Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Howard Jones
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 02:50 PM

I'm not so sure that someone at Delta "must have noticed". The part of the organisation dealing with air miles would probably have no way of knowing that the seat was not occupied by a person but by an instrument. The staff on board would probably have no way of knowing that the instrument was claiming air miles.

The travel agent may have set up the account, but it was done on Lynn Harrell's behalf and with his knowledge - if not originally, he then went along with it for years. He should have known that it was dodgy, or why go through the charade?

The simple fact is that he acted in bad faith over a period of many years in order to accrue considerable benefits to which he was not entitled. Half of "several hundred thousand air miles" have significant value, not just for flights but for other goods and services.   It is unsurprising that when he was caught he was penalised. To be honest, I'm surprised that anyone thinks his actions are defensible.

As for whether Delta's policies make good business practice, that's another question entirely. It does appear unfair that a full fare ticket should not attract all the benefits of another full fare ticket. My impression is that it's fairly standard throughout the airline industry but there appear to be some exceptions.

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 03:56 PM

"He should have known that it was dodgy, or why go through the charade?"

Can't agree with that, Howard.

When Harrell's travel agent set the thing up, Harrell, and apparently the travel agent as well, undoubtedly assumed that there was no problem. And the fact that Harrell had been using Delta Airlines for some fifteen years and no one had said, "Boo!"

Should have known it was dodgy? He had every reason to assume that this was standard operating procedure.

When I had to buy a seat for my guitar, as I described above, the airline clerk offered me the option of paying a child's fare for the guitar, and the matter of possibly accruing frequent flyer miles never came up.

Suppose that now, some fifteen years later, the airline came to me and demanded that I make up the difference between a child's fare and full fare for the seat on the basis that my guitar was not actually a child?

It's a bit late now!

Since the thing had gone on so long, the intelligent thing for Delta to do would have been to contact the travel agent and inform them that "that's not the way in works," and in the spirit of good business relations, let the matter of frequent flyer miles for Harrell, at least, stand.

If he used them when going on concert tours for fifteen years, they made a helluva lot of money off him! Good customer. I wouldn't alienate him--and reap all the flak that they are now reaping!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 04:32 PM

Policy: (n) written statement or statements by lawyers and corporate executives which remove the onerous and occasionally dangerous task of thinking from employees.

Subject: Delta Airlines revokes cello's FF miles
From: Genie
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 04:47 PM

@Howard Jones
You keep talking as though Harrell had accumulated thousands of FF miles for his cello at no cost to himself. He paid as much for those miles as if he had bought twice as many tickets for himself. And if both he and the cell had FF miles for Delta to revoke, it would seem he had not actually USED the cello's FF miles often, if at all. (People often don't use their FF miles for a trip because of the scheduling/itinerary restrictions on using them.)   Jones may have "accrued" many benefits via "Cello Harrell's" tickets, but it doesn't sound like he had been availing himself of them a lot.   
Again, if it's fair for you to get frequent flyer miles for buying clothing online using some particular credit card, why is it unreasonable for you to get FF miles for buying a full-fare airline ticket that isn't going to be used by a person?

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 05:26 PM

By the way:

Lynn Harrell and the offending instrument.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Tootler
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 07:58 PM

So Delta airlines send a letter in 2001 pointing out the rules about accruing airmiles.

They then wait eleven years before deciding to follow it up and then take somewhat draconian action.

Is that reasonable? Why didn't they follow the matter up at the time? It doesn't exactly look good for Delta Airlines whatever the strict legal situation.

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 09:14 PM

If I may, I wish to clarify something: Howard has simply said that the terms under which Harrell joined that air miles program did not allow him to accrue air miles from buying a seat for his cello. Howard has not--that I've seen--addressed the issue of the fairness of the situation. He's simply said that under the 'contract' terms, Harrell has no right to those accrued air mile points. And in that regard Howard is correct.

As to the fairness of it all, most other people here have posed cogent questions.

IMO, the individual at Delta (or the air miles company) handled it the wrong way. As I said, "policy" means no one has to think. There is a reasonable middle ground in the situation. If Delta has the brains of yer average turnip, they'll attend to that. imo

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 10:11 PM

But as I understand it, this is not the impression that Harrell got from either his travel agent, OR the airline itself. He assumed that everything was according to Hoyle. Nobody bothered to tell him otherwise.

The airline claimed that they had sent him, not his travel agent who made his reservations, a letter several years ago, but he never received such a letter, and they continued to accept seat reservations for his cello.

Somebody screwed up somewhere, and it does not appear that it was Harrell.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Don Firth
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 10:23 PM

Lynn Harrell's blog.

Plus comments.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 Nov 12 - 10:39 PM

The difference between genius and stupidiy . . .

Were I interested in shit disturbing, I would suggest to Mr Harrell that he advise the world he'd like to see the points that were taken away be given to a charity instead of ostensibly enriching the coffers of Mr Delta.

Thanks for the heads up, Don.

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Howard Jones
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 03:47 AM

To be clear, I entirely agree that Delta's terms are unfair, and perhaps unreasonable. But they are the terms he signed up to. Whether the travel agent did it at his instigation is beside the point - it was his responsibility to check the t&cs. I still think that having to set up an account in a false name should have rung some alarm bells - at least enough to make him check the t&cs. I'm fully prepared to believe it was through naivety rather than dishonest intent, but the outcome is the same, and he shouldn't be surprised to be penalised when the airline (eventually) caught up with him.

According to his blog he had redeemed the cello's air miles to fly the cello, so he did receive the benefit.

It's difficult to understand why Delta took so long to take action after it apparently came to their attention in 2001. I wonder whether a statute of limitation should apply?

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Haruo
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 04:52 AM

If Delta knew that the cello was a cello as long ago as 2001, it seems to me they should have canceled its Airmiles account then rather than waiting ten years. By now it looks to me like the cello has acquired personhood by on the analogy of common law marriage.

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Don Firth
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 02:32 PM

I don't think Harrell was thinking in terms of deception when he named his cello "Cello Harrell." I tend to think it was more a bit of whimsey.

Check some of his stuff on YouTube, and it's obvious that he has a pretty good sense of humor.

I'm sure he did NOT know that there was any deception involved. If I book through a travek agent and the travel agent tells me that everything is hunky-dory, I generally feel safe in assuming that it is. Why would anyone reasonably question it?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 02:44 PM

"Check some of his stuff on YouTube, and it's obvious that he has a pretty good sense of humor."

Thanks to your link, Don, I checked out Harrell's cello playing--specifically some lessons he teaches on YouTube. Holy moley can he teach. I know from nothing about cello except I love its sound and what it can add to songs in almost any genre. I really understood after one ten minute lesson on YT what he does with one small aspect of cello playing, so much so that possibly I could explain it to a cellist. In the vernacular, WOW!

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 05:04 PM

one of the responses to Lynn Harrell's blog says. "There are innumerable activities I would rather be doing than waking up
knowing I have to get on an airplane with my cello. It has become that
treacherous. I'm surprised my endpin hasn't been pulled from my cello
and discarded. I'm sure you have taken note of what has happened to two
distinct violins in the Frankfurt airport…"

what happened to which " two distinct violins in the Frankfurt airport"?

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Nov 12 - 05:11 PM

Philippa: it may be a reference to the following.

http://www.artsjournal.com/slippeddisc/2012/10/breaking-german-customs-seize-a-second-violin-from-japanese-artist.html

Subject: RE: Delta Airlines Doesn't Like Musicians
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Nov 12 - 09:51 AM

Another incident like Don's wheelchair story from 18 November:

BA breaks fencer's wheelchair