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BS: Hillary Clinton to resign?
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Subject: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 10 - 08:49 PM Just heard this from friends in Boston......any truth in the rumour? I always thought she would have a run, but supposed she would leave it a bit later.....hmmmm.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Dec 10 - 08:53 PM You're listening to the wishful thinking of tea party Republicans, I'm sure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:03 PM No, they are Scots living in Boston. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: katlaughing Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:08 PM Well, she and President Obama are still tops with people contacted for an opinion HERE. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:15 PM Well Kat, maybe the result of that poll could be said to make it more likely that she "jump ship", especially if she has decided to sprint for 2012. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:18 PM Hope folks dont call her a "Quitter" like Sarah :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:20 PM You wish people can call her a quitter like Sarah. Let's be clear, here. You didn't start this thread out of interest in Hillary, you started it as a way to start another political squabble. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:29 PM No, but it does tie in with my theory that taking Bill n' Hill on board was one of Mr Obama's biggest mistakes. I am just asking if this story I received from two Boston professionals with no axe to grind is true. I was only joking about the quitter, you Democrats are too politically aware to misconstrue the actions of a politician trying to place herself in position to attack....Hmm? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:37 PM Anyway I'm up too late, se if you can find anything out please. Good night all! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Don Firth Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:44 PM ". . . you Democrats . . . " or ". . . you liberals . . . " followed by some snotty remark. Typical! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Bobert Date: 27 Dec 10 - 09:47 PM No way... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 05:16 AM Who's this guy Richardson.....and what the fucks goin' on? If Hillary intended to run in 2012, I suppose now would be the time to do it...has see perhaps informed the string pullers of her intentions? Interesting. There again maybe its the "rumour mill" but to what end? I think H n' B might just be more popular than Mr O at this time? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Greg F. Date: 28 Dec 10 - 08:45 AM WATCH THIS SPACE! COMING SOON: * 12 YEAR OLD ABDUCTED BY BUG-EYED ALIENS * THREE-HEADED COW BORN IN DULUTH GRAMMER SCHOOL etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 09:50 AM Is it that preposterous to consider the Clintons may be thinking of running in 2012....If so, why? In another 6 years Hillary will probably be too old, she is still very ambitious, Obama is very weak, she could possibly take back votes from independents etc, etc, I see no three headed cows, or aliens there. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Charmion Date: 28 Dec 10 - 09:54 AM No, just some tiresome wishful thinking, or pot-stirring. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 10:15 AM You guys amaze me, do you really have so little interest in what happens to yourselves or your country. Do you not think is is interesting to try to keep a little ahead of the game? Wishful thinking....I dont think so. I would like to see a real radical leading my country, as we struggle against the powers of darkness. Hypotheses can be interesting and instructive. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Bobert Date: 28 Dec 10 - 10:18 AM Yes, Ake, it is "preposterous" to think of Hillary, Bill, or even Donald Duck runnin' for president in 2012... Okay, maybe the duck might run... Why??? 1. Obama is too popular with the Democratic voters... 2. Hillary would never want to be seen as doing anything that divides the Democratic Party... 3. She is a shoe in for 2016 if she wants it... 4. She lost last time to Obama... 5. She and Bill do have at least average intelligence... Don't know where you are comin' up with this stuff, Ake, but I'd suggest that the tin foil you got wrapped around yer head don't work... lol... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Dec 10 - 10:58 AM Wasn`t the world gonna end in 2012? Is this a harbinger? Stay tuned . . . |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:15 AM Some "helpful clone" has deleted my GUEST post of 10:13AM although it was followed immediately by my post of 10:15AM. Both posts were on the board at 10:16. Could someone please retrieve it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Ebbie Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:36 AM My post from last night evidently didn't take. What I said, substantially, was that last week Secretary Clinton said that she thinks that her current post of Secretary of State will be her last public position. For the record and in my opinion, she has been a GREAT Secretary of State. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:44 AM Bobert 1 Mr Obama's popularity is dropping like a stone and the worse effects of the melt down have not been felt yet. 2 The Party is already divided over Mr Obama's deals on taxation and loss of electoral support, it might be said that Mrs Clinton could "heal" the Party. 3 She will arguably be to old or infirm in 2016 4 Last time Mr Obama was the new broom who was about to effect great change...this time he is an ineffectual bumbler with feet of clay. 5 Ambition trumps intelligence in political circles. All this is of course hypothetical, as no one is making any serious attempt to discuss the possibilities or even the validity of the story....