BS: TSA groping your junk

Subject: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:21 AM

All the folks who loved the patriot act are now really upset by their 4th ammendment rights being abused by TSA airport guards who are groping everyone's genitals unless people opt for ionizing Xrays that show full body nakedness for all at TSA to see. Be you left leaning, right leaning or forward leaning this new policy of groping kids and granmothers alike is going way too far to supposedly catch an other undewear bomber.


This policy is not well thought through from the basic health adversities to deep seated psychological issues that will upset most people.

TSA has historicly stopped or caught exactly 0 terrorists.

Suppose a person has ruptured sperm ducts and the 8 dollar an hour TSA gurad squeezes tesitcles? An infection? A cyst? A Boil? What if a gay person insists upon a female to grope his genitals, but he is not gay but just wants Sally too touch his junk. Suppose your 12 year old daughter slaps the guard who is rubbing her vagina region? Will she be detained or arrested?

What kind of new employees is TSA going to attract? Pedophiles, pedergasts, junk groping crotch sniffing perverts?

The young man who said "touch my junk and I'll have you arrested" is being charged with obstructing a police procedure and faces a $10,000 fine for walking away.

A pilot was suspended for refuseing the X ray. Every knows that flying at altitude already exposes people more radiation and that female flight crew have a 1,200 percent increase of miscarriages compared to people who never fly.


Shoe bombs, donkey bombs, underwear bombs, teeth bombs, rectal bombs, shampoo bombs, toothpaste bombs, balm bombs...

Its all a Bullshit response that by the time you are about to board a plane - is already too late.

400 peple will be killed by lighting for every one airplane terrorists.



Did you know that all the first class mail under 1 lob each in the belly of a passenger plane ALWAYS goes unscanned?

ALl the checked luggaage in the belly of the plane has all the banned shampoos or baby formulas that could just as easily be an explosive set to go off by cell phone.

Hey I'm not a prude but most of the time a TSA ass hole will target the person arbitarily based on somthing about the person that pisses him off. In his hands the X ray is a tool of humilliation to him in every sense of the word.

WHen you are simply asked HOW ARE YOU and you say anything except fine, you are profiled for more scanning. IF you say you have a headache,,, you are getting W rayed - no question about it.



This holiday there will be protestors and people who will hold up the line as long as possible in protest.

There may even be people who wear a full Depends intentionally.

Until America grows up and stops being terrorized by every new armpit bomb or tooth pick bomb scare, I'm looking to avoid airlines and the new crotch groping line.

OK some of you will enjoy it, maybe most of you after a few drinks but I see more anxiety and spontaneous "incidents" of non compliance that may become more explosive than a band aid bomb.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amergin
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:57 AM

It can also create a hostile work environment: TSA Agent's Shortcomings

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:36 AM

I have a hard time thinking that any TSA agent is going to enjoy groping me! I got over modesty a long time ago, bring it on, I say.

The 4th amendment says ...UNREASONABLE search and seizure. What is unreasonable about making all of us a bit safer? They will not be seizing anything! Maybe I should rephrase that...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:52 AM

safer?
All of us?
TSA has NEVER prevented any terrorist act.

Captain Sullenberger was on CNN today speaking out against this nonsense for flight crews and passengers alike.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:54 AM

I thought the airport x-rays weren't supposed to be that revealing. If they are I object. I've been the subject too many secret photos by panting women (and a few men) to have them displayed in locker rooms all around the world. Even a buff and studly guy like me wants to get paid for being a pin-up.

Ever notice that it's not TSA or the Sky Marshals who stop these fools, but the passengers?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:24 AM

All the TSA needs to do to calm public ire over this issue is hire really good looking employees and give passengers a choice as to which one they want to be felt up by. I don't particularly wanna have my package groped by an ugly middle-aged man, but if they had a clerk who looked like Sandra Bullock I'd gladly endure it.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:25 AM

After the DMV misspelled my name on the drivers license they wouldn't accept it as a picture ID. I gave them one of my conceal carry weapons permits ... that will get ya down to your unders really quick .. been there

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:21 AM

As I watch the darkness that seems to be sweeping the land of my birth, I despair more each day.

Folks, until I retired a few years ago, I was flying six legs a week. I often scanned the faces of those around me. There are families on these flights. Dads and Moms trying to get home. Folks conducting business. What is being done, is being done to keep folks safe. It isn't about your sexually repressed fear that someone is looking at your nakedness. These body scans are NOT the result of some imagined threat. Have you not been paying attention to what has been taking place around the world? The terrorist factions have been sending any number of test cases out to probe for weaknesses in the security. Do you want us to first lose several hundred men, women and children before we react? Then you would blame the government for not anticipating. Were you not paying attention to the shoe and underwear bombers? They made for funny comedy bits on late night telly, but the fact is that they were real attempts to see if that would work. Now the latest, with the bombs discovered in the air cargo jet, is that these same organizations are probing to see if cargo is the way to go. Do you not get that these jets are high value targets? The TSA is a convenient target. It's a government agency, so that means you can hurl gratuitous attacks at them, and everyone, on cue, goes "yeah, they can't do anything right".

The day after we lose a couple hundred folks in a bombing, I can't wait to hear you all chime in about how we should do more to protect our jets from terrorist attacks. The rules the TSA instituted are fair, and have been vetted. Napolitano says they are subject to reasonable changes, but the first priority is safe flight. Those of you that are so worked up that someone is a room is looking at you need to get over yourselves. Do you not understand that this isn't a bunch of beer drinking goons having a party looking at your genitals. Doing this stuff hours at a time for hundreds of folks will pretty much take any titillation out of it. They can't see your face, they aren't taping you for sex videos.

Get over yourselves.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:34 AM

IT's indubitable that no-one wants to be terrorized. But people don't like being bullied, either.


A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: bobad
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:38 AM

I'm with Mick on this one, people are so effin' sexually repressed that they would rather risk their lives than have someone see a radiograph of their pee pees.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 11:03 AM

No one is more about security than me. Heck my kids were trained black belts and marksmen by the time they were ten. I accept all of the security measures. But when a couple of TSA agents start smirking and making comments and whispering their whatever's when the hot young girl went into the full body scanner as I mentioned in my thread recently .. then I question the quality of the people we have manning these things

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 11:07 AM

Being FREE from Unreasonable search and seizure is in the US Constitution and it means somthing very important except to the top dollar security industries and a few wusses.


If you guys are so effin scared shitless about an event that is a thousand times more unlikely than getting fatally hit by a bolt of lightning....

I heareby say to you that you are the one psychologiclly repressed
and you don't even know it.'

Forgive me but that is precisely delusional thinking.




Of course if we abandon all hope of freedom, an open society and the basic social contract of citizens who observe and defend the US Constitution,
then there is no reason to even discuss anything authorities want to do to you.



Abandon the Constitution
and everything goes.
Just keep your head down
and follow your nose,
March to the shower
though your fate may be dower
there is more on the hook
than your clothes.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:04 PM

The terrorist set out to change America ... I think in many ways they succeeded with the Patriot act and some of the other things that has been going on. Out of fear we imprisoned Japanese Americans because of their race doing WWII. Our own people .. it took 50 years to get an apology for it ... I see some of that today .. We don't learn from history I guess

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:11 PM

My junk doesn't get enough groping as it is, I might opt for that even though I have no problem with being seen naked under most circumstances, they wouldn't need a scanner...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:18 PM

RIsking lives does not equate to declining backscatter and groping, IMHO.

TSA needs to (1) train its people better, and (2) figure out how to manage this problem without punching so many buttons so invasively.


A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Becca72
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 12:44 PM

I have to agree with Mick on this, too. If you don't like it, drive.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 01:57 PM

Do you not understand that this isn't a bunch of beer drinking goons having a party looking at your genitals.

That's exactly what a lot of them are.

UK example

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:48 PM

Can't find the article (it was on my Rogers Yahoo email within the last two days) but it said "scientists" say the scans will RARELY cause skin cancer.

I would opt for the pat down. And, BWL, if Sandy was doing it I'd ask for a reeeeal slow one. Hell, I might even have to go back out to get sommat I forgot and go through again.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 02:56 PM

Why can't they design a machine that shows ONLY hardware and extraneous items? That entirely exclude the soft organic tissues?

Of course, they could.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 03:21 PM

this really depresses me... I cannot abide the thought of either the scanner or the physical search and I can't drive from the UK to my home country US.

Think I am going to be ill.

And for those who make comments about sexual repression.... perhaps you weren't sexually abused as a child, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:09 PM

In fact the millimeter wave devices which have been said to be unable tosave their scans have recently been the source of over 100 scans delivered to Gizmodo.


