BS: Sweaty windows

Subject: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 12:39 PM

We have double glazed aluminum framed windows. We are losing heat and cooling through the frames. We can't afford new windows. Carol id caulking and painting. That should limit the damage from mold. What about insulating tape. Is there a good looking white tape we can use or one that will take paint and caulk?

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:20 PM

Some ideas here.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:33 PM

Try looking at www.cmhc.ca... might be sommat there.

The only way I know how to abate al frame problems is from the outside. Given that relacement is not an option.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:48 PM

Try to keep the house at a constant temperature, doesn't have to be too warm, just constant.
Biggest cause of condensation problems is atmospheric temperature variation......and gas heaters.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 03:53 PM

AFAIK aluminium window frames should include thermal breaks, but even if they do not the loss through frames is fairly low. If condensation is a major problem (1) check air circulation (2) avoid using moist heat (3) use hygroscopic solutions and recycle daily.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:30 PM

What is moist heat?

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:41 PM

Akenaton and Robert Bridge have diagnosed the cause of the problem.

Here in Alberta where it can get very cold and the humidity very low, most people have humidifiers attached to their furnaces. Sweating and ice on the windows is unavoidable if warm moist air is desired in the house, especially if there is a small leak in the double panes.

Our water is high in calcium-magnesium; the filters in the humidifiers have to be either cleaned or replaced often, a nuisance.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:47 PM

When bottled or mains gas is burnt, it gives off water vapour ...moist heat.

All combustion gives off moisture....but unvented gas heaters are the devil's invention.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 04:57 PM

We built internal wood frames with shrink film and put up heavy insulated drapes. We also popped out the frames every 2 to 3 weeks and dried every thing down with hot beach towels fresh from the tumble dryer.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:12 PM

Is this turning into a rather sexy thread, or....is it me.....?

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: C-flat
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:18 PM

Moist heat and beach towels....

Yeah, I like the way you're thinking Lizzie.. Haha!

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 05:26 PM

Now listen, you are NOT to go anywhere NEAR the 'Personal Satisfaction' thread, CF, 'cos it's just not good for you! :0)

And now, back to cling film and insulated drapings..

"Quick, Nurse, the screens!"

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:14 PM

It is possible to get from your local hardware store thin sheets of clear polycarbonate.If during the winter months you put up a wooden frame around the window and screw (sorry Lizzie)the polycarbonate to it ,making temporary double glazing you will find that it sorts the problem and keeps more heat in.
I tried not to make that too sexy Lizzie .
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 06:26 PM

Phew! Too late!!

You'd not *believe* the images I get for 'poly carbonate' Alan! ;0)
She was a lass, that Polly!

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:50 PM

In the first post, Jack mentioned that he has double glazing. Of course triple glazing may help.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: gnu
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 07:57 PM

"When bottled or mains gas is burnt, it gives off water vapour ...moist heat."

So, that would be from the hob? I assume the exhausts from the furnace and water heater are vented properly.

That being said, there is far more water vapour produced from taking a bath or a shower or from cooking a stew on the hob, which also occur in my house which is heated with electricity.

I still don't understand how "moist heat" adds much to the humidity in a dwelling. Perhaps you could edify me. I really would like to grasp this concept in the full.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 08:49 PM

Gnu, don't you have a humidifier attached to your furnace?

Moist heat.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Nov 10 - 09:29 PM

"sweaty windows" I wondered whether this had anything to do with computers...

"moist heat" - Hydrogen from the hydrocarbon fuel combines with Oxygen in the air to burn and produce H2O - water - the carbon -> CO2. Coal or coke fires produce less water vapor than wood or gas fires.

The old wood stoves (which vent outside) produce 'dry heat' - they elevate the temperature thus reducing the humidity. Humans need some humidity, totally dry air is not good for us and can promote illness - so one often has some water boiling on the old wood stove.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 03:43 AM

>>>"Gnu, don't you have a humidifier attached to your furnace?

Moist heat. "<<<


My mummy always told me that a nice girl doesn't ask a man a question like that.. ;0)

Apologies...it's just the image in my head, oh dearie me... LOL

This could turn into the BEST thread on Mudcat if we're not careful! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:24 AM

But that's a solar panel on top of his head?

