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Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs

MGM·Lion 21 Feb 13 - 11:07 AM
Phil Edwards 21 Feb 13 - 08:31 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 16 Feb 13 - 06:08 AM
Phil Edwards 16 Feb 13 - 04:34 AM
GUEST,Doc John 15 Feb 13 - 01:03 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 15 Feb 13 - 08:32 AM
GUEST 15 Feb 13 - 07:48 AM
Allan Conn 14 Feb 13 - 06:04 PM
Phil Edwards 14 Feb 13 - 03:44 PM
Jim McLean 14 Feb 13 - 09:59 AM
GUEST,henryp 14 Feb 13 - 09:12 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Feb 13 - 08:36 AM
MartinRyan 14 Feb 13 - 08:32 AM
MGM·Lion 14 Feb 13 - 08:28 AM
Jim McLean 14 Feb 13 - 07:12 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 14 Feb 13 - 07:12 AM
MartinRyan 14 Feb 13 - 06:21 AM
MartinRyan 14 Feb 13 - 06:21 AM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 14 Feb 13 - 06:09 AM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 14 Feb 13 - 04:36 AM
Phil Edwards 13 Feb 13 - 05:35 PM
Jim McLean 13 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM
Phil Edwards 13 Feb 13 - 02:55 PM
MGM·Lion 13 Feb 13 - 01:56 PM
Jim McLean 13 Feb 13 - 01:36 PM
MGM·Lion 13 Feb 13 - 01:28 PM
Jim McLean 13 Feb 13 - 01:21 PM
Snuffy 13 Feb 13 - 12:59 PM
GUEST,Big Al Whittle 13 Feb 13 - 12:19 PM
Phil Edwards 13 Feb 13 - 09:24 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Feb 13 - 08:40 AM
Young Buchan 13 Feb 13 - 07:52 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Feb 13 - 07:12 AM
GUEST,henryp 13 Feb 13 - 07:10 AM
Jim McLean 13 Feb 13 - 06:48 AM
MGM·Lion 13 Feb 13 - 06:26 AM
MGM·Lion 11 Feb 13 - 06:22 AM
Phil Edwards 10 Feb 13 - 08:07 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Feb 13 - 04:52 AM
Phil Edwards 10 Feb 13 - 04:24 AM
freda underhill 10 Feb 13 - 02:14 AM
Phil Edwards 09 Feb 13 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,Allan Conn 04 Feb 13 - 12:49 PM
GUEST,John Foxen 04 Feb 13 - 11:32 AM
Phil Edwards 04 Feb 13 - 10:00 AM
Nigel Parsons 04 Feb 13 - 07:36 AM
Allan Conn 04 Feb 13 - 06:50 AM
Jim McLean 04 Feb 13 - 04:51 AM
Stanron 03 Feb 13 - 03:18 PM
John MacKenzie 03 Feb 13 - 03:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Feb 13 - 11:07 AM

Quite. Why do so many on here find it so difficult to grasp the patent fact that for the greatest part of out history - up to, say, some time after the 1st World War - the vast majority of the people have been perfectly content to live sunder a monarchy, finding in the institution a real sense of security? Never mind this vain search for antimonarchist folk songs; let's just see some acknowledgment by Fred & his lot of the unarguable fact that widespread songs like all those Whitsun & Easter hymns ended as a matter of course with a loyal "God Bless our King and Queen and all the royal folk" stanza: listen again to the Waddon Whitsuntide Hymn on the Young Tradition's first record, say.

People just liked having a royal family to focus their feelings of patriotic security on. It is simply idle to deny it. So...

Live with it!

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 21 Feb 13 - 08:31 AM

The trouble is, there's very little evidence that anyone wanted to write songs like that, outside of brief and unusual periods of popular mobilisation. You might as well say that the risk to the singer is the reason why there aren't any songs about desecrating the local church and stringing up the vicar - it's certainly true that anyone singing a song like that would have had a hard time of it, but there's no reason to believe anyone wanted to.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 06:08 AM

If they were dangerous to sing then they were dangerous to write. Ipso facto, I don't think many of them existed in the first place.

