 09:13 PM

Ebbie,
Homeless is not sleeping outdoors with your dog, toilet paper and warm blankets. You don't need to sleep outdoors to know how frightening and helpless the homeless are.
I know more than I am sayting.
Stay inside and do what you can to help.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: olddude
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 09:23 PM

Ebbie
Honey, NO ... that final ok

love Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: olddude
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 09:26 PM

Ebbie
ok, how about if I do it for you .. alright, I cannot get hurt, I taught survival classes. I could go out in the woods below zero with nothing and come back fat and happy ... I will do it for you ... alright .. then you are not at risk ... I cannot get hurt or sick, you can hon ... so let me do it for you

love Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 09:35 PM

How is the cellphone connection, if any, where you're planning to sleep? A cellphone could be a useful emergency communication device if it can function.

The other question is how general will be peoples's awareness that you are planning to do this? If "everyone" knows it might attract a predator, but "your friends" may also function as a protective shield. If "no one" knows, you might be the victim of a more random attack, or not.

It sounds to me like a good way to learn more about how it feels to be "homeless" but it's also useful as someone who is not "homeless" to think it through, which I believe you're doing a good job of.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 09:49 PM

If everyone knows, you will not have problems because the press will be there and so will the cops. If you tell only your friends, one of them might be overheard by the wrong people mentioning it. If you tell no one you run the risk of a random attack.

If you want to know what it's like I can recommend some very vivid books. Just as you don't have to go sleep in cold mud while people randomly shoot in your direction to understand the trenches of WWI, neither do you have to "be" homeless to understand it.

Don't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:31 PM

Well, bless y'alls pea pickin' hearts. I didn't mean to create a hornet's nest to poke at.

I haven't yet decided whether to do it - and in any case I couldn't do it before close to the end of July since I have made commitments.

There is no way I'll jump into it without trying to think it through. For one thing, the prospect frightens me, so I will be careful. As Rap said, I'm no spring chicken- this fall I will be 75 years old - and I didn't get to this age just free falling. I've made some bad decisions in my life but I've also made some very good ones, and I trust the decision I will make in this connection.

As for telling people- hmmmmm. I'm not good among friends at keeping my mouth shut so the odds are good that I will tell them. (Not only that but if a certain Mudcatter reads this thread, there go my secretive ways!)

It is not a case of feeling that it is essential that I do this- but I do like new things and I do like challenges. Not only that but there are at least two - maybe more - homeless men who would, I have no doubt

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:32 PM

Darn. My finger tripped.

As I was saying, there are at least two men who would respond, I believe, if I told them I need a protector. However, that would negate the premise of the experience. So I dunno.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Melissa
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 10:46 PM

Eb,
Your biggest mitzvah would probably be to LET those guys be protectors and allow several homeless folks to help you plan/prepare. You'd benefit from their insights and have a much easier time of it starting off as a pet than if you try to swim uphill and carve your own path.

Giving invisible people a chance to be useful in a way that really IS useful is a very kind thing. That's where the Good Deed is.

**
Your shelter system sounds so much better than the arrangements I've heard from my friends who have used services in their area.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jun 10 - 11:19 PM

That's what I too am told, Melissa. This is the only shelter I've been involved with but there's a lot of hope in the place as well as frustration and anger.

It isn't perfect, by any means- there are several common themes among the people I have interviewed. Among them: they need Job Service to come there once or twice a week with a list of job openings, as well as a list of people there who are willing and able to work; they desperately need transitional housing; and little thing - one woman told me that in another shelter she's been in your bed number denotes what chore you will be responsible for- things like taking all the bath towels to the laundry or mopping the main room floor or emptying the waste baskets or whatever. Here, the trustee(?) has to call out the chores he needs filled.

When I start compiling the responses all of this and more will be written down for print.

I don't use a cell phone, although the reception is good. It has shocked me how many of the homeless people have cell phones.

Interesting idea to let the homeless set me on the path- not a bad idea at all. But if I do that, they will be justified in thinking that I cheated a bit, and so what was the purpose?

