BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:04 AM

Agree 100% Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:17 AM

"The very phrase 'check mate' means 'the king is dead,' signifying the successful end of the battle."

Not quite sure where this little piece of disinformation came from, but killing the King rarely meant the successful end of a battle.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:27 AM

"the king is dead" - is right Silas - from the Persian.
However, I doubt very much if seeing off Bin Laden, however welcome that may be, has brought about the end of this particular holy war - just another erratic prod into the hornet's net.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:34 AM

My earlier remarks here regarding the bin Laden strategy to help bankrupt America as he did with the former Soviet Union, was beautifully expanded by Rachel Maddow last night.

The book "the three trillion dollar war" was metioned along with the writings of money man bin Laden that focused entirely on how much money his efforts were costing America.

Our off budget spending on the wars is much higher than the official totals of 1.4 trillion dollars. It is true that the focus of bin Laden was always money. His book the 10 trickey verses in the Koran was merely a means to an end which was the financial defeat of America.

By the way the picture we are not supposed to see clearly show 2 holes an inch or more above his left eye (not in the eye itself) and the right rear side of his head blown out. His eyes are nearly closed but crossed. There are many more gory pictures that came out of the Bosnia Muslim massacres.
I did not see the alledged chest wound.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:37 AM

I know it means the king is dead, that was not my point.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:19 AM

Bin Laden was not a king or a head of state.

He was a criminal considered armed and dangerous.

Unless he was stark naked when shot, the SEALs had every reason to suspect he could be wearing a suicide belt. Inside a fortified enemy compound with only one way out, faced with the most wanted fugitive on earth and an unknown number of his bodyguards, the only way to prevent shooting would have been for everybody but the SEALs to throw up their hands in surrender. Everybody.

Under the actual circumstances, it would have taken superhuman and possibly suicidal restraint not to shoot him. The fact that so few shots were fired, and that the U.S. government frankly admits Bin Laden wasn't holding a weapon (and is now debating whether the release of photos would be offensive) shows how America actually tries to operate.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:21 AM

Bollocks

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:33 AM

Jim, are you being naive or disingenuous?
"Deep concern" is just about as mild a rebuke as you can get!
Imagine the outrage and breaking of relations had US pulled such a stunt in any other country on earth!
Even the closest of allies such as Britain or Israel.

Al Qaeda and the Pakistan government are sworn enemies.
Thousands of Pakistanis have been killed and they are greatful for anything US does against them.
It is just that their security and intelligence services are heavily infiltrated, and America is not popular.

They express concern over the predator strikes too, but never demand that they stop.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:38 AM

He was a rich kid since the age of 10 when he got his first 80 million dollars. He was the money man. He did the photo ops.
Any actual fighting he may have done was brief and all for show.
His money gave him virtual Royal status.

The people who are focused only upon mass murder of the infidel did the real planning. They may have nuclear capabilities at this time and pose a real and present danger.
Bin Laden was about the financial destruction of America. His buddies are even crazier and may opt for nuclear options despite the futility and the diminished need for their cause among many Arab nations in revolution against dictator regiemes.

I hope sanity prevails.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Silas
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:43 AM

I have little hope of sanity prevailing when the Whitehouse is run by lunatics.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:59 AM

He was a rich kid since the age of 10 when he got his first 80 million dollars. He was the money man.

Kinda like the Koch Brothers, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:44 PM

Ten Myths about Osama Bin Laden see : 2. the money

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:49 PM

Oh Tacky...

(you don't mind if I call you that do you?)


Try some academic reading on the subject.

http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=373

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 11 - 01:53 PM

the Guardian link has less detail and substantiated knowledge than my informal remarks.


Fact: Osama bin Laden inherited 80 million at age ten.
Money continued to define his identity and importence until he became more serious in has late twenties when being a person of faith gave him new advantages.

His father was a multi billionaire building contrator for many of the largest projects is SA.

Split 20 billion dollars 50 ways and it is still a good piece of cash.

GHW Bush was partners with Osamma's brother in the part ownership of Carlyle Group Inc.

Members of the bin Laden family had one of the few flights out of Dulles on 9-12-2001.