One or two exceptions do come to mind however, in the form of Luddite songs and Captain Swing songs. I suspect thoughh these would have been sung in highly clandestine circumstances. Also, in Ireland especially, quite a few songwriters got round the problem by not naming the object of their sedition and dressing them up as love songs or as laments for their dear departed blackbird or whatever.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Feb 13 - 04:34 AM

The point I was making was that one doesn't come across too many openly seditious songs, about the monarchy or anything else, simply because the singing of such songs was too bloody dangerous.

It's possible. The problem is that we don't seem to have any evidence of such songs existing in the first place.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 01:03 PM

Here's my Jubilee effort. Tune: Lilly Marlene

Tear down all your bunting, rip down every flag.
Why celebrate sixty years of that old bag?
She may wave and open things with all her might,
But still remains a parasite.
That's from Jub'lee Dodgers; we've all pissed off to France.

The French they did the right thing in 1793,
They cut off their King's head, then that of Queen Marie.
The Russians they did the right thing too
The shot the Tsar and his whole damn crew.
There's plenty of mine shafts waiting, since Maggie closed the pits.

What a silly circus is a street party:
A dried up boiled ham sandwich and a cup of luke warm tea.
Dodging the raindrops and cheering the queen,
The silliest farce I've ever seen.
That's from the Jub'lee Dodgers; we've all pissed off to France


Then the wine prevented any further artistic (?) creation


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 08:32 AM

Apologies for omitting my name from the last post.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 13 - 07:48 AM

MtheGM. Somerville was actually sentenced to 200 lashes, not 500 as I thought and not 100 as Wikipedia claims. His sentence was commuted after 100 lashes, after which he spent six days in a hospital, recovering from his ordeal. My apologies for any confusion I may have caused, but I was going off my memory when I should have taken the trouble to look up Somerville's autobiography.

Please note though that I did not say Somerville was tried for sedition. I said, and this was purely for the sake of brevity, that he was flogged for an act which the authorities considered seditious. He was in fact set up deliberately and precisely because he hadn't broken any law of sedition.

The point I was making was that one doesn't come across too many openly seditious songs, about the monarchy or anything else, simply because the singing of such songs was too bloody dangerous.

BTW. Here's the actual quote from Somerville's commanding officer, as it appears in The Autobiography of a Working Man. "Stop. Take him down, he is a young soldier". That, presumably is what counted for clemency in the British army and Wikipedia's misquote is presumably what counts for accuracy in Wikipedia.



The actual facts about Somerville. Note that it was 100 lashes not 500 to which he was sentenced; of which he received only 50, his colonel saying half-way thru that 50 were enough, "He is but a young soldier" [quoted in his Autobiography Of A Working Man, 1848]. Note also that he was NOT punished for sedition as such, as this was NOT a breach of military law; but his officers had to trump up a charge of disobedience to orders against him.

"Somerville had joined the Royal Scots Greys regiment of the British Army in December 1831. In May 1832, during the disturbances caused by the Reform Bill, Somerville wrote to a newspaper claiming that the army would protect property but would not stop citizens exercising their rights and would not support a military government. Officers in the army wanted to punish him but because he had not broke the law they ordered him at riding school to ride a unruly horse. When he dismounted and refused to remount he was court-martialled and punished with 100 lashes. He was supported by newspapers and MPs as they believed he had been punished for his political opinions. The court of inquiry acquitted his commanding officer but Somerville's questioning of the officers aroused suspicions that he had been flogged for the letter. He purchased his discharge from the army after a subscription was raised." Wikipedia


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Allan Conn
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:04 PM

"The queen will still reign over Scotland, won't she?"

They are seperate issues. The SNP's referendum looks to put an end to the Act of Union of 1707 which was when the United Kingdom of Great Britain was established when the Scottish and English parliaments were would up and a new British parliament created. The monarch will remain Head of State just as was the case prior to 1707. Any debate on that would be for the future. There are republican elements within the SNP but I suspect the leadership simply feel bringing that issue up would distract from their prime goal of independence.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 03:44 PM

I had thought we had furnished you with traditional and contemporary anti monarchist folksongs.

Lots of contemporary examples, no traditional ones. Saying "we don't want this king, we want this one instead" isn't anti-monarchist.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:59 AM

Scotland was a kingdom when she entered into the union with England. In fact both countries shared the same monarch James the 6th of Scotland who was also James the first of England. for about 100 years before the Union. If the union is dissolved then Scotland and England will revert to independent kingdoms sharing the same monarch. I am not a member of the SNP like many other republican supporters of independence.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 09:12 AM

Even now, whilst Scotland is considering its future as an independent state, I haven't heard much protest against the monarchy. The queen will still reign over Scotland, won't she?


