BS: Muslim men and white girls - again

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 02:04 PM

You will never admit it Jim, so let's give it up.
It does make you look a bit silly though.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 01:53 PM

"Only a tiny number, but that is the fact."
No it isn't and the only way you can claim this is by ignoring the facts you have ben givem
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 01:32 PM

I was the first on this thread to STATE that there were Hindu and Sikh victims, as I also was in the 2011 thread.
You owe an apology.
You called me "LIAR" in capitals.

Very few of the victims of this crime have seen their abusers charged.
None of the Hindu or Sikh victims have.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 11:46 AM

The majority of those involved in this particular crime have been British Pakistani men.
Only a tiny number, but that is the fact.
How does it help to deny it?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 11:26 AM

Your earlier post which mentioned "there have been Sikh and Hindu victims" is so dismissive as to beggar belief in its obvious implication that this was almost unworthy of mention.

C.S. was the first to give it something like its true import as the origin of later abuse of white girls, whereas you attempted to imply that a few sikh and Hindu girls had more or less accidentally been abused.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 11:26 AM

And here I sit so patiently
Waiting to find out what price,
Ya have to pay to get out of
Going through all this shit twice.

A slightly paraphrased partial stanza from Bob Dylan's "Stuck Inside of Mobile (with the Memphis Blues Again)."

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 11:23 AM

WHO ARE YOU IDENTIFYING AS THE CRIMINALS HERE IF IT IS NOT MUSLIMS? AND PLEASE ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE EVIDENCE YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN LEAVES YOUR "Muslim/Pakistani/Asian/foreigner/ex pat/
..... whoever accusation dead in the water

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 11:22 AM

So you were the one who raised the point in the first place on this thread???

I actually repeated the post for you today Don.
It is true.
Another apology required!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 11:18 AM

I quoted them all in the 2011 thread Don.
Now, are you going to apologise for "his dismissive reaction to the fact that Hindu and Sikh girls are also targeted." ?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 11:18 AM

""Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:47 AM

his dismissive reaction to the fact that Hindu and Sikh girls are also targetted.

Don, far from dismissing it, it was me who first pointed that fact out, both on this thread and on the 2010 thread!""

So you were the one who raised the point in the first place on this thread???

LIAR!

""Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,CS - PM
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 04:22 PM

DtG - "We are also still not addressing why the Moslem gangs target young white girls while the other gangs - Be they East European, British, Yardies or Triads seem quite happy to target any females."

From various anecdotal sources I have seen in reading around this topic, it would seem that Sikh and Hindu girls were the first victims to be targeted by Pakistani gangs. I have also read that a source of serious racial tensions and resultant violence between Sikhs, Hindus and Pakistanis in this country, particularly during the 90's, were reputed campaigns by groups of young Pakistani Muslim men forcibly converting young Sikh and Hindu girls to Islam by seducing, beating and/or raping them, which - as these men know - makes their victims unmarriageable and often outcast according to the standards of their own communities - thus leaving them with no-where else to turn, but back to their abusers.""

Your response, 42 minutes later, ignoring the statement completely:

""Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 05:04 PM

I agree Al.
The depravity in these cases is sickening.
There have been so many through the courts now.
Almost all the offenders are linked by ethnicity.
Some of us think it significant.
Some of us think it is a coincidence.
We are not going to agree, so let's drop it.""

If anyone ever posts something really damaging to your argument, your first instinct is to kill the thread.

I'd call that dismissive (and I'm being over generous here), wouldn't you?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 10:51 AM

""Some individual officers have stated that it was because of ethnicity.""

Another of your unattributed and unsupported statements, drawn out of thin air?

Or can you quote those individuals, with relevant evidence?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 10:22 AM

I used that phrase because it was a direct reply to Don and that was the phrase he used.
All thjese posts were made BEFORE that post, so I had already made my position clear.

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 24 Jan 11 - 05:28 PM

This particular crime, dubbed street grooming, is the domain of male muslim gangs according to the people in a position to know.
There is lots of other dreadful crime for which other groups are responsible, but let us accept that this is a crime that the culture (not the religion) of the Pakistani community is largely responsible for.

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 24 Jan 11 - 06:07 AM

I agree that there is an issue about parenting and the security of children in care.
I hope that is not being offered as an excuse for the sexual abuse of children.
Anne Cryer gave a very plausible explanation of why these abusers are mostly from that community.
It is nothing to do with Islam.

