BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 02:59 PM

Yes, oh all-powerful and omniscient one. Do tell us more.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 01:01 PM

Nothing like the joys of recreational outrage, eh, Greg? And adding religion or politics to the mix makes it even better! ;-) More opportunities to spit bile, hurl personal insults at people who don't agree with your every point, and inject your delicious little dose of pyschotic resentment into the rest of the world. Yessir, it's not easy to resist, is it? Check back through the many Bush threads and read your own postings. You'll get an adrenalin rush that will carry you through the rest of the day.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 12:43 PM

There are about 40 or 50 more "hate Bush" threads I could refresh

Oh, please do! All of them! That'll be about as pertinent and enlightening as raising this one from the dead.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 01:13 AM

Quite true, Little Hawk...but in this case, The 'Hate Obama' thread was opened by none other but an Obama supporter!!....and if you read the posts so far, the 'opposition, (if you can call it that) is NOT saying they 'hate' Obama!!..and have voiced an opinion very close to your own.....could it be true, that they still don't have a clue...?
I'm afraid so!....They haven't quite got over the FACT that the Vietnam peace movement, and Civil Rights Movement was co-opted by the Democratic Party, and they think that they all identify with each other!!

Now if only they could put that alluring charisma into their music.....


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 12:46 AM

Refresh! ;-)

Remember when Bush "hate" threads were daily entertainment on Mudcat Cafe? For a whole 8 years!!!! It was sooooo enjoyable for almost all of us...except a handful of Republicans and conservatives who got really upset about it...just like some other people now get really upset about threads criticizing Obama.

Get used to it! Whoever is president at any given time, he is going to get one hell of a lot of criticism for managing the world's most aggressive military empire and the developed world's most irresponsible health care system, etc...

It was Bush then, and certain people here enjoyed tearing him apart every day. Now it's Obama, and those same people are freaking out because the tables have turned and someone is tearing apart their guy every day.

Funny! ;-) Cos I have about the same low opinion of both Bush and Obama. They both got their chance to run the same criminal empire for 8 years, kill a lot of people in distant lands, and play ball with the same criminal banks and corporations. But Obama's there NOW instead of Bush. And THAT's why he's getting the heat now.

There are about 40 or 50 more "hate Bush" threads I could refresh to make the same point: you haters can dish it out when it goes your way...but it seems you just can't take it when it comes back the other way. "Hate" is apparently only okay when it's hate you can agree with.

Bush and Obama are just 2 temporary false faces stuck on the big military-industrial-banking machine that owns both of them. As long as that machine can keep half of you (the American people) hating the other half (by way of the 2-party system) they've got you right where they want you. They smack you with a Republican Right for 4 to 8 years, then wallop you with a Democratic Left for 4 to 8 years, and count you out when the election bell rings the end of each round. Another knockout for the great financial oligarchy, and the CEOs pass around the champagne.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 09:25 AM

a bunch of folks who live by a ridiculous points of view, and have no respect for a POV that differs from their own, even if uou provide evidence that proves them wrong.

Their problem is they live by a code that says, to hell with truth, "truth" is what WE decide it is.

Douggie would almost be entertaining if he wasn't so pathetic & delusional. A better definition of the BuShite, TeaBagger, Faux News, "Keep Your Government Hands Off My Medicare" crowd would be difficult to find.

He "respects" old T-Bird because they enjoy swimming in the same river of shit. They share the same deep psychosis: a regular cross-Atlantic folie a deux.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 09:13 AM

The USA is at war with no-one

You're not serious, right? You can't actually brlieve the preposterous bullshit you come up with?

The number of dead along the border with Mexico

I wasn't referring to the recent Mexico business. You obviously know bugger-all about the history & operation of the War On Drugs in the U.S. Study up.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:23 AM

""1. The USA is at war with no-one - Fact accept that and move on. For the USA to be at War it requires the approval of Congress no such approvals or Acts of Congress have been passed since the Second World War.""

KOREA? VIETNAM?

Two massive conflicts with opposing armies, in uniform, knocking seven barrels of shit out of each other don't constitute wars in your obviously fuddled mind?

If it waddles like a duck, and it quacks like a duck..........

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:15 AM

""Bullshit, like hell they were. Perhaps you could come up with some instances of Gestapo members being hung specifically for "waterboarding" prisoners, or supposedly mistreating and showing disrespect for a book. But I somehow doubt it. Your statement quoted above is more emotive crap without substance.""