A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:24 PM

Story here

A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:29 PM

Scans are being copied and pirated to some sick webbastards? Unreal.

Must be videos taken by the staff, maybe?

In any case, just ask for a pat down. As far as being sexually abused as a child VT... come on... this is not sexual abuse and equating it to that in anyone's mind is a bit of a stretch. If anyone is that retentive they need a full brain scan.

The thing that evades me about the guy with the little dick is this... did he have a hardon when he went through the scanner? Otherwise, how could anyone judge the size of his dick? My dick is a wee tiny thing when I am being scanned but if Sandy was patting me down it would be a far different story. There's a big difference between a pocket novel and hardcover.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:32 PM

Well dollars to donuts the little blond college girl they were drooling over is probably now on some website .. that is what I mean who is watching the watchers

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:36 PM

The entire airport is covered head to toe with video .. you cannot pull into the parking lot or walk to the restroom without being on candid camera .. ok .. fair enough .. so why the hell is there not one pointed at the TSA agents .. Why didn't some supervisor come out and say, I want to see you two in my office right now ... Well you see - power tends to do what? that old saying is

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:43 PM

And what is next for guys like me ... well ya know you are a master in many forms of Marshal arts .. hence you now have to wear handcuffs and leg irons to fly? so where does it stop

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:52 PM

Post above re having a machine showing only "hardware" - that would be useless since the explosives are not "hard"; only a pin-sized insert and a transmitter elsewhere can cause a pretty good "ka-boom," and not the comic strip type, either.

Pat me down, baby, I don't care.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 04:59 PM

And the fact of the matter is "you are not safer" the system leaks like a faucet ... ok how is this, you pass through the scanner, go to your gate, fly to some location and wait for a connecting flight. Go get a steak dinner and steal a knife ... you are now on board the next flight with a real knife as a weapon .. does that make sense?? You are not rescanned unless you leave the secure area right ... no one is safer because of it. unless they want to shut down every restaurant inside the gates

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:08 PM

I could go on and on with a lot worse. I know a thing or two about security and I won't because I not going to give some bad guys ideas but the system is broken. The scanners give us a false sense of fuzzy. Making the old lady take off her dead husband's wedding ring ain't going to stop any bad guys .. some more shuttle things are needed for real security ... the best of all is have some guys trained who know what they are doing riding in that plane

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Mrrzy
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:14 PM

In Larry Niven's future you have to register as a lethal weapon if you know martial arts...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:23 PM

I would have to do it many times Mrrzy I taught instructors to the instructors. When I fly the people all around me are much safer, they just don't know it. We need more security onboard that is the real answer

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 05:54 PM

I don't give a damn if some airline security employee feels around my genital region as long as they do it gently. It is invasive? Yeah. But it's not a big deal, it doesn't last long, and I don't see why I should let it give me a conniption fit if I want to travel by air.

There is no way to make life totally safe against Muslim terrorism except THIS: Get the hell out of the Muslim countries, stop dominating and terrorizing them with our armies, navies, and air power, stop supporting Israel unilaterally on its every action, stop propping up hated Muslim governments in countries like Egypt, let the Muslim nations market their own oil exactly as they wish to, for whatever currency they wish to (Euro? Yuan?), and leave them the hell alone from now on.

Do those things, and you will see an end to Muslim terrorism attacks against the USA, Canada, and Western Europe, because those attacks have arisen out of anger over OUR terrorism and interference in the lives of Muslim populations ever since the end of WWII.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:37 PM

Well in the meantime if it were up to me every flight attendant along with their full safety training would know hand to hand and sharp edged weapons . Flight 93 never would have gone down if that were the case.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:42 PM

?? I looked at a couple of the examples of scans done on those machines, and I must say I don't 'see' much...certainly nothing that would identify an individual. It is blurry, vague and only barely indicates general body parts/shapes. I cannot comprehend how anyone could work up a 'prurient interest' in blurry gray blobs. I suppose someone wearing 'falsies' might be reluctant to be detected as less well-endowed than they pretend....but sheesh, unless you are famous, who cares?

Now, that opinion has little to do with my take on whether the scans are necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 06:47 PM

Bill your point is well taken, as I never saw one I probably shouldn't comment ... I have only heard the outrage on TV that they are clear but I suppose it is the type of scanner they are using who knows ... You make an excellent point however and I do stand corrected as I have not seen one in action

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:25 PM

Dan...see the link from Amos a way back.. Unless there are better ones, I think it is folks imaginations taking over.

I remember when I was young they had 'scares' about "X-ray glasses".

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:27 PM

I take at least four flights a year - twice a year I fly to the UK to visit family and friends. Whilst I am aware that the likelihood of being on a plane targeted by terrorists, that possibility does exist.

I would choose the scan to the body search - I had that once when the metal detector went off - and I'll take my chances with the radiation risk. If that is what I have to go through to make my visits to and from the UK so be it.

I must admit that some TSA staff tend to be very dictatorial and could maybe do with learning some people skills. However, there is little option, if one wishes to travel, than to deal with it all with as good grace as possible, particularly, for me, when the alternative is not to visit with my family on a regular basis.

If TSA staff are proved to be abusing their positions then action needs to be taken. Otherwise, find another means of transport because the likelihood of making changes by protesting is less than a snowball's chance in hell and you'll probably invite the ire of fellow passengers who get held up while you are making a fuss.

Subject: Frequent radiation from TSA scanners
From: Genie
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:29 PM

I'm not concerned about my bulbous naughty parts being seen by some TSA agent, but I am concerned about the possible ill effects of being scanned by those machines 10 times a year or more.   The input I've heard and read from experts tells me that the safety of such frequent exposure has not been demonstrated.

I also don't believe the scanners will prevent a terrorist blowing up a plane, so I think it's a great inconvenience, invasion of privacy -- we're going to have teenagers undergo virtual strip searches too? --, and potential serious health risk, without really making us safe anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:31 PM

After looking at the video Bill, I now have to agree with you .. pretty much nothing offensive that I can see.   I will still question their effectiveness as the only real security can be made when one enters the tunnel to get on the plane. If we still let the bad guys steal or buy anything they need inside the gate the security is useless.

At the very least instead of the scanner that costs so much money, a sniffer inside the tunnel would be far more effective. They are quite inexpensive and extremely accurate for detecting explosives. Likewise assuming anyone at anytime can bring a sharp edged weapon on board regardless of entrance security, have people on board trained to handle it .. far more effective

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:38 PM

Bill this example seems a lot more graphic

scanner

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:41 PM

crap ... my link doesn't work .. type in "body scanner" in google. It looks to me like Amos's links are before full rendering which is what they do ... the images Google show are pretty graphic ...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:44 PM

have a look at the after invert images ... she is completely in her glory

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: kendall
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:46 PM

From what I've read, this sort of thing is against the Muslim's religion. The rule applies to all, so will Muslims refuse to fly? Would that help solve the problem?

Little Hawk, you are right on the money!

I can't speak for anyone else but I don't consider my naughty bits to be junk!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 07:53 PM

LOL the old car hasn't been parked yet Captain LOL

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:02 PM

But when a couple of TSA agents start smirking and making comments and whispering their whatevers when the hot young girl went into the full body scanner as I mentioned in my thread recently .. then I question the quality of the people we have manning these things.

TSA agents monitoring the scanners should be able to see the scanned images, and only the scanned images. They should work in some sort of enclosure that prevents them from knowing anything about a passenger other than what the scanner reveals. The offensive behavior Dan describes would be eliminated if the agents hadn't seen the young lady before she entered the scanner. The scanner may show an image that's recognizable as a 5'6" female, but it doesn't show whether or not she's attractive. She could be a movie star or your Aunt Bertha. If an agent is going to drool over one woman's scanned image, it's going to be because he decided she was a hottie before she walked into the machine.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:13 PM

I wonder how much money some folks are making on this. As I pointed out it does nothing to stop anything as the bad guys can steal or buy what they need afterwords. The reasoning I heard was the underwear bomber. A hand held or rack mounted explosive sniffer (military grade) is 35,000 dollars as opposed to a multi million dollar full body scanner. So where is the tax dollar going under the illusion we are safer? So you keep a guy from bringing in a knife, and he walks down the hall and steals one from the restaurant ... so where exactly does the justification for the multi million dollar scanner come in

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:34 PM

before and after "invert" full body scan
invert

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:54 PM

I think maybe the ones used in media stories are fuzzed-over to save us from viewing 'inappropriate images'..

looks like a naked guy


knee replacement, nipple ring, wheelchair, and prosthesis
nice, clear view of a butt near the end

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:55 PM

hmmm... those ARE more graphic... I had no idea they could do that. I also have no idea how they can guarantee 'no copies' get saved and distributed...