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:36 AM

The actual facts about Somerville. Note that it was 100 lashes not 500 to which he was sentenced; of which he received only 50, his colonel saying half-way thru that 50 were enough, "He is but a young soldier" [quoted in his Autobiography Of A Working Man, 1848]. Note also that he was NOT punished for sedition as such, as this was NOT a breach of military law; but his officers had to trump up a charge of disobedience to orders against him.

"Somerville had joined the Royal Scots Greys regiment of the British Army in December 1831. In May 1832, during the disturbances caused by the Reform Bill, Somerville wrote to a newspaper claiming that the army would protect property but would not stop citizens exercising their rights and would not support a military government. Officers in the army wanted to punish him but because he had not broke the law they ordered him at riding school to ride a unruly horse. When he dismounted and refused to remount he was court-martialled and punished with 100 lashes. He was supported by newspapers and MPs as they believed he had been punished for his political opinions. The court of inquiry acquitted his commanding officer but Somerville's questioning of the officers aroused suspicions that he had been flogged for the letter. He purchased his discharge from the army after a subscription was raised." Wikipedia

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:32 AM

JIm

Yes - I think it first appeared as a broadside in Glasgow? Memory slipping... but there may well be a fair idea of the author, somewhere. I'll see if I can find my old notes.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 08:28 AM

Al -- Cam Ye O'er was an anti-Georgian song, i.e. Jacobite. The Jacobites were not anti-monarchist, they just wanted a different king ~~ a Stuart not a Hanoverian. So it was scarcely an anti-monarchist song.

Best regards

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 07:12 AM

Two years, Martin, between his hanging and the signing of the Treaty. I would have thought, considering the outrage at the time, that the song was written fairly quickly after his death. The identity of the writer is unknown although theire is a suggestion it emanated from Scotland.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 07:12 AM

Martin,

Well, I was generalising, but as far as I know, Kevin Barry was written in Ireland, immediately after his murder. I wonder if you are thinking about Johnny Thompson, the Scots footballer who was killed by a kick to the head in 1931. The song which was written about him was set to the tune of Kevin Barry.

In any event, there is plenty of evidence to indicate that the Black and Tans would have dealt viciously with anyone caught singing anything they considered seditious. Note also their lethal proscripition on anyone they caught speaking Irish, and the ban on public assemblies which resulted in the Croke Park massacre. Note also the case of Alexander Somerville, a soldier in the Royal Scots Greys, who received 500 lashes with a cat of nine tails for an act which the authorities considered seditious.

Small wonder you don't come across too many anti-monarchist songs.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:21 AM

- and apologies for the thread creep!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:21 AM

But anyone caught singing Kevin Barry, or any other republican song, in Ireland in the days before the Irish Free State treaty, would not have had many polite words to say about canards.

Interesting thought. The song appears to have first seen the light of day in Scotland, IIRC. I wonder is there any evidence of when it was first heard in Ireland? Not much time between his execution and the Treaty.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 06:09 AM

MtheGM. The idea that singing McAfferty was a chargeable offence in the army is probably the army equivalent of an urban myth. But anyone caught singing Kevin Barry, or any other republican song, in Ireland in the days before the Irish Free State treaty, would not have had many polite words to say about canards.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Feb 13 - 04:36 AM

I had thought we had furnished you with traditional and contemporary anti monarchist folksongs.

Perhaps you could be more specific. I despise the monarchy and the class system it fronts, but I would not wish to shed the blood of the members of the royal family.

I think my songs express that adequately. I think Cam Ye O'er from France, which I also posted was traditional and anti monarchist.

I'm not really sure how we have failed to fulfil the brief.

be more specific.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 05:35 PM

Très drôle, Jim. While we're here, does anyone know any traditional anti-monarchist songs?


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 02:56 PM

He removed his spectacles with his left hand, and sighed with a slight roll of his eyes heavenward. His piece in the Times had been slightly contradicted by some buffoon. "Thought not," he said to himself. "They know not what they think". He reached for his brandy glass, set his spectacles on the Georgian side table and slipped his snuff box from his elaborately decorated waistcoat. "I wonder why I write for this rag ", he murmured . "The arrogant, ignorant replies are rather tedious".