Since the Gestapo, the Nazi secret police, dealt only with spies, enemy agents, and resistance members, all of whom were either in civilian dress, or actual civilians, perhaps you would like to tell me why you think they were hanged.

And where the fuck did I mention a book, or disrespect for a book?

One final question T. Where do YOU draw the line between interrogation and torture?

Sane people normally accept that partial drowning to the point of unconsciousness is a step beyond acceptable interrogation.

Don T.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 04:56 AM

Actually, I think Dumbya prefers to have others read (and probably write) for him, to avoid taxing his pea-brain.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 04:43 AM

Wonder if Blair and Bush got together to compare notes on each others memoirs or proof read them first?

However people feel about it most people will see them for what they are but I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Stu
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 04:40 AM

The US has executed Japanese prisoners of war for waterboading:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-begala/yes-inational-reviewi-we_b_191153.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboarding - check out the refs for extensive discussion on the subject.

If you agree with our troops and intelligence services torturing people, then you can't really condemn any torture past or present (including that of our own service people and civilians), to do so would be rank hypocrisy. At least have the guts to stand up and say you agree with torture, don't agree with the Declaration of Human Rights and the Geneva Convention and that's that. Be manly about it for crying out loud, don't try to hide behind semantics and mealy-mouthed but essentially worthless definitions.

"It's amazing to me that the drubbing liberals took in the recent election does mean anything to them"

Shock news! Not everyone lives in the United States! Time to expand from a rather parochial viewpoint and see the actions of your government in a wider context. Perhaps take on board the views of those living in the rest of the world also have some legitimacy.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: DougR
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 01:00 AM

Know why I admire you, Teribus? Because you are willing to continue to confront a bunch of folks who live by a ridiculous points of view, and have no respect for a POV that differs from their own, even if uou provide evidence that proves them wrong.

Their problem is they live by a code that says, to hell with truth, "truth" is what WE decide it is.

It's amazing to me that the drubbing liberals took in the recent election does mean anything to them. And they are supposed to be the "smart" ones?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:07 AM

"comparing either of them with what's going on in Afghanistan and Iraq is really quite idiotic"

The "War on Drugs" GregF compared to Afghanistan and Iraq?

1. The USA is at war with no-one - Fact accept that and move on. For the USA to be at War it requires the approval of Congress no such approvals or Acts of Congress have been passed since the Second World War.

2. The number of dead along the border with Mexico alone in the "War on Drugs" makes Afghanistan look like a picnic. Not really too much coverage of it this side of the pond because it appears to be drug gangs wiping out their competition, i.e. other drug gangs.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 11:58 PM

"Members of the Gestapo were hanged for doing to captured civilian agents exactly what Bush condoned in Guantanamo."

Bullshit, like hell they were. Perhaps you could come up with some instances of Gestapo members being hung specifically for "waterboarding" prisoners, or supposedly mistreating and showing disrespect for a book. But I somehow doubt it. Your statement quoted above is more emotive crap without substance.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:46 PM

The US has been deluged in a War on Poverty and a "War of Drugs" doesn't mean for one minute that the country is actually at war...

The U.S. surrendered unconditionally in the "War on Poverty" with the election of Ron Reagan.

As for the "War on Drugs", I think the thousands who have been shot & killed might take exception to your statement, Teezer.

That said, comparing either of them with what's going on in Afghanistan and Iraq is really quite idiotic of you, if not unexpected.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:12 PM

"" No Don the absence of uniform and the other details specifically mentioned means that the person captured cannot be classified as a Prisoner of War and that as such the rules relating to treatment of POW's cannot apply.""

Weasel words T. A mealy mouthed attempt to justify a crime against humanity by blaming the victims for the misdeeds of their captors.

Torture is torture no matter who or what the victim may be.

Incarceration of non POWs such as spies and terrarists may well be justified. So to may interrogation, but what you advocate, and what Geedub and his minions ordered, sanctioned, or carried out cannot and should not ever be justified.

Members of the Gestapo were hanged for doing to captured civilian agents exactly what Bush condoned in Guantanamo.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Amos
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:38 PM

It's not easy to win a heart or a mind when your thinking is being done by a Dick.



A

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:24 PM

Thread Title: GW Bush IS a war criminal!

Prove it?

Because he sanctioned waterboarding of a captured terrorist who could just as well might have been shot out of hand in accordance with the Geneva Convention that you say GWB violated

Good luck with that boys, but of course you do realise that unlike the "Impeachment" thing this time you do actually have to prove that:

A. A law was broken

B. That hard evidence exists that those you wish to bring before the courts were actually physically involved.

If A is achieved the charge would be assault.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:18 PM

The US has been deluged in a War on Poverty and a War of Drugs doesn't mean for one minute that the country is actually at war which it has not been since the end of the Second World War - Fact live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 02:15 PM

Start with Mad Dog Wolfowitz and Shotgun Cheney- Dumbya was only doing what they told him to do, like a good little boy.

