BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and

Subject: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Bill D
Date: 13 May 11 - 11:56 AM

...won't switch.

Yes...this could have been a 'tech' thread, but I think it's more about psychology.

How to convince then

(some of you have already shared answers about your reluctance to change...but it's interesting reading, anyway)

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 May 11 - 12:04 PM

It seems that the main reason the dude didn't switch is that he was not inclined to go through the extra trouble. Seems reasonable to me. Ain't broke, don't fix it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 May 11 - 12:07 PM

Code more bloated than usual, taking more computer power -- gimme Firefox.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 May 11 - 12:12 PM

I have tried quite a few different browsers, but IMHO, they are not any better. I have proper virus software and do not get viruses.

I am so used to Microsoft and so are the majorty of PC users, which means there are more people around to help when things go wrong.

My wife is a translator and most of her work is based on Microsoft products. In all the years she has been working for herself, she has never got work that isn't Microsoft based. So that would suggest that they are still the leader in the business world.

Becuase of my wife, all our machines are using Microsoft products. As I am the one that acts as suuport for my wife's machines, I need to stay linked in with what she needs.

It's different if you are not a business user and have no need to stick to standards.

I do not like people telling me what to use, when they have no idea, why I use Microsoft products and likewise I never dream of telling somebody to change their software if they have no need to you.

Hope that helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 13 May 11 - 12:34 PM

I won't pay good money for Microsoft Office when there is plenty of less bloated software out there for free. I use Lotus Symphony and Wordpad and Copy of MS Works that came with a computer we bought 7 years ago. I do interact with Office users. I just have to remember to save to a format that Office can read before I send back the completed work.

BTW, the browser you use has NOTHING to do with interoperability.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 May 11 - 12:43 PM

Nothing wrong with that Jack. You obviously do not need anything more. I used to teach to advanced level on Symphony many years ago and I always felt it was a great product. However with the demise of Lotus and people moving across to Microsoft, most of my work as a freelance trainer, changed completely to Microsoft products. I was a Lotus consultant when I lived in Holland, but when I came back to the UK the move was to Microsoft.

My wife needs Microsoft products for her work. If business moves to other products, she will then have to move to them, but at the moment Microsoft is still very much the standard for top busines.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Bill D
Date: 13 May 11 - 12:51 PM

I think possibly the most common reason is that I.E. is what is installed with Windows, and that MANY programs & sites specify IE as default when updating...etc. So many folks simply do NOT like installing anything or peeking "under the hood".

I just happened to early on begin frequenting a forum where real techies hang out and got reading about all the alternatives (beginning with Netscape) and why most are 'better'.

I have since found I really, really like the internal workings and add-on possibilities and configuration choices in various browsers like Opera & Firefox and several others.

(and to comment specifically on Jack's " Ain't broke, don't fix it." remark... It ain't a matter of 'being broke'! You can wash clothes in an old ringer washer, too! Or cook on a wood stove. But most of us know of better ways.
If you have never seriously tried Opera and/or Firefox..etc, I can only shrug...)

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Bill D
Date: 13 May 11 - 12:55 PM

By the way... from a search on "standard business browser"

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 13 May 11 - 01:37 PM

"I think possibly the most common reason is that I.E. is what is installed with Windows, and that MANY programs & sites specify IE as default when updating...etc. So many folks simply do NOT like installing anything or peeking "under the hood".
"

Not the case with me Bill.

I don't see what you are driving at. If you like a particular browser, then stick with. That doesn't mean anybody else has to follow suit. I wish people would leave normal grown up people to decide what's best for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 May 11 - 02:17 PM

Referring back to the first message:

I don't call this "psychology." "Psychology" makes it sound way too esoteric. I call it plain old common sense.

There is nothing strange going on here. People learn what they think they need to learn to get on with daily life, and ignore the rest.

There is way too much information in the world to pay attention to all of it.

It doesn't surprise me at all that the average person is ignorant about a lot of things that a web developer thinks everyone ought to know (like the difference between a web browser and a search engine).

The fact is, you can get along quite well without knowing this.

The writer/blogger at WebDesignerDepot.com (whose name I can't find—why would he hide it?) is doing a great thing, a very smart thing, by observing a naïve user.

(I prefer to call him naïve, not ignorant; "ignorant" often carries connotations of "stupid." It's good to remember, we were all that naïve once.)

More web developers ought to do this. It sounds like it's a new experience even for this writer. The fact that he considers it worth writing about implies it's a thing that isn't often done. More's the pity.