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 02:55 PM

The evidence here does seem to be in line with what Bellamy said about radical traditional songs generally - that for every traditional song saying "how oppressed we are as workers, let's overthrow the boss" there are ten saying "how happy we workers are and here's a health to the boss".

Of course, the point isn't that the people writing and singing those songs were right to think that way - just that that is the way they thought.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 01:56 PM

Threats of losing employment as an exciseman ~~ a public office ~~ is not quite the same as the executions or transportations which you suggested in your previous post would be visited on the singers of songs critical of the establishment. Do you know of any actual example of anyone suffering such a penalty for such an offence? Thought not. Any more than anyone can actually turn up the proceedings of an actual serviceman's ever having been court martialled for singing 'MacCafferty' ~~ a familiar example of such canards.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 01:36 PM

I know Robert Burns was warned he would lose his job as an Exiseman for supporting the French Revolution in verse and had to do a rapid about turn. I can understand sycophantic praise for the establishment would be allowed, nay, encouraged.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 01:28 PM

Don't think so, Jim. Singing was generally permitted as a let-off-steam outlet to prevent worse in the way of dissent. But certainly "Here's a health unto His Majesty" and "Here's a health to the king and a lasting peace" appear widespread sentiments, rather than the opposite. Even the songs of the American wars of 1776 & 1812 appear to present the sentiment that "Monarchy doesn't suit us Americans" rather than any attacks on the institution of monarchy per se. Can anyone think of any American songs opposed to the actual institution of royalty or kingship in itself? You'd expect some, but no specific example comes to mind.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 01:21 PM

Possibly anti-monarchist songs just weren't possible as the singers/writers would be executed or transported. I do know that a man named McLean (no relative unfortunately) tried to shoot Queen Victoria!


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:59 PM

Phil doesn't want "QV was a shit" or "Hit the road, Liz" - he's actually complaining about being offered that stuff when what he's really he's looking for is "Off with his head", "Cromwell had the right idea", "I've got a guillotine for you, Louis", "The only good king is a dead one" or even just "All monarchs are bastards"

Can't you come up with anything along those lines?


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 12:19 PM

Be fair Phil. I know real folksingers are always blethering on about the first world war, when they write 'in the tradition'. You can't really expect the rest of us to write songs based on the theme Queen Victoria was a shit even if she were - the people we sing to don't give a bugger.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 09:24 AM

So basically we've got

a) Traditional songs about actual (easily identifiable) kings and queens: not many of them, generally not anti-monarchist or scandalous (e.g. Queen Jane)

b) Traditional songs about more or less mythical kings and queens: tons of them, not anti-monarchist but often scandalous (King X and Queen Y shagging around, having people killed on a whim etc)

c) Traditional songs slagging off one king but saying that he should be replaced by another king: tons of them, sometimes scandalous, not anti-monarchist

d) Modern songs slagging off the monarchy in general: anti-monarchist, scandalous as you like, not traditional.

Quoting the OP:

I am looking for British songs and tunes from all ages which reflect ant-monarchist sentiments.

A: There aren't any from "all ages" - just from this age (more specifically, from the reign of the present queen).


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 08:40 AM

Drift ~~ but cannot resist mentioning here my own additional verse to that particularly fulsome hymn ~~

The malarial mosquito
The bubonic-carrying rat
He must have made the lot of them
So what do you think of that!

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Young Buchan
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:52 AM

From my time at the back of school assemblies:

All things bright and beautiful;
All creatures great and small;
All things wise and wonderful:
Prince Philip shoots them all.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:12 AM

Ah, yes, indeed, Jim. And well in the Thurso Berwick tradition of "We'll mak oor land republican in a Scottish breakaway." There indeed is true anti-monarchism. But I suspect OP was seeking something rather older, don't you?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 07:10 AM

The queen, apparently, has a Slough postcode. Robb Johnson also wrote;

God save our gracious queen, long live our noble queen
She lives in Slough
It's by the motorway, just a stone's throw away
From where the refugees all stay
She lives in Slough

She's just like you and me, with a posher lavatory
She lives in Slough
Tourists and tyrants know, it's handy for Heathrow
She wears a hat and says "Hello" ("What do you do?")
She lives in Slough

And though she owns Balmoral, and her income's immoral,
She lives in Slough
And though there's a credit squeeze, and all our wages freeze
Who get's another Jubilee? (Paid for you and me)
She lives in Slough

Alternatively;

And though she owns Balmoral, and her income's immoral,
She lives in Slough
She probably likes the view, and a good sag aloo
She probably votes Labour, too
She lives in Slough!