Of course, that doesn't really make him any less culpable, except to the ignorant & delusional.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 01:47 PM

Bush is not only culpable for endorsing waterboarding, he is responsible for destroying Iraq culturally and physically , and killing tens of thousands of civilians. The latter may be more reprehensible than the former although the pattern is consistent. Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Condoleza Rice and Colin Powell should also be held accountable.

Prison sentences for all of them would be justified.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:39 AM

I'll settle for torture being a crime against humanity.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Amos
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:24 AM

You are dodging the point, sea-lawyer. For the purposes of PR the United States has been deluged with the "War" on terror and the "War" in Iraq and the "war" in Afghanistan. Military operations other than war don't count?

That is specious, and self-serving, Mister T. We act, talk, operate and spend on a war footing, and you defend torture because "it isn't REALLY war...". What drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 10:00 AM

Ineffective Don?? On a number of occasions well documented in history it has been remarkably effective.

"So Teribus, by YOUR standards there is no such thing as torture if the subject is not wearing a uniform."

No Don the absence of uniform and the other details specifically mentioned means that the person captured cannot be classified as a Prisoner of War and that as such the rules relating to treatment of POW's cannot apply.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:52 AM

""Was he a recognised combatant?" - No he was not

"Wearing the uniform of a duly constituted and recognised power that was party to the conflict?" - No he was not

"Had the person being waterboarded fulfilling the above requirements been taken into capitivity?" - None of the above requirements had been met.

"What was the subject of his interrogation?" - Reasons surrounding his capture.

Squeeze the fucker til the pips squeak.""

So Teribus, by YOUR standards there is no such thing as torture if the subject is not wearing a uniform. You can do whatever you like to him, and it is fully justified (notwithstanding the fact that most of the civilised world considers it a crime against humanity).

Tell me Teribus, where DO you draw the line?

Thumscrews?
The Rack?
Red hot irons?

Truly, you do have one of the finest and most incisive minds of the twelfth century.

Not only is torture a crime against humanity, and morally and ethically indefensible. It is also INEFFECTIVE!

When you apply it, you find that you have lots of guilty men on your hands, since the majority will tell you whatever you want to hear, just to make the pain go away.

Absent the question of uniform, you are also wrong about whether the US is at war.

Straight from the lips of your revered and heroic ex leader.

The United States President, George Bush, declared war on the "Axis of Evil", and war on "terror".

So, like it or not, in the mind (if you can call it that) of your hero, the US was, and still is, fighting a war.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:54 AM

Basic misconception there Amos:

"we are at war" Last time I looked neither the USA, the UK or any of the other 43 countries supporting the UN effort in Afghanistan are "at war" with anybody.

"To qualify under the Third Geneva Convention, a combatant must have conducted military operations according to the laws and customs of war, be part of a chain of command, wear a "fixed distinctive marking, visible from a distance" and bear arms openly. Thus, uniforms and/or badges are important in determining prisoner-of-war status; and francs-tireurs, terrorists, saboteurs, mercenaries and spies do not qualify."

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Amos
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 06:47 PM

Is torture a violation of the Geneva Convention, or is it not?

You seem to find it convenient to cherry pick bits of the scene--we are at war, but the other side are rag tag terrorists. So we can operate on the rules of war, flat-out effort, but we can treat them as covert operatives and not soldiers because they don't wear uniforms. Therefore we can torture them at will without fear of legal recrimination. Is that the deal?



A

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 06:37 PM

Interesting contribution GregF but about par for you. It is the reason I do not pay attention to anything you have to say.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 06:14 PM

Bugger Off, T-bird.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 05:22 PM

"In 1947 the US sentenced a Japanese officer to 15 years for waterboarding."

And the circumstances were what?

Was the man waterboarded a bona fide "Prisoner of War" as defined by the Geneva Convention?

Was he a recognised combatant? Wearing the uniform of a duly constituted and recognised power that was party to the conflict? Had the person being waterboarded fulfilling the above requirements been taken into capitivity? What was the subject of his interrogation?