If that's the usual quality, I foresee big problems.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 08:58 PM

From what I just been reading all over the place Bill the images I showed are correct. Now they are not suppose to do invert but you know someone is doing it

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 09:09 PM

As far as a gun goes the current metal detectors do a fine job at that. The only thing this technology brings to the table is in the case of a non metal knife (one of the composite blades) However, no one would bring one cause they could steal a real one ... the whole concept is nonsense but sure costing a ton of money. I would have been much happier with a 35K sniffer myself

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:05 PM

Perhaps our thinking is completely wrong. The only other reason for setting up such a system would be to capture and store images for facial recognition and tracking. How great a database could that create after several years. In addition you can capture and track everything. Run a pattern match on this ear ... foot, hand ... what a tool that would make ... they would pay anything for that data. Oh yea tell everyone we don't store the images

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:15 PM

Why did they swab the wheelchair man's hands?


Does it make sense for the Talkers to say images can't be saved while showing images that were saved?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Amos
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:36 PM

They swabbed his hands to determine if he had been handling explosive chemicals. These poor bastards are stuck between a rock and a hard place--not a good place if you don't have the imagination to find your way out.


A

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:37 PM

Melissa
the swap is a test for gun power or chemicals used for explosives. They say they do that a random, well they do it to me nearly every time LOL ... and I am one of the good guys geeze!!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 16 Nov 10 - 10:42 PM

You must look sneaky, Dan!


Does the swab-juice change colors?
If the guy was rolling his own chair, he probably had all kinds of crap on his hands..

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:25 AM

no it is like an alcohol swab   , they then run it in a machine :-)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:46 AM

Amos the video you linked is misleading.
The detail of the topical X ray is so detailed it shows the inner lips of the vagina or the circumcision fold. IT will show the fine lines around your eyes. Indeed the monitor can be adjusted to pixilate to the point of minute detail or mega block pixels.

But all the vanity issues aside, the options for children are dreadful. The options for flight crew are still under review.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:48 AM

(thanks, that's not anything I would have thought I'd learn about today!)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:51 AM

Since I believe in absolutely minimizing my exposure to X-rays, I would definitely go for the "hands-on" examination as opposed to being scanned by the machine. I am not perturbed about a doctor, male or female, briefly examining the area of my body around my genitals, so why should I worry about an airport security person briefly doing it? It's hardly what I would call a potentially "erotic" situation... ;-)

If it bothers you that much, try lobbying your government to pull its military people out of the Muslim nations, dismantle its bases in those nations, stop propping up corrupt Muslim dictators who happen to be American Allies, let the Muslins market their own oil without USA corporate control, and stop backing Israel unilaterally all the time.

Not that I think your government will pay the slightest attention to your lobbying in that regard...but at least you'd be addressing the real problem at hand rather than fussing around over secondary symptoms and aftereffects of the real problem.

Kendall - Good point! ;-) Our family jewels are NOT junk!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:18 AM

The thing is, this is completely unnecessary. The Israeli security force has been completely successful since 2002 in the most terrorist-fraught country in the world without pornographic x-ray machines or groping.

Read here.

"We have to do this for your safety" is just incorrect. It's a lie. They had to do that to pump money into somebody's uncle's machine-making company, more like.

(and telling somebody who was sexually assaulted as a child they should just let some stranger grope their bits and get over it? subhuman.)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 03:11 AM

"Post above re having a machine showing only "hardware" - that would be useless since the explosives are not "hard"; only a pin-sized insert and a transmitter elsewhere can cause a pretty good "ka-boom," and not the comic strip type, either." Q


I used 'hardware' in the sense of alien objects, Q, as might have occurred to you. So, I'll ask again: In what way does 'hardware' need to be attached to a visible body in order to be detected?

Anybody?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:24 AM

Ebbie
you are right and only an amateur would try and "bring something on their person" I won't go into more detail as I do not wish to help bad guys but the system is terribly broken and billions of dollars are being wasted. The whole point it to make the traveling public feel they are safe when that is far from the truth.   

We need serious people with skills to look at it and fix it so those traveling are as safe as we can get. You folks are right, Israel has it right and we do little of what they do. By the way, every flight on an Israeli aircraft has a marshal. How many of them could we pay for if we didn't piss our dollars away on a useless piece of "security" equipment that does nothing to help the cause

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:31 AM

I will go back to my original post since we now see it does nothing to help us security wise. The hot young college blond who was just trying to go back to school is now most likely a screen saver for some TSA back slapping chuckling idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:39 AM

So here's my idea... Develop scanning programs where no one actually is "checkin' you out" unless the computer picks up on something that is suspicious...

(But, Boberdz... Then you'd have lecther-pudders...)

Really???

Lets get serious here... The scanners expose you to less X-rays than actually the act of flying at 50,000 feet...

Lets get real here, Part 2... I mean, everyone has this certain attachment to their own sexual parts but there are hundreds of millions of these things in the world... I mean, the world is full of vaginas and penises...

It's far less invasive to walk thru a detector and have a pudder program look for bombs than it is to have someone gropin' on ya'...

Think they just need to tweek on this a little...

What I don't understand are folks who are perfectly willing to (in the name of freedom) to fly with people who have bombs in their BVDs???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: bobad
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:54 AM

"A CBS News poll released Tuesday also showed that a large majority of Americans agree with him. Only 15 percent of respondents said they were opposed to the use of body scanners, with four out of five saying they're in favor."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/11/officials-defend-airport-body-scans-poll-shows-overwhelming-majority-favor/

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: kendall
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:19 AM

How about a scanner that automatically detonates any explosive device that is on your person?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:20 AM

But Bob, if they scan you at check in and not at the boarding it is meaningless .. protects you against nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:39 AM

Doesn't matter where you set up the scanner, Oldster... If a computer is doing the search, who cares...

But I like Kendall's idea... You got explosives then you walk thru a detonator and... Bang, bang, yer dead... Works fir me...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 09:00 AM

Bob, I agree, I would gladly let them look at my junk anytime. If what they do really adds to security, but as I pointed out the location of where they do it makes all the difference. It is insane to check people at the gate then let them loose on a shopping trip before getting on the aircraft. You get a dozen folks now flying with God knows what. Do the scan, that is fine, get the agents heads on right so young girls and kids don't have to see what I did. And do it were it really will make us safe. Then and only them will it make sense. Right now it is just naked picture taking for pleasure cause you are not stopping anything

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 10:12 AM

Olddude I don't know what airports you are flying out of but unless, pulp novels, glossy magazines, 4 dollar cinnamon buns and 5 dollar coffees are weapons that can take down a plane, the measures do provide some safety at the one's I have flown through.

I have to hand it to Al Qaeda though, first the shoe bomber, then the crotch bomber, they are making it less and less pleasant to fly.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 10:46 AM

Jack it is an illusion if you think that is all that is there. It is a sea of weapons for someone who was trained to see them ... sadly .. that is why we need security at the plane not at the entrance

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 12:41 PM

Blimey, having been handled by the urologist with a flexible cystoscopy about 40 times in my lifetime a TSA is chicken feed.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:02 PM

Regarding the true amount of incredible detail the Air Port topical scanners produce: It seems there is a recent effort to make people believe that there is no detail or even a discernable image made by scanners. Recently submitting examples of blurred blob like X ray scan images in many U tube additions are BS.

To try to fool people and blatently lie is the standard way people and authorities deal with issues. Do not be fooled by the recent blizzard of phoney blurry images by airport X Ray machines.\It is BS

Fooling 20% of the people all the time is somthing you can count on.
Not getting fooled is hard work but it does pay off over time.

The only controversy on this new police policy is that of

"It is reasonable!"

or

"I feel it it is unreasonable"


To the 'Its reasonable; crowd:

After you watch a you tube video of the anguish of a 3 1/2 year old girl being searched in all her private areas while being held by her father. She struggles between these two large men who are virtually molesting her in front of a crowd of people. This is not the kind of protest a child makes when vaccinated, this will obviously be a long lasting memory for her. I could see her feelings of fear and betrayal.

Maybe then you may begin to see the long reaching conflicts regarding issues of trust, betrayal and safety this girl experiences while her father aids in the invasion of every crevice in her body. At least I would hope you have the humanity and insight to understand and project how her feelings will be affected into the future.

I earlier mentioned hypothetical issues in which the child issue was but one of many. Perhaps explicit images will be more meaningful than a mere list of possible scenarios that were not given a second thought.