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Melissa
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 12:06 AM

I'm not sure being prepared counts as cheating. They already know you're not homeless and the ones you talk to about it will know that you're trying to get a little more depth to your understanding/knowledge.
If you were working to broaden your horizon by trying the aspects of my life that keep me limited and dehumanized, I would respect you a lot more if you put effort into trying to Do it instead of jumping in cluelessly.

I'm surprised they can run smoothly without some sort of structure to the Chore System. Maybe I overestimate the importance of consistency, routine, expectations and responsibility..
How do most of the people at your shelter end up homeless, Ebbie? I know it's unladylike to show curiosity/interest in things like that, but I'm ok with unladylikeness sometimes.

How does the Job Service thing work?
Do the bus passes work for going to the Job Center?

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 01:01 AM

I think it's a great idea, Ebbie. If you sleep near some homeless people you have some acquaintance with, they'll watch out for you - and they'll love you forever for doing it. It isn't unusual of a person "outside" to have a dog, toilet paper and warm blankets - but your dog may have trouble getting along with other people's dogs.

I haven't slept out with homeless people, but I've worked with them quite a bit over the last ten years. If I have the chance, I sit down and eat with them, and they appreciate that.

Go for it - and then tell us what you experienced.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 01:21 AM

Good questions, Melissa.

I have - so far - never asked the direct question: How did you become homeless? Partly because it is evident that a good many of them like to project the impression that they chose the lifestyle and enjoy it. Not that I don't believe but that some do. One man told me that some people consider him homeless but he doesn't - he likes, he said, to hear the birds sing and the trees and bushes rustle from his camp. Another man told me that he's been 'on the road' for 29 years. He said the longest he's ever stayed at one place since he's been grown was 3 or 4 months.

Several have told me that they took off when their marriages died. Those who have children seem very proud of them and like the touch of visiting them reminds them of home and often they have me read a letter aloud that their 'child' sent them, . Several of them have told me that after they got out of prison they started hitching.    One man told me that on the Alaska State Ferry if you pay just to the first stop you can ride as far as they go - nobody checks you.

Made me realize that I don't think I have ever had my ticket checked on the ferry - but I don't think I'll try that!

One of the common themes I have found among them is that they tend to be unabashedly, serenely religious.

It is an interesting bunch of people. Interestingly, too, I found out on Facebook the other day that my granddaughter who is in her second year at university wants to go into social work so that her specialty can be helping homeless women. Isn't that interesting? She knows nothing of my involvement with the homeless.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: KT
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 01:33 AM

Okay, this Mudcatter did read this, just now. Seems to me that the suggestions that you sleep outside are to give you a better understanding. Might, but as others have said, your knowledge that this is temporary is a whole different ball game. The idea, I suppose, along with knowledge, is also to gain compassion. I already know you to be a compassionate soul. Your interviewing project is certainly helping you to grow in compassion as you grow in knowledge of their plight. Utilize both to continue the good work that you do, without endangering your health. (It was 45 degrees, today, by the way). If you're determined, and thinking that a soft patch of grass would serve the same purpose, you know where to find one. I'll leave the light on for ya!

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 02:31 AM

Aw, KT, I thought you'd go "outside" with her.

Of the homeless people I've talked to, I'd say many of them are homeless because of at least some degree of mental illness. They may have lived a more-or-less "normal" life "inside" for many years, but oftentimes their existence was pretty marginal, right on the brink of losing home and job and family. Then something happened that collapsed their delicate network of support, and they could no longer cope. Many function quite well, but I'm not sure I'd want to hire many of them. There are a few that are just temporarily out on their luck and temporarily homeless, but most of the long-term homeless people have deeper issues.

I really admire our Loaves and Fishes homeless dining room in Sacramento - it seems like almost half their staff members are homeless people. And the pride of employment makes a quick change in people. Loaves and Fishes has a militant, "in your face" attitude (that I sometimes disagree with), and they've been working for a year on their "safe ground" project, finding an open field every night for people who were evicted from a tent city in Sacramento. My friend Sister Libby Fernandez is director of Loaves and Fishes. She's the speaker on the first part of this video, describing how she slept outside with homeless people as part of the Safe Ground protest. I have to say that Libby is tough as nails, and she does a lot of things I wouldn't do.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: olddude
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 09:16 AM

Ebbie
don't you do that dear friend, I don't care what precautions you take, like Rap said you don't need to go under fire with the Marines to know that war isn't fun.