I am unaware of any of Ossama's assets being siezed by anyone including his family.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 11 - 03:40 PM

"Jim, are you being naive or disingenuous?"
You said that nobody complained except yatta-yatta - you got it wrong - Pakistan complained, just as Britain would have complained had they gone storming up Wandsworth High Street and mown down a couple of people in The Spead Eagle.
You have no right to claim immunity on their behalf - they have committed an act of aggression against a friendly nation - who the **** are you to say how offended they are?
America does not respect national boundaries when it suits them not to do so.
They routinely use torture and arrest without trial; for the former they ship illegally detained 'suspects' to countries that are not too fussy about that sort of thing; (they are flown though our local airport regularly); for the latter, they have constructed concentration camps where similar illegally detained 'suspects' are held in inhuman conditions (60 odd of them at the last count) for indefinite periods with no access to friends, family or legal assistance.
The US is a terrorist state using every terrorist method they believe themselves able to get away with.
As far as I am concerned, the only things distinguishing them from other terrorist states is their wealth, influence and their nuclear capability.
It is this gung-ho behaviour which has endangered the world and put a hugh question mark over all our futures - every bomb that went off in London following the phony search for WMDs is down to Pres. Dubya and his poodle Blair.
I have to say, it comes as no surprise to me whatever that you have taken the Quisling line of apologising for their behaviour - runs in the blood apparently.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 04 May 11 - 04:21 PM

I read that the Pakistan foreign minister issued a staement saying Pakistan welcomed the action. It was on NHK Japan this AM. Can't find it now.

In any case, WTF is the problem? Pakistan couldn't find the fucker living next to a top military installation and the USA did and took the fucker out. Job done. And Pakistan didn't even have to pay for the bullets. The cheap fuckers should send a cheque to Obama for supplying the bullets on accounta they didn't spend any of Obama's money looking for the piece of shit in the first place.

Death to America? No. Not fuckin likely. Ten years or a thousand ain't gonna butter the biscuit. The USA is here to stay. I don't agree with what they do a lot of the time but only a stunned as me arse idiot fucks with them. Pakistan pissing them off is idiotic and doesn't help lead to peace in any form.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: olddude
Date: 04 May 11 - 04:41 PM

It is what it is, done and over with. Any country US included had the right and indeed already had an agreement in place. Does it change anything no .. do I care .. not really he was a monster, however, I will not celebrate any death .. revenge is not my way ... but I no longer care about it .. He was responsible for terrible acts throughout the world ... It will change nothing now that he is gone .. justice, probably was done. However, what difference does it all make. We are still involved in two wars and a partial third ... we don't learn and neither does the rest of the world ... until people stop killing each other over nonsense both will keep burying each other

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: andrew e
Date: 04 May 11 - 04:43 PM

Some alternative views.


http://whatreallyhappened.com/


http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Bobert
Date: 04 May 11 - 04:53 PM

Actually, gn-zer... The Pakistani president has an op-ed in today's Washigton Post that says the very same thing...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 May 11 - 05:08 PM

Jim,
"you got it wrong - Pakistan complained,"

No they did not.
They expressed concern.
As you say, any other country would be outraged, but they are grateful for the help against a mass murderer of their people.

The blame for London's dead lies with the West you say.
Pity the perpetrator and blame the victim.
That is your philosophy.
Right Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 May 11 - 05:32 PM

Visualize this scenario:

The US, having ascertained that Osama bin Laden is almost certainly living in a villa a short drive from the capital of Pakistan, presents their ambassador in Washington with a formal note requesting his extradition to face criminal charges in the US. Acting in an extremely expeditious manner for Pakistanis, a constable of the Abbottabad police force arrived at his compound only three weeks later to request his peaceful surrender so that a decision can be made on whether or not the American request will be honored, or if he will be deported to his native Saudi Arabia instead. To the policeman's surprise, he finds the place deserted. Seal Team 6, having been sitting in the SOG ready room at Hurlburt AFB, FL for the past 3 1/2 weeks, goes home. Articles of Impeachment are served on Pres. Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 11 - 05:57 PM

"Pity the perpetrator and blame the victim."
I pity nobody here - Where have I expressed pity for anybody - do not put words into my mouth.
They are all a bunch of terrorists, and unlike you, I am not prepared to put the defence of my, or anybody's country in the hands of anybody else - whatever happened to that Union Jack you were waving so vehemently not s long ago - do you think that every country should throw open its borders to any foreign power?
What would your reaction to a bunch of cowboy marines storming through London, or Manchester?
Do you give the right to the US to drop in whenever they feel like taking out somebody in Britain?
I can't help but notice that you avoid commenting on their record on human rights violations and use of torture - that's ok is it?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 11 - 06:24 PM

Mosquitos more worthy of mercy than bin Laden: Dalai Lama

The Dalai Lama, the leader of Tibetan Buddhism, implied at a talk that the Obama administration's targeted killing of al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden was justified.

During a talk at the University of Southern California Tuesday, the Dalai Lama was asked about bin Laden's killing, and whether that could be rationalized in the context of Buddhism's dharma of forgiveness and compassion.

"Forgiveness doesn't mean forget what happened," he said, according to the LA Times. "If something is serious and it is necessary to take counter-measures, you have to take counter-measures."

In the same talk, titled "Secular Ethics, Human Values and Society," the Dalai Lama also said he tries to avoid killing mosquitos when they land on him, "when my mood is good and there is no danger of malaria."