To the 'it's unreasonable' crowd:

The Supreme Court should be able to settle this debate, however it is probably not sympathetic to your sensibilities since our particularly conservative court has ruled this decade that it is reasonable to stop passenger vehicles and undertake searches and seizures of occupants and property based on the observation by the officer.

You might consider re-educating children to the ins and outs of searches as well as yourselves to the changes in society and Constitutional protections and just get used to it. Overall its not as uncomfortable as having the common cold.





If there is a middle ground on this issue it would be good to put it in place ASAP. The SHOE BOMBER has us taking off our shoes, The SHAMPOO BOMBER so we lost our toiletries and the UNDERWEAR BOMBER has us looking in underwear. There was a RECTUM BOMBER (no joke) who blew himself up in Saudi Arabia, which is part of the reason why the X raying of passengers has been increased. If people opt for the pat down it defeats the purpose of finding the next Rectal Bomber.

OK an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Are we not already into the tons of prevention?

How far is too far?
As far as any terrorist wants us to go?

IF SO, there are many new things to give up... (hypothetically)

The Tampon/maxipad Bomber
The Trojan bomber
The "vinyl" suitcase bomber.
The "cloth" suitcase bomber.
The skis bomber.
The Book Bomber.
The Kindle bomber.
The laptop (that still appeared to turn on) bomber
The binky bomber
The Elmo bomber.
The dentures bomber
The prosthetic limb bomber.
The Colostomy bag bomber
The catheter urine bomber
The key chain flashlight bomber.
The key chain bomber.
The violin, trumpet, guitar...bomber.
The cheese bomber
The brazier bomber
The Capt. Sullenberger bomber (yep he has to get X rayed too!)
The thin air bomber
The psychological bomber ...opps... that would be all of them










PS There is a dial on the scanner that does remove detail. There is also a dial to adjust the amount of radiation. There is a more powerful version of this scanner which can look into wood framed homes with great detail, but these X ray machines are mounted in mid sized vans and trucks.

Yes the manufacturer claims there is no physical harm from their enormous X ray machines, especially when compared to the harm a dirty bomb would do.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: bobad
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:09 PM

There's always someone looking to make a buck: Flying Pasties.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:30 PM

I thought of those pads this morning!?






In the future security will have reached its zenith.

Here is a possible exchange with an older person who has not flown in some time..

Lady...
"Does that mean I will see other passengers naked?".

TSA
"NO maam no one will see you naked except for our highly trained professional staff.

Lady
"When am I going to be knocked out?"

TSA
"You will have been anesthetized for 20 minutes prior to take off and not notice a thing as you are loaded into one of the bomb proof steel tubes, along with 20 other passengers."

Lady
"My ticket says something about showers?! Why do we have to submit to showers at the end of the flight?"

TSA
"Since you will have been given a laxative to elimate any intestinal bomb threats any residue of yours or others will be cleaned via the shower conveyor belt"

Lady
"When will I be awakened?

TSA
"As soon as you are re united with your luggage, or in the case of lost luggage, within 3 weeks."

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:33 PM

PS

TSA
"Oh lady, we need to tape your mouth shut now"

Lady
"Why?"

TSA
You don't want anything getting in your mouth once you are placed in the flight tube"

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 01:35 PM

They cavity search three year old children? That is sickening. Babies too?

Subject: BS: Airline 'Security'--Whoo-hoo!
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:06 PM

Apologies if a similar thread has already been started; I could not find it.


Things to say at the security gate x-rays/pat-down:

"Hey, big boy. Looking's free. But if you touch me, it'll be $50."

"Hey, does this look like an airport bathroom?!!" (Remember erstwhile Senator Larry Craig.)

"You don't touch my naughty bits without giving me your phone number. (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.)"

"Look, sister. You don't float my boat, and my wife (or significant other) is the only one that touches me there."

{Passenger says while proceeding to take off ALL his/her clothes,} "Let me make it easier for you. Besides, don't you know those x-rays cause cancer?"

"You may look at me if Janet Paletano (Homeland Security Secretary) submits to a free look right here with me. For good measure, President Obama and 'W,' too"

"If you touch me, please do it slowly; I take a while to get off."

"Do you come here often?/What time do you get off?" (Oooo, double pun/double word score!)

"Funny, you don't look gay-ish."

"Please smile and face the camera my friend is holding so you will look good on Youtube."

"Can I have your job? It looks like much more fun than saying, 'Would you like fries with that?'"

"Please feel me to your satisfaction. I am glad to do my part saving America from unscanned cargo and hacker intrusion into the American infrastructure."

"Please do a thorough job. There are only three gazillion other passengers waiting for their turn. Lookit all of them smiling!"

"If I like it, will you come on the flight with me and pick up where we left off? It is a l-o-n-g flight, and the flight attendants just don't 'serve' like they used to."

"If I like it, will you come on the flight with me and pick up where we left off? It is a l-o-n-g flight, and I'll need some on-flight entertainment since they don't give out drinks anymore."

"I already did my bit for American security by voting Republican and being unemployed. Let me through."

"I'm looking forward to your soft touch. {Winks.} Ever since I got AIDS, noone else will touch me."

"Please give me whatever you find 'in there.' I lost something, and I can't even remember what it was."

"Please let my friend take a picture of the x-ray, so I can post it on my Facebook page. Oh, and I'll need to post your full name, too, so everyone knows that I am not promiscuous."

"Please let my friend take a picture of the x-ray. Oh, and I'll need your full name, too. I am a teacher, and I want to show my students the face of excessive government control of my life and creeping totalitarianism."

And on and on it goes. With deepest heartfelt sympathy for my son, who will have to go through this ritual privacy invasion "security theater" in a few days.

Subject: RE: BS: Airline 'Security'--Whoo-hoo!
From: Ebbie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:39 PM

"Janet Paletano"?

The person would make more points with me if they got her name right. It is Janet Napolitano. I suspect the writer does not follow US politics.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 02:41 PM

...and the would be terrorists are just laughing at the money being spent as they plan their train or tunnel attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 03:29 PM

Saul, LOL ... I will say hi to him since I am flying this weekend myself. After my posts I better show up 4 hours ahead for my strip search

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 04:01 PM

So I misspeelt hir naame. Does that mean that my post has no value? And, um, how do you KNOW I don't follow politics? Just wondering...(BTW, from what I remember of some of your posts, we are on the same side of many issues, Ebbie.)

Saul
Sane, and doing my part to keep fear alive.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 04:30 PM

A CBS News poll released Tuesday also showed that a large majority of Americans agree with him. Only 15 percent of respondents said they were opposed to the use of body scanners, with four out of five saying they're in favor."

If they're told that's the only way to keep them safe, they will go along with it. But Israel has shown it's not. How many people know about Israel's methods? Do you think if more people knew, they'd be less likely to agree to be subjected to the invasive practices?

Shoot, why not just have everybody strip to the buff. The world is full of dicks and c**ts, right? What logic.

Olddude I don't know what airports you are flying out of but unless, pulp novels, glossy magazines, 4 dollar cinnamon buns and 5 dollar coffees are weapons that can take down a plane, the measures do provide some safety at the one's I have flown through.

The duty free shop is inside the security zone. You could do a lot of damage with a 750 ml bottle.

Yes the manufacturer calims there is no physical harm from their enormous X ray machines

Of course, they would.

-----

Ooooh, okay, touch me again, going the other way. Good, now back. Good, now the other way. Good....

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 05:51 PM

In several of the videos, it looks like there's some kind of stem-thingy coming up from the floor (or down from the person?!)

What is that?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 05:59 PM

I didn't see that, the ones I been through have foot pads labeled on the floor where you put your feet, you then raise you hands high above your head. I guess that is so they can get a really good look at the young girls hooters ...

I think what you maybe seeing is the markings for where you feet go

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 06:13 PM

Not to worry, mouse... FOX is all over these numbers and vows to make up some phoney stories and get those numbers down to at least 50/50 in 6 months... Then Obama will will be branded a sex-offender by FOX and the beat goes on...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 06:27 PM

Dan,
You can see the thing I'm talking about at :21

here's one

maybe it's something about 'models' and not scans of real people?
I'm sure there would be outraged stories about it if the thing was some sort of Insertion Spindle (which is what it sort of looks like to me)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:02 PM

Melissa
if you are talking the bar on the right hand side that is a thermal scan ... body heat will be red or bright yellow depending on the distance but something carried like a firearm or knife of any type will only reflect heat and will show up as a cooler color. Apparently the scanners also do thermal.