Have you ever observed anyone looking at Mudcat for the first time?

Do you think even Max has? I bet he'd be shocked if he did.

Bill D: I'll bet you assumed that everyone who opened this thread would follow your link and read the essay before commenting.

I'll bet that's not what's happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 May 11 - 02:39 PM

Microsoft is still very much the standard for top business.

That makes sense, given what "top business" has succeeded in doing to us...

I've never found a simple way of summing up the difference between a browser and a search engine. Or the internet and the web. And if it stops being a simple way it's a waste of time trying to do it.

Not that it really matters. My father-in-law got a computer in his mid-90s and never understood that stuff, and he had a great time using it until he died at the age of 98.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 May 11 - 02:47 PM

I have used IE for years but recently switched to Firefox which is definitely quicker on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 May 11 - 02:49 PM

By the way, I wrote my previous message after reading the essay at WebDesignerDepot.com, but without reading the comments posted below it by other people who I assume are also web developers. I have now read them.

I am very disappointed that I saw no comments about the original writer's technique of trying to learn things by watching an untrained user, or about what he learned by doing it. Instead, they are talking about their own reasons for preferring this or that browser, or this or that operating system.

Just like most of the people who posted to this thread, they are approaching it not as a psychological problem but a technical one.

It seems to me they are missing the point.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Bill D
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:16 PM

"Bill D: I'll bet you assumed ..." etc.

*grin*...you lose.

As to "a naïve user", I assume that the essay would have gone on far to long for anyone if he had bothered to examine several other classes of users...for example Arthur_itus, whose wife is rather locked into a certain system....and John in Kansas, who also has explained that he can't take many chances with varieties of software because of work.

Now, I know personally a few perfectly competent, intelligent people who, on some level, just do not care to dig into the morass that modern software has spawned. I have my opinions about what puts them off, but *shrug*.
My own wife was a highly competent programmer who wrote complex stuff before the 'internet' and when DOS was THE rule. She now relies on me to make the PCs work...she CAN, she just doesn't care to know until the answer is 'needed'. I resisted learning that DOS stuff...DOS still give me chills. I was a woodworker, but once GUIs were created, I took to it immediately...wow...what fun! You just look at the menus and gadgets and it's like learning to drive different vehicles and deciding which one are more 'driver friendly'.

I LOVE the idea that *I* can control 90+% of what appears on my screen and tell to behave...and look... like *I* want.
(how many even know that the toolbar can be at the top(or even at the side) of the screen? Or that you can give a browser many different 'themes'/skins?..(I use a woodgrain pattern)

So... some of that is why I suggested it is about 'psychology' when some people don't bother to experiment. They're not wrong, they just have different priorities.

Even so, I wonder why some people either cannot or WILL not learn to make hyperlinks (blue clickies). I suspect that in many cases it's part of the same mindset that says "use what Microsoft gives you!"

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:31 PM

They won't switch, Bill, because it takes the initial effort of...

1. thinking about something new
2. finding out about it
3. then doing it
4. thus initiating change! (ouch!)

They'd rather not be bothered with all that. They'd much prefer to just keep doing what they're already doing.

This is the reason why our old dog would not use the gently sloping ramp I thoughtfully built for him because he was having great difficulty climbing the steps. It was a new idea! New ideas require changing existing habits! He would not use the ramp. Nothing would persuade him to. He would rather die than use that ramp. It still stands there...unused. The dog died some time ago.

That's what people are like too. ;-) The problem is definitely psychological, not technical. It's mental inertia, combined with fear of change. I don't mean to suggest that I'm immune to it, either! I'm not. I have not bothered to learn a whole bunch of new tech stuff that might be good to know...simply because I can't be bothered to at this point. I don't care enough about it to bother.

If someone were there to demonstrate it and help me learn it, though, then the chances of my doing so would increase tenfold! So it is isolation that is part of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Bill D
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:42 PM

I think you may have something there, LH. I am reminded of how *I* used to treat new foods my mother offered...
"I don't like it...what is it?"

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: DMcG
Date: 13 May 11 - 05:51 PM

As always, life is more complicated than that. At work, I use Firefox, Safari, Chrome, IE (of various ilks) and so on. As a developer I have a pretty good idea of their strengths and weaknesses and most of these I installed and configured myself, including various add-ons and plug-ins.