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/05/04/mosquitos-more-worthy-of-mercy-than-bin-laden-dalai-lama/

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 11 - 06:44 PM

All weepy over taking out a mass murderer who was undoubtedly in the process of planning more mass murders (indeed, that was his stated intent).

This man was responsible for the deaths of 3,000 plus people some ten years ago. People who got up in the morning and went to work as usual, who shortly thereafter were suddenly confronted with such decisions as having to choose whether to jump out of a fiftieth story window and plunge to their deaths in the street below or stay there and burn to death.

And I seem to recall there was an explosion or two in London undergrounds, plotted by the same man, that killed a lot of people, people who had harmed no one, and who also were only going about their normal day's activities.

The peculiar sentiments of some people here are enough to gag a maggot!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 11 - 06:57 PM

"Of course, the British never dirtied their hands in India...."
Can't speak for Silas but - yes Britain certainly did, and has my full condemnation for having done so.
I don't think they napalmed third world peasants, or attempted to destroy their food sources with Agent Orange - nor did they drive them into their huts and burn them to death, as did your Major Calley - but what they did was no less excusable - The Empire On Which The Sun Never Sets, or The Blood Never Dries - that was how I was brought up to think of the British Empire.
And just as you got your collective arses kicked off the roof of the Saigon Embassy, our country got kicked out of (most of) our former colonies.
Some of us learned our lesson from what our Governments did - now let's hear it from you for waterboarding, or special rendition, or collateral damage, or detention without trial.... or all the other aspects of American civiliasation that puts gas in the tanks of your SUVs.
As with Keith - I won't hold my breath though!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:06 PM

"All weepy over taking out a mass murderer"
Has anybody become weepy Don - seems most of us are having a bit of difficulty telling the difference?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:09 PM

At the end of World War II in Europe, the architect of mass murder, Adolph Hitler chose to commit suicide rather than face justice. Americans were involved in that operation. And British.

Did you get all choked up about that, too, Jim? Or are you old enough to even remember?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: olddude
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:19 PM

One thing I am thankful for is no member of the seal team was hurt. That is something at least .. I don't know the current members of that team but they always were the most elite and most dedicated of all the service branch. They are always in harms way and answer the call of duty when ordered. They don't make political decisions, they serve and protect with their lives. Most of the other branches call those guys the archangels, because when you are pinned down or captured , their normal job is to go in and get you out alive. That is what they normally do. This time it wasn't about capture but command gave the order not them.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Bobert
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:29 PM

I'd still rather have him alive and living at Gitmo...

I question why that didn't happen... Yes, I realize that the Repubs have made a domestic trial in a US court near impossible but had I been Obama I would have pushed harder for "alive"...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:37 PM

Bobert, I think the fear was that holding him alive would spawn countless kidnappings and beheadings by his rabid followers both as an attempt at ransom and in retaliation.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Bobert
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:58 PM

Yeah, bobad... It might have...

This one is a toughie...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Donuel
Date: 04 May 11 - 08:25 PM

I assume you have seen the pictures of his bloody bedroom floor by his water bed on the third floor.

This should settle the debate over water bedding having anything to do with his capture and killing.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: andrew e
Date: 04 May 11 - 08:26 PM

http://www.prisonplanet.com/top-us-government-insider-bin-laden-died-in-2001-911-a-false-flag.html

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:08 PM

Canadian NDP Deputy Leader has doubts photo's exist


biLL

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:19 PM

Don - no bleeding heart here. My concerns are twofold.

Was it legal? The breakdown of the rule of law is dangerous as is US belief in its own omnipotence.

What is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. If this was legal, so are some at least Islamist attempts to assassinate the president of the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:28 PM

"Was it legal?"

Alan Dershowitz says it is:

"The decision to target and kill Osama Bin Laden is being applauded by all decent people. Approval to capture or kill this mass-murdering terrorist leader was given by Presidents Obama and Bush. It was the right decision, both morally and legally."

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:59 PM

Well, the the party (NDP) that holds the official opposition in Canada is holding off on the applause ... if you read the CBC link I posted .... if not, here's a quote from Thomas Mulcair the deputy leader of the opposition

"Mulcair also said the killing requires "a full analysis" on whether it was self-defence or a direct killing because "that has to do with American law and international law as well."

I think his point is valid, and over the next few days (as the dust of celebration settles down) many decent people will probably raise the same question .... if the NDP had won the election this would be the official stand of the Canadian government .... now I know many Canadian catter's would not and did not vote for Harper or the Liberals ... hmmmm, so who did they vote for .... :-)

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:06 PM

One last point here .... I also raise question if the other 3 victims were also armed .... if not, then it would be murder (would it not) or ... were they just collateral damage.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: gnu
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:18 PM

sIx... ""Mulcair also said the killing requires "a full analysis" on whether it was self-defence or a direct killing..."