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:48 AM

Not traditional, M, but one verse from my song about Prince Charles:

Our king won't come from London Town
Nor yet from Donegal,
Nor will he come from Scotland,
For we'll have no king at all.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Feb 13 - 06:26 AM

"Any more anti-monarchist traditional songs? The first couple of replies suggested there were tons of them."
----
Yes ~ but, as has been pointed out, these were not actual anti-monarchist songs, but songs preferring one monarch to another: eg Jacobite, wishing Charles Edward Stuart was king instead of 'Geordie Whelps'; whereas a truly anti-monarchist song would surely be one objecting to any monarch at all, embracing a republican [or such system] pov -- a vital distinction the thread doesn't seem to have fully addressed. Any true traditional examples of this, anyone?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 11 Feb 13 - 06:22 AM

Great lover of Queen Eleanor's Confession myself: it's on my You Tube channel. First learned it from Sandy Paton IIRC.

Only really false note above is Vic Gammon's about Q Victoria "lying back and thinking of England". That might have been the advice given by their mothers to mid-C19 brides on their wedding eve according to certain dubious folklore, along with the injunction that "much as you may hate it, remember that it has happened to the dear Queen". But it is on trustworthy record, from her own diaries &c, that the Queen herself loved the sex-act and couldn't get enough of it ~~ old Albert was quite some stud from all accounts, and her protracted mourning was largely due to her deprivation & frustration. Whether any of the tales of her subsequently consoling herself with her trusted Highland ghillie John Brown have any basis in fact has of course long been much disputed.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 08:07 AM

Two fine songs - thanks!

I don't know the Brass Warming Pan, but the story is anti-Jacobite rather than anti-monarchist - "down with this King", not "down with kings". I may be wrong (actually I hope I am), but I get the impression there's not very much outright anti-monarchism in tradition.


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Subject: Lyr Add: QUEEN ELEANOR'S CONFESSION
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 04:52 AM

"Any more traditional anti-monarchist songs?"
Can't lay my hands on it at present, but I have a recording somewhere of MacColl singing the broadside "The Brass Warming Pan", which suggests that the powers-that-be of the time produced a male heir to the throne by slipping one into the queen's bed in the aforementioned vessel.
Not necessarily traditional, and probably not singable, but some of the earliest songs on royalty are to be found in Thomas Wright's 'The Political Songs of England - from the reign of John to that of Edward II'. Most are in either Latin or early French, but they come with summaries in English, and all are well annotated.
Also worth looking out is 'A Book of Scotish Pasquils (satirical pieces) 1868 (no named author, but it has been attributed to Maidment).
Peggy Seeger used to sing a beautiful ballad called "Fair Rosamund" about the seduction of Henry II's mistress Rosamund, who was eventually poisoned Queen Eleanor.
From memory:

I have a sister, young Clifford, he says,
A sister no-one knows..
She has a colour in her cheeks,
Like drops of blood in snow,
Like drops of blood in snow.

She has a waist, a waist, a waist,
Like to my silver cane,
And I wouldn't for ten thousand pounds
King Henry know her name
King Henry know her name.

The king being up in a bower so high,
Hidden close and still,
And every word young Clifford spoke,
He wrote down in a bill
He wrote down in a bill.

..... cant remember verse

The first fair line that she looked on,
It made her laugh and smile
And the second line that she looked on
The tears they did run down,
The tears they did run down.
Cursed be my brother Clifford,
Cursed may he be,
Why can't he dote on horse or hounds,
That he must dote on me?
That he must dote on me?

My own personal favourite about the gettings-up-to of royalty.


QUEEN ELEANOR'S CONFESSION.

Queen Eleanor's sick and she's very, very sick,
She's sick and like to die,
And she has sent for two friars from France
To pardon her sins e're she die.

When the king came to hear of this
And angry man was he.
And he has sent for the Earl Marshall
And bid him come speedily.

Now you'll put on a friar's robe
And I'll put on another.
And we'll go in before the queen
To pardon her sins together.