: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 09:13 AM

I was referring to the British Pakistanis.
Their culture is quite distinct from Turkish Moslems, Tunisian Moslems, etc.

: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 06:43 AM

Don, on 24th January I said about this issue "It is nothing to do with Islam. "
I do not "see the problem as a Muslim one,"
I have always said specifically that it is not.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 09:52 AM

Throughout these threads you have emphasised that these criminals were Muslims – or maybe you believe it's Pakistanis who are to blame.

"Don I do now " believe that all male PAKISTANI MUSLIMS have a culturally implanted tendency"

If you weren't making your claim that it was their religion was to blame why even bother to mention that the criminals were Muslims, what on earth has their religion got to do with it and who are you now claiming to be the leading perpetrators?

You are now attempting to create a diversion – your argument that these people are all Muslims or Pakistanis, or whatever racial or cultural group you are claiming committed these crimes, you have no case
The facts are that almost certainly the greater number of people committing these crimes are indigenous to Britain, possibly followed by Eastern European sex traffickers – but there are no researched figures and you have never had a basis for your claim.
You have persistently ignored evidence put before you and have dodged answering questions.
You have deliberately manipulated the facts, including your own "evidence" throughout many of the threads you have contributed to – it seems to be your stock-in-trade.
Respond to the articles you have been given or go away.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 08:39 AM

Jim.
You have persistently claimed this to be a predominately "Muslim" crime
That is the third time today you have made that accusation.
It is still a lie.
I have NEVER related the crime to Islam.
Why must you always attack instead of discuss, and why the need to LIE?

We had a thread about that Harker story you pasted.
The crimes he said other papers had not reported, actually had been reported.
Also the crimes involved lone paedos, not trafficking gangs.
It was discredited.
He had no case.
read the thread

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 08:22 AM

"Again, it is a lie that I have EVER related the crime to religion."
You have persistently claimed this to be a predominately "Muslim" crime - has Islam ceased to be a religion.
Your now admitted claim that "all male Pakistanis have been culturally implanted" underlines that.
Get help Keith
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 08:18 AM

"Keith - Jim has the whinging sorry outlook of your typical expat. Live with it."
I resent that - I was whining about goose-steppers like Keith long before I left the UK to live in Ireland.
Where I live has nothing whatever to do with my opinion, which was part of my upbringing. This is especially true as I was born and spent 55 years of my life in the UK.
My present place of residence is a regular ploy by Keith when he has been cornered - 'rat-at-the-throat', so to speak.
It proves nothing other than to underline his (and other's - you seem to have caught a dose of his disease) xenophobic little-Englander outlook on life - "you only have a right to be listened to if you can prove current residence" - grow up - the pair of you.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 08:13 AM

Which blows your claim of "a predominantly Muslim crime" clean out of the water.
Again, it is a lie that I have EVER related the crime to religion.

The crime I have been talking about, where gangs target vulnerable local children, groom them, rape them, pimp and traffic them, as in the string of court cases over the last 3 years, have mainly involved BPs.

You have even accused the police of ignoring this behaviour because the perpetrators were Muslims

It is an undisputed fact that police DID ignore this crime.
Why they did is yet to be established.
Some individual officers have stated that it was because of ethnicity.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 08:04 AM

"I was wrong about child trafficking from abroad."
Which blows your claim of "a predominantly Muslim crime" clean out of the water.
The sheer number of European gangs pimping underage women relegates Muslims to the bottom of the list once you take into consideration the indigenous sex trade, which reaches deep into the British establishment – tip of the iceberg?:.   
http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/articles/Partial_List_of_Convicted_British_Paedo_Politicians.html

"I agree, and deny that anyone here has done that."
What!!!!!!!
This has been your case throughout these squalid threads - that grooming and procuring underage girls for sex has been predominately, if not exclusively a Muslim act - built into their culture even.
Quote:
"So, why have all such cases involved BPs?"
You have even accused the police of ignoring this behaviour because the perpetrators were Muslims - making the police - what exactly - at least accomplices to underage prostitution?