I will use one for finding bigfoot I will ... a Flir Thermal so if the critter is hiding in the brush I will see him

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Melissa
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:17 PM

I'm talking about the thing that looks like a stick within the picture..from the person's crotch to the floor (in non-colorful scans) The one at :21 (or close to then) in the link I just put has a lady in a lavender shirt with a black stripe. I don't see a bar along the right side in that one.
If it was a heat thing making the stick show up, it seems like there should be some from the armpits too (maybe?)


A Thermal Bigfoot Seeker will help your search a LOT!
Toting one of those along is a good idea.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 07:57 PM

It seems to be about little foot to a ceratin extent.... or non extent... as the case may be.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:11 PM

Okay, Sister....

Folks had better get used to the fact that there is NO real security and never has been.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 08:52 PM

Well, screw it...

Lets just require that everyone fly nude??? That's right... Heck with takin' yer belt off and the keys outta yer pocket... Just give everyone a contractors bag and tell 'um to "fill it up"...

That put an end to this silliness...

Might make flyin' more fun, too...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 17 Nov 10 - 11:08 PM

A CBS News poll released Tuesday also showed that a large majority of Americans agree with him. Only 15 percent of respondents said they were opposed to the use of body scanners, with four out of five saying they're in favor.

Thoughtcrime has to be fought by the citizens themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 02:44 AM

I could almost go along with this if they only groped Mexican-looking people who refused to show their immigration papers.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 10:20 AM

Pillows $5 extra
blankets $5 extra
oversize overweight luggage up to $50 extra
TSA happy endings $20 extra.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 10:35 AM

Janet Napolitano?

Genital Apolitano is the name the right wing radio jocks use.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Stu
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 10:54 AM

If someone gets their yah-yah's looking at my meat and two veg on a body scanner monitor then good luck to them. I'd rather be scanned and groped around the cods along with everyone else than run into trouble in mid-air.

In our flight from the UK to Chicago earlier this year it was the poor lady who, er, defecated in her seat mid-flight that took our mind off the problem. That and the huge thunderstom that closed O'Hare. And landing at Milwaukee as we were running out of fuel. All the while with the smell. Probably the only people who wanted to get off the plane more than us were the unfortunate lady and her husband.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 11:25 AM

You were obviously browned off with that flight then Sugarfoot Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:06 PM

You would gladly submit to _______procedure IF it meant you would then avoid any _______.



The problem with that IF is

TSA has never (not even once) prevented any nefarious act aboard an airplane. And it never will... says Isreali head of airline security.
The intelligent methods they use are nearly opposite the TSA.

The man you know who stands to profit handsomely from the X ray scanners is Chertof the former head of FEMA under W Bush. Chertof is an investor and not an expert on security.

The heads of our airline TSA security are not trained professionals in the field. One was a former railraod executive and the other was a a corporate executive in charge of intra business sales.

Guess what

None of the airplane food service people or packages, first class mail, luggage handlers, fuel technicians and ground support staff are scanned. Applaud crotch searches all you want but...

If you actually cared or were really gung ho about security you might want something done about the people who are not checked and are messing with your planes day in day out all year long.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:17 PM

It is far worse than that Donuel, that is why I said it does nothing to prevent any bad situation. I will however give someone some facial recognition database and full body identification that they are "Not Saving" cause that is the only reason for doing so because it prevents nothing ... Or of course it could be done just to line someones pockets with tax dollar ...

It is kinda like trying to prevent drunk driving by breaking up moonshine stills and only doing that... oh yea, they also sell it in the stores and bars but we will stop drunks from driving by taking away "shine" ... and the people say "good idea" now no more drunks on the road .. horray .. I am now safe

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:26 PM

But Don we are well protected against injury by the 88 year old lady's dead husbands wedding ring we are ...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:33 PM

And don't get me started on our air Marshalls. Those guys are the best of the best and have my respect. But they put them on a plane and should just put a sign on them saying here I am ... they wouldn't last 10 minutes doing covert .... I can pick them out in 4 seconds and actually talked with one going to San Diego about football and guns ...

the rules they put on those guys are a disgrace

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 12:33 PM

I guess so


I would gladly fly without security






Why? the likelyhood is 1000 less of dieing from a terrorist bomb than dieing from lightning. On a plane you are even protected FROM lightning.

what are everyday odds?

If you go to a Mall food court, the odds of you eating pathogenic food due to poor handling or insect or pest contamination is 7 out of ten in favor of pathogenic food.

Flying without security is a whole lot safer than food court mall resaurants. (As far as the peanuts aboard the plane go, remember the Georgia peanut factory full of rat shit bat shit and even human shit?) nuff said

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 02:00 PM

Genital Apolitano is the name the right wing radio jocks use.

Figures.

If someone gets their yah-yah's looking at my meat and two veg on a body scanner monitor then good luck to them. I'd rather be scanned and groped around the cods along with everyone else than run into trouble in mid-air.

1. Yes but neither is necessary in Israel and they have had no incidents since 2002, and that was when a person didn't even realize they had a gun until. 2. Since it's clearly not necessary why should American citizens be subject to it? That makes it unreasonable and against the 4th Amendment. Whether or not you yourself don't mind.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 02:40 PM

Schwarzenegger started all this stuff with them there movies a his. Let's get him.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 02:57 PM

The two favorite mob phrases

1 Get'em
2 Kill'em

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 03:15 PM

Sometimes I must fly; but I never have to go out and get hit by lightening. I also don't have to eat raw foods, which I don't,
. In other words, there are risks which I have to take, otherwise there are some that I don't have to take. I get to choose.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 03:22 PM

Sometimes I must fly; but I never have to go out and get hit by lightening. I also don't have to eat raw foods, which I don't,
. In other words, there are risks which I have to take, otherwise there are some that I don't have to take. I get to choose.

If you have to fly, then you don't get to choose not to. By definition.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 03:55 PM

"Folks had better get used to the fact that there is NO real security and never has been."

Right on, Rapparee. ;-) Life is somewhat dangerous, and always has been. The most dangerous thing in normal life is driving your car. The second most dangerous thing is eating grocery and restaurant food...and/or visiting your doctor and taking the drugs or treatment he prescribes for you.

Where is Homeland Security when it comes to these everpresent dangers which kill so many more people than the terrorists do????? ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 04:13 PM

I'm a retired federal investigator. I did security clearance investigations - so, for the most part, I was investigating nice people who knew they were being investigated. As is usually the case in government investigations, we did our best to protect the privacy of the people were investigating, and we tried hard not to violate their legal and constitutional rights. For 25 years, I did my work in workplaces all over California, and in many places in the U.S. I had a good chance to observe work conditions and work ethics in a wide variety of workplaces. There's no rule that governs it all - some workplaces are crappy, some are in the middle, and some are excellent. I saw some federal workplaces where the attitude of employees was horrible, and some where federal employees did work of amazing quality with a wonderful attitude. I take it personally when Tea Party people and others make broad statements about the incompetence and poor attitude of federal employees. In general, I've found that federal employees are a pretty good lot, and most work pretty hard to serve the public. I worked hard to serve the public for 25 years, and I took great pride in the quality of my work.

I was screwed privatized out of my federal job by the Clinton-Core administration. The Reagan administration tried to privatize us, but failed. I thought privatization was something conservatives did, and I was dismayed to find it was Democrats who ultimately did us in. Believe me, Bill Clinton and Al Gore were not Friends of Labor.

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is a new federal agency established under the Bush administration, to replace companies that had done security inspection on contract. The Bush administration said that the job could be done better by federal employees with stable employment and benefits and a living wage, than it could be done by contract employees paid the minimum age. This turnabout gave me wicked pleasure. And I think the Bush Administration was right in this instance - in general, TSA has done a pretty good job on a near-impossible task. For the most part, the TSA inspectors have a good attitude, and they treat the public with respect and often a nice touch of humor.

I fly a lot, which means I go through the TSA checkpoints quite often. My worst experience with airport security was in May, 2002, when I was flying home with my daughter after she was released from the hospital after a terrible accident. She was in a wheelchair, and she had a metal supporting brace screwed into her forearm, and all sorts of metal reinforcement hardware within her shattered body. On top of that, she was in a lot of pain - but because of all her metal hardware, she had to have a very thorough scan. Seems to me there should have been exceptions for medical situations. Maybe there are now - this was right after 9/11, and TSA was a brand-new agency that had been operating for only weeks.

But ever since, my experience with TSA has been quite good. The lines move quickly, and the inspectors are friendly and respectful. Some are downright entertaining, and seem to go out of their way to make the TSA line a pleasant experience. I'm sure the conspiracy theorists and Tea Party ideologues can bring up all sorts of anecdotal information to "prove" how horrible and invasive the TSA inspectors are. I'm sure many of those anecdotes are true - but such incidents are rare. For the most part, it seems to me that TSA does a pretty good job.

