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BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism

WalkaboutsVerse 06 Nov 10 - 06:46 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 07 Nov 10 - 05:14 PM
Richard Bridge 07 Nov 10 - 05:30 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 08 Nov 10 - 08:13 AM
s&r 08 Nov 10 - 10:23 AM
Richard Bridge 08 Nov 10 - 10:26 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Nov 10 - 04:30 AM
John MacKenzie 09 Nov 10 - 05:39 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 09 Nov 10 - 06:26 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 09 Nov 10 - 06:30 AM
catspaw49 09 Nov 10 - 06:41 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Nov 10 - 07:03 AM
s&r 09 Nov 10 - 11:44 AM
Stu 09 Nov 10 - 12:11 PM
mandotim 09 Nov 10 - 12:32 PM
John MacKenzie 09 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM
GUEST 09 Nov 10 - 01:54 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Nov 10 - 01:57 PM
mandotim 09 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Nov 10 - 02:53 PM
mandotim 09 Nov 10 - 04:12 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 09 Nov 10 - 05:12 PM
s&r 09 Nov 10 - 05:37 PM
mandotim 09 Nov 10 - 05:48 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 10 Nov 10 - 06:32 AM
mandotim 10 Nov 10 - 07:07 AM
catspaw49 10 Nov 10 - 08:59 AM
Tom - Swords & Songs 10 Nov 10 - 10:53 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 10 Nov 10 - 12:00 PM
mandotim 10 Nov 10 - 01:43 PM
s&r 10 Nov 10 - 04:03 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 10 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM
s&r 10 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM
mandotim 11 Nov 10 - 02:33 AM
mandotim 11 Nov 10 - 02:42 AM
Amergin 11 Nov 10 - 03:00 AM
GUEST,Suibhne Astray 11 Nov 10 - 06:37 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Nov 10 - 06:42 AM
mandotim 11 Nov 10 - 11:31 AM
olddude 11 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM
mandotim 11 Nov 10 - 12:34 PM
Big Mick 11 Nov 10 - 12:43 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Nov 10 - 01:08 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Nov 10 - 01:24 PM
Will Fly 11 Nov 10 - 01:29 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Nov 10 - 01:49 PM
Will Fly 11 Nov 10 - 01:54 PM
s&r 11 Nov 10 - 02:32 PM
olddude 11 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 11 Nov 10 - 02:43 PM
s&r 11 Nov 10 - 03:01 PM
mandotim 12 Nov 10 - 02:52 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 12 Nov 10 - 07:17 AM
s&r 12 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM
mandotim 12 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 12 Nov 10 - 12:10 PM
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s&r 12 Nov 10 - 03:21 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 12 Nov 10 - 05:11 PM
mandotim 12 Nov 10 - 05:56 PM
s&r 12 Nov 10 - 06:47 PM
catspaw49 13 Nov 10 - 08:58 AM
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catspaw49 13 Nov 10 - 01:42 PM
WalkaboutsVerse 20 Nov 10 - 06:20 AM
catspaw49 20 Nov 10 - 01:00 PM
s&r 21 Nov 10 - 06:48 AM
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mandotim 21 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM
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Subject: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 06:46 PM

This was my Theory Slam, as part of the B.B.C. Radio 3 Free Thinking Festival, at the Sage Gateshead today...

CUT CAPITALISM

After introducing myself, David Franks, plus mentioning David Cameron's approach:

We can fix the budget deficit, and level our Goliath-like inequality, with one sling stone - taxation of the rich. And there'd be no brain-drain from our nation if and when the United Nations finally respects native land rights, and makes all economic immigration (which is synonymous with capitalist immigration) illegal from now on.

And, as for capitalism itself, what some get for their hours work compared with others is ridiculous and inhumane, so, if we like fair competition, we don't like the free market. The better way is to accept that we humans are competitive, and have strong regulations to make that competition as fair as possible; and the best way to regulate large facilities is to nationalise them.

Or, if your prefer it in verse from my collection WalkaboutsVerse - "Global Regulationism."
Or, if you prefer it from Shakespeare in Measure for Measure - "Liberty as surfeit is the father of much fast."
Or, if you prefer it from Steinbeck in Grapes of Wrath - "Business is glorified theft."