A fair summing up of your attitude to date:

"THIS IS HOW RACISM TAKES ROOT
THE DIFFERENT WAYS THE MEDIA COVERED TWO CASES OF MEN GROOMING CHILDREN FOR SEX SHOW HOW SHOCKINGLY EASY IT IS TO DEMONISE A WHOLE COMMUNITY
Joseph Harker
The Guardian, Sunday 22 July 2012 20.30 BST
Five of the eight men convicted of child sex abuse in Derby: Mark Adaoui, John Shaw, Stefan Godfrey, Anthony Lambert and Ijaz Ahmed. Photograph: Caters News Agency
By now surely everyone knows the case of the eight men convicted of picking vulnerable underage girls off the streets, then plying them with drink and drugs before having sex with them. A shocking story. But maybe you haven't heard. Because these sex assaults did not take place in Rochdale, where a similar story led the news for days in May, but in Derby earlier this month. Fifteen girls aged 13 to 15, many of them in care, were preyed on by the men. And though they were not working as a gang, their methods were similar – often targeting children in care and luring them with, among other things, cuddly toys. But this time, of the eight predators, seven were white, not Asian. And the story made barely a ripple in the national media.
Of the daily papers, only the Guardian and the Times reported it. There was no commentary anywhere on how these crimes shine a light on British culture, or how middle-aged white men have to confront the deep flaws in their religious and ethnic identity. Yet that's exactly what played out following the conviction in May of the "Asian sex gang" in Rochdale, which made the front page of every national newspaper. Though analysis of the case focused on how big a factor was race, religion and culture, the unreported story is of how politicians and the media have created a new racial scapegoat. In fact, if anyone wants to study how racism begins, and creeps into the consciousness of an entire nation, they need look no further
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/how-racism-takes-root

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-launch-criminal-investigation-into-mps-child-sex-ring-8456434.html

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: theleveller
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 06:11 AM

"it ain't women who are having sex with little girls"


An awful lot of opinions being put foreward as fact on this thread.

Leaving aside Myra Hindley and Rosemary West for the moment, you might like to consider this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8022861.stm


As for your thoughts on the death sentence, in my opinion that would put society on the same level as the offenders. Sorry, but you either believe in the sanctity of life or you don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 06:00 AM

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 03:00 AM

SRS, Akeneaton's statement that you quote above is factually correct, except that the victims are almost excusively white but not totally.
There have been Sikh and Hindu victims.

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 23 Jan 11 - 09:43 AM

The victims are not all sluts.
They were not all picked up on the streets late at night.
Those ones tended to be girls within the care system.
Girls from respectable families have given their stories of being enticed away from shopping malls in daylight.
Not all white either.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:47 AM

his dismissive reaction to the fact that Hindu and Sikh girls are also targetted.

Don, far from dismissing it, it was me who first pointed that fact out, both on this thread and on the 2010 thread!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:41 AM

""And NO Don, with the exception of this thread you are somewhere off to the right of the conservative party on many issues.""

That Richard is a plain straightforward lie.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 05:39 AM

""Or skewed reporting?""

I think that's the answer Dave, and it's really quite logical. We know that the European sex trafficking and prostitution racket is both pervasive and highly organised, and while the police are constantly dealing with the problem by arresting the girls, there has been little progress in getting at the underlying structure of the problem.

These Pakistani (though they aren't actually exclusively either Pakistani or Muslim) gangs are a comparatively new development, and not only do they stand out from the crowd, but also they are largely amateurs.

The press seize upon them as different and because scandal sells papers. Never forget that the agenda of the Media is primarily to make money, not diseminate news.

So, what better for selling papers than to highlight the misdeeds of a group which happens to be a part of the current Media bogeyman, the Muslim?

Keith demands court case specifics for my claims. All he needs to do is a little research on the ages of girls charged with or convicted of soliciting.

But he won't, because it would spoil his "All Muslims have the tendency to groom and rape WHITE girls" mindset.

That explains his dismissive reaction to the fact that Hindu and Sikh girls are also targetted.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:52 AM

I agree with all that Musket (except the bit about me obviously).
Perpetuating the differences is obscene enough, but using recent court cases to prove the point is neither helpful or decent

I agree, and deny that anyone here has done that.
I was only drawn into this by people denying that there was an issue at all.
There clearly is an issue and I think it is not helpful to deny it.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Musket
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:42 AM

Oh come on. Why don't we have a thread where Keith A and Jim Carroll thrash out where they have opposing views? Nobody else need look at it. it can be especially for them. Everybody else takes it in turns to pick on a subject and leave them to it for the following week.

Sorry chaps, but every bloody thread which has intangibles and difficult subjects ends up with what you two call debate and most others call contradiction.

Jim - Keith is a little Englander. Live with it.

Keith - Jim has the whinging sorry outlook of your typical expat. Live with it.

Sorted.