Many of the TSA inspectors are minorities or come from poor economic backgrounds. I wonder if there isn't a bit of bigotry and elitism on the part of those who are so critical of TSA inspectors.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: JennieG
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 05:21 PM

Joe, I don't know about there being exceptions for medical circumstances. Last year we visited our son in Canada, and had to change planes at LAX coming and going. While in Canada I suffered (and how!) a fall, broke my left arm and sprained my right wrist. My broken arm was put in a slab cast which is rigid plaster along the top and bottom length of my arm but not at the sides, the whole thing wrapped in firm bandages. When going through security at LAX coming home, I was asked to remover the bandages and cast - "I can't, it's broken", I replied. I had doctors' reports with me and was prepared to take it further if necessary, but my reply was accepted. However I had to remove and replace my jacket although it had no metal fastenings, and of course my shoes (slip-ons, not laced), with no help - not easy without a functioning wrist! The drug detecting tape was rubbed along the edges of my plaster cast and I chose to be patted down rather than go through the body scanner, because I had x-rays when I broke my arm and faced the prospect of more as it healed so I didn't want any unnecessary radiation. The treatment I received was firm, not rude but not particularly friendly either.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 06:17 PM

Joe
I have had several TSA that were quite nice. One of them in a small airport actually went next door bought me a coke and sent it through the scanner so I didn't have to leave the secure area (my flight was delayed and I wanted a coke) so I handed him the money. Others were very helpful and kind ... one flavor doesn't fit all for sure. But the ones that were bad I can truthfully tell you were very bad and I won't forget it. I am not labeling all, that is wrong but we need to weed out those that are bad otherwise we end up like the young girl situation.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 06:31 PM

I average 2.5 weeks between flights for the last 5 years or so. Here would be my breakdown.

5% exceptional with the public
90% doing there job, not nice nor mean just doing their job

5% terrible should not be hired to do anything close to work involving the public.

That is my real time research.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 18 Nov 10 - 06:44 PM

and agents that don't do their job right, saying it is because they are minorities and we are bigots does great injustice to both minority people,homeland security, and the traveling taxpayer. That is complete shit. It has nothing to do with race, people do their jobs, others do not do their jobs. Lets get rid of the bad people and keep and hire the good people. I think a 5% failure rate on hiring is too high to have IMO. I would not accept it in my company or expect it in any government agency under that reasoning. The guys that were acting up with the young girl by the way were not minority people FYI

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 03:20 AM

Mixed feelings about scanners



At first I thought conservative weirdos like Laura Ingals and Glen Beck felt the way I do about the scanners and gropings

but then Glen said
"The real reason that the scanners and hand searchs of private parts is so protests will become so vocal that it will cause Obama to suspend the pat downs and then we get attacked by terrorists so Obama will turn around and say "if it weren't for the protesters, people would not have died. You must stop your protests.

BEck has all the signs of a schizophrenic thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 12:51 PM

TSA to investigate body scan resister

Oceanside man took a stand against security, went viral

By Robert J. Hawkins

Monday, November 15, 2010 at 7:59 p.m.



The Transportation Security Administration has opened an investigation targeting John Tyner, the Oceanside man who left Lindbergh Field under duress on Saturday morning after refusing to undertake a full body scan.

Tyner recorded the half-hour long encounter on his cell phone and later posted it to his personal blog, along with an extensive account of the incident. The blog went viral, attracting hundreds of thousands of readers and thousands of comments.

Michael J. Aguilar, chief of the TSA office in San Diego, called a news conference at the airport Monday afternoon to announce the probe. He said the investigation could lead to prosecution and civil penalties of up to $11,000.

TSA agents had told Tyner on Saturday that he could be fined up to $10,000.

"That's the old fine," Aguilar said. "It has been increased."

Tyner's stand tapped into an undercurrent of resentment toward the TSA and how security checks are conducted at the nation's airports. Those commenting about Tyner's experience at SignOnSanDiego.com told their own stories of personal humiliations and invasive body searches.

TSA chief John Pistole was grilled about Tyner's case Monday on CNN.

"The bottom line is, if somebody doesn't go through proper security screening, they're not going to go on the flight," Pistole said.

Other news websites, from gri.pe to Yahoo! News to Drudge Report, have consumed Tyner's tale and recirculated it to millions of readers. On Monday, Tyner spent the entire day fielding interviews from television, radio and news agencies.

Tyner, 31, was on his way to South Dakota on Saturday to go pheasant hunting. He was chosen for a full-body scan and opted out because he thought it was invasive. He was then informed that he would be subjected to a body search. He told the TSA agent, ""You touch my junk and I'm going to have you arrested."

Tyner likened the proposed search procedure to a "sexual assault."

When he tried to assert his rights, Tyner was told by a TSA supervisor on tape, "By buying your ticket you gave up a lot of rights."

Aguilar says that Tyner was facing nothing more than the traditional pat-down that TSA has used for some time, and not a more aggressive body search in effect since late October.

In the end, security escorted Tyner out of the airport, after American Airlines refunded his ticket.

According to Aguilar, Tyner is under investigation for leaving the security area without permission. That's prohibited, among other reasons, to prevent potential terrorists from entering security, gaining information, and leaving.

Since Saturday, Tyner's story has added fuel to the Opt Out Day movement which is calling on air travelers to choose not to undergo the full-body scans on Nov. 24, the day before Thanksgiving and traditionally one of the year's top travel days.

Since the rollout of the imaging scanners there has been controversy over the quality of the images, which show limited details of a person's entire body, and the possible saving of the images – something TSA has denied is possible.

The level of exposure to radiation has also been an issue for many.

Aguilar cautioned against the scanner boycott. He said he is aware of a backlash.

"Let me paraphrase our new administrator, John Pistole," said Aguilar. "It really is irresponsible to encourage anyone to opt out of a technology that is there in place specifically to protect the public."

In late October, TSA added another layer of security, the resolution pat-down, which requires TSA agents to grasp the body of the subject more firmly when running hands over limbs and also requires probing up to the genital areas of the body.

Aguilar said that once a passenger enters the security area, there is a legal obligation to follow through with the process.

While a passenger can, like Tyner, ask to opt-out of the full body scan, they must walk through the traditional metal scanner and then, at the discretion of the TSA, undergo a pat-down search.

Aguilar said the aggressive body search is not designed as an inducement for passengers to opt into the full body scan. Aguilar said that since the resolution pat-downs began, there have been only four in San Diego.

And even though there are 10 full-body scanners stationed throughout San Diego's airport, it is rare to see more than one in operation in a security area. The TSA staff does not yet have enough trained people to operate them, Aguilar said.

Only about 4 percent of San Diego's passengers undergo the full body scan at this point, Aguilar said.





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Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 02:35 PM

BEck has all the signs of a schizophrenic thinking.

Do do that he'd have to have signs of thinking.

As for getting rid of the bad eggs -- the problem isn't people not doing their jobs, or not doing them right. The problem is the job they are being asked to do. We (who are speaking up about this) deny it's necessary and affirm that it is unconstitutional.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 02:47 PM

There is truth in what you say mouse
As for getting rid of the bad eggs -- the problem isn't people not doing their jobs, or not doing them right. The problem is the job they are being asked to do. We (who are speaking up about this) deny it's necessary and affirm that it is unconstitutional.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 02:52 PM

Explosives that are spun into micro fibers that resemple human hair that can be easily afixed to skin or scalp are causing a stir among TSA officials.
Some believe TSA must be proactive and enforce Security precaution 42A now, while others feel that an attempted use of such weapons should be demonstrated to be an actual threat first.

Security precaution 42A will require the shaving of all facial cranial, armpit and pubic hair prior to taking the flight and may incur an additional $50 fee for highly trained TSA experts to shave passengers at the terminal.

The TSA Czar assures the public that all procedures will be done by same sex TSA employees who have undergone an extensive 4 hour seminar on shaving techiniques and waxing. He does caution however that buying a ticket will abbrogate certain rights including having to accept the use of used razors and incidental cuts, infections and/or discomfort.

Should anything surprise you anymore?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 03:02 PM

edit
Explosives that can be spun into micro fibers have been found to resemble human hair. If these microfibers are easily afixed to skin or scalp with a high tech adhesive, this new security threat presents a clear and present danger to the flying public and flight crews. This is causing a stir among...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 03:08 PM

What about the college guy that lights a fart?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 03:18 PM

Good one, Donuel :)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM

The implanted artificial testicles bomber

Why didn't we see this coming sooner?

