BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?

Subject: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 01:22 AM

There are some people who just have the knack of being the in-persons in any circle or community in which they find themselves. It is not always a matter of achievement; and I do not just mean the notorious 'famous for being famous' syndrome: though they usually go on, after having by some mysterious means made themselves the centre of attention right from the off, to achieve things and have reason for their fame.

An example: on the first day of my first wife's second year at Cambridge [whither she came as a mature student after we were married] everyone we met was asking one another "Have you met Germaine Greer yet?" She had just arrived at Newnham from Melbourne, and it was years later that she wrote "The Female Eunuch" and became a household name ~~ yet somehow everyone just knew she was there.

Others I have met who have managed a similar career-notice path have been Margaret Drabble [who became a friend after Valerie wrote a book on her]; Michael Winner [to whom I am distantly related & we were at Cambridge at the same time; where he managed the feat of being the youngest-ever editor of Varsity in a double sense ~ in age, only just 19, and in university residence, in the 2nd term of his 2nd year!]; and Jonathan Miller, whom I first met when he was 14 and at school {St Paul's} with my cousin, and later at Cambridge with me also] ~ see an entry I have just posted about him on the 'Musicians have better taste' thread.

Anyone know how this phenomenal effect is achieved? Pheromones? Brazenness? Charisma [whatever that is!]? Ingredient X?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 02:39 AM

That is an interesting question and I'll be checking in to see if anyone has answers or even guesses.

Recently it occurred to me that one reason I would never have become President of the United Stats, say, is because it would not occur to me to try. I have no idea how the person who does make it feels about it.

But conceivably the person who makes it into such a position was able to visualise himself there- and maybe that kind of confidence or chutzpa or whatever it is, is what makes that person stand out in a crowd?

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 02:50 AM

I just put it down to good luck n'good looks.....:0)

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Darowyn
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 03:55 AM

I think it's something to do with being a person to whom the phrase, "Yes, I can do that," comes easy.
Reticence is a common trait- many people don't like to push themselves forward in a social situation. Perhaps they don't enjoy responsibility.
Other people like a challenge, can turn their hands to anything, and like nothing better than having to master something new.
I moved to this town less than three years ago. I'm now involved in running four of the societies and associations in the town, and a rock band too.
I've always ended up running everything I've been associated with, at work on in my own time.
Whatever these people are, in a small way, I guess I'm one of them.
When people want something done, I say "Yes. I can do that". Sometimes I know I can, but sometimes, I just think it would be fun to find out how.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 04:14 AM

I think it's down to an innate charisma. Some people radiate a kind of attraction to others and draw people to them. It isn't looks (Germaine Greer isn't a particularly attractive lady) There's a rather forbidding-looking chap at my local church who closely resembles Oliver Cromwell (including the wart) but who is so delightfully likeable that everyone is drawn to him. There's also the sense of capability, these people know what to do and will act; they seem to have social power. I would hope it's a combination of wisdom and kindness. But I knew (slightly) Gordon Brown in Edinburgh, and he was arrogant and a perfect twit!!

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 04:25 AM

Aw, shucks, Michael, it's hard to explain, but I'll try...

Is it my good looks? My money?

Is it my prodigious talent? My scintillating wit?

Is it my black belt (7th Dan) in Judo?

Is it my connections to the noble houses of Europe?

Is it my multifarious achievements in science, humanities and the arts?

Nope - it's none of these. I just make sure, when I'm down the pub, that I always stand my round.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 04:45 AM

How judo, Will? Does Dan know that he is only 7th to you...?

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 06:20 AM

In some case, like Ms Greer & Mr Winner it could be put down to "pushiness" but Jonathan Millerr always struck me as essentially shy. Some people are known for "going to the opening of a fridge". Someone I know worked with Lionel Blair when he was the youngest member of the chorus. The Director was forever complaining that he always managed to get himself in the front & centre of the shot: "Will that boy get back to the back line".
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 07:34 AM

I don't know, but I haven't got it that's for sure ;)

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 07:37 AM

Michael, with jokes like those, no-one will ever forget you. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 10:29 AM

As Eliza says, it's down to an innate charisma.

There is also a tendency, particularly here in the US, for people to think that aggression is somehow related to ability. Employers fall for that misconception a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 10:46 AM

If by being 'in', we mean that a person is respected and regarded as something of a leader, then the first thing that person needs is a genuine interest in other people. Then they need the social skills to convey that interest without becoming intrusive.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 11:29 AM

"In" is a different position in some groups. Some circles require money, 'connections', family status...etc. Some merely require interest, awareness of the rights & sensibilities of others and being willing to SAY something or DO something at appropriate times.

I arrived in the Wash. DC 'folk' scene in 1977. I sang at a couple of open mics, went to concerts, smiled at people... and tried to learn what 'the rules' were.
By the end of my 2nd year, I was asked to be on planning committes and was being invited to parties.... in spite of being only a minor and moderate musical talent.