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:28 AM

;0) (can't speak, spluttering too much!)

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 05:31 AM

It's the way I tell 'em folks!


Boom! Boom!

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: JennieG
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 06:38 AM

When my eye caught the title of this thread I thought it was "sweaty widows".......

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 06:42 AM

Boom! Boom!

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Alan Day
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 06:58 AM

Lizzie
You have just melted my mouse !!
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 07:02 AM

I've heard of steamy windows not sweaty ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 10:16 AM

At least sweaty ones are better than sticky ones...

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Sooz
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 11:58 AM

The air you breathe out is 100% saturated with moisture as well. The moisture will condense out on any cold surface and aluminium window frames without a thermal break are a disaster. We replaced ours with UPVC. Before we had saved up emough to do that, I wiped the condensation away a couple of times a day to discourage the mould.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 12:38 PM

Sweaty windows reminds me of this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irHm7-HMaO0

She is enough to make any windows steamy and sweaty, including my glasses LOL :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Alan Day
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 02:40 PM

If the window is cooler/colder than the inside temperature then condensation will form on the windows. Shops have major condensation problems and they have to fix a blower system to dry the moisture on the windows to enable people to see their stock.
This problem is not to be confused with double glazed systems that have "Blown" where the seal in the unit is leaking , and moisture forms between the two panels which form the double glazed unit.
Secondary double glazing is the best for reducing the problem, but many dislike it for aesthetic reasons.
Al

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: gnu
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 03:00 PM

Robin... those products are expelled from the dwelling. If not, you die. On accounta it is not CO2, it's CO (carbon monoxide).

Re humidifiers attached to a furnace. I don't like em... too much maintenance if you want to preclude health problems. A small humidifire is far better in the long run if needed to adjunct showering and cooking.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 03:45 PM

You could use the method used in air conditioned autos.

I haven't checked on recent models, but a few years back whenever the AC compressor was run it held the evaporator at a constant temperature, typically 40F (4C). (Anything colder could cause it to ice up.)

If you wanted anything "less cold" than that, the heater re-heated the cold air that came through the evaporator, and/or mixed hot air with it.

Since nearly all the moisture in the air that came through the evaporator was "wrung out" and reheating it additionally reduced the relative humidity, the re-heated air was very dry, and (theoretically) your windows didn't fog up.

Usually, anytime the defroster/demister setting was selected, the AC was automatically turned on, but if the OAT was below 40F/4C of course it wouldn't run. At temps that low, a relative humidity of 100% is pretty close to an absolute humidiy of "nothing much," so it didn't matter whether it ran or not.

So the simple solution is to turn your air conditioner on to wring out the moisture, and at the same time turn on your furnace to warm things up. You should have nice dry air in the house so that the windows won't drip. Just be sure that the condensate drain on the AC doesn't freeze up and drip back inside.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 07:06 PM

"on accounta it is not CO2, it's CO (carbon monoxide)."

Only if there is insufficent oxygen to burn it completely - if not, you are also losing potential heat generation from your fuel.

"The air you breathe out is 100% saturated with moisture as well. "

allacy.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 15 Nov 10 - 09:28 PM

Sweaty Windows? Not a problem for me. I've got a Mac. No sweat.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 01:54 AM

Talking about misreading thread titles.......In a glance I thought this thread was "Sweaty Widows'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:39 AM

Sounds like a rugby players shower room mmm!

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:54 AM

Wrap in shrink wrap and caulk repeatedly until sweaty????

I had some success with using those dissicant packs that come in electronic packaging to keep them dry. Put them between the plastic and the glass window.

I used the shrink wrap and have taken large foam insulating sheets and made round windows with plastic wrap or plexi glass. Plastic wrap worked best. Light wieght and reuseable for years. Just seal with theclear insulating tape which is great stuff.

Using the foam panels with smaller clear plastic windows put an end to the sweaty large window that was near the bathroom door. I had previously used a plexi glass insert but the condensation on the glass part was awful.

Subject: RE: BS: Sweaty windows
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:35 AM

Have a look on the heat exchangers thread. I posted one bit about a pressurised house system that brings in dry air.
I think that the firm involved were called Environvent or something similar.