My guess is that in the instance you are talking about the answers to the questions above would be as follows:

"Was he a recognised combatant?" - Yes he was

"Wearing the uniform of a duly constituted and recognised power that was party to the conflict?" - Yes he was

"Had the person being waterboarded fulfilling the above requirements been taken into capitivity?" - Yes he had been

"What was the subject of his interrogation?" - Anything other than anything relating to circumstances of his capture and the interrogation itself is illegal.

Now my guess is that in the last instance the "interrogation" had nothing whatsoever to do with the prisoners capture and it was just carried out to enforce "camp discipline" in which case the bastard who dished out the punishment deserved every single second of his 15 year sentence.

Now translate that to your Gitmo mob:
"Was he a recognised combatant?" - No he was not

"Wearing the uniform of a duly constituted and recognised power that was party to the conflict?" - No he was not

"Had the person being waterboarded fulfilling the above requirements been taken into capitivity?" - None of the above requirements had been met.

"What was the subject of his interrogation?" - Reasons surrounding his capture.

Squeeze the fucker til the pips squeak.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 05:13 PM

Interesting how Republican administrations seem to be fond of disappearing tapes.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:45 PM

Ah, Jeeze, Jack, there ya go again with them pesky FACTS!

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM

In 1947 the US sentenced a Japanese officer to 15 years for waterboarding.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 05:30 AM

What "International Law" are you referring to Amos?

DougR is quite correct "waterboarding" is not a crime, if it were to be viewed that way it would rank as "common assault", and only those directly involved "hands on" could be charged. It would not even merit ABH, and certainly would not be classified as GHB.

No George W. Bush & Co will not be charged with War Crimes neither will Tony Blair or any of the leaders of the 38 countries that participated in the Invasion of Iraq in March 2003.

But never mind Amos you could start up a thread similar and as pointless in nature as your Impeachment effort of a couple of years ago. The outcome and the result will be the same.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:06 PM

Go back to sleep, Douggie.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: DougR
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:27 PM

As far as I know, waterboarding is not a crime. If it was, GWB would aleady have been legally challenged. He has not. Just a bunch of left-wing liberals think so.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 11:41 AM

Bobert: "
So ya'll shouldn't be surprised about Georgie... I mean, look at Bush v Gore???"

Yeah, Not much choice there! Both are frauds!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:47 AM

Jeeze, DOug, stick to the issue, huh?

Talk about a forlorn hope.........

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Amos
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 10:31 AM

Jeeze, DOug, stick to the issue, huh?

Was the torture resorted to (waterboarding) a violation of international law concerning the conduct of war? Or was it not?

If it was a violation of law, who should be said to have committed the violation?

If it was not, how was it not?


A

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:07 AM

Well, it ain't as if Georgie woke up one mornin' thinkin' that a life of crime would make a good career choice...

All ya' gotta do ism ask the residents of Arlington, Texas who Georgie and some of his mob buddies stuck the citizens with the expense of building a stadium for the Texas Rangers baseball team and then sold the whole she-bang to other investors (stadium included) and walked away with well over $100M??? But, it was perfectly legal because the crooks wrote the loopholes into the law to allow such immoral transactions...

But wait!!! Georgie wasn't done yet... His share of the theft was over $10M which Georgie misreported on his tax returns which cost the US tax payers another couple million but...

...rich kids like Georgie never have to pay for their sins so the IRS never audited him even though it was brought to light???

Go figure???

So ya'll shouldn't be surprised about Georgie... I mean, look at Bush v Gore???

The man has a mentality that laws are for, ahhhhh, other people...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:32 AM

100....................War crimes....At least!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:26 AM

If GW is a war criminal, go arrest him, or stop bitching!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: DougR
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:47 AM

"Truth Out", huh, Amos. Where did you dig up this obscure blog? It's not biased, right? Who says so? "Truth out"?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 07:19 PM

Just a little historical comment here...

The USA committed massive war crimes against the indigenous population in the Phillipines following the defeat of Spain in the Spanish American War. At least 100,000 Filipinos were slaughtered for attempting to seek independence from US military rule.

No one in the USA was ever tried for those war crimes.

Winston Churchill ordered the slaughter of a great number of Middle Easterners in the area now called Iraq when they resisted the British colonial occupation. The British were there for the oil. Tribesmen were strafed and bombed by the RAF and massacred en masse.

Winston Churchill and the RAF were never tried for those war crimes.

The USA illegally bombed Cambodia during the Vietnam War, causing the destablization of that society and the eventual emergence of the Khymer Rouge who killed about 1/3 of the population of that country. The Khymer Rouge's main patrons were Red China and (for awhile) the CIA.

Nixon and the American military were never tried for those war crimes.

