BS: Potroast versus braising

Subject: BS: Pot roast versus braising
From: Penny S.
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 01:31 PM

I've just done a pot roast for the first time, it not being one of my family's traditional cuisine. It came out of the slow cooker very good, a turkey thigh left over from December, very tender. And lots of liquide for gravy, and soup today, though I didn't put much in. What I want to know is how pot roasting differs from braising. (We didn't do that either.) In both the meat is cooked slowly on a bed of veggies, with some liquid.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 02:06 PM

Use of word 'veggies' and unfamiliarity with braising suggests UK.

Meat or vegetables, seared at high heat with some olive oil or fat and development of caramelized 'liquid' as a base for further cooking at low moist heat is what is usually understood as braising.
A simple explanation here:
http://www.ehow.com/how_2551_braise-anything.html

One point I would add is that if the browning, or caramelization is done in a thick-bottomed pot rather than a frying pan, then there is plenty of room to add vegetables, broth, wine, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 02:17 PM

I have lived in the UK for most of my life, and if I use the word 'veggies' I mean 'vegetarians'. I'm not sure where 'veggies' meaning 'vegetables' has come from but I wonder if it arrived from the southern hemisphere via Neighbours and Ramsey Street along with the horrible 'uni'.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Becca72
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 02:26 PM

In my part of the USA "veggies" meaning vegetables is very common...

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 02:29 PM

Probably, I'm afraid Topsie: I lived in Aus. for 26 years and am used to both veggies for vegetables, and "horrible" uni!

But, born in Manchester, I'm also familiar with the famous Lancashire hot-pot.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 02:36 PM

There was a thread a while back about how to do a potroast... can't recall the name. Kendall and many others contributed.

Here, a potroast is often not done in a pot. It's done in a roaster (covered roasting pan) and it's a roast accompanied under, alongside and over by various veggies, cooked slowly at 225 to 250F for hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 03:12 PM

Potroasting is not the same as braising. Pot roast can be done in a covered roasting pan (or crock pot), the slow cooking with potatoes and vegetables added and developing a delightful odor THAT CALLS FOR BIG APPETITE- (also braising may be done if desired) darn it Gnu, we don't have one 'working' and you have made me voraciously hungry!



I don't cook veggies- I leave that to the cannibals. (using Topsie's definition, which is new to me)

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 03:17 PM

I always thought that pot roasting was done on the top of the stove - a way of roasting if you don't have an oven; whereas braising is done in the oven.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Becca72
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 03:35 PM

definition of 'braising'

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 04:17 PM

Yes, topsie... my point is that it means different things at times, in deiierent places, but you are, I believe, correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: pdq
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 04:54 PM

There must be a fine line between "braise", "fricassee" and "stew" since they all call for cooking meat slowly, in a covered pot, with liquids and vegetables.

One spice that goes well with beef pot roast is bay. Add about two leaves to a big pot.

Rather than potatoes, which give you that common "meat and potatoes" feel, try various other vegetables such a turnips, rutebegas or parsnips. They come in various colors, with white turnips giving a visual balance to carrots.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 05:13 PM

In my recipe book, braised meat sits on top of the vegetables, with the liquid coming up level with the vegetables, so that the meat develops a slight 'crust' as it is not submerged, but in stew the meat and vegetables are mixed, with the liquid covering both.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 05:43 PM

Definitions shift with the cooks involved. So variations and shades of meaning.

We do not like mushy vegetables, so we add them (except for the browned or caramelized onions) later in the cooking process. Cut up bell peppers (nice colors) in the last 15- or so minutes.
Hy's seasoning salt is used rather than the plain, a touch of chili, etc. in the mix in addition to salt.
We look for sale roasts, if not too much fat to be trimmed off.

pdq, the vegetables we add are a 'duke's mixture' of what we have on hand, including parsnips, celery, carrots, bell pepper, and turnips (little turnip variety in our stores, and our short season means that we can't grow all varieties). Sometimes we use sweet potatoes, sometimes the small Yukon Gold (dunno what name is used in the U.S.).
And of course about half a bottle of red wine. To add volume, sometimes a large an of tomatoes.

Spices we use are bay leaf, oregano*, celery seed, white pepper, thyme and rosemary.
*several varieties with different strength of taste, ours is garden grown and not as strong as the Greek, etc.

We haven't used a roasting pan in years except for a turkey; we use either a large thick-bottomed pot or the crock pot for meat (Beef, lamb).

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 06:01 PM

Very rarely cooked here as I am the only meat eater and usually eat the same meals as the veggies but I do enjoy pot roast beef on occasion. Usually as per pdq plus celery, and thyme and parsley. I have potatoes but those are cooked separately.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: michaelr
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 07:42 PM

From becca's link: Braising (from the French "braiser"), is a combination cooking method using both moist and dry heat; typically the food is first seared at a high temperature and then finished in a covered pot with a variable amount of liquid, resulting in a particular flavor. Braising of meat is often referred to as pot roasting, though some authors make a distinction between the two methods based on whether additional liquid is added. Pressure cooking and slow cooking (as in a crock pot) are forms of braising.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 07:51 PM

I haven't done either for years, but as I remember, when I braised, I browned the meat, then reserved it, did whatever needed to be done to the veg, then replaced the meat on top of the veg and cooked under an airtight lid. For pot-roasting, I browned the joint, added the veg and and liquids, covered and cooked.