Back to subject;

It occurs to me that although I live in North Lincolnshire, not exactly a melting pot of differing cultures, when we put on a dinner or throw a BBQ, we have pots and a BBQ purely for Halal meat and similar for vegetarian food. When we make our annual vat of mincemeat for mince pies etc, we make a few without suet in the mix. We also have learned to be inventive with interesting alcohol free drinks rather than just offer orange juice. (More wine and beer for me, but that's another matter...)

Why? No reason other than society evolved and people live, work and play alongside each other whilst the usual commentators make a lot of money and influence by noting differences. Twenty years ago, the originally foreign colleagues and their families we call close friends would have been wary and formed their own circles of friends. Ditto us.

Increasingly, it isn't the situation. Perpetuating the differences is obscene enough, but using recent court cases to prove the point is neither helpful or decent. I have no solutions, but neither have I read any above.


(An aside; Bridge seems to heap praise on Austin Mitchell MP. He broke the solicitor stranglehold on buying your own home. Top man, managed to break an obscene monopoly and allow more people to become good small time capitalists. Mind you, would you buy a house in Grimsby?)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:31 AM

E.Europe child trafficking.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2003/10/traf-o25.html

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:25 AM

I was wrong about child trafficking from abroad.
It is mostly from SE Asia though, and not all are trafficked for sex.
BBC.
There is currently no official figure for the number of victims trafficked into the country each year.

However, the report said 712 adult victims and 234 child victims were reported last year to the National Referral Mechanism, the official body that identifies and looks after those caught up in trafficking.

Of the victims referred in 2010, 524 were adults and 186 were children.

It is thought the increase could be explained by improvements in identifying victims, although campaigners say the figures of those being trafficked could be far higher as many victims choose not to come forward for fear of being deported.

The report suggested an increase in the number of children being forced into crime, including street begging.

The Child Exploitation and Online Protection Centre estimates there are about 300 child trafficking victims in the UK every year.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:20 AM

I know about E.European trafficking, but I really have never heard of under age kids being trafficked here.

You have stated repeatedly that these crimes are exclusive Muslims,
Lie.
I never have.
I have often stated that these specific crimes are mostly BP, which is a fact, but only in response to denial.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 04:07 AM

Keith
You have stated repeatedly that these crimes are exclusive Muslims, your latest gem was 'no European gangs running underage girls' - to borrow one of your own phrases, "all lies".
Please don't hesitate to ask for further examples, plenty to choose from
And Jack Straw et al's warning about using these cases for racist purposes - I assume you are going to continue to ignore this request
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 03:19 AM

Well Lizzie's plan would solve the unemployment problem. Whole squads of executioners working flat out to kill all yhose people.

They say Henry VIII had about seventy two thousand people executed in his reign. That would be a drop in the ocean if you killed all paedophiles, anyone who had hired a prostitue, presumably all the prostitutes, all the pimps, all the phone sex workers, all the people who phoned them..... I mean its all sex traffic.

Auswitzch would be a new standard in moderation.

Just cos you're different to these people doesn't give you the right to kill them, Lizzie.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 13 - 02:56 AM

Mysha and last Guest, I agree that faith has no relevance to these offences.
We have her large Indian Muslim and African Muslim communities, none of whom have been involved.

Jim, I do not challenge anything in your post except its relevance.
Here is an update on the Oxford trial.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-21125565

Such a crime would get maximum media coverage whoever was accused.
The only such that have ever been reported, just in the last 4 years, are the ones I am referring to.
A feature they share in common is that the crimes were reported and ignored years before.

Subject: Some things I am certain of and some I'm not
From: Mysha
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 11:20 PM

Hi,

I'm from a culture where, 150 years ago, women could be killed if they had lost their honour, 100 years ago women had no right to vote, 50 years ago women were expected to mind the house and children, and 25 years ago university was a mostly male affair. I'm a male, and in the group I was with last Sunday, females prepared the food and did the dishes. Does that make me a bigot?

I'm a member of a forum where guest posters are welcome, provided they post with a distinguishing nom de plume. I've been raised not to judge if I can not even recognise my own faults. How should I regard a thread where quite a few messages are posted by "Guest"?

I've just watched a television program about the rise of humans. This thread, according to its title, is about "Muslim men" and about "white girls". What are those?

Bye
                                                                Mysha

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 09:44 PM

A lot of garbage in this thread.

Most Muslims are not extreme anything.They are trying to get along, do their job, feed their families and raise their kids like everybody else.

Many Muslims are white Caucasian or white in whatever classification.
The "white race" or Caucasian has many representatives in Asia, including the Indian subcontinent.