Since they feel like the real thing, were gonna hafta X ray the shit out of anyone with suspicious testicles including people like Hillary, Coulter, Ingram, Albright, Reno...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 01:11 AM

TSA Agent: Um, yes, ma'am, I guess it was good for me, too. No, ma'am, you can't have a cigarette. The smoking area is outside the secured area and it will cost you $10,000 to go back. Okay, ma'am, I'll do it again.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,Seth from Olympia
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 03:06 AM

I remember flying before 9-11 and thinking about the minimum wage contracted employess who were responsible for airline security and how easy it would be to compromise that system-so in that sense I'm glad that the current TSA staffers have some training and that somebody ( I hope) is doing a good security check on them before they are on the line (though, as line workers everywhere, I'm sure they are at the bottom of the organization for pay and benefits) Anyway, all this makes me appreciate bus travel-cheap, boring,uncomfortable at best, no security at all from my experience- somebody once said if you don't think there is a class system in this country, drop by your local airport and then your local bus station-anyway nobody cares what happens to bus riders, so terrorists, TSA and everyone else pretty much let you be and if one of your fellow passengers decides to cut off your head and eat it on your trans-Canada ride, that's just life on the road...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 04:22 AM

TSA Bans Ink & Toner Cartridges From Flights. Next On The Ban List: People.


Lone TSA Twitter Account Fights Entire Internet

Sigh ...

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 09:48 AM

Cancer survivor flight attendant who submitted to the spatter scan one her way to work, was forced to submit to physical search and more humiliating treatment.

her story here

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Louie Roy
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 11:00 AM

Far fetched but possible What would security do if some person came with a trench coat on and took it off and spread there legs put their arms above their head and said I want to make this easy for you and they were completely naked would they arrest them for indecent exposure or would they throw them in jail for making fun of the government

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 11:18 AM

Officials are frankly shocked that the normally cowering cowardly sheeple would even dare to object. THe current rethink of the new TSA policies will now reverse its decision regarding pilots. Pilots may now opt out of the scanners and probes without losing their jobs.

Gretchen on FOX friends said that her pat down did not include her entire crotch area. Her voice however actually seemed to voice a bit of disappointment.

As for the poor unfortunate souls who are either over 6 years old, have a prosthetic or relies on an adult diaper, there will be hummiliations that will continue to be dismissed as being unavoidable.


I think the public is PISSED.
In fact if that is what people did on the scanners and on the people grabbing their genitals, I think it would be entirely appropriate.

A whole new protest would be added to the vernacular.
A Piss IN.
or a piss on, depending upon your POV

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: olddude
Date: 20 Nov 10 - 11:22 AM

My friend Louie is absolutely correct I think

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 07:05 AM

Already a song about it

Pat Me Down

I love this guy.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 07:27 AM

I said I don't have to fly. The only thing I have to do is die. In everything else, I have a choice.

If I want to fly I will go through their damned scanner and I won't be in the least paranoid about it. I don't have anything that every man on earth doesn't have. BFD.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 08:00 AM

Well, seein' as folks didn't like my "fly nude" idea I've come up with another idea:

Get better lookin' TSAers... I mean, if yer5 gonna get groped then having someone of the opposite sex that looks good would probably be good fir the industry... Heck, might increase business... Of course you'd need some attractive gay-gropers, too... I mean, everyone would be happy, right???

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: frogprince
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 01:06 PM

Bobert, you're reminding me of years ago when I went in for a little "ectomy" snipping. I was told in advance that I would get shaved, but assured that it would be done by a male. I was seriously tempted to ask if that was really supposed to make me feel better.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 02:42 PM

Those poor people. Those who have to do it, and those who have to have it done. Can't imagine it's any fun at all 99.99% of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: kendall
Date: 21 Nov 10 - 03:06 PM

As the Brits would say, "Mustn't grumble."

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 10 - 08:30 PM

John Boehner is now exempt from scanning and probing.
Kids younger than 12 are now exempt.
Pilots are now exempt.

Cancer survivors are not so lucky. Articial bladders are being probed spilled and scrutinized at gun point as if an underwear bomber was finally found. A man with sperm duct aneurisms was squeezed to the point of getting an internal rupture even after the passenger warned security. "They seemed to become more aggresive after I warned them of my condition" said the hapless passenger.

None of this is well thought out in our attempt to catch the next underwear bomber.
Two and a half Billion dollars was paid for the scanners. The pat down policy is to encourage universal use of the new X ray machines.

In an Orwellian attempt to call the X ray machines anything but X ray seems to have been a success. No one here other myself have called these machines by the radiation they emit.

Brits can say "mustnt grumble" but red blooded Americans are bred with the ideal of liberation and have proudly grumbled for 300 years.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 12:58 AM

One word: prosthetic genitals.

They already make "camel toes" falsies for women (google camel toe cup if you dare), and you can get balls for your pickup truck, so why not for your jockstrap? If we all pack heat in our drawers it'll throw 'em off!

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: beardedbruce
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 11:28 AM

'We hate obese passengers and people with personal hygiene issues:' Now 'abused' TSA staff vent their anger at patdown searches
By Daily Mail Reporter

Last updated at 4:03 PM on 23rd November 2010

Staff complain about abuse while carrying out searches
Passengers braced for huge Thanksgiving delays
Traveller reveals how he dodged patdown search
Furious security staff have hit back at pat down searches in place across America, claiming that they hated dealing with obese travellers and those with personal hygiene problems.
There has already been a angry passenger backlash against the measures introduced by the Transportation Security Administration (TSA).
But after being contacted by a travel blog, 17 staff have also expressed their disgust after the policy was put in place last month.
The staff said that they hated having to carry out the body searches, with one claiming that it was worse for him than the passenger.

'It is not comfortable to come to work knowing full well that my hands will be feeling another man's private parts, their butt, their inner thigh,' one told the BoardingArea blog.
'Even worse is having to try and feel inside the flab rolls of obese passengers and we seem to get a lot of obese passengers!'
Another said he had a huge problem dealing with a 'large number of passengers... daily that have a problem understanding what personal hygieneFur is.'
All the staff said that they had experienced a high level of personal abuse while carrying out the pat-downs.
'Being a TSO means often being verbally abused, you let the comments roll off and check the next person,' one said.

'However, when a woman refuses the scanner then comes to me and tells me that she feels like I am molesting her, that is beyond verbal abuse.
'I asked the woman if she thought I like touching other women all day and she told me that I probably did or I wouldn't be with the TSA.

'I just want to tell these people that I feel disgusted feeling other peoples private parts, but I cannot because I am a professional.'
Angry passengers have subjected TSA officers to verbal abuse and even physical threats.
The American Federation of Government Employee, the union which represents officers, said a TSO was punched by a passenger in Indianapolis.
Union President John Gage called for more information on the searches including leaflets for passengers.
He said: 'TSA must act now — before the Thanksgiving rush — to ensure that TSOs are not being left to fend for themselves.'

Huge queues: Passengers move in line for the checks at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport in Atlanta
Meanwhile, one patient traveller has proved it is possible to bypass the high-level security measures in place at all airports, but only if you have time on your hands.
Blogger Matt Kernan recorded his epic experience as he returned to North Kentucky International Airport in Cincinnati from Paris on Sunday.
Exasperated at being told to prepare for a body scan and with time on his hands, the determined businessman decided to make a stand - with remarkable results.
Writing on his website noblasters.com, he said: 'I certainly don't enjoy being treated like a terrorist in my own country, but I'm also not a die-hard constitutional rights advocate.

'However, for some reason, I was irked.'

'Maybe it was the video of the three-year old getting molested, maybe it was the sexual assault victim having to cry her way through getting groped, maybe it was the father watching teenage TSA officers joke about his attractive daughter.

'Whatever it was, this issue didn't sit right with me. We shouldn't be required to do this simply to get into our own country.'
As a result, Mr Kernan informed staff he did not want to go through the infamous Backscatter imaging machine.
He was told he would have to undergo an invasive pat-down search, but again politely told staff that he would consider any contact with his genital areas as assault.
After being told that the two options were TSA policy, he replied: ' I disagree with the policy, and I think that it is unconstitutional.

No exemptions: Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa goes through an Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) full-body scanner at the city's airport
'As a US citizen, I have the right to move freely within my country as long as I can demonstrate proof of citizenship and have demonstrated no reasonable cause to be detained.'
As the situation escalated further airport police were called and more senior TSA officials but Mr Kernan refused to back down, remaining calm throughout.
Eventually causing a stand-off between police and TSA officers over who should resolve the situation, Mr Kernan was told by a superviser: 'Here's what we're going to do. I'm going to escort you out of the terminal to the public area.