Thus, the Statue of Liberty, in Paris and New York, should be renamed the "Statue of Regulationism," and the newly-formed Tea Party should be dissolved.

And speaking of tea, the People's Republic of China now needs a socialist revolution to get rid of what seems to be the "Chinese Capitalist Party," and the revolting inequality its producing - to the point where Chinese are now buying into our free-market club football, which should, rather be regulated back to how it was: mostly locals in MEANINGFUL competition.

To sum up, then, in our "pursuit of happiness" (the theme of the festival), we should cut capitalism, because fair-competition requires strong regulations NOT freedom; and, unlike Castro at the U.N.!, we only have 3 minutes, so thanks for listening.

(It should be broadcast on Radio 3's The Verb, early next year.)


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:14 PM

Sorry: it's due to be broadcast on Night Waves NOT The Verb, along with a few others who participated in this Cafe Culture event.

And I forgot to type my mention of visiting China in 1988, when it was a very different nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:30 PM

Early for the first cuckoo, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 08:13 AM

Dear Richard: after (because of B.B.C. rules on competitions) the recorded segment, the audience were asked to applaud each participant separately and, in your language, very early cuckoos must be gaining some popularity.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 10:23 AM

This is somewhat redolent of Carroll Levis (?) or perhaps Hughie Green and the old Clapometer.

Applause is the spur of noble minds, the end and aim of weak ones.
Edmund Burke

So there you have it

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 10:26 AM

The "clapometer" was very nearly not so named in case it reminded anyone of a social disease. Hughie Green himself told me this.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 04:30 AM

Cameron's away, by the way - flown to the People's Republic of China...cucoup?!


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:39 AM

More sour, than sweet.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 06:26 AM

Hughie Green himself told me this.

In what circs?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 06:30 AM

The Jess Yates Cuckolding Circle. Bring a set of car keys and a Mrs Yates.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 06:41 AM

In other words, you still have no job and continue to place the blame on your misguided belief that the fault is with the rest of the world and not your own lack of skills, experience, and ambition.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 07:03 AM

...I went for a manufacturing interview last week; and, because they follow me on twitter, I just sent a PM to the BBC's Sunday Morning Live re. the possibility of a gig on the show.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 11:44 AM

WAV your breathtaking self-delusion beggars belief

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Stu
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:11 PM

Here we go . . .


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:32 PM

Stu, that's soooo unfair! I'm sure BBC producers follow WAV's twitterings just as avidly as the rest of us, and will doubtless be rushing to offer WAV a contract as we speak! After all, WAV has so much material that the nation is panting to hear! (Hang on...do I mean WAV has so much pants material...)


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM

Everybody who posts on Twitter has an ego problem


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 01:54 PM

For what it's worth, I use the American businesses Twitter, Facebook, and Myspace to promote my work and to check that of others, plus participate in some interactive T.V., such as the show mentioned above, where a few of my comments have appeared on-screen. Like most of you I suppose, I much prefer to discuss matters here on Mudcat - even though I sometimes get accused of both lack on "ambition" and "breathtaking self-delusion" within the space of a few posts by my fellow Catters!


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 01:57 PM

That was me, sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:36 PM

WAV, I'm sure that from your point of view the possibility of a gig on the BBC is in no way self-delusional.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 02:53 PM

Sorry if I've used the term "gig" a tad loosly - for those who haven't/can't watch S.M.L., it's a discussion programme, with about 3 guests, plus the public using various other media to add their views. And, Tim, it can't be that far from a BBC Radio recorded Theory Slam to a live discussion on the box, can it?...surely no harm in asking, with my 4 technical certificates, degree in humanities, travel through about 40 countries on a shoestring, etc!


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 04:12 PM

I'm sure the BBC will take your technical certificates into consideration when deciding whether or not to broadcast your views. I guess they'll probably check out your website as well. Any idea where they might find a link? They'll probably be very interested in your travels; after all, BBC staff don't get abroad much, do they?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:12 PM

...if they wanted to send me off with a camera crew on re-Walkabouts, Tim, I certainly wouldn't say no - Ubud, Bath, Beijing, Kuranda, Corfu...