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:46 AM It's always been an intriguing possibility to speculate about (when Hillary might make her decisive move). I think it depends on how electable Obama apppears to be going into 2012. Lyndon Johnson bowed out toward the end of his first term, because he knew he couldn't win next time, and the Democrats decided to go with Hubert Humphrey instead...not a terribly inspired choice! Humphrey couldn't win either. Bobby Kennedy could have won, but he got shot. I think it's quite possible that the Democratic party bosses might persuade Obama to bow out and run Hillary instead...but I am making NO predictions. ;-) So, don't harass me about it, okay, Obama fans? I'm simply speculating on possibilities. There is no target here for you to hurl your outrage at. ;-) Nothing to see here. Just keep moving on, please. Nothing to foam at the mouth over here. The next brilliant strategic psychological move the Democrats could make to motivate progressive independents to all get out and vote Democratic is to run a female candidate for president! ;-) They've already pulled off the magic of electing the first "Black" president by summoning up progressive hopes, so the next obvious coup is to elect the first "female" president! Yessiree. And Hillary's perfect for that. Imagine the ecstasy of the moment! The tears flowing like rivers! The final vindication of all those years of fighting for gender equality in society! Whoah! It makes my head spin thinking about it. LOL! What a media moment!!!!!! It would be one hell of a night if Hillary got elected...just like it was when Obama got elected. BIG expectations would be raised! And what would happen afterward? The usual political BS would happen in Washington afterward, just like it always does, and the great Corporatocracy would roll remorselessly on, just like it always does, and life would get leaner and tougher for most Americans. It could happen in 2012. Or it could happen in 2016. We'll see. But Hillary's getting kind of old, so time is pressing. And there's one worrisome snag that could happen in that agenda too. What if the Republicans pre-empted that glorious symbolic progressive move right out from under the Democrats by running a female candidate of their own for president....Sarah Palin! She's younger than Hillary. She's got a lot of energy. She sounds good to a lot of Americans, and she looks good to a lot of Americans. She could do very well at the polls if they handled it right and if the timing was right. Again, I'm not making any predictions. Hell, no. ;-) Just discussing interesting possibilities. Just remember this: It's all smoke and mirrors anyway, whether or not you elect a woman or a Black or a fedora-wearing chimp with a tommy gun to sit in the White House and play "president" for the cameras. The big corporates rule. The president bounces around on the not-so-invisible strings that their lobbyists pull every day in Washington. $$$$ MONEY $$$$ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:54 AM Ebbie...Do you think there may be personal /health reasons behind the story? It is noticable that she has not been as visible on the international scene lately. There could of course be several reasons for that, like being reined in by Mr Obama, if he feels that she is about to get off the blocks. Seems strange that the Clintons should invest so much of their money in their fight against Mr Obama.....to just walk away when the prize is virtually presented to them? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 11:58 AM Oh! and as usual a brilliant definitive post from the president of mudcat "Little Hawk" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Dec 10 - 12:09 PM By the way, I think Obama is an extraordinarily intelligent man...but curiously enough, although his calm and lucid intelligence delights intellectual types...thinkers....like many of us here on Mudcat, it does not work in his favor in dealing with Congress (because Congress is utterly corrupt and ruthless and couldn't care less to listen to an intelligent man who is on the other side of any issue) and it does not work in his favor in dealing with most of the American public, because most of the American public doesn't have the patience or the attention span to relate to anything except the crudest and most primitive appeals to their emotions. A cerebral, intelligent speaker is at a great disadvantage before the American public, unless he also has a gift for pandering to crude emotional knee-jerk triggers that will get people all worked up...but not require them to think. The American public is actually suspicious of intelligent and calmly spoken people. They are not trusted by the majority. You know who the majority trusts? Some blowhard who raves on and gets them all emotionally worked up over something, that's what. A demagogue. A rabble-rouser. Obama's way too calm for most Americans. He's too sober. He's too thoughtful. He's too analytical. That is interpreted as being "weak" by the average American. Now, those calm and cerebral qualities naturally make him beloved on a forum of folkies who are now in their 50s, 60s, and 70s....but they do not work well with mainstream America. And that is part of what is crippling Obama's term in office, in my opinion. He's simply too smart for the American public. They don't trust or relate to people like that. They relate to emotional actors like Ronald Reagan or Sarah Palin...people who deliver braindead, utterly simplistic appeals to their emotions, their fears, their patriotism, and various other feelgood nonsense that we've all heard about a billion times by now. And none of it means anything...but it SOUNDS like what the people want to hear. It makes them feel the way they want to feel. It is the candidate who can harness feeling most effectively who gets elected. Obama did that very well during the 2008 election. He has not done it very well since being elected, though. If and when someone comes along who can do it better, then that someone will replace Obama. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Bobert Date: 28 Dec 10 - 12:27 PM I think it's time to dispel this notion that Congress is this corrupt place void of intelligence... There are plenty of very sharp, intellectually curious and motivated people there... It's just that they don't get any (like zilch, zero, nada) microphone time except on MSNBC... Other than that these people are blackballed from mainstream media... If that were to change then so would the public's misconceptions and would also allow Congress to work better... I mean, only bad behavior by boorish people get any real coverage... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Dec 10 - 12:41 PM Yes, there are some bright people such as you allude to in Congress, Bobert. But what effect do they have on the national agenda? They are, as you say, blackballed from mainstream media. They are just a few voices crying out in a wilderness. That means that the general public is barely even conscious of them or what they stand for. That puts the power in the hands of those whom the corporate-owned media decide to pay attention to, doesn't it? And therein lies the problem. I do believe that the Congress is mostly corrupt, and that it's mostly been bought. But the bigger problem may be that the general American public have been turned, by their own mass media, into a flock of ignorant and programmed sheep suffering from what amounts to attention-deficit disorder (ADD). How can you reach a public that has been lobotomized? How can you release a prisoner who isn't even aware that he IS a prisoner, and who participates willingly and unconsciously in enabling his own incarceration? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: Bobert Date: 28 Dec 10 - 01:05 PM Interesting that you asked, LH, 'cause there is a major push being made to use twitter, email, blogs and email by the progressive movement and an excellent story in the Washington Post today written by Krissah Thompson entitled "Activist groups take full advantage of new outlets to spread message"... And, for the record, there are alot more than just a few progressives in Congress... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary the Hawk to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 01:06 PM That's the game and the problem Hawk, both sets of protagonists believe only the other side has been lobotomised. The walking brain dead are as prevalent on the left as on the right...perhaps more so, as the right at least recognise the motivations of their own ideology....On the other hand, nobody really believes our ideology....but we believe its good for everybody else! :0) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Date: 28 Dec 10 - 02:11 PM The Tea Party makes a gawdawful amount of racket for a bunch of people with the collective I.Q. of a newt. And all too many liberals (and God knows, Democrats) have their heads up where the sun doesn't shine. But there is another loose-knit organization that came into existence recently, initially as a reaction to the Tea Party. But— As people who are concerned about the direction in which the country is going began making contact with each other (initially through the internet), it has been growing under the radar at a prodigious rate. Gatherings in private homes all over the country. More and more all the time, springing up like mushrooms. These are gatherings of intelligent, thoughtful people. (FAR from "brain dead.") When I first heard of this movement a few months ago, I was astounded to discover that there were gatherings, not just all over the country, but all over the city in which I live, three within a ten block walk of where I live. One person can make a huge difference, for example, the woman who took the initiative: CLICKY. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Date: 28 Dec 10 - 02:25 PM MORE. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Ebbie Date: 28 Dec 10 - 02:42 PM "Ebbie...Do you think there may be personal /health reasons behind the story? It is noticable that she has not been as visible on the international scene lately. "There could of course be several reasons for that, like being reined in by Mr Obama, if he feels that she is about to get off the blocks." ake It beats the heck out of me how anyone- whether it be ake or Little Hawk or Joe Blow- can presume that their intelligence and their analytical skills surpass those of others who have an actual track record in intelligent analysis. I'm sure there are people in Congress and in American government generally who practically despair at some of their countrymen's obliviousness and their willingness to be swayed by the windy ones but there are also people in those high places who know there are many, many aware, alert, focused and effectual people in the country and keep a steady hand on the course and know they - and we - can come out on the other side. Life rarely presents one test and it's over. It is far more often a hodge podge of events one meets on the road. In the meantime, I am not impressed with shallow, cynical discourses on people in government and on Main Street - frankly, my dears, they actually know very little of what they speak. Keep your analysis to two generations ago. You have a much better grasp of that history and will have a much better chance of being correct. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Date: 28 Dec 10 - 02:49 PM Exactly, Eb... Seems it's easier for some folks to sing old songs than learn new ones... And beyond that, this bashing of anyone connected with the government is nuthin' but parroting right wing talking points... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST,Silas Date: 28 Dec 10 - 02:50 PM "Struggle against the powers of darkness"? Hmmmm......... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 03:32 PM In short Ebbie....you dont know....and you dont care! Well thats a point of view I suppose. "Struggle against the powers of darkness"? Hmmmm......... Fascist policies?.....go back to sleep! Don Your people have a problem with "the message" The right can inspire with their message "We are our country, we are the real Americans ,Freedom, self reliance,family values, less govt. The left's message is "whine till we get our rights, let govt think for us, I'm human so I deserve as much as the next guy whether I contribute or not, never question the system because it pays our benefits and fills our bellies. All that was wrong with left totalitarianism....without any of the benefits like education and healthcare. To go forward we need to unite against the system not fight those who still have some spirit and guts left....we'll sure need them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Date: 28 Dec 10 - 03:38 PM Tell us what the left's message is, Ake??? Yeah, I'll be real interested in yer response to this seein' as the left has no access to the microphone so all we get is what the right wing defines us as... Yeah, what is it that we believe in??? This oughtta be real interesting... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 28 Dec 10 - 03:58 PM If Hillary resigns, it will be to take Biden's place as VP, not to challenge Obama. Obama/Clinton should have been the ticket in 2008, but there was too much animosity left over from the primary. Now that Hillary and Obama are pals again, don't be surprised if Obama asks Biden to step aside and let Hillary shoot for a term as VP before she runs for Prez in 2016. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:03 PM I agree, Beezer... They said that would be the "Dream Team" last time but all was not well between the Obama and the Clinton camps... They have now made nicey-nice and I think the country is ready for the" Dream Team" in 2012... Heck, I might even forgive Obama fir cavin' on taxes and knock on a door or two... Nah... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:08 PM That's another interesting possibility, Bee-dub. I think it would be contingent on Obama's estimated chances of victory against the Republicans in 2012. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: gnu Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:13 PM Hilary in 16. Cool! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:38 PM "Don, Your people have a problem with 'the message'." Ake, you don't know from Shinola about "my people," so why are you even commenting? Oh, of course! Blathering on about things regarding which you are totally ignorant is what you do. You know NOTHING about the Coffee Party. Why don't you try to learn something about it before you start sounding off? Don Firth (Using a different computer at the moment.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:44 PM Or the "No-Labels" movement, fir that matter... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:45 PM You did provide links Don? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:46 PM Chongo wants to know if there is a Whisky Party formed yet? If so, he will join it. If not, he's willing to launch it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Dec 10 - 04:57 PM `The Tea Party makes a gawdawful amount of racket for a bunch of people with the collective I.Q. of a newt.` Sirrah: You insult newts! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: akenaton Date: 28 Dec 10 - 05:07 PM Are you the spokesnewt 999! :0) PM you soon B, still digesting,thanks, brilliant. A. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Little Hawk Date: 28 Dec 10 - 05:53 PM Newts want respect too, you know. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Date: 28 Dec 10 - 08:43 PM Yes, Ake, I provided links. Obviously, you either didn't read them, or if you read them, you didn't understand them. The people involved in the Coffee Party are quite varied in their positions, but they tend to lean to the progressive, and they are ALL dedicated to calm, rational discussion. AND, they are all well-educated and very up on what's going on in the country. And the world. One of the things they are very much in agreement about (which you would have picked up on if you had actually read the links) is a deep concern about how "buyable" the government is and who's doing the buying. And they are not happy about it. Anthropologist Margaret Mead once said, "A small group of people can make a difference. In fact, that is the only thing that ever has made a difference." I'm not as pessimistic as you are. Nor am I as eager for bloody revolution. It can be done without having to resort to that. I knew a fair number of people back in the Sixties who were on the extreme left. They would sit around together in the back room of the Blue Moon Tavern, they would talk just like you and Little Hawk, and they would tolerate no discussion of any possible solution except bloody revolution. They positively salivated at the prospect. Of course when the first shots rang out they would be cowering under the tables. Don Firth P. S. I do tender my sincere apology to all newts everywhere. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Don Firth Date: 28 Dec 10 - 08:59 PM Okay, where did this bit of gossip about Hillary Clinton resigning as Secretary of State get started? Julian Assange, founder of WikiLeaks made the following statement: "She should resign if it can be shown that she was responsible for ordering US diplomatic figures to engage in espionage in the United Nations, in violation of the international covenants to which the US has signed up. Yes, she should resign over that." There's a big "IF" in there. But that, of course, doesn't stop the screech-freaks and the crystal-ball gazing speculators from picking up on it, claiming it as fact, and turning it into the Battle of Armageddon. National Enquirer stuff. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Hillary Clinton to resign? From: Bobert Date: 28 Dec 10 - 09:06 PM Give up, Don.... After Ake posted that the left were a bunch of whiners I challenged him to define what the left actually believes... Still waiting... And probably will be for years to come... I mean, I like Ake but he really is into the old songs... Not too much into the hear and now... Kinda fightin' the last war... B~ |