'You are to stay with me at all times. Do you understand?'
He was then escorted by the police and no less than 13 TSA officer through security without a hand laid on him.
He said: 'And then came the most ridiculous scene of which I've ever been a part.

'I gather my things – jacket, scarf, hat, briefcase, chocolates.
'We walk over to the staff entrance and he scans his badge to let me through. We walk down the long hallway that led back to the baggage claim area. We skip the escalators and moving walkways.'
He was then waved away by annoyed officers and said: 'In order to enter the US, I was never touched, I was never "Backscatted," and I was never metal detected.

'In the end, it took 2.5 hours, but I proved that it is possible. I'm looking forward to my next flight on Wednesday.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1332307/Now-abused-TSA-staff-vent-anger-security-patdown-searches.html#ixzz167iz5xC4

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: JennieG
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 04:38 PM

It's very well for some of you to say "if you don't like it then don't fly", but for those of us who have to cross an ocean to visit family that's not always an option. The alternative is a long swim or very long boat ride, now that might not be so bad.

But have all these scans, gropes and searches made flying any safer? Can any of you honestly say you feel safer now than you did a few years ago? It has made no difference to how I see flying as a safe way to travel. If we fly to Canada to visit our son again I would rather not go via USA. Unfortunately not doing so would make our trip more expensive (it costs a lot more to fly from Sydney, Oz to Toronto, Canada via Vancouver than via Los Angeles, and now that we are retired we don't have an endless supply of money) so we may have to choose that option. It would be with great reluctance though.

America claims that tourist numbers to their shores have dropped off, is it any wonder when visitors are treated with such disdain? No one wants to go where they don't feel welcome. I certainly don't want to visit the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Genie
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 05:32 PM

Not only do the virtual strip search machines probably pose a real risk of skin cancer for frequent flyers and really violate the privacy of passengers and the religion of many, but the enhanced "pat downs" pose some other potentially very serious risks if/since the TSA agents do not change gloves after handling the clothes, body, and hair of one passenger and then repeating the process on another.   The ACLU is trying to fight back against this health hazard.

Many diseases, parasites, etc., can be passed from one person to another by means of the vinyl gloves that the TSA uses to protect THEMSELVES.   Fungi, head lice, dandruff, and some infectious diseases can be transmitted this way.   No passenger should be forced to choose between exposure to radiation concentrated on the skin (not to mention having an image made of their whole naked body AND FACE) and being touched and prodded by the same gloves that were used on another passenger.

Subject: TSA - expensive, intrusive, ineffective screening
From: Genie
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:06 PM

Oh, and polls showing that the majority of people in the US approve these measures mean nothing.
First, people who don't fly and don't have loved ones who do shouldn't be asked their opinion on this; they're not affected. Even people who fly once in a while and aren't at risk for skin cancer, aren't known to the TSA agents, aren't famous, aren't minors or parents of minors, etc., may find it all too easy to say, "Go ahead. Take a picture of me naked, feel me up in front of a bunch of people, whatever it takes."    But if you have a history of skin cancer and you fly a lot, going through the scanners may be against medical advice.   If you're a pilot or flight attendant who may be known by many of the TSA agents or if you're a famous person, having your naked body viewed by those people is a bigger deal than it would be for most of us.    If you're a minor, should a TSA agent be able to do things to you that would land them on the registered sex offender list and probably bring prison time if they weren't doing it in the name of "the war on terror?"   

And as long as the TSA isn't doing cavity searches, would-be suicide bombers can still smuggle enough explosive onto the plane to blow it up, even with the use of the scanners and the pat-downs. Then there's the unscreened cargo, etc.

I'd be happy to go back to the days when you could just walk through the airport -- or run, like OJ Simpson in the old commercial -- and get on a plane, carrying liquids in your carryon luggage, without having to arrive 1 to 2 hours early, take off your shoes, and be subjected to invasive physical searches.    Secure the cockpit doors, put at least one marshall on every high-capacity flight (jobs that can't be outsourced), check passengers' IDs, use some bomb-sniffing dogs, screen cargo, and do some Israel-type questioning of some adult passengers.   And then just accept the fact that nobody's really "safe" anywhere and you're at more risk on the highway or in many other places where people contract illness or are injured in accidents or by acts of violence.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:24 PM

I like Kendall's idea... Find a way to detonate and hidden explosives and detonate 'um when people are dumb enough to walk thru the detonator...

I am concerned, however, about the amount of press time this is getting compared to alot of real serious stuff that is going on... I mean, the press won't leave it alone...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 06:54 PM

Of course, the question remains: If these techniques were to find a bomb, then what? I'm not sure that a suicide bomber in the midst of hundreds of densely-packed folks in an security inspection area is any less of a danger than he would be in a plane.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Genie
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:48 PM

Bobert, I agree that the media may be covering this for the wrong reason (the "story du jour" phenomenon), but I'm glad they are spotlighting it and hope that spotlight will lead to some serious discussion and consideration of the real facts and issues and maybe bring about some changes.

I still think most of this is 'window dressing' and theatre designed to do two things: 1) make money for big corporations and 2) keep the public in a state of disproportionate and misplaced fear so that they (we) will eagerly forfeit our basic Constitutional rights.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Genie
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 08:51 PM

Nineteen suicide bombers could probably kill hundreds of people and do massive property damage by setting off a coordinated series of bombs at a shopping mall during the holidays.
Or other such scenarios.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:01 PM

Genie I also thought about the gloves passing bacteria. There are a few STDs that only need moisture to remain viable. Many diseases can be passed from soiled underwear. You could always use plastic underwear and wipe down with hand sanitizer later. Be carefull if it hits a sensitive area it will burn like hell.


To get into work by car the security staff always swabs the steering wheel and other parts of the car and trunk. The swab is used on multiple steering wheels passing what was on one steering wheel to the next. During flu season this is not appreciated. wiping down with hand sanitizer is all we can do.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 23 Nov 10 - 09:08 PM

Dick... good point.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:54 AM

Anyone remember Minnie Pearl? She was a comic on the old Hee Haw show and the Grand o'le Opry for years.

She said she was walking down a street when a man grabbed her and insisted that she give him her money. When she told him she didn't have any money, he searched her up and down. Finally he said "You don't have any money."
She said, "No, but if you do that again, I'll write you a check."

Now this is of course an exaggeration, but it's all a matter of attitude.
"Nothing is good or bad; thinking makes them so" (Shakespeare)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: frogprince
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 10:47 AM

I most certainly remember Minnie. Some of her obits referred to her having done material unsuitable for family viewing. I said, and still say, that at root she was a very classy woman with a healthy, frisky sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,999
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 01:04 PM

Went through the security point at a Canadian airport, domestic flight. I have an artificial hip that always sets off the detector. I say, ``I have an artificial hip.`` A guy comes and pats me down. Last time I said in a loud clear voice:``What gives here. It`s always some GUY patting me down. Why can`t I be patted down by one of the lovely gals behind that counter`` as I pointed to two ladies. They smiled and I looked at the fellow who said, ``Luck of the draw. Trust me.`` I laughed.

I think Canucks take it seriously, but they haven`t yet gotten psycho about it.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 02:19 PM

The Israelis think we are over reacting. They should know a thing or three about security.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 07:32 PM

There are no reports of any delays or psychos at US airports today.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Genie
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 08:39 PM

Kendall,
I can appreciate Ms. Pearl's perspective. But I say, "Feel me up as much as you need to. Just put on a clean pair of plastic gloves first, and don't leave my purse and laptop out there somewhere on the conveyor belt for someone to grab them while you're groping me."

Oh, and I'll add:
"Don't kid yourself that this is going to keep anyone who's really determined from blowing up the plane,"

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 10:18 PM

Subject: BS: TSA groping your junk.....

OH! Promises, Promises!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 01:57 PM

Think I will go with the getting groped thanks.

EU bans body scanners for cancer risk

Bit worrying the FDA has back pedaled on the safety of these scanners.

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 03:29 PM

From: GUEST,kendall - PM
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 02:19 PM

The Israelis think we are over reacting. They should know a thing or three about security.

____________________

Yes. using Israel's methods for dealing with minority populations would make the US as secure as they are.   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: gnu
Date: 21 Nov 11 - 04:34 PM

If everyone opted for the search would that force the airlines to pressure the governments to stop silly searches? Of course, that might then give rise to certain groups to clain profiling and discrimination... maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: TSA groping your junk
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 22 Nov 11 - 09:55 AM

All the terrible suffering and injustice in this world, and people fuss about stuff like this...

Grow up.