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:37 PM

WAV you don't actually discuss anything anywhere. You show no sign of understanding what a discussion is. You sir are a hectoring evangelist for a church with a single member

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 09 Nov 10 - 05:48 PM

Sending you off with a camera crew...interesting idea! Would you be gone long?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:32 AM

...the team and I could, along the way, look at, e.g., some of the more difficult issues facing the U.N., such as Kashmir where there was in 1988, and sadly still is, violent conflict (I got distinctions for my essays on "Ethnic Identity and Ethnic Conflict" at uni) or the case of Fiji, which, contrary to Stu's words, I recently started a thread on here; plus many other such cases could be given a wider audience...


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 07:07 AM

Fantastic! Perhaps you and 'the team' could stay in Kashmir and Fiji for a while, to help the locals practice their own good culture? I'm sure they would be enraptured to hear from an authority on Ethnic Identity and Ethnic Conflict, especially at Undergraduate level! I'm sure they will be impressed by your technical certificates as well. When will you be leaving, do you think?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 08:59 AM

Not only that, he can school them in forklift work as well..........yeah, they will surely be impressed!!!!!


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Tom - Swords & Songs
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 10:53 AM

I think the nail on the head here seems to be that 4 technical certificates and an undergraduate degree in humanitites basically does not qualify you for anything at all and makes you an expert on nothing as these sort of qualifications are so widely held.
More important than the paper is what you have done with your hard earned qualifications...
The reason for people poking fun is that it seems absurd that you consider yourself applicable to be held up as a shining example of social anthropology by the BBC (especially given some of the views you have posted on here and elsewhere).
Tom


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 12:00 PM

"especially given some of the views you have posted on here and elsewhere" (Tom)...if you keep up-to-date on political affairs, you'll know that at least some of those views are becoming more mainstream - e.g., world leaders ARE questioning the multicultural state more-and-more.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 01:43 PM

Yes Tom, don't criticise WAV; after all, he's a self-published author, semi-gifted academic, unique musical talent and now nearly a broadcaster! His political views are widely heard (if not widely listened to), and his proposals for cultural separation clearly resonate with a lot of people (mostly those with shaved heads and lots of tattoos, it has to be said). His creativity knows no bounds, especially in the world of punctuation, and one must admire his modesty; surely someone with all these gifts and talents must be tempted to brag a little, occasionally?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 04:03 PM

Come on WAV - starting a thread is a poor apology for having a discussion. Discuss.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM

Well, Stu, after my Slam I (along with the others) was asked a couple of questions from the audience:

Who would be the main regulator in your Global Regulationism? A: a stronger more-democratic United Nations - apart from some local government, all any citizen of our world needs is their own nation and the United Nations (no E.U., U.K., Commonwealth, G20, etc., whose dissolution would in itself strengthen the U.N.).

Isn't capitalism, with it's incentives to build wealth, the best option we have? A: I disagree with the far-Left who say no inequality - there should be the incentive of an economic ladder to climb, BUT the inequality/gaps between the rungs that the free-market produces is, as I say, ridiculous and inhumane, and thus we need regulationism.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM

You see WAV in your last sentence you sum up your problem. Try replacing 'as I say'with 'I believe'

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:33 AM

Gosh WAV! I think you should reconsider your plans to be an international globetrotting troubleshooter, broadcaster and cultural educator; a role clearly beckons as supreme head of a newly constituted UN, within your policy framework of 'regulationism'. I guess you'll be sending off for an appliccation form? Don't forget to include a copy of your impressive CV. The UN has needed someone with technical certificates for years. (I looked for academic references on 'global regulationism', by the way, and all I found was your stuff; how nice to be a pioneer in the field!).


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:42 AM

That should be 'application', sorry WAV. I know how picky you are about spelling and grammar.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Amergin
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:00 AM

I hope you realise that by the slight exaggeration of his use of the word "gig", he means he will be showing up in the audience of the Graham Norton Show.....


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:37 AM

Maybe now you'll take the time to go into details as to exactly what it is that you mean by the worryingly euphemistic regulationism - and for that matter what form your stronger more-democratic United Nations will take...