It was about as direct as you can get. They came to call with nasty sons-a-bitches in choppers and shot the fucker. The under-leader of the NDP don't know what took place? Then he's a fuckin idiot. How could he say something so stunned-as-me-arse?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:31 PM

gnu .... "The under-leader of the NDP don't know what took place?"

exactly ... that's why he is asking for a full analysis.

"because "that has to do with American law and international law as well."

sounds fair to me.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: bobad
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:32 PM

Thomas Mulcair has the reputation of being a loose cannon.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:40 PM

Maybe Bobad .... but we also don't want legitimate countries of the world running around as loose cannons either .... it could make things even worse for us out there ... bad enough as it is.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 May 11 - 10:52 PM

Hey. Has anyone else clicked on the link that 'andrew' made? If even half of the information given there is true, the game is over.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Janie
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:40 PM

Ebbie,

fwiw, and maybe not much, prisonplanet is so conspiracy-minded as to make it nearly impossible to separate the facts from the paradigm.

One always has to try to separate the wheat from the chaff, but when 70-90% of the raw material is chaff, it isn't worth my time to separate out the kernels.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 11 - 12:50 AM

Richard Bridge: "Was it legal? The breakdown of the rule of law is dangerous as is US belief in its own omnipotence."

Gee, you pulled your head out again..probably for some 'fresh air'!
Look, in case you haven't heard this before, (being as you are hiding under 'legal-speak'), 'War is the total breakdown of law'. OBL, chose to make his play OUTSIDE ANY law, that you are holding up, for us to adhere to..not only that, he plays under his OWN rules, with utter contempt for ANY law you are quoting. Do you think 'International Law, and the 'rules of war' apply here????..or is there a breakdown, initiated by OBL, in an attempt to replace your quoted law, with Sharia law..but with himself in charge???? Do you think he should sit cross-legged, holding hands, singing 'Kumbayah', swaying back and forth, like your 'rehabilitation program' for wayward cookie jar thieves??? Hey! wise up! If ANYONE goes flying planes into buildings, killing innocent people all over the world, because he is trying to advance a primitive interpretation, to a cultist 'everybody must die who doesn't believe in Allah religion'..so no law of toleration is due them, I'm sorry....its not like mommy caught you with your fingers in the cookie jar...you go do shit like he's pulled, and you're in the big time!!..Maybe OBL should have thought of your International war rules BEFORE, he declared war on innocent people and started killing them, indiscriminately! Believe it or not, some STUPID things have consequences. If he wants to live outside the law, maybe it was fitting that he died 'outside the law'. HE made that choice!! To stop ANY further plans of his BULLSHIT, was/and is, the decent thing to do...unless YOU can get him into your make-believe world of swaying, glassy-eyed, campfire singers of 'Kumbayah'!!!

Get fuckin' real, and stop making a parody of common sense, or, for that matter, yourself!

Chances are, the directive for the mission was terminate him and gather all intelligence possible, within a certain time limit.

The fucker is DEAD!!! Got it?? Why bitch over the details???

OK, now you can re-insert your head back into that cozy warm place, and blow 'law bubbles' out the opening!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: J-boy
Date: 05 May 11 - 01:40 AM

Hey GfS, You can go ahead and leave "Kumbayah" out of it. What did that song ever do to you?

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 May 11 - 01:45 AM

A bit graphically put, GfS, but very much to the point!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 May 11 - 01:46 AM

"Did you get all choked up about that, too, Jim? Or are you old enough to even remember?"
Sorry Don - you're doing a Keith here.
I have expressed no regret whatever that Bin Laden has gone to... wherever fanatical religious terrorists go - good riddance - another thug out of the way.
I am concerned that the US - you know the one - the big guy with the nuclear arsenal - feels it within its remit to invade any country they choose, abduct and imprison suspects and hold them indefinitely without charge or trial, ship them off to be tortured..... and all the other things terrorist countries do.
The world is an unsafe enough place without its most powerful nation acting as though it is in a John Wayne movie.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 May 11 - 01:59 AM

Pitying the perpetrators Jim.

You said, "every bomb that went off in London following the phony search for WMDs is down to Pres. Dubya and his poodle Blair."

That seems to absolve Bin Laden's bombers from responsibility for the carnage.
US and British terrorism made them do it, poor dears.

You may be outraged on Pakistan's behalf, but they are not.
They act out the charade of being "concerned", as with the drone strikes, but it is well understood that they are delighted.

They have lost 30 000 dead in the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban, and receive a billion dollars a year in military aid to resist them.

Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ???
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 May 11 - 02:12 AM

300...of mostly dumb things to say!

GfS