At home I find IE adequate and rarely use anything else. If I was writing Javascript and so on at home things would be different but I have better things to do

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 11 - 06:31 PM

Life is equally (and simultaneously) as complicated and as simple as anyone decides it is. ;-) It's a matter of your own choice which way you choose (or want) to see it, and either view can be justified.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 May 11 - 06:50 PM

I use Internet Explorer perhaps 40 percent of the time, and Google 50%, and Firefox the other ten percent. I use IE because some things don't work on other browsers, and because I've been having trouble with scripts on Google unless I clear my cache of all cookies every few days.

I have had a lot of trouble with IE9, and still can't get things to print with IE9. IE8 served me pretty well.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 May 11 - 06:57 PM

IE has always worked fast and well for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 13 May 11 - 07:34 PM

They won't switch, Bill, because it takes the initial effort of...

1. thinking about something new
2. finding out about it
3. then doing it
4. thus initiating change! (ouch!)

This list leaves off one very important item.

5. keep the new thing up to date.

With IE, I can depend on Microsoft to keep up with new threats and vulnerabilities, and to promptly and automatically provide the needed patches. With ALL of the other browsers, so far as I've been able to determine, nothing is fixed except when a "new version" is released, and installing a new version requires re-learning (or at least reverifying) what you need to know. (If you don't have the latest version of any of the others YOU HAVE HOLES that malware can get into, and new releases are not frequent enough to be considered "prompt fixes.")

Much is made of all the "add ons" that you can get with other browsers, but it seems to me that it's a lot of work to pick which ones are really helpful and which are just foxtails and fuzzy dice. Accordng to apparently knowledgeable reports, there are several "apps" in common use that are known to be dangerous for those who use them, and I don't have time to pick and confirm all the ones I might want.

I have all the "helpers" I need with IE, and seldom have to look for anything not automatically already there, and I CAN TURN OFF anything I don't want, temporarily or permanently.

The "Developers" uniformly lament that IE doesn't handle all of HTML5 and CSS? as well as other browsers but there are two very simple FACTS that need to be considered:

1. HTML 5 IS NOT A STANDARD. HTML5 was "released for reading and comments" more than two years ago, and the "proposed standard" has been revised twice "for reading and comments" but NOBODY expects a final version within at least the next two years (and most say at least "4 or more"). The result is that lots of developers are "reading into" the "non-standard" a whole bunch of stuff that they hallucinate, and that is unlikely EVER to be uniformly functional.

2. CSS-whatever (there are multiple versions claimed) is in about the same state, except that it's impossible even to find a coherent "version" to read to see what's really likely to be a stable part of anything that may eventually be agreed to among the herd of people propounding their half-vast ideas of how to post (intrusively) more advertising for greater profit, and how to amuse children with more things that flash, wiggle, make funny noises unrelated to content.

(Permission to fart, sneeze, cough, and spit as needed is not withheld, but most of the rest of it is just trash.)

IE actually is the most completely compliant browser with respect to finalized and released standards extant. IE does include some "non-standard" features, but mostly where they are consistent with broadly accepted (even if not standard) website design practices. The "features" that break my web experience and that IE might render differently than "adventurous" site designers might expect are NOT A PROBLEM for me.

IE functions are integral with the operation of other Windows functions, so you MUST HAVE IE on the machine in order for Windows to function properly and safely. If you don't have a current version of IE on the machine, you don't have/get all the patches necessary to keep your whole OS reasonable secure. If you don't want to use IE for browsing, you don't need to; but it must be present and up to date. I see no real reason to have another browser when IE does everything I need it to do.

As to the linked article from the first post, Microsoft used the approach of looking at how idiots (naive users) used Office and completely redesigned it based on "idiot users." The result was that you have to be an "idiot" in order to think it remains useful. While enhancing the pleasures of the naive users is certainly something to look at, it's not a valid approach to making efficient and powerful programs - but may have some value if all you want is "volume marketing."

Worrying about which browser to use is mostly just "looking for new toys." I have work to do and sufficient toys at hand.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: ranger1
Date: 13 May 11 - 07:39 PM

I just don't care. If the computer turns on and does what I want it to do, I'm happy. I have tried a couple of other browsers, but I'm pretty happy with IE. Plus, the gaming website where I blog the most runs better with IE. I do know the difference between an OS, a browser and a search engine, and I not only know how to make a blue clicky using HTML, but I can make it open in a separate window so someone doesn't have to hit the back button on their browser to go back to the page they clickied from. So there.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Jeri
Date: 13 May 11 - 08:03 PM

I used to use IE, but switched to something else (can't remember what), then to Firefox. I just got the new version of Firefox, and it's driving a tiny bit nuts. The put the "Open in new tab" thing on top where I used to wish it was. I keep clicking where it USED to be and opening new windows. I'll get used to it eventually.