The main difference was that braising would be something like steak, and pot-roasting would require a joint like brisket.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Janie
Date: 31 Jan 11 - 09:11 PM

To me, pot roast refers any of several roasts cut from tougher parts of the beast, such as chuck roast, rump roast, or top or bottom round roasts, that are best prepared by braising.

Braising and the pot roast method of cooking mean the same thing - browning, then moist heat, whether in the oven, the crockpot or on top of the stove.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 07:13 AM

How about the UK's old 'boiled beef and carrots' is that considered braised? I've never made boiled beef and carrots myself it had always seemed quite a bland dish so never got around to trying it out on the family.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST,999
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 12:17 PM

Look up

New England Boiled Dinner

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Penny S.
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 01:00 PM

Ah ha, no wonder I got puzzled. I browned the joint, sat it on the veg - carrots and leeks, liquid, including stock, just covering the veg, and slow cooked. On completion, the liquid was two thirds up the joint - so no crust. Thanks, Becca, for the link.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: MarkS
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 01:21 PM

I always though "pot roasting" came from the time when ovens were not common. The technique then was to put the meat in a heavy cast iron pot with a heavy, dished lid. Put the pot on the hearth in front of your fire, and cover the lid with hot embers from the fire.
Turn frequently, and your meal would be "roasted" in front of the open fire.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: pdq
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 01:26 PM

Isn't the New England Boiled Dinner a variant of Corned Beef and Cabbage with a few more assorted veggies added?

Part of what makes pot roast great is the spices used. Anybody have a list of their favorite spices?

Some wine or red wine vinegar will raise the acidity and help to tenderize the meat. Tomatoes also are acidic, but you risk making the just another "tomato dish", just like potatoes can make it just another "meat and potatoes" one.

Also, chuck roast (or steak) has a lot of fat that adds to the flavor. It can be removed by putting the entire dish into the refrigerator overnight and removing the obvious fat.

Another point, don't put veggies in at the beginning and expect anything recognizable after 3 1/2 hours of cooking. Try putting them in about 45 minutes from the end.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: gnu
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 01:55 PM

Look up

Jiggs Dinner

And yee gotta have peas puddin with b'y.

Some shockin good me zon me zon.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 08:01 PM

Q didn't know what Yukon Gold potatoes are called in the U.S.


They are called . . .






(Are you ready for this?)








Yukon Gold potatoes! Surprise!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 06:40 AM

I looked up the New England Boiled Dinner recipe. On the list of ingredients it had smoked shoulder or butt of pork and also chicken legs/thighs, I'm not sure if I can get smoked shoulder in UK but I have added what I think might be a similar taste. For a change I've added smoked bacon to chicken thighs to give it more of a hickory flavour and a bit of spice. It does perk up what would be just an ordinary stew or casserole.

If I can find some smoked shoulder I give the proper NEBD recipe a go, it does sound really tasty.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 12:16 PM

`Isn't the New England Boiled Dinner a variant of Corned Beef and Cabbage with a few more assorted veggies added?`

Beats me, but I think you`re correct, pdq.

I have made the boiled dinner with beef, carrots, onions and potatoes. I boil the cabbage on the side. However, boiled dinner is like pizza or spaghetti sauce--there are as many recipes as there are cooks. As was noted a few times, the key to decent boiled anything is slow cooking and adding the vegetables so the meat and vegetables are finished at the same time. I prefer all vegetables slightly undercooked, and I keep the water they cooked in for soup stock, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST,999--that guest was me. Sorry.
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 12:47 PM

`Isn't the New England Boiled Dinner a variant of Corned Beef and Cabbage with a few more assorted veggies added?`

Beats me, but I think you`re correct, pdq.

I have made the boiled dinner with beef, carrots, onions and potatoes. I boil the cabbage on the side. However, boiled dinner is like pizza or spaghetti sauce--there are as many recipes as there are cooks. As was noted a few times, the key to decent boiled anything is slow cooking and adding the vegetables so the meat and vegetables are finished at the same time. I prefer all vegetables slightly undercooked, and I keep the water they cooked in for soup stock, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 09:57 AM

Braise is potroast in French.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: pdq
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 11:27 AM

Is it possible to get a translation from French for "fricassee"?

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 11:36 AM

"Is there that owre his French ragout,
Or olio that wad staw a sow,
Or fricassee wad mak her spew
                Wi' perfect sconner,
Looks down wi' sneering, scornfu' view
                On sic a dinner?"

I believe that a fricassee is just a stew with a white sauce. It's not included in the glossary of my edition of Burns.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 03:45 PM

According to the Oxford Companion to Food, a fricassee is a dish of braised or stewed white meat, such as chicken or veal, in a thickened sauce. I happened to look it up recently on the occasion of making a chicken fricassee, and suddenly not being able to remember if there was any other kind.

In English, the word seems to have survived in the vocabulary of the American South, probably from Louisiana French.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: gnu
Date: 03 Feb 11 - 05:21 PM

Patsy... smoked picnic shoulder sells for 99p a pound here at times. You lose about two pounds of fat and bone on an 8 pounder, but it is still a great buy. I do mine simple... remove the fat (an inch thick, dice it and it's bird food) cut it into large chunks with a fair amount of meat left on the bone. Boil for an hour. Remove it and carve. Spuds, carrots, green string beans, cabbage quartered, barley and the bone. Unreal taste.

Subject: RE: BS: Potroast versus braising
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 04:14 AM

Thanks Gnu I will look out for it, it sounds really tasty and something my parents might enjoy. My dad can include the fat in the birdfood for 'his' birds in the garden too.