Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum

DigiTrad:
DIVERS AND LAZARUS
LAZARUS
LAZARUS
THE RICH MAN AND THE POOR MAN


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Roy Roger Um / Hi Ho Jerum / Hi Ro Jerum (32)
Info: Rich Man and the Poor Man / Hi Ro Jerum (16)
(origins) Origins: Dives and Lazarus-or vice versa(Child 56) (71)
Lyr Req: kafoozalem? kafoozleum? Ka-Foozle-Um (26)
Hi Roger Rum (11)
tune Req: Dives and Lazarus (variants) (37)
Tune Req: Dives & Lazarus + Brigg Fair (11)
Lyr Req: Hi Rosherum (4) (closed)
Lyr Req: Lazarus: There was a little family... (4)


GeoffLawes 14 Apr 11 - 11:25 AM
Dan Schatz 14 Apr 11 - 03:57 PM
GeoffLawes 14 Apr 11 - 08:15 PM
GeoffLawes 14 Apr 11 - 08:52 PM
Charley Noble 14 Apr 11 - 09:24 PM
Dan Schatz 14 Apr 11 - 10:41 PM
GeoffLawes 15 Apr 11 - 09:01 AM
cetmst 15 Apr 11 - 09:20 AM
GeoffLawes 15 Apr 11 - 10:38 AM
Joe Offer 15 Apr 11 - 03:51 PM
GUEST,Lighter 15 Apr 11 - 07:47 PM
Amos 15 Apr 11 - 08:50 PM
GeoffLawes 16 Apr 11 - 09:00 AM
GeoffLawes 16 Apr 11 - 09:07 AM
MartinRyan 17 Apr 11 - 08:16 AM
mikesamwild 17 Apr 11 - 01:32 PM
mikesamwild 18 Apr 11 - 12:23 PM
GUEST,Sing Out! Staff 18 Apr 11 - 12:49 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 11:25 AM

Does anyone have access to SING OUT Volume 33 ? Will you please look up page 128 and find the song which is being referred to in the (right hand) snippet which I have found using Google books.

SING OUT VOLUME 33 Page 128

I think it must be Hi Roger Rum , guessing from the one line that is visible. The contributor who has written the words just above that line says

… it was one of our marching songs when I was with the International Brigades …..

Will you please see who the International Brigader was?
I would like to add the song to the Mudcat thread I am running to collect songs in English about the Spanish Civil War. HERE

Regards, Geoff

I posted the Sing Out! lyrics in this message (click) -Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 03:57 PM

I don't see anything about International Brigades, but I think the song is Hi-Ho Jerum. Google Books has a lot of information wrong here - it's Vol. 33, No. 1, page 28, etc. I wouldn't trust what you're finding.

Sorry.

Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 08:15 PM

Thanks for looking Dan. Are your comments made from having looked in a paper copy of Sing Out Volume 33 No 1 or are you commenting from your knowledge of the magazine's format? Volume 33 No 1 does seem more likely because Sing Out as I recall was not a very thick magazine.
As to the song: it has a number of titles and many variations - with several Mudcat threads devoted to it
Hi Roger Rum
Roy Roger Um / Hi Ho Jerum
Hi Rosherum
DIGITRAD LISTING HERE
The firstof the above Mudcat threads says that Bob Cooney sang the song which is interesting because he was a political Commisar with the British Battalion in Spain. Perhaps he was the Brigader who contributed the song to Sing Out?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 08:52 PM

By playing about with search engine using the words in the Google Books snippet above I have managed to extract the following extract from the relevent page of Sing Out

CO W)2(W ( MM) (>H1^ Cotati, CA Thank you for the song "Hi-Ho-Jcmm" in the fall, 1987, issue of your magazine. You might like to know that it was one of our marching songs when I was with the International Brigades during the war in Spain, 1936-39. ... Sometimes the chorus was rendered: "Hi, Hold ycr rum, ' which makes sense. It's a little late, but I want to thank Pete for attending and contributing to our Veterans' dinner in Hayward a year ago. My son videotaped most of the program; so we can relive the precious moment. I was intrigued by Pete's mention of ...