What on Earth makes anyone think Bush ever will be tried for waterboarding people, invading Iraq, lying about his reasons for doing so, etc???

Not a chance!

Look, people, the wealthy elite that runs the $ySStem does not get tried for war crimes. They OWN the courts and the mass media and Congress and the military and the police. They are not made accountable. And they never will be....unless some future alliance of nations successfully invades and conquers the USA in some future war which we cannot yet foresee or imagine.

Then maybe the American ruling elite will be put on trial. But short of that happening?   Never.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:53 PM

Bush is in violation of International Law. I hesitate to think what would have happened to him at the Nuremberg Trials.

His book is a pack of lies.

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Amos
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:46 PM

Truthout remarks the following:


"In his memoir (which some wise people have already moved in bookstores to the CRIME section) George W. Bush admitted that he authorized that detainees be waterboarded, tortured, a crime under US and international law.

Bush's crime confession coincides with reports that no one will face criminal charges from the US Department of Justice for the destruction of 92 CIA videotapes which contained interrogations using waterboarding.

Where is the accountability for these crimes?

Also see: "Special Prosecutor Declines to File Criminal Charges Over Destruction of CIA Torture Tapes"

Bush and other criminals will be brought to justice if the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR) and the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights (ECCHR) have their way.

CCR and ECCHR jointly intervened into a criminal investigation in Spain examining the role of former civilian and military officials from the Bush administration in the commission of international law violations, including torture. The investigation is ongoing and includes the crimes that Bush admitted he authorized.

CCR and ECCHR made it clear that they are committed to pursuing criminal accountability and Bush's confessions help. In a joint statement they said:

    "As Attorney General Eric Holder stated during his confirmation hearings, waterboarding is torture. Calling these acts what they are, torture, is not the result of differing legal 'opinion,' as Bush states; it is a matter of law. Harold Koh, the State Department Legal Adviser, confirmed this in Geneva last week, stating during the U.S. Universal Periodic Review that "the Obama administration defines waterboarding as torture as a matter of law" and it is not a 'policy choice.'

    "There are no circumstances or excuses - including 'national security' - under domestic and international law that allow for the use of torture. And there is an obligation to investigate and prosecute torture.

    "Bush's decision to authorize torture and other illegal acts against detainees held in U.S. custody led to the use of torture at Guant‡namo, in Iraq, Afghanistan, and in secret prisons by U.S. forces, and contractors, certain allies and the national forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. His decision led to Abu Ghraib.

    Do you like this? Click here to get Truthout stories sent to your inbox every day - free.

    "Debates as to whether or not waterboarding of detainees led to intelligence or make the nation 'safer' are not relevant questions. The only valid question is: can we torture? The answer is no.

    "Without accountability it is impossible to ensure that such actions are never authorized by any future president or other U.S. official. No immunity protects Bush from prosecution for acts which violate federal and international law. The Pinochet precedent demonstrates that the law eventually catches up with former presidents - even those who flout their impunity.

    "Bush states that accountability 'would set a terrible precedent for our democracy.'

    "We answer that not doing so is failing our democracy - yet again. We therefore urge the Obama administration and the Department of Justice to act upon their recognition that waterboarding is torture as a matter of law, to investigate and prosecute acts of torture and other serious violations carried out by officials of the former administration, including George W. Bush.

    "But we will not wait any longer for the Obama administration to act - we will continue seeking justice and accountability under the principle of universal jurisdiction and as counsel in the ongoing investigation in Spain."

Sell those books, George W., you may need the money for legal fees yet!"

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: DougR
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM

Amos: You are a funny man.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Amos
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:35 PM

Bruce:

You're getting silly again, old friend. I meant that the reason Obama did not go after Bush's ass is it would have been counterproductive. Not that he couldn't have done it successfully. That much is obvious.


A

Subject: RE: BS: GW Bush IS a war criminal!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 05:33 PM

You are both equally irrelevant...in the other's terms. ;-) Matter of fact, most of the people who post here are irrelevant in each other's terms, because hardly anyone comes here to actually listen to anyone else...just to hear themselves talk and get a charge out of that. We are all engaging in the glory of our complete irrelevance vis a vis one another's opinions, and does anyone care? Ha! Ha! It's just like the infantile political debating shows on American TV. Mutual incomprehension underlaid with mutual contempt and a dash of snide indifference on the side...makes for a tasty yet piquant dish that sticks to your ribs for a short time only. Soon you will be back to the dinner table or the idiot box for more.

And while it's all happening, the plutocrats and bankers continue to rule.