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 06:42 AM

"(I looked for academic references on 'global regulationism', by the way, and all I found was your stuff; how nice to be a pioneer in the field!)." (Tim)...During the last recession/banking crisis, I heard political media on both sides of the pond use the very same term. And, Stu, so much for "having a discussion."


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 11:31 AM

WAV; I'm sure you did hear political media talking about regulationism. Do you hear any other voices? Will your new United Nations have an army to keep things how they should be? Generalissimo Walkaboutsverse has a nice ring to it!


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM

come on guys, why are you ganging up on WAV, he made a point, if you don't agree don't agree ... no bullying ok, not right.   He made a point as he believed ... right or wrong it is his point to make .. too much pounding on anyone ... starts to get me nuts. You are all too good a people to gang up. Let it go please


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:34 PM

I agree olddude, no bullying. Pisstaking, on the other hand...


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 12:43 PM

While I certainly don't agree with WAV's view of the world, I find the obsessive way certain of my Mudcat friends go after him to say far more about them than him. At times you have all come very close to having your posts deleted. Strong, even heated, discussion of the content is fine, in fact in my opinion, it is desired. When you cross the line to personal attack, I am going to be watching very closely. I don't care how long you have been here, whether you are one of the "elders" or a newbie, stick to the debate, attack the ideas, and stay away from the attacking of the person.

Mick
Forum Moderator


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:08 PM

Yes, Tim, instead of this..."Most of these operations are established and implemented by the United Nations itself, with troops serving under UN operational control. In these cases, peacekeepers remain members of their respective armed forces, and do not constitute an independent "UN army", as the UN does not have such a force. In cases where direct UN involvement is not considered appropriate or feasible, the Council authorizes regional organizations such as the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the Economic Community of West African States, or coalitions of willing countries to undertake peacekeeping or peace-enforcement tasks." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeping)...I'd have a U.N. Army; and, similarly, when a natural disaster occurs in any given nation, all aid would come from the U.N., with each member nation being taxed according to its means.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:24 PM

...when local/national aid agencies are unable to cope without outside aid, i.e.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:29 PM

David, do you not think there are a number of serious paradoxes in your proposed views? Here's one, for example:

You favour a complete stoppage of immigration/emigration and you also favour a sort of separate but equal culturalism, where each country lives its own cultural and separate life, free from the influence of other cultures. (Presumably you also favour strict and well-policed border controls to enforce such cultural isolations, plus draconian internal measures in each country to ensure cultural purity).

You also favour a stronger UN - presumably a sort of international police who would regulate all the activities of the world.

But if you strictly isolate countries and cultures from each other, there will surely be less international understanding and less co-operation - co-operation which would be an absolute necessity to create a stronger UN. You only have to observe the current arguments and polarities within conglomerates of countries - the EEC (which you don't care for), the Middle East, etc., to realise that an extrapolation of that conflict would be almost inevitable. Remember the League of Nations - utterly useless in preventing World War II.

You mention economic immigration as being a Bad Thing - how would you then help those persecuted peoples in Africa who have to flee their own country to a neighbouring country to avoid being murdered en masse? Call in the UN? A UN Army?

In short, give "man's inhumanity to man" (Burns), there appears to be little possibility of such a regulated world as you envision ever existing.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:49 PM

There's some mis-information in your post, Will, as anyone can see from the posts just above. And, as for asylum seeking in Africa or anywhere else, that too should be regulated by the U.N., with genuine asylum seekers helped to their nearest safe nation.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 01:54 PM

There's some mis-information in your post, Will

Is there? I've read enough of your previous posts about culturalism, and I think not. Specifics, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:32 PM

Genuine asylum seekers going to their nearest safe nation would mean that none came to the UK unless some southern Irish felt it necessary to flee Eire. And New Zealand would have to accommodate asylum seekers from Australia.....

So politically unstable countries would be allowed to push dissidents over the borders to slightly less unstable countries. Would that keep all the trouble makers together?