I can use other browsers without complaining, I just prefer Firefox.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 May 11 - 08:12 PM

Re the updating concerns, a decent Linux distribution is IMO vastly superior to Windows. Everything with in the distribution (which can be all the software you have installed) regardless of vendor is updated with one common updater.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 13 May 11 - 08:21 PM

Just doing an update on one of the PCs now.

Security updates for python, perl, flash player, thunderbird, linux kernel, firefox update to 4.01 amongst others available.
Bug fixes to java, Libre Office etc. as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Janie
Date: 13 May 11 - 08:24 PM

From Jim Dixon, There is nothing strange going on here. People learn what they think they need to learn to get on with daily life, and ignore the rest.

There is way too much information in the world to pay attention to all of it.

Got me pegged.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 11 - 09:20 PM

Yup, me too. Jim put it simply and succinctly.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Bill D
Date: 13 May 11 - 11:39 PM

ummmm...Joe...."I use Internet Explorer perhaps 40 percent of the time, and Google 50%, and Firefox the other ten percent."

I'd be seriously interested in how you GET to Google that 50% of the time.

JiK.."IE actually is the most completely compliant browser with respect to finalized and released standards extant.

I don't believe it was always so. I read that just in the last couple of years and versions, it has managed to become compliant. For several years, if I remember correctly,Opera held 1st place in compliance with standards.

"With ALL of the other browsers, so far as I've been able to determine, nothing is fixed except when a "new version" is released, ...etc.."

   Technically, that is true....but in Firefox, that means simply going from 3.678 or whatever to 3.685. It is a security 'patch' applied by providing a totally integrated new package. Sometimes this means waiting a few days while a couple add-ons are updated, but to those who really love the format of Firefox, it's not a big deal. They just moved from 3.XXX to 4.X, and as noted by Jeri, a few things need 'tweaking'. I am told that the menu she is frustrated with can be reset by the user..(I have not updated yet, so can't give details.)

It's not really crucial for anyone to worry about if they are comfortable, but many, many professionals HAVE adopted other browsers...especially Firefox, as their choice..(and I know a few serious users who use K-Meleon for most regular surfing! It's lean, clean and fast.)

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:48 AM

OK, OK, Bill, I mistyped. My excuse is that I was up scrubbing floors until 2 AM.....

Yes, I use Google Chrome 50 percent of the time, because it's faster. I just discovered the new version of Firefox 4.something today, and it looks really good. I've made it my default browser until something happens to it that frustrates me. That's why I switch browsers - when the browser I'm using does something to frustrate me.

Maybe I'll try Opera next time I get frustrated with Firefox.

I forgot - I have one frustration with Firefox, and I just checked now and see it isn't fixed in Version 4. When I'm researching a song, I like to post the Traditional Ballad Index entry for the song into the thread, and then review the versions of the song I find in the Ballad Index and Roud. I do a "view source" on the Ballad Index, and copy-paste. This works fine in all other browsers, but Firefox inserts several extra carriage returns in the middle of the text, and I have to delete all those extra blank lines before I post. Minor inconvenience, but enough to make me switch.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 May 11 - 02:19 AM

I am with John In Kansas.

Through my worklife, I have taught (beginners to advanced users) how to use

DOS, OS2, Windows
Email, Internet, Novel Netware
Wordperfect, Word
Lotus 123, Lotus Symphony, Excel (including automating tasks to a very high level)
PowerPoint
Publisher
Access

Plus many more applications.

Most of my work involved going into large companies, assessing their training needs and delivering the training. which required writing bespoke courseware and also doing frontline support.

However, one thing I never did was to try and convert people to using different software. All companies need stardardisation.

At the end of the day, you people who want to dig into everything, even if it is wasting their time and people who want to get their work done and have no desire to to tinker about.

I am the latter of the 2. That doesn't mean I am not knowledgeable.

You make your own bed.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 May 11 - 02:24 AM

Sorry, correction to my last post.
At the end of the day, you have people who want to dig into everything, even if it may be wasting their time and people who want to get their work done and have no desire to to tinker about.