I will do it for you, I will even go to another town where people don't know me and post everything that happened to give you the feel for what it is like ... how about that ... you will scare the crap out of all of us and that isn't good ya know .. many of our catters have bad hearts so ... go with plan B

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 09:37 AM

In the process it has been suggested to me by several homeless that I should spend at least one night out in the open to see what it's like to sleep without formal shelter or security.

This is a clear invitation to share an experience in order to understand it.

I would submit that you have an opportunity to get that experience in a small way not by making it cushier, but by making it SHORTER. Pick a spot that feels like a challenge and sit there for a pre-dtermined period of time. Welcome the various feelings that come, and journal them. That journal will stand you in good stead in your future conversations with homeless people and with people who are in a position to help.

The first thing their suggestion tells you is that you will probably not sleep "the first night," but that in succeeding nights you would find that you actually can, do, and MUST sleep. Part of their idea is that you see that it can be done, but what mental gyrations and exhaustion must come first.

If the idea of being alone for an hour or three makes you nervous, take along a journalist. That person can make some "security" arrangements to watch you both without YOU knowing it, so you will BE safe whole not FEELING safe.

Be creative. That is the heart of living in poverty-- resourcefulness.

And your own security-- a well-charged cell phone held in your lap, ready to use, in an area you know has good cell service.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 09:39 AM

I have a loose anal sphincter. Go with Plan B or clean my pants.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 02:23 PM

lol, Rap. I got your back.ewwwwww

I am regretting having started this thread. For some reason I expected a more academic, detached response. Kind of silly expectation, I guess, since my own response to the prospect is quite visceral.

I do appreciate your comments and suggestions- more than I can say. This is a remarkable group of people, but then we already knew that about Mudcatters.

I don't know yet what I will end up doing; I'll just let the idea simmer and cool until it gels, OK?

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Melissa
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 02:30 PM

Maybe you could sleep at home and spend some full days 'living homeless'? That would save you a load of laundry..

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 02:40 PM

Ebbie, they are the homeless, you are their security. That's the job you do, and it sounds as if you do it well. There is absolutely no need to swap places with them, you already empathise, that's why you're there..

You are needed where you are. If anything awful should happen to you, then they will be left without you.

Do the job you do, and don't be made to feel guilty about never having been homeless. I'm surprised/amazed that anyone's suggested you do this, to be honest.

As many have said earlier, you cannot live their lives in the way it's happened to them. An entire life has led them to the place where they are...just as your life has led you to care deeply about the homeless and want to help.

You are an angel, already, no need to risk becoming a real life one, due to e Bear with an insatiable desire for Thermosed Coffee! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Tig
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 02:42 PM

Possibly a silly thought Ebbie but have you asked those People who have told you to try sleeping 'rough' with them for a night what exactly they would expect you to gain from it?

You could well find that their answers to that will help give far reaching ideas/answers to some of the problems you are trying to deal with. At that time you could also ask some of the things that were bothering you about the idea.

Good luck whatever you decide. The ability to do such things depends on the mental outlook of the person involved - and I think I would wimp this one!

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 02:43 PM

Ebbie, try thinking homeless.

Ask yourself questions like these and imagine that you MUST have answers:

Where can I sleep tonight? Is it out of the weather? Would I be safe? Could I cook a meal, or would I have to eat it cold? If I have to run, what can I abandon? How can I stay dry if it rains? Where can I get food? Where can I go during the day where I'd be safe and dry? What should I do if I get sick? What can I do if I fall and break a hip or a leg? Does my family know where I am, and do they care? How can I get some money? Can I get a different coat before cold weather sets in? What would happen if I died? Is that person a threat?