Even with that 'success', there were 'inner' circles that I was NOT a part of... though I knew most of the 'members' on a friendly basis......... but I soon was part of other circles...some of which overlapped.

Now.... I say all this only in hindsight, for at the time I was not attempting to "get in"... but just enjoying being around. I am sure that IF I had been a serious, talented musician, I would have had other opportunities.

It's kinda like the item distilled from the Hippocratic Corpus... "First, do no harm."

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 11:39 AM

In Greer's case it certainly wasn't effortless. She put an awesome amount of effort into self-promotion. I only saw her once, around 1969-70, in Auckland. She had come there (from Australia) to campaign for the local anarchist activist Tim Shadbolt, who was then facing prosecution for obscenity for using the word "bullshit" in a public statement (see his autobiography "Bullshit and Jellybeans", 1971).

She was a colourful and effective speaker, and her intervention probably did help Shadbolt. But a 1200-mile trip to get a few quotes and photos in the papers in another country she had no particular connection with?

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 11:52 AM

Yes, Jack - but that was after she was known. How do you think she 'self promote' on her very first day in Cambridge, just landed from Melbourne, so that everyone in the place had heard of her within 24 hours? That is the phenomenon I am addressing here. 'Pushiness' is a mere begging of the question - lots of people try to be pushy and only manage, if noticed at all, to incur resentment.

-M-

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 12:30 PM

Here's song about it

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 12:33 PM

In that dreadful TV programme The Apprentice, where the rude and abrasive Lord Sugar growls and snarls at a group of young hopefuls, it seems to be the most aggressive and cutthroat person, who never hesitates to tread on the others to succeed, that eventually gets the job. I know this isn't necessarily typical of society, but...

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 12:55 PM

I suspect that a large majority of the "I can do it" merchants we meet in the world can't actually. We only remember the exceptions.

The thing I find enjoyable about The Apprentice is watching these arrogant little pillocks prove themselves laughably incompetant, and getting smacked down for it. I imagine the people making the programme cast it with that in mind.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 01:04 PM

Over a long life I've often observed that the so-called 'In Crowd' are sometimes at heart deeply unhappy and discontented. Appearances can be deceiving. The quiet and unobtrusive folk are sometimes the truly happy ones.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 01:46 PM

By the time Greer arrived in Cambridge she had a substantial reputation in other countries, mainly Australia and the Netherlands - remember you encountered her a few years after I did, and I'd heard of her before she arrived in NZ. She wasn't starting out as an unknown.

She was probably best known in the UK at that time for her role in Suck magazine. You probably already knew her face (yes, it's there, look at the top) from this photo. That sort of exposure beats a business card.

I've never met her but I am connected to her by only one intermediate personal acquaintance in each of three countries. And they didn't even have the word "networking" when the first two links were made.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 01:49 PM

Mike
if ya carry a pistol ya can get in right quick :-)

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 01:52 PM

I think I need more information.

>>>on the first day of my first wife's second year at Cambridge [whither she came as a mature student after we were married] everyone we met was asking one another "Have you met Germaine Greer yet?" <<<

Did they elaborate on why your wife would want to meet her?

The answer to your question would differ greatly if the next thing the person said was one of the following.

"She has the most radical and insightful ideas."

"She is so lovely."

"She is trying to break the Guiness record for talking to the most people in the first week at Cambridge."

"I don't understand her. She blathers on about female unicorns or something."

"She is handing out delightful biscuits."

"She owes me money."

"She pinched my bum!"
"Mine too!"
"Mine as well"

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 03:50 PM

Charisma is important, but push, brazenness and salesmanship contribute.

I am in awe of that Paris Hilton dame- nonsensical actions to get noticed and into the media, now set to add to her fortune by selling her fragrances, dvds, and other products, especially herself.
See this adv.:
http://www.parishiltonsite.net/parisstore.php

Amazing!

Conrad Hilton genes in that gal-
He started from scratch in New Mexico, became a 'big man' on campus, entered politics, bought a little hotel in Cisco, Texas (rooms changed hands three times a day according to Wikipedia), and went on to acquire hotels in Texas and build in Albuquerque, kept in the public eye by marrying Zsa Zsa Gabor, built up a chain that included the Waldorf in New York and hotels abroad, and founded a credit card company, etc.
A true entrepreneur who founded a hotel empire that employs thousands.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 04:04 PM

Jack - No; you have the dates wrong, You are talking about 1969-70. Sh arrived in Cambridge, unheard of, in 1964. She was indeed well-known when you first met her; but not when I did. Your meeting with her was surely part of her world tour on publication of Female Eunuch, which was what made her a world figure. But 6 years earlier, as I said, her impact on Cambridge was whoooof! How? Why? It's not necessarily pushiness, or emphatic behaviour. For every truculent Sugar or Pushy Winner or effortlessly prominent Greer, there is a shy Drabble or Miller. I don't know Sugar; but I do the 4 I mentioned in OP. About the only obvious characteristic they share is this very Brand X knack which I am asking about. Miller, e.g., just sits there and people come along from out of the blue, like that opera conductor in the Arena programme I mentioned in the Musicians thread, qv, and invite him to direct things he hasn't even thought of directing himself. Why? How?