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: olddude
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM

ya can't cattle car people, it doesn't work ... today we are in a global everything ... we work together with other countries or we fail .. that is the way of the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 02:43 PM

"Nearest" in terms of culture as well as geography, i.e., Stu.
And above your first post, Will, I'd only mentioned "all ECONOMIC immigration".


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 11 Nov 10 - 03:01 PM

Oh, that explains it all. So Africa keeps all its own problems (similar culture, close geographically) The Examples I quoted would still be valid though cos we all speak English.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:52 AM

Righto,so we have a UN army in WAVworld. Pray tell me, o enlightened Antipodean, who would be in charge of this army? Would that person be elected? If so, how? If you think an army can be governed by committee, I would refer you to early Polish history, where an attempt to do this resulted in invasion and occupation of Poland for hundreds of years. Final question; if we have what in effect is a World Army, to whom is it accountable? If it screws up (as all armies do) who will mete out discipline?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 07:17 AM

Tim: I'm not "Antipodean" but, rather, an English repat, actually born in Manchester the day Alf Ramsay's English team won the World Cup (just ask Spaw!); and I'd leave it for experts in their fields to flesh out the details, but, as you may well know, the leader of the U.N. itself alternates between continents.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 08:35 AM

Going back to the original post, it might be a good idea to correct the Shakespeare quote:
'From too much liberty, my Lucio, liberty: As surfeit is the father of much fast,'
The abbreviated quote suggests that liberty has some relationship with surfeit. Not quite what was said.
The quote is meaningless without the 'too much'.
So what is said is that in the society under discussion the speaker believes there is too much liberty. He then compares the situation to the concept of excess (food perhaps?) will lead to a loss of appetite following the excess.
Hope that helps.

However, the comments of a fictional character in an entertainment have as much relevance to a discussion as a comedian's catchphrase, no what I mean?

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 09:14 AM

WAV; I'm heartbroken; you mean to say you're not an expert? In any of this? All the dogmatic pronouncements over the years have been from a basis of (at best) a dilettante? What about your qualifications? Surely somebody with four (count 'em!) technical certificates must be an expert? Gosh,I don't know what to believe in any more!
I apologise for calling you an 'Antipodean', I should have known from your broad Mancunian accent that your weren't from Down Under. I mistakenly believed that if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it probably is a duck. Can you walk like a duck, WAV?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 12:10 PM

Stu: in that quote, Shakespeare was surely presenting the idea that too much freedom is problematic, and I standby my use of it.

Dear Tim: I've never tried/ducked walking like a duck, but podiatrists in Australia (long before I repatriated) were quite surprised at how well I could walk on both my heels and my toes - largely due to good surgery work on my club foot, in Manchester, I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 02:53 PM

Let me get this straight then; you are completely and utterly English? This is serious; there's an Australian bloke claiming to be you on your website!


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 03:21 PM

But it is a misquote WAV. And Shakespeare of course is a playwright: not really a suitable choice to support political opinion.

As Shaw said 'not bloody likely'.

Or perhaps in the bartenders cocktail guide the vodka martini should be 'shaken not stirred' because Fleming wrote it

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:11 PM

I don't think it's a misquote, Stu, but I accept it's coming from a character in his play, rather than say a diary.

Tim: I wrote this a couple of years after repatriating - Millennium Dreams


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 05:56 PM

You couldn't have written it; some Aussie bloke wrote that! You're as English as citterns and English flutes!


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 12 Nov 10 - 06:47 PM

'From too much liberty, my Lucio, liberty: As surfeit is the father of much fast,'

is the quote - note the caps etc.....

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 08:58 AM

And all this time I read that as Sir Feit and thought it was the old queen who tried to give Alf Ramsey a blow job but Alf was a limpdick piece of shit and couldn't get it up............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 09:18 AM

...just when we thought this thread was dead, back comes Sir Spaw!


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM

And I return as I found out I had the wrong information! Actually it was Alf Ramsey who was the old queen...........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Nov 10 - 01:42 PM

Sorry there.......I should have said SIR Alf. Little known fact: He was knighted not for his WC win and contributions to sport but for his long service to the monarchy. First as the Royal Hat Blocker to King George and then as the Royal Hat Blower to Prince Phillip............