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: LadyJean
Date: 14 Jun 10 - 11:15 PM

I sleep with a can of pepper spray within easy reach. I have done so since my last year in my old apartment, when I was dealing with a crazy neighbor. Pepper spray is small, easily concealed, good at chasing creepa (and bears) away, without doing them serious harm. If you're going to try this, get yourself a can, and keep it handy.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Tangledwood
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 05:27 AM

Lizzie has it right I reckon. Should medical professionals have suffered injuries or sickness the same as their patients before being able to give "proper" treatment? Or perhaps closer to the subject; psychiatrists have been afflicted with mental illness before conducting councilling sessions?

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 01:01 PM

Or better yet, don't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: olddude
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 03:22 PM

Rap asked the right questions, Now here are some answers, do I have the training and real time experience .. YUP.. can I get something to eat any time even if it is plants and bugs ... yup ... can I make my own shelter regardless of conditions .. yup .. can I make a fire out of anything or use scrap steel to forge a knife and other tools I need .. yup ... If I were attacked can I handle it .. yup very quickly actually .
so let me do it for you before you do something dumb and get hurt ..geeze louise

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 03:31 PM

Dan... don't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:06 PM

I've slept rough a few times. The thing about it is that's it's a surprisingly complicated process. A big element of that is fear and the presence of danger. That's immediate fear and danger from people and the long term fear of not having the money for food and what have you. And the general uncertainty of that sort of life. (I would add the caveat that, as a busker my times sleeping rough tended to be only for a few days or a week at most and I was better equipped to deal with the weather etc... than most long term homeless people.)

Bottom line, the more genuine your experience, the more dangerous. If you do it, I would go along with people you've known for a long time. You'll be that bit safer and you'll see how they live. Plenty of homeless are willing to give a hand to newbies. (The problem is that you haven't known them long enough to trust them generally. Easier if you haven't got anything worth stealing and you can handle yourself in a fight though.)

If you're going to do it, I would make sure it's fairly warm. It's really horrible sleeping out in the snow and particularly risky if you're not well equipped/haven't eaten in a day etc...)

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: GUEST,Bardan
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:19 PM

If you decide to go it alone bear in mind that the more secluded and out of town you are the less likely you are to get attacked by someone but the less likely you are to get help if you actually are. (Bit of a lose-lose situation isn't it?)
Honestly though, I've only ever done it when that was the only choice; you will be taking risks if you do it.
oh! And carry your stuff around for the day first while not spending anything more than the bare minimum; being underfed and bored and scared at the same time while lugging around clothes and a sleeping bag is all part of the experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: gnu
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 08:24 PM

Tread drift... I slept in a tent next to a beaver dam (many times) one night and buddy beaver was not pleased. I woke at midnight to the sound of a poplar being drug violently against the tent.

I went back to sleep. I woke an hour later when the tent was down on top of me as buddy had chewed the tethers.

I slept in the truck, uncomfortably. In the morn, I learned some forest creatures are in a union as a moose had stomped on my tent and shit a pile on it.

But, I caught a mess of trout at dawn and came home with a good story.

We now return to regular programming. Sorry for the thread drift.

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: olddude
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 09:53 PM

gnu

   lol, priceless

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 09:57 PM

Ebbie, I haven't said anything, but have been reading along with interest. I think I remember you said you'd take your dog with you. I have great concern for you and even greater for your dog. What would you do if something happened to him? Someone tries to steal him or cuts him loose while you sleep or a bigger dog attacks him? I don't know if any of those is likely, but I'd sure want to know before taking my old pup out for the night.

After reading everything, I'd say I agree with those who are saying you do not need to "walk a mile in their shoes" in order to continue with your compassion and aid to the homeless. I think I understand your consideration of doing this, but hope you do not do so.

This spring, my son came close to being homeless; he was a step away but for us finally relenting and letting him stay in our backyard for awhile. He is fine, now, but there were life choices he'd made that put him in that situation. I'd hate to see anyone take than on for any reason other than the most dire circumstances and even then I'd hope they could find some help such as your shelter provides with you there to greet them.

With love and admiration,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Sleeping 'Homeless'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 03:57 AM

Queensland is having its regular 'Sleeping Rough' event - where the rich and obscure CEOs 'do it rough' in white shirt and tie, by the look of the TV footage, for one night to raise funds and awareness - perhaps you might be able to get such an event going to raise awareness locally?