It sounds like it is a letter to the magazine from an International Brigader living in Cotati California so it will not be Bob Cooney who lived in England and Scotland.
Also, the song was obviously printed in an earlier edition. Can anyone get us closer?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 09:24 PM

I should have an issue of Sing Out! for 1987.

But most likely someone else will be able to dig up their copy before I find mine.

The glory can be all yours!

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 10:41 PM

Ah, that us from page 128, in Vol 33, no 3. (Yes, I have paper copies.) The letter writer us Barney Baley and he does indeed say Hi-Jo-Jerum was a marching song when he was with the International Brigades during the war in Spain, 1936-39.

He said they sometimes sang the chorus "Hi, hold your rum."

Dan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 09:01 AM

Thank You Dan. So,in summary: it is a letter in SING OUT Volume 33, Number 3,page 128, 1987.Is the letter signed Barney Baley? There isn't a Barney Bailey in the Abraham Lincoln Battalion Association (ALBA) on-line biographies but Bill Bailey was a high profile ALBA veteran who lived in California at the end of his life.

BILL BAILEY'S ALBA BIOGRAPHY

The beginning of the letter looks scrambled: CO W)2(W ( MM) (>H1^ Cotati, CA is that what is actually printed?

The last bit of the letter which I was able to trick out of the Google Book snippet was I was intrigued by Pete's mention of ... . Is there any chance you could type the end of the letter. Also was the original contributor of the song Pete Seeger by any chance?

Many Thanks - Geoff


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: cetmst
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 09:20 AM

The song is printed in Sing Out!, v33, #1, page 28 and the letter in v33, #3, page 128, a coincidence of figures. The full signature of the letter is Barney Baley, Cabo, MacKenzie-Papinnau Battalion, XV Brigade.Note above the song titled"Hi-Ho-Jerum" - A parody on a whole class of songs rather than a specific song "Hi-Ho-Jeru'm"makes use of "macromics"" -- nonsense words made to sound a little like Latin. The song was popular on American college campusus in the '20s. Sam Hinton learned this verion from the late Dr. Norris Rakestraw, who was aprofessor of marine chemistry at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in La Jolla, California. The song is also printed in "The Abelard Folk Song Book" edited by Norman Cazden, publisher Abelars-Schumann, New York 1958, in part 2 "Songs for Saturday Night" Notes - Here is another example of bringing heavenly affairs diown to earth. The sprightly tune and Sunday-School moral are undoubtedly of Negro origin, and are appropriately akin to the parade-rhythm variety of spiritual. The highly mannered contrived rhymes show some relation to the technique found in "Peter Gray". "It is possible that the nonsense lines had something to do with the name of St. Jerome originally, but they are more likely just exuberant sounds on which to hang a melody". I have notes of the song being recorded by the Decormiers on their album Ballads and Folk Songs, Stinson SLP 68 and by Sam Hinton on Family Tree of Folk Songs, Decca DL 8418, neither of which I have. The 4:4 time makes it appropriate to march to like many other nonwarlike tunes.
Incidentally I have issues of Sing Out! from v. 11, #5 to date and three volumes of Sing Out reprints from earlier issues. - Charles


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 Anyone Got Access?
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 10:38 AM

Thank you for typing that out cetmst.
I have found Barney Baley in the ALBA biographies:
Barney Baley's ALBA Biography
This biography does not mention that he served with the Canadian Mackenzie Papineau Battalion in the SCW but another source HERE
confirm that he did.
As part of Barney Baley's obituary printed in the Volunteer, 2001
The Volunteer Newsletter, 2001. Barney Baley's Obituary Page 21
there is one of his poem's reproduced called ALBAREZ THANKSGIVING, -1937 which begins
Songs of all lands are medleys here in Spain:
and then names various songs which the Brigaders sang and heard in Spain. Among them is Rich Man of Jerusalem So no doubt, we have the right man.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 03:51 PM

Is there a version of this song that is specific to the Spanish Civil War, or was it just a song they liked to sing?