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 06:20 AM

It's the U.N. that should temporarily assist the troubled economy of Ireland; and there shouldn't be any economic/capitalist emigration/"brain-drain" from this fine republic, which I've enjoyed visiting - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#12


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 01:00 PM

I hadn't realized it til Prince William proposed and all that hype, but Prince Philly had Sir Alf stuffed after his passing and then did some other passing. It seems a "Vibra-Blow" Suction Unit was instaled in Alfie's mouth and Phillip used him for a few more years before passing him on to Prince Charles. Charley has promised him to William as a wedding present and I hear they'll all have a go at old Alf as part of the bachelor party.............


Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 06:48 AM

a Which pot of money should the UN use WAV?

b There are many parts of the world that would be poorer places without the skills and energies of Irish Migrant workers. And many genres of music that have benefitted from the injection of the Irish love of music song and dance.

Many of my adopted Irish family have emigrated: some have returned to Ireland several times within their working lives. They've gone where the work and their skills will take them. Ireland is not a quaint land filled with souvenir shops and leprechauns - it has supplied workers for many major constructions around the world.

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 01:40 PM

I just heard on the news tonight, Tim, it will be Europe and the UN's IMF - as I say, I think it should be just the latter.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM

Sorry, were you talking to me? It's just that I didn't say anything...If you were, could you explain the gibberish you just wrote? It's not the voices talking to you again is it?
Tim


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 02:45 PM

"Stu" not you, Tim - sorry, you two.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 04:58 AM

I'm descended from a long line of Irish tailors, one of whom emigrated to England to set up shop on the Castle Garth Stairs in Newcastle which was famous for tailors (Irish or otherwise) as mentioned in a famous Tyneside folksong: The quayside for sailors / the Castle Garth for tailors. No tailors there now, but you can still see the old shop fronts.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 08:06 AM

I'm descended from the original navvies; the men (and some women) who came to England and built the inland waterways; the navigators, or 'navvies'. I had a wonderful experience not long ago; my dad took me to see a lock on the Hudderfield Narrow Canal, and showed me a very worn and indistinct carving in the stone; done by my ancestor. I grew up on Irish song, folk tales and artistic culture...in WAVworld, this makes me an impossibility; born in England, but with an Irish culture!


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 09:55 AM

Irish culture, is not unlike Scottish,Welsh, or for that matter English culture.
I just been enjoying some very fine English "culture" from the Boat Band, and I'm a Scotsman!!

However if you want to see how "multiculturalism" is not working, come to Glasgow, or any other large city with Asian communities.
There is virtually no cultural mix, nor will there ever be, mainly because of the religious differences.
Multiculturalism is a lie and the politicians know it is lie.

I disagree strongly with WAV's views on the rightness of the capitalist system however.....I consider that the biggest impediment to our futur happiness and wellbeing.

Everyone, inc WAV, should be applauded for offering up their opinions,
especially on a "liberal" forum like this.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 02:43 PM

"I disagree strongly with WAV's views on the rightness of the capitalist system however.....I consider that the biggest impediment to our futur happiness and wellbeing." (akenaton)...by "that" do you mean capitalism or opposition to it, such as my Slam?


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 12:40 PM

Stop press re. our "pursuit of happiness" - the theme of the above-mentioned festival: David Cameron plans to spend a couple of million to find how happy we are. ;-)>


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 25 Nov 10 - 01:21 PM

If the Tory twat asks me what would make me happy, I'll just say 'resign!'.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 06:19 AM

I'm still struggling with the concept of a "Slam"?
It sounds very painful.
It's something I occasionally do with doors when vexed.
Don't see the connection with lectures though.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 06:48 AM

Our stance on many issues/bills largely boils-down to how much inequality we accept; as said, I think it's revolting here, even worse in the U.S.A., and rapidly getting worse in China, e.g.; thus, overall, Tim, I agree - but New "Foreign" Labour's pro-immigrationism was shameful.

And from my point of view, Ralphie, these "Theory Slams" give folks not on the lecture circuit a chance to have their views broadcast - and can be quite entertaining.