In our city, Calgary (1.2 million metro), we elected a Muslim mayor. He is excellent in the job, does a good job of advertizing the Foothills City, and can have the job for as long as he wants it.

Extremists or crazy people are not confined to any one race.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 07:12 PM

But, as we are no lorger obliged to take responsibility for ourselves, how can we be expected to take responsibility for society?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 07:09 PM

"Liberalism" will find a way of excusing anything Lizzie...no matter how vile.....except of course, those who do not toe the party line.

The unforgiven!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 06:34 PM

There are many problems going on here and every one has their pet hobby horse concerning Muslims wether for or against.
if you believe me or not it does not matter, these are facts Muslim boys believe that white men are infidels and white women are below contempt. Boys brought up, born in this country know how to play the game, incomers from the likes of Iran Iraq Syria etc don't, female teachers have a hard time with them, spitting at them is not uncommon plain disobedience again is not uncommon and whilst their mothers try, as soon as father gets involved women should know their place. The sad fact is the world is changing, we in this country are not, we think our sense of fair play works as soon as anyone cross,s over the borders. Not what may wanted to be heard here but we as a country have to wake up and stop smelling the flowers and start thinking how other people see us and our children

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 05:54 PM

There are Labour MPs or recent ex-MPs who are fairly left - try Marshall-Andrews, or Austin Mitchell. There are leftish writers - Polly Toynbee for example. There are other British left wing parties - Respect, Socialist Workers, Socialist Labour Party, etc.

And NO Don, with the exception of this thread you are somewhere off to the right of the conservative party on many issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 05:21 PM

Thanks Don, a very sensible and civilised answer. But it does not address the issue of why, whatever you call the crime, are more Moslems being convicted of it that non-Moslems? Is it skewed policing? Or skewed reporting? I would hope it is one or the other because, if not, my belief that everyone is the same under the skin will be shot to hell!

Surely there is some simple explanation of why this is happening. I just cannot see what it is yet.


Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 03:04 PM

""recent statistical analysis has shown that for example the panel membership on the flagship "Question Time" is strongly skewed in favour of the right.""

Name one left wing party which could be invited to form part of that panel Richard.

Since the program panel consists of political party reps, with a token celeb, and the British Communist Party is non existent, anything left of centre is impossible.

I'm on the far left of the Tories, which places me to the left of many Labour Party members and MPs.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 03:01 PM

Some examples of the "uniqueness" of Muslim sexual abuse of underage girls in Britain.

"More than 5,000 underage girls are working as prostitutes in Britain, and the number caught soliciting has doubled since 1990, according to a three-month investigation."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/underage-prostitution-doubled-in-five-years-1601277.html

That's the hard truth to face up to. Notions of racial groups and 'grooming' are a distraction. The idea that men come along, identify vulnerable girls and exploit them has some truth in them, but it also masks a deeper reality of children whose lives are a state of such emotional confusion that affection, abandonment, violence, love and abuse become fused into a single crushing experience of life-long neglect and exploitation.
It's much simpler to blame Asian gangs, Belgian bullies and street-wise groomers. It simplifies the problem of poverty and neglect and exonerates the fundamental injustices in society that are at the root of sexual exploitation. It allows us to look the other way and, tragically, in doing so, prolongs the abuse of children.
http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/2011/12/02/child-sexual-exploitation-uk/

There has been a growing awareness of human trafficking, in particular the trafficking of women and underage girls into the UK for forced prostitution. A particular high profile case resulted in the conviction of five Albanians who trafficked a 16 year old Lithuanian girl and forced her to have sex with as many as 10 men a day.[40]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_United_Kingdom

A customer may negotiate an exchange directly with a prostituted child in order to receive sexual gratification, or through an intermediary (pimp) who controls or oversees the child's activities for profit. The provision of children for sexual purposes may also be an object of exchange between adults. Many children are prostituted over the Internet with the use of webcams to facilitate this abuse, and child pornography may be linked to the prostitution.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_United_Kingdom

UK A HUB FOR EUROPEAN CHILD PROSTITUTION
http://www.iol.co.za/news/world/uk-a-hub-for-european-child-prostitution-1.78006#.UP2cKH5BAvQ

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 02:54 PM

""but I believe that we are discussing crimes related to the grooming and sexual abuse of underage girls here are we not?""

Indeed we are, and grooming is and always has been the preferred method for recruiting new young stock in the prostitution and sex slavery industries worldwide.