Oh no, oh no, cried the Earl Marshall
Such thing can never be,
For if the queen got word of this
High hanged I will be.

Now I swear by the hilt of my good broadsword
And by the heavens so high,
That not one drop of your blood shall be spilt,
Earl Marshall you shall not die.

So he's put on a friar's robe
And the king's put on another,
And they've gone in before the queen
To pardon her sins together.

Now the first great sin that ever I did
I will to thee unfold
Earl Marshall had my maidenhead
And the truth to you I have told.

Now that was a sin and a very great sin,
But pardoned it must be
Amen, amen, cried Earl Marshall,
And a very feared man was he.

Now the second great sin that ever I did,
And a grave sin it was too;
For we've carried poison for seven years
To poison King Henry.

Now that was a sin and a very great sin,
But pardoned it must be.
Amen, amen, cried the Earl Marshall
And a very feared man was he.

Now had I not sworn by the hilt of my sword,
And by the heavens so high,
That not one drop of your blood would be spilt,
Earl Marshall you would hang high.

Now she's turned her head away from the king,
With her face turned to the wall.
And they've heard no more of her secret sins,
That she had not been a maiden at all.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 04:24 AM

Any more anti-monarchist traditional songs? The first couple of replies suggested there were tons of them.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Feb 13 - 02:14 AM

The Old Divide and Rule by Alistair Hulett - trad in style..


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 09 Feb 13 - 05:04 PM

Any more traditional anti-monarchist songs?


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE TREE OF LIBERTY (Robert Burns)
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 12:49 PM

"The Tree of Liberty" attributed to Burns more than hints at an anti-monarchist view or at least attacks overt monarchial power even if it is specifically talking about France before saying the Tree doesn't exist between Tweed and Thames. Several verses are

Heard ye o' the tree o' France,
I watna what's the name o't;
Around the tree the patriots dance,
Weel Europe kens the fame o't.
It stands where ance the Bastile stood,
A prison built by kings, man,
When Superstition's hellish brood
Kept France in leading-strings, man.

But vicious folk aye hate to see
The works o' Virtue thrive, man;
The courtly vermin's banned the tree,
And grat to see it thrive, man;
King Loui' thought to cut it down,
When it was unco sma', man
For this the watchman cracked his crown,

There are also letters from Burns to a Mrs Dunlop, who he fell out with over the issue where he states that he can't sympathise with whining over the execution of certain personages! His views got him in enough bother without specifically attacking the British Crown which may well have seen him arrested.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 11:32 AM

Does this one count?
The bastard king of England


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 10:00 AM

Just out of interest, are there any traditional anti-monarchist songs? Myriads, says Taconicus. Hundreds, says Steve. But all anyone has come up with is one (well-known) Jacobite song and one (obscure) anti-Jacobite one, neither of which is anti-monarchist at all.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 07:36 AM

Of course, if you're truly after "Anti-monarchist" songs, maybe America (or, more recently, Australia) might prove more fertile soil.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Allan Conn
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 06:50 AM

Mind don't mean to harp on but Cam Ye O'er Frae France isn't really an anti-monarchist song either. It is anti-Hanovarian. There is a difference between disliking who is on the throne to disliking the very idea of there being a throne!


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 Feb 13 - 04:51 AM

I've written a few:
Maggie's Waddin'
The Royal Horses
Prince Charles
The English Royal Family
The German Tour
The Queen's Speech ....


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: Stanron
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 03:18 PM

Don't overlook 'London bridge is falling down'. The king, forgotten which one, gives the income from London bridge to his wife. She can't see any point in wasting it on maintainance, hence the song.


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Subject: RE: Anti-Monarchist Folk Songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Feb 13 - 03:13 PM

Victoria we're coming for you soon
Victoria, it may be when the moon
Is shining on December frost around the flowers of June
But we're coming for you soon, Victoria
*****************************************************************
Oh Paddy dear and did you hear the awful news they say
Princess Margaret and Lord Snowdon They have joined the IRA
They're drilling in the mountains to the sound of fife and drums
Young Tony's taking snapshots while yon Maggie fires a gun
*****************************************************************
The sea o the sea id the graw geal mo chridhe Sp)
And long may she roll between England and me
It's a sure guarantee that some hour we'll be free
Thank christ we're surrounded by water.


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