-M-

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,Chord Chucker
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 04:05 PM

As children, we all learn various ways of getting and avoiding attention in our "family of origin", and through life, we use what works for us there.

From the picture we get the sense that a cheery smile didn't get you far in the Greer household.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Joe_F
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 08:15 PM

Lubrication.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,germgerm
Date: 06 Apr 12 - 10:15 PM

if they didn't do the work in your scene then they did the work somewhere else. no one gets these things without some degree of labor somewhere. this idea of "effortlessly" is a perception that often negates alot of work known to no one but the laborer involved. anyone can boot up their social charisma by studying manners, developing humour, a sense of one's own style, showing real interest in others and showing their particular gift(s) in social interaction. no one is stuck in a position of not having something. however some scenes, I have found, will never let you in due to clannishness, egotism or just being not a particularly good fit. reccommend dale carnegie or autobiographies of various high acheiving people in order to glean tips on how they went somewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Apr 12 - 02:19 AM

Your clue is in the Latin. The word 'opportunity'....lets look at it, because things sometimes lose their original meaning, in translation, and colloquialisms.

OP....(optic, optometrist, ophthalmologist) having to do with 'SEEING'
PORT....(portal, port)..and opening, or a 'DOOR'
TU....Latin for YOU or YOUR
ITY..(in the Latin,'ITI'(infinity,maternity,maturity)....meaning
    IN THE STATE OF BEING.

OK.....In the state of being of seeing your doors.

The 'state of being' is the key!!! it's a mental and spiritual place.
Bye-Bye.

Regards,

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 07 Apr 12 - 05:14 AM

After a long career in the UK Immigration Service, I thought this thread was aimed at me.

Then I read the OP, and found it was.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 07 Apr 12 - 09:56 AM

Michael, Germaine Greer owes everything to Vivian Stanshall - see link. Warning, may cause spluttering and hilarity....

http://www.keithmorrisphoto.co.uk/index.php/single/viv_stanshall_germaine_greer_oz_magazine_cover_1969/

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Apr 12 - 11:03 AM

Errol Flynn was known for having that talent.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 02:29 AM

We LOVE Errol Flynn!
..also, being amused at watching some of them over at 'other thread' bullshit, and stroke each other....I'll pop in, sooner or later....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 04:38 AM

Someone famous once said with arrogance and a bit of disdan, "I never give parties. I am only invited to them."

Act like you don't want in.

As for me, I am now at a stage where I couldn't care less whether I am included, invited, celebrated. It is bliss.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 01:50 PM

"The secret of success is sincerity. If you can fake that, you're in." (George Burns)

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 07:11 PM

Yes! And then there's humility...a character trait one can take great pride in having.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: kendall
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 07:16 PM

:-)

It's like petting a cat; you have to act like you don't want to.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 09:45 PM

Virginia Tam: "Someone famous once said with arrogance and a bit of disdan, "I never give parties. I am only invited to them."
Act like you don't want in."

In regards to 'parties'....I have an expression, that I told my kids, years ago...."Go to parties....but don't live in one."

The other, in regards to political parties: "I'm not with the party..I'm with the band."

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 09:46 PM

Sorry forgot to sign in......(must have been one helluva party)....

Virginia Tam: "Someone famous once said with arrogance and a bit of disdan, "I never give parties. I am only invited to them."
Act like you don't want in."

In regards to 'parties'....I have an expression, that I told my kids, years ago...."Go to parties....but don't live in one."

The other, in regards to political parties: "I'm not with the party..I'm with the band."

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Apr 12 - 10:43 PM

I think the real answer is an interested alive willignnerss to communicate. It's remarkably rare commodity -- usually spoiled by ego-centricity and defensive righteousness of one or another kind.


A

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 04:25 AM

A sharp wit is a definite asset, as is talent.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 05:32 AM

Bugger - I've been 'in' for years and now I've suddenly realised I'm 'out'!

Better strip off and bring my tush up to my nose, I suppose...

...nope - can't do that. Oh well, I give in.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:38 PM

It's like chemistry, or electricity, it's there but no one know how it works, or why. It just is.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: kendall
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:40 PM

I'd have to put a sense of humor at the top.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: gnu
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:43 PM

Yes, kendall... definitely at the top.

Of course, my good looks have always helped as well.

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:50 PM

What? Wait. How do you know that? :D



A

Subject: RE: BS: How do some effortlessly get 'in'?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 12 - 02:51 PM

To paraphrase one of my favorite comedians, I don't want to get "in" to any group that would have me as a member.