These Muslim gangs are doing much the same thing, procuring girls for sex, and that's the reason why I say that our resident Muslim bashers (including the press) are playing down that fact in order to serve their racial hate agenda.

You, I know, are not foolish enough to believe that a bunch of 21st century Pakistani Muslims have invented a totally new way to get their jollies.

Those who do believe that need to broaden their horizons and do some serious reading, but they won't, because they're too busy doing what they claim the Muslims are doing, reducing a whole culture to subhuman status.

THAT is the point I'm making.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 02:44 PM

Oh, do the courts always get it right? Are all convictions correct? What are you going to do to bring the wrongly executed back to life?

Idiots.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 02:44 PM

Mysterious and profitable? A bit rich coming from a solicitor if you don't mind me saying so.. I'm only mysterious in that I don't conform to a single outlook and apply it to all situations unlike some of the usual suspects in this thread.

Nice to see a weird yet somehow vaguely feminist view reading its head in this debate.   That's right dear, execute societies problems on the basis of overcrowding. Now be a dear and put the kettle on. Might at least get something useful from your presence on this thread.

No real answer to this issue other than each case on merit and an understanding of UK society's expectations. Sadly it will take time to get there, but other than the disgusting remedies put forward by unhinged idiots, I for one fail to see an an alternative?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 02:25 PM

Yes Lizzie there are natural laws, abuses of which are irredeemable.
Sexual abuse, or rape and murder of children crosses that line.

It is the type of crime that makes the skin of most humans creep.

The ughhhh factor is max!

I'm generally against capital punishment, but would be happy to put these creatures out of their misery.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 01:53 PM

Automatic death penalty for ALL paedophiles and ALL who are involved in the 'sex-trafficking' business in any way.

That would rid the world of many humans who, imo, have no right to be here in the first place.

Time for The Men Of The World to stand up as One, for it ain't women who are having sex with little girls, even though, I'm sure, *some* sick women won't be averse to making money from this trade.

I'll say it again, until The Men Of The World fix this, it will continue...and continue....and continue....



Sorry, NO sympathy for anyone who is involved in doing this to children, no matter who they are, where they come from, what background, race OR religion...

The world is far too overcrowded anyway, so the sooner we just say "Your life is over." to this kind of scum, the better..We've all endured it for way too long and far, FAR too many children and young women (some young men too) have had their lives torn apart from such an early age...and so many never recover.

It is totally abhorrent and inexcusable.....

Lizzie
A Mother...who would kill anyone who hurt her children...as would, probably, most Mothers (and Fathers)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 01:36 PM

"The East European cases do not involve school kids." "No case involving gangs pimping,"
Of course they ******* do - what world do you live in?
It's an acknowledged fact that many of the asylum seekers brought from Eastern Europe are families with school aged children, some of whom are put on the game.
No gangs pimping - are you mad? There's a whole network of Eastern European sex smugglers operating out of Southampton and Dover alone.
Perhaps you could provide evidence to the contrary - somebody has already pointed out that facts and figures are virtually non-existent, but there have been a number of BBC documentaries on school aged girls being run as prostitutes.
I suggest you read CS's posting again (if you've bothered in the first place.
And you have ignored our own 'Lolita' ladies who have long been a part of the prostitution racket - you really are twisting the facts to suit the agenda.
I take it you are not going to acknowledge Jack Straw's (and the other's) warning about not using these cases for racist and cultural conclusions - you were the one who lauded him as one of your experts.
you may not recognise it as the same crime - but your "experts" did.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 11:48 AM

999, thanks. There are certain similarities but I would not regard that as the same crime.
Likewise CS.

We are discussing a very distinct and mercifully rare crime, and these similar but distinct crimes just muddies the water.

Having said that, there really is nothing new to be said about the original.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 11:38 AM

How would you know truth or reality when you move, like the Lord Mandelson, in such mysterious (and profitable) ways?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Musket
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 11:12 AM

For media bias, read "anything that doesn't accord with the Bridge view."

Back to reality..

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Jan 13 - 11:09 AM

KeithA: "The East European cases do not involve school kids."

I don't know anything too much about East European human trafficking gangs in particular, but one statistic I have read was an estimate by UNICEF that 2 Million children were trafficked for sex globally in 2007. It's both an internal trade in numerous countries (including both developing and developed nations) as well as an international one. I haven't found the statistics concerning exactly who's responsible for this huge global trade in child sex trafficking, but it stands to reason that Pakistani gangs can't be in control of all of it.