-Joe-

(thread title changed to fit the drift of the discussion)

I posted the Sing Out! lyrics in this message (click)


From Sing Out!, Vol. 33, No. 3 (Spring 1988), page 128:

Cotati, CA
Thank you for the song ‘Hi-Ho-Jerum’ in the fall, 1987, issue of your magazine. You might like to know that it was one of our marching songs when I was with the International Brigades during the war in Spain, 1936-39. Some of our lyrics were different -- notably the third stanza:
    The Poor man asked for a piece of bread and chees-i-um;
    Glory Hallelujah, etc.
    The Rich man said, “Scram or i’ll call the police-i-um.’
    Glory Hallelujah, etc.
This makes the Rich Man more of a mamser[sic], not just a passive possessor of great wealth. And our concluding stanza was:
    Now the moral of this story is that money is a joke-i-um
    Glory, etc.
    We'll all go to Heaven 'cause we're all stony broke-i-um.
    Glory, etc.
The song is based on the story of Dives and Lazarus, Luke 16: 19-31, as I’ve been delighted to point out for people who thought the song was a bit anti-religious.
Sometimes the chorus was rendered: ‘Hi, Hold yer rum, which makes sense.
It’s a little late, but I want to thank Pete for attending and contributing to our Veterans’ dinner in Hayward a year ago. My son videotaped most of the program; so we can relive the precious moment. I was intrigued by Pete’s mention of Alan Seeger. I believe he said Alan was his uncle. I would be grateful if Pete would write a brief bio of Alan (in Sing Out! maybe), more than the bare bones found in most encyclopedias.
Salud y hasta pronto,
Barney Baley
Cabo,
MacKenzie-Papinau Battalion,
XV Brigade


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 07:47 PM

The song was sung in the British Army in France during 1914-1918.

According to Chrisopher Haworth, writing about the beginning of November, 1918:

"After we have stumbled twice into the ditch on the dark roads in the countryside, we find the billet of the Trench Mortar Battery. Their captain is teaching the boys Rogerum, a song which, according to the captain, has been the favorite with our brigade since 1915. The song is the story of Dives and Lazarus, put rather crudely but effectively. It is a marching song which has a rich and sacred meaning as we realize how many stout hearts have tramped through those dark days singing Rogerum. It is more significant than Tipperary, for that is a light-hearted song which has accompanied men on the forward march to the line, while Rogerum has been sung by fellows who came down the line utterly wretched, worn out and often wounded."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: Amos
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 08:50 PM

Thanks so much for the fascinating historical profile from those remote struggles!


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 09:00 AM

I have just found this snippet in a novel called Heretics written by Hugh Slater, who served in the British Battalion:

Once during the night Simon heard "Tipperary" away ahead and intermittently some Americans behind were singing "There was a Jew of Jerusalem. Hi Ho Jerum." Simon was in the English anti-tank battery and an hour before they left the ...

The novel was written in 1947.Here are two links to novel snippets
Snippet one
Snippet Two

Biographical note on Hugh Slater


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 16 Apr 11 - 09:07 AM

ooops Humphrey Slater was known as Hugh so I have got the right man even though the post above might seem wrong.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 08:16 AM

Hi Geoff

Note the reference to this song and the SCW in THIS RECENT THREAD - just in case you haven't seen it.

Regards


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: mikesamwild
Date: 17 Apr 11 - 01:32 PM

thanks Martin. I've also put up another thread in he Spanish Civil war thread on a few other song issues.

I was pleased the dots were in the Digitrad , not enough access to tunes as opposed to words on thes threads. Once played you can work out some origins and links . Good 4/4 tune for marching sound alot like Like John Kamnakanaka the shanty if not a spiritual as was mentioned

By the way in the scouts we had a song 'There were two Jews of Jerusalem' but not this one. It'll come back gradually!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: mikesamwild
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 12:23 PM

Someone's answered that one it is a different chant/song


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: SING OUT Volume 33 - Hi Roger Rum
From: GUEST,Sing Out! Staff
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 12:49 PM

Howdy Mudcat friends!

This is Matt from Sing Out! Magazine. I can confirm that p 28 of Vol. 33#1 contains the music for "Hi-Ho-Jerum" and p 128 contains a letter about the song from Barney Baley. We don't have backissues of 33#1 & 33#3 in-stock, but we can send PDF copies for a small $3 USD donation.

See our website [www.singout.org] for contact info!

Keep on Singin',
Matt


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 20 November 12:51 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.