Here's how the Sage Gateshead descibed the event.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:13 AM

Hi WAV; perhaps you could expand on your term' pro-immigrationism' as applied to the last Government? Most of their erstwhile supporters would have described them as anti-immigration.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 09:47 AM

There were record levels of economic immigration under New Labour, Tim, and most of their current leaders now admit that they got it wrong.

And, as I've tried to explain several times, if economic immigration is synonymous with capitalist immigration, then questioning it is a Left- NOT Right-wing stance.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 09:51 AM

...or if you prefer it in verse - http://walkaboutsverse.webs.com/#75


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:00 AM

'Record levels'. Your source for that assertion please? Could you also separate out EU migration from non EU migration, as the government of the day may be held responsible for one and not the other? Also; what is your definition of 'economic immigration', as it's not a term in common use? Economic migration, I understand. Also; what were the net figures under Labour, as the emigration figures also rose? Also; how many of the migrants from EU countries are still here? As you know, there was a huge outflow of migrant workers as soon as the current recession hit. Finally; how do you propose that UK employers replace workers in occupations where there not enough suitably qualified or willing UK applicants? Just trying to help you refine your ideas. At the moment they don't really make sense.
Tim
Ps; no, I don't want it in verse, I'd be grateful if you would stop suggesting it.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:07 AM

I've tried in verse and prose, Tim, so why don't you just tune in to some current affairs programmes.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 10:26 AM

I've tried in verse and prose, Tim, so why don't you just tune in to some current affairs programmes.

This isn't good enough, David. You're now starting to respond as you have done in previous threads - just making assertions with no textual evidence. Telling someone to "just tune into some current affairs programmes" is not evidence which supports your claims - as discussions in current affairs programmes are often themselves assertions.

You're perfectly free to make whatever claims you like but, unless you can point other people to the hard, factual sources on which you base the claims - sources such as those that Tim is asking for - then your arguments are just opinions.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 04:11 PM

Sorry WAV I've been careless in reading your posts.

The pursuit of happiness is indeed important and the biggest impediment to happiness and understanding of our true place in this world is of course Capitalism.

What we are to replace it with, is for future generations to determine.....I salute you for trying to spread the message on the invidious nature of the "great money trick"


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: s&r
Date: 26 Nov 10 - 08:51 PM

WAV

Your attempts to 'explain' your bizarre concepts and assertions only serve to demonstrate to me the rather flimsy nature of your understanding. Your points are unarguable not because of any validity but because they are inconsistent ill researched (Wiki) and generally off the wall.

But you have a right to hold your opinions - just don't expect any one to agree

Stu


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: DougR
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 02:18 PM

Wow, Spaw! Miracle DO happen! After ten years, you said something I am in agreement with! :>

Mick: Your post, as Forum Moderator, made on 09 Nov 10 chastising posters for their personal attacks on WAV: when did you get religion? Perhaps a review of your personal attacks on me from time to time might be in order IF personal attacks are no longer permitted.
:>) This comment is not to be taken as support FOR personal attacks however.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 27 Nov 10 - 06:42 PM

With all respect to WAV, no one attacks him personally, not do they attack his rather inane reationary opinions; what they attack is the fact that he choses to PUBLISH & PROMOTES them, which makes them FAIR GAME for the sort of fair minded criticisms that invariably attend a WAV thread. That said The re-Imagined Village is a wealth of genuine wondement, but when he's still publishing such drivel as Traditions exist due to folks being impressed by how their forebears did things; and, when people lose their own culture (due to globalisation/Americanisation, etc.), society suffers, plus our world
becomes less-and-less multicultural
and There are many different fiddles from many different lands – for example, the Chinese erhu fiddle, the Norwegian hardanger fiddle and, the one most in the West now play, the Italian fiddle/violin. etc. you have to wonder.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 12:24 PM

I standby my "slam(s)" but, if any of you wish to post yours here, I, for one, will read them - even if they take more than 3 minutes.


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Subject: RE: BS: WAV's BBC-Recorded Slam: Cut Capitalism
From: mandotim
Date: 28 Nov 10 - 12:57 PM

If you are going to 'standby' your slams, does that mean you are going to keep quiet about them until they are really needed? Just wondering...


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