May I also say that many people, use the wrong software to complete a task.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: GUEST,lively
Date: 14 May 11 - 05:47 AM

"They won't switch, Bill, because it takes the initial effort of...
1. thinking about something new
2. finding out about it
3. then doing it
4. thus initiating change! (ouch!)"

There seems to be a lot of judgement going on around here prompted by - may I say - a pretty innocent seeming question concerning a minor technical issue one poster was experiencing.

Well judge away if that's what makes you feel superior I guess ;-)
As for me, I expect my technology to do all the hard work for me, because that's what I believe (however erroneously according to others here?) technology is there to do.

That's also why I use a Mac ..and have invested in an invaluable biological support system in the form of a (more patient than I) human partner too!

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 14 May 11 - 06:56 AM

However, one thing I never did was to try and convert people to using different software. All companies need stardardisation.

Yes, that is true and I remember the (DOS) days when PC's started to come in at the company I worked for. What happened in the early days was different departments selected their own software...

A corporate policy is needed but I think it should be open to (unbiased) review.

That aside, I think Bill is referring to home users where IMO, the situation is very different.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 May 11 - 08:00 AM

"That aside, I think Bill is referring to home users where IMO, the situation is very different. "

Yes that's how I read it as well Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Bill D
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:20 AM

Oh, of course. Companies ...and other places like school systems..usually DO require standard setups...and often block certain operations that could affect business

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 May 11 - 11:48 AM

"and often block certain operations that could affect business "

I doubt it Bill.

As I have said before, you stick with what you like and leave everybody else to get on with what they like.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Bill D
Date: 14 May 11 - 12:55 PM

You doubt that? I personally KNOW someone in a school system that is not allowed to install software and where certain functions of Gmail are blocked.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:07 PM

All schools do that to try and protect the children. They have a responsibilty. I support them whole heartedly.

Some scumbag managed to get a porno page on one of the school machines the other day and then tried to get my daughter to look. He did this on his mates machine whilst he went to the toilet. He tried to get away with it, but the teacher caught him out. A far as I know, he will be banned from using the machines at school. Nothing but a low down scumbag. I was going to go to the school and complain about that scumbag, but my daugher was worried that the scumbag might try bullying her, if I did that. She is Autistic, so I backed off for her sake.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 May 11 - 01:13 PM

I have been avoiding Chrome for a very simple reason: Google accesses the information of everything you do Chrome in their archives. While their search engine may be great, I value my [little remaining] privacy too much to surrender it willingly.

There are also questions as to whether or not Google is likely to defend your right to privacy if an agency wanted it.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 May 11 - 02:17 PM

I use AVG security software (full-blown version, not the freebie). I switched from IE to Chrome twice. Chrome was quick, but both times I got virus attacks within a day or two, and once I'd sorted that out I went straight back to IE. I never have any problem with viruses using IE9 with AVG. Might all be down to coincidence, but I'm not pratting about any more. You can keep 'em all, I'll stick with IE.

IMHO, YMMV etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 May 11 - 02:28 PM

My cable supplier in Canada (Shaw) does an excellent job of stopping virus and unwanted spam. Several years without a problem.
IE is fast, no problem with updates; no reason to change.

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 May 11 - 12:17 AM

Why would I be "judgemental", lively, for noting that many other people suffer from the very same weaknesses I do? I do not feel superior to them, because I also often resist learning many new things for the very same reasons I cited in the passage you quote. I find it's much easier to just keep doing what I'm used to doing, and I am very reluctant to learn any new software when I'm already comfortable enough with the software I presently know and use. I am a lazy f*cker who simply can't be bothered learning the new stuff that BillD is suggesting I learn!

You err in assuming that I think I'm above that sort of weakness, and looking down on such people. Hardly! ;-) I would write a bestselling book on laziness, avoidance, and procrastination...but I just can't seem to get started on it for some reason!

Subject: RE: BS: Why people use Internet Explorer....and
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 May 11 - 10:50 AM

I might add that I have known a few dogs that were lazier than myself! And one or two people that were too. But did I feel superior to them? Well, no, not really. Just different, that's all. ;-D They had their good points and their weaknesses, and I have mine.

I can recall one hippy I knew in the early 70's named Joel whom I did feel superior to...but he was not only incredibly lazy, dirty, manipulative, dishonest, and utterly irresponsible, he was also a complete asshole. I can live with having felt somewhat superior to Joel at times...though I may have committed a sin of pride in so doing. ;-D