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Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Apr 13 - 11:54 AM "Not to know me argues yourselves unknown ..." Milton, Paradise Lost, Bk IV. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Apr 13 - 11:52 AM I am Michael Grosvenor Myer, as every regular Mudcatter well knows ~~ it is a familiar abbreviation, not a pseudonym. I sneer at nothing; I simply have my own opinions which are not those of clearly sneerworthy-if-I-could-be-bothered lefty-boobies like you, Broadbent, whoever you might be. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,Jasper Broadbent Date: 12 Apr 13 - 11:42 AM Who is this patronising boring old fart MtheGM, an apologist for Thatcher and everything else right wing. He hides behind a pseudonym and sneers. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Apr 13 - 11:38 AM but not anyone with an ounce of actual taste",.., .,,. 'Actual taste' ==ing what SFJack happens to approve? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!??????????? Just asking |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Stu Date: 12 Apr 13 - 11:05 AM "Why are you all being so negative?" 1) It's a tory propaganda rally not a funeral. There's an air of supremacy about those crowing over this whole fiasco that makes for unedifying viewing to say the least. Not least is the appalling display of hypocrisy coming from those suits all over the media saying the Radio 1 should not play a song that's charted as it might offend a small part of the population whilst forcing millions who suffered under the Thatcher government to endure endless coverage about the funeral, which they're paying for. Which brings me to . . . 2) It's costing a fair wodge of our money at a time when austerity is causing real hardship. Unbelievably in this day and age, principles still count for some people and whether it's 3p or 3 quid it's wrong. This makes it: a) insensitive b) inappropriate c) a tasteless display of ostentatiousness (the sort beloved by tories but not anyone with an ounce of actual taste). If people do riot at the funeral, then it's hardly surprising under these circumstances. 3) Did I say it's boorish and tasteless to use dead people to enforce political viewpoints? The tories are getting good at this and are shameless in using dead people for their own ends (i.e. Gideon's appalling, soulless conflating of the Philpot case with welfare reform). This funeral and the death of Mrs. Thatch is being used to trumpet the triumph of consumerism, monetarist economics, protection of privilege at any cost, war mongering and the whole ethos of conservatism. Oh, and Tony Blair is a tosser. Just sayin' |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,CS Date: 12 Apr 13 - 10:53 AM "It'll get enormous tv viewing figures, betcha." I don't know, viewing figures for the special Thatcher progs shown on her death, seemed to suggest the viewers weren't all that interested. I seem to remember someone posting them on this thread. I also seem to remember at least one special lagging behind repeats of something not very exciting at all. However if they are going to televise the big glossy funeral show, I hope at least one TV station will have the gumption to provide an 'alternative' much as they do for the Christmas Queen's speech. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Apr 13 - 10:29 AM But a great number of people like them. Why are you all being so negative? It'll get enormous tv viewing figures, betcha. If you don't want to watch, don't switch that channel on. & don't tell me you ~~ any of you moaning ~~ are going to be inconvenienced by the roads closed in London for the occasion, or are going to have to forego a new pair of shoes for Baby because of the three-halfpence the occasion might just cost you personally. There's someone on this thread who keeps going on about the greatness of Attlee - Dick, isn't it? - forgetting that Attlee's attempts at running the country were sabotaged by the vile Sir Stafford Cripps, Bart, a hereditary almost-aristocrat who had from somewhere got the idea that deprivation & ascetism = virtue and right-living, & dragged the government & the nation with him, just when people had won a war and wanted to relax a bit. Lost the Labour Party, incl Attlee, power for ever in the sense of ever coming back with anything approaching socialist policies which everyone had had up to here at the end of those dire 6 years; when, as they say, we won the war but lost the peace. The point being that I much too often feel the spirit of the 'we-know-what-is-best-for-everyone-and-it-isn't-anything-they-might-want' loathsome Cripps living on in threads going the way this one is going. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 12 Apr 13 - 09:57 AM I wonder if it's time to make a decided ruling on 'State-type' funerals once and for all. Perhaps just the Sovereign and immediate family, and all others to be private affairs. I reckon all this hype began with Diana's demise, the funeral arrangements for whom seemed to balloon out of all proportion. If an official guiding rule were set in place, these hyped-up shows of panoply would be a thing of the past. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Apr 13 - 09:44 AM The cost isn't really the central issue. it's the whole display of military panoply, treating it as a solemn national occasion with the implication the country is united in paying tribute to something everyone reverences. That's just not appropriate for a party leader who was and still is held in contempt by aat least half the country. It feels like a calculated insult who see her as someone who did enormous harm to us all. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 12 Apr 13 - 09:06 AM We were up in London yesterday on a coach trip, and it was rather strange that the things we went to see were apposite to the Margaret Thatcher issue. Firstly, the coach passed the statue of Winston Churchill. We were told he hadn't wanted a statue for pigeons to poo on. But they made one anyway, and electrified it to stop the birds landing there. We went into St Margaret's Westminster and saw three books of condolence set on a table. No-one was writing in them, and when I looked, there weren't many entries. Like Churchill, Mrs Thatcher hadn't wanted a State Funeral or a fly-past etc, as she thought it a waste of money. There was a lovely statue of Nelson Mandela, and I imagine he hadn't asked for that either, but there it stood nevertheless. So famous people don't always demand adulation; those in authority tend to take the bit between the teeth and go ahead. The Queen had no choice but to attend the funeral if asked to, she generally does what her advisors suggest. BUT, when we tried to get into Westminster Abbey, we found it would cost £36!!! So we turned away in disgust. We then went out of curiosity to look at Harrod's (mainly to get in out of the cold!) and we saw some headphones in a glass case that unbelievably had a price tag of £20,000 (yes, all those noughts!) and other stuff costing vast sums. Rich folk were buying all this bling. Chauffeurs were landing wealthy ladies at the door, swanky lassies (Sloane Rangers?) went by, loaded with Harrod's bags etc etc. But down the Underground our hearts were wrung by beggars and musicians looking frozen and thin. We gave what we could. And going home, we passed the City just as the financial nobs were coming out and heading for the swish bars, wearing very classy suits and looking very prosperous. All this made me think deeply in the coach on the way home about Rich and Poor. The wealth is obviously not shared around. There are definitely terribly poor folk in actual need. And there are still (perhaps even more so) two Britains. Just a few thoughts which I'm sharing with you. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,spb at work Date: 12 Apr 13 - 08:29 AM Part of the justification must be that prominent births, deaths and marraiges are often used to bury bad news. All this is deflecting attention away from the nasty benefit, worker rights, and access to justice reforms now being implemented. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: The Sandman Date: 12 Apr 13 - 07:16 AM I have not made any malicious comments about mrs thatcher Don, I have relatives that are affected by this, two relatives that need either hospital care, or a carer, money spent on this funeral, means imo less money available for those needing hospital care. the fact that i live in ireland does not mean i am not entitled to an opinion, you can attribute what you like but your post portrays you in a bad light. I have not made any personal attacks on mrs thatcher, i have stuck to facts and analysing her politcal and economic record, it is a shame that you have to make malicious remaks about my motives , when you know nothing bout my background or my relatives who require either hospital care or a carer to look after them, you are completely out of order. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 12 Apr 13 - 07:02 AM ""why is so much money being spent on one prime ministers funeral, how can this be justified., meanwhile the present uk government is enforcing draconian cuts, are we living in cloud cuckoo land"" Given that you live, in point of fact, in a totally unaffected "cloud cuckoo land", I can only attribute the passion of your concerns about the cost to pure malice Dick. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,CS Date: 12 Apr 13 - 06:59 AM Blandiver, I watched Glenda the other day, and found myself clapping several times! |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Apr 13 - 06:33 AM She called ANC a terrorist organisation, but did not call Mandela a terrorist. She was instrumental in getting him released. He visited her in London to thank her. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,Blandiver Date: 12 Apr 13 - 06:02 AM I'm sorry. I'll post that again. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8 |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,Blandiver Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:59 AM Sorry if this has already been posted here, but it's worth watching more than the once! www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8 |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:35 AM "Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and destructive Prime Minister of modern times," he wrote. "Remember, she called Mandela a terrorist and took tea with the torturer and murderer Pinochet." ,.., Let me say that I think this perfectly fair comment, and cogently expressed, even though I would obviously not agree to any great extent with its evaluations. It is a proper and courteous statement of Mr Loach's view. Be it noted that he has expressed it without the use of any of that ill-expressed obloquy and abusive terminology of the sort which has marred and disgraced and degraded so many contributions to the thread. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:13 AM Sorry Jim, McL, didn't see yours, but worth repeating Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Jim Carroll Date: 12 Apr 13 - 05:09 AM A moving tribute from Ken Loach Jim Carroll LOACH REMEMBERS THE OTHER MAGGIE If youve been watching the Thatcher Channel (that's to say, any channel) over the last week, you may have found yourself wondering when Ken Loach, unreconstructed socialist, was going to turn up and ruin the indecent wake. The veteran director - whose recent documentary, 'The Spirit of '45' bemoaned Mrs. Thatcher's demolition of the post-war consensus - did eventually issue a characteristically robust statement. "Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and destructive Prime Minister of modern times," he wrote. "Remember, she called Mandela a terrorist and took tea with the torturer and murderer Pinochet. How should we honour her? Let's privatise her funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid. It's what she'd have wanted." Very nicely put, sir. Irish Times (The Ticket) 12.4.13 |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: The Sandman Date: 12 Apr 13 - 03:01 AM why is so much money being spent on one prime ministers funeral, how can this be justified., meanwhile the present uk government is enforcing draconian cuts, are we living in cloud cuckoo land |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,Jck Sprocket Date: 11 Apr 13 - 06:35 PM From the notorious "no such thing as society" interview for Woman's Own: Well, we import far too much timber and really, if Sweden and Norway can grow their own timber—they are rather more to the north of us—then we really ought to be able to grow quite a lot of our own. No wonder her grasp of geography wowed the Americans. She must have been coached by Denis for that. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: akenaton Date: 11 Apr 13 - 06:02 PM The "right to buy scheme" was a political masterstroke, boosting the housing market.....while at the same time giving millions of people "something to lose" Nothing concentrates the mind like having a little "something to lose". Why do you think we are so accepting of what is being done to us? Before long they will be into our savings....helping themselves. Think it couldn't happen here?.....Dream on! Of course in the long term the RTBS was always going to be a social disaster, widely abused, many made fortunes buying the best council property and re-selling at hugely inflated prices. The residue of council houses were in ghetto's inhabited by the underclass.....it became impossible young folks to get a decent home without saddling themselves with lifelong debt. To all intents and purposes council housing sceased to exist. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:50 PM The roe of parties is to try to shape society in a specific way. Winning elections is important as a way of avhieving that, otherwise the victories are pointless, except as a way of furthering the careers of the politicians involved, which is competely insignificant to everyone else. Ending the war in Northern Ireland was a great achievement. We can be grateful that Tony Blair didn't prevent other people, notably Mo Mowlam, helping achieve that. Yes there were some positive things. But the overwhelming story of those ten years was a wasted opportunity and a betrayal of the hopes of those who voted him into power. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: The Sandman Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:40 PM I cannot argue with that apart from" Labour has never before or since enjoyed such electoral success". I suggest Atlee, otherwise factually correct |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:24 PM I would think that that on the whole the sense of jubilation when Blair goes will be pretty universal. The difference is while the country is divided between people who adore Thatcher and those who detest her, pretty well everyone (apart from a dwindled set of failed careerists on the right of Labour) see Blair as pretty despicable. In a sense he's a genuine one nation man, uniting a divided country in a shared emotion of contempt. I challenge that. Like Thatcher, Blair never lost an election. Labour has never before or since enjoyed such electoral success. Their vote collapsed just half a term after he handed over to Brown. Blair brokered the deal that finally brought peace to Northern Ireland He saved the Muslim people of Bosnia. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: The Sandman Date: 11 Apr 13 - 02:28 PM News Datablog Datablog badge new 620 Next Previous Blog home How much will Margaret Thatcher's funeral cost? How much is it really going to cost to lay Margaret Thatcher to rest? We've taken a look at the different funeral options available and the potential costs • Get the data • More data journalism and data visualisations from the Guardian Share 410 inShare0 Silent farewell to Churchill Margaret Thatcher's funeral next week will be of a scale not accorded to a former prime minister since Sir Winston Churchill's state ceremony in 1965. Photograph: Pa Whether it's £8m or £10m, the estimated costs of Margaret Thatcher's funeral that are being widely reported don't seem to be based on any clear sources. Not here at the Datablog. We take a look at the different types of funeral to bury Britain's 'exceptionally distinguished' commoners and consider the costs that might be incurred. Big British funerals Funeral cost graphic Click on image for full-size graphic. Design by Finbarr Sheehy If the estimates that are being circulated are correct, the funeral of Margaret Thatcher will be the most expensive in British history. The funeral of Sir Winston Churchill required £2,000 to cover the expenses of fire, police and civil defence services (the equivalent of almost £33,000 in 2012). Though policing costs aren't known, the Queen Mother's funeral cost the Ministry of Defence around £301,000 in 2002. THE EXPENSIVE COST OF BURYING MRS THATCHER IS DISGRACEFUL. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Penny S. Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:52 PM I heard this from Giles Fraser yesterday. The comments beneath show what I am beginning to think is a characteristic of a certain sort of right wing poster (not here), also shown beneath Glenda Jackson's speech, of accusing the left wing of being mad, ugly, ignorant, etc etc. I know in this instance some people have done similar things with regard to Lady Thatcher, but usually the abuse is about what she did, not her appearance or mental capacity (before her sad illness). Giles Fraser It looks as if the Conservatives are doing this the way they are to reclaim the Cathedral from the Runcie prayers which she did not like. I once went to a lecture by Barry Cunliffe, who explained the placing of Bronze Age barrows along the boundary of territories as a boast to their neighbours. They did it "because they could". There are clear examples in the animal world, which I wouldn't want to be explicit about. Among humans, the Catholic Church celebrated Mass in the mosque in Cordoba, to claim it from the Muslims, and Muslims have a similar belief about saying their prayers in churches. It looks to me as if this is doing something of the sort, putting us peons in our place. Hearing Tory spokespeople going on about showing respect, Lady Thatcher saving the country, being revered by many people, it seems that there is a total lack of recognition of the harm that was done by her programme, or that some people have a perfectly sound reason for their attitude. I have a sore throat from shouting "NOT IN MY NAME" at the radio. How can we afford this when we have to have people donating to food banks for the poor? Penny |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Greg F. Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:03 PM Thatcher's legacy will indeed live on. It poisons our country today, and it will keep on poisoning it into the foreseeable future. Spot on, Kevin. The same can be said for her demented buddy Ron Reagan's legacy here in the U.S. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Apr 13 - 01:00 PM The Right to Buy meant that the only way to have a realistic ability to move if the circumstances of your life meant you had to move would be to buy, since the possibility of getting an exchamge council tenancy wa effectively vanishing. Refusing to buy on a matter of rinciple - which some people did - would put you at a serious disadvantage. The problem with the right to buy was that it didn't include a requirement to sell back to the council at the same price, adjusted for inflation, so that the housing stock would not be eroded. It could have been done that way, and if so it would have been a very good thing. As it was, though it provided a windfall for some, it has been a disaster for society. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: akenaton Date: 11 Apr 13 - 12:43 PM I didn't mean to pick on you Allan, I agree with most of your stated views. But along with all the hatred for Mrs Thatcher in Scotland and the loss of jobs, thousands rushed to take advantage of the "right to buy" scheme which Mrs Thatcher championed. Some whom I have known for years as Labour through and through were first in the queue SJ...Mrs Thatcher was not personally responsible for the issues we are dealing with today. She tried to make a Capitalist economy in decline, competitive......and she succeeded for a while, as did Blair, but you cant make water run uphill, the pendulum was swinging and we can see the result today. "Financial products" and "life on credit" were the last throw of the dice, but it couldn't work. Whether Mrs Thatcher had existed or not, the system was bound to fail when our goods and services were too expensive, shoddy, or in the case of the financial boom, simply a huge scam. Funny thing is, politicians are still telling us that it can be fixed...but you will have noticed that they're very short on detail as to how this is to be accomplished. Apparently turning us all into paupers, and condemning our kids to a life without purpose is about the best they can come up with....Ake. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Allan Conn Date: 11 Apr 13 - 12:01 PM "It's a bit pathetic to accuse Mrs Thatcher (note the mmannerly use of the Prefix) of being divisive," It is not an accusation as much as a statement of fact! Divisive in this contect meaning tending to divide opinion and she divided opinion sharply. Much more so than most politicians. Especially here in Scotland. She of course had her admirers and supporters but there is no denying that she was undoubtedly the most unpopular politician of certainly the second half of the 20thC here. That's not to say she chose to be divisive. Apparently she couldn't understand why she was so despised in Scotland when she admired Scotland so much. Though of course it wasn't the real Scotland of the 20thC she admired. It was Victorian Scotland. I do think that people celebrating someone's death is offensive but I don't see how the dead are beyond any criticism. That was all I was saying. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Jim McLean Date: 11 Apr 13 - 11:01 AM I don't know what Alex SLmond had to do with people dancing in the street, I don't even think he was in Scotland at the time. We shouldn't equate him with all things Scottish ... he is a leader of a party and the First Minister but I'm sure there were a few Scottish Socialist Republicans and Labour dancers. I too think Glenda was brilliant as was Angus Robertson but where was the voice of Scottish Labout? |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,achmelvich Date: 11 Apr 13 - 10:49 AM i will be happy enough to celebrate bliar's passing as well, as long as he has gone a long way towards serving a long sentence following his appearance at the hague. as for her - any excuse for a party. i never felt the need to give her respect while she was alive, to do so now would make me a hypocrite when i'd rather be dancing. and i bet she played jungle music at 3 in the morning |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Rog Peek Date: 11 Apr 13 - 10:47 AM Akenaton - You seem to be suggesting that, had Hitler lived on to become old and infirm, that we should have shown him respect in death. I'm sorry, but respect is something to be earned, and for me, neither Hiter or Thatcher did that, along with a few others like Pinochet for example who Thatcher admired immensely. Rog |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Stu Date: 11 Apr 13 - 10:25 AM "Dick, it's not a " State" funeral." In all but name it is, and apart from the lying in state Thatcher is being afforded the same privilege as Diana or the Queen Mother. In fact, apart from Churchill (who is a special case) the monarch has not attended the funeral of any of her prime ministers. On top of this, by giving Thatcher the whole shebang from soldiers, gun carriages and a service in St. Paul's the government is attempting to elevate her to the status afforded the royals. This is wrong by any measure, because as a democracy there should be a separation between the heads of the monarchy and the state and this fiasco blurs that distinction further than it already is (especially in the eyes of foreigners) and the more gullible amongst us. It reeks a degree of the self-righteous, hubristic entitlement that one-nation little Englander tories seem to excel at; a complete lack of humility that damns them as the myopic, unquestioning and shallow materialists they are (as an ex-member of the Young Conservatives back in the early 1980's I know this to be true). Of course, we're paying for this circus in a time of austerity when people are once again suffering under a callous and uncaring tory government, and this is simply insulting, and I guess it is meant to be so. Fair enough, stick the old girl in the ground in the appropriate manner and with due deference and be done with it and we'll all pay as we would any other ex-prime minister, but to rub the noses of the people in the misery of their own suffering as a political statement (which this funeral undoubtedly is, as the view of the organisers is not the consensus of opinion in the country) is rather boorish to say the least. To dismiss the suffering, depravation and appalling effects on millions of ordinary people in the present economic climate as well as during Thatcher's tenure by holding a populist, ostentatious display of political mutual masturbation under the premise of a funeral ("Look! We are the chosen ones! God is on our side! The Queen and Clarkson are coming to St. Margaret's funeral! You dissenters are all scum for voicing an opinion!) is typical of the insensitive and unpleasant nature of the conservative party, and the people involved deserved the criticism that is being heaped upon them. It's a real shame they don't have a modicum of taste or decorum but them you get the impression they wouldn't know what they were anyway. Louts with cash. One thing . . . I think many people are not celebrating the death of one infirm old lady (which is distasteful), but the demise of a character; the embodiment of a certain political and social ideology that was called 'Margaret Thatcher'. This is the character responsible for the issues the consequences of which we are still dealing with in the present day. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: MikeL2 Date: 11 Apr 13 - 09:41 AM Hi I detested Maggie and all she stood for. But I won't celebrate because I feel that we should respect death regardless of who it is. She's gone so let her rest in peace. Cheers MikeL2 |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Apr 13 - 09:34 AM The point I was making, as I explained, was that an absolute and unqualified principle never speak ill of the dead means in the case of all people. If it was a matter of "don't be nasty about this person because they aren't bad enough to merit it", that would be a completely different matter. ............................ No it's not technically a State Funeral, just an enormous ceremonial funeral with a massive procession with a gun carriage, and Central London closed down for the occasion, with full military honours and the Queen drafted in to pay her respects, all paid for by the state. Quite a different thing. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: billybob Date: 11 Apr 13 - 08:44 AM Dick, it's not a " State" funeral. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: akenaton Date: 11 Apr 13 - 08:31 AM When Mrs T referred to "people like them", i believe she meant people like the Scottish idiots who disgraced our country by celebrating the death of one old lady, who was no longer in the position to harm anyone. Never voted Tory in my life, but everyone deserves a little respect in death Hitler, and I dont agree with the analogy, was still a threat to the world when he died, his death probably shortened the war and saved lives so of course we could celebrate his passing, but an old infirm lady, suffering from the effects of old age....I suppose her death was a release, but not a cause for celebration Tho' I opposed her policies, and got my head bashed for my trouble, she had more spirit and guts than those who did a victory dance on the streets of Glasgow. Alex Salmond should apologise for the behaviour of some of our citizens. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: The Sandman Date: 11 Apr 13 - 08:27 AM he may have been a paedophile, but then I suppose you are unaware that there are also paedophiles who post on this forum. They have every right to do so. Don, you too are showing hatred for Saville. the same sort of hatred that some posters condemn, it should be borne in mind that he raised 40 million for charity, that does not excuse his sexual perversions, but it is nevertheless a fact. Mrs Thatcher in my opinion should not be receiving a state funeral. Winston Churchill received a state funeral because he was our leader during the second world war,and led the country against nazi invaders in my opinion mrs thtcher no more deserves a state funeral than any other past national leader., she cannot be compared to Churchill, any more than any other UK NATIONAL leader can. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Stu Date: 11 Apr 13 - 07:55 AM "It's a bit pathetic to accuse Mrs Thatcher (note the mmannerly use of the Prefix) of being divisive, when half of you are busily engaged in the same actions." No disrespect meant, but how do you know everyone's being divisive? Perhaps people's experiences mean they reason to see Thatcher as divisive, I know mine certainly did. Also, many people work towards community cohesion and making the places they live better places to be on a voluntary basis, working hard for the common good. It does happen, and despite the likes of Thatcher and Cameron and his insulting 'Big Society' some people do it for reasons other than economics. They haven't driven compassion out of society yet. If this reeks of self-rightousness then I would simply ask you to read some of the drivel that has been talked and written by admirers of the now rusting Iron Lady. I patted her on the back once (true). Streuth. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 11 Apr 13 - 06:26 AM ""On which principle people should shut up about Jimmy Savile... And no, that doesn't mean I'm Identifying the two, "" I rather think it does McG! You have undoubtedly linked somebody, with whose politics you disagree, with a filthy paedophile. I think it's well past time that incitement to political hatred were placed alongside racial and religious as the crime it undoubtedly should be. It's a bit pathetic to accuse Mrs Thatcher (note the mmannerly use of the Prefix) of being divisive, when half of you are busily engaged in the same actions. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: GUEST,Fred McCormick Date: 11 Apr 13 - 06:19 AM Nice to see that, amid all the sycophancy and crocodile tears, there was at least one contributor to yesterday's waste of £30-000 who told their colleagues exactly what they thought . Good on yer, Glenda. I always knew the Labour party had at least one member with some backbone. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:46 AM "If you can't say anything good about a dead woman just keep your stupid mouth sht and say nothing. " On which principle people should shut up about Jimmy Savile... And no, that doesn't mean I'm Identifying the two, but pointing out the problem with that principle. If we weren't being deluged with adulation for Thatcher it would be sensible to ignore her death, but unfortunately we are being so deluged. Unfortunately both the threads started on Mudcat seem to have been started by those who are Anti-Maggie. Also the majority of posts seem that way inclined. So (in the case of Mudcat at least) it seems the 'deluge' is already flowing in the opposite direction. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Apr 13 - 05:22 AM "People like that" Otherwise known as "not one of us". And that, I suggest, is something of which we should be proud. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: John MacKenzie Date: 11 Apr 13 - 04:59 AM "If people like that dislike me for what I do, then I must be doing something right" Margaret Thatcher |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: billybob Date: 11 Apr 13 - 04:41 AM Megan the voice of reason thank you |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: Megan L Date: 11 Apr 13 - 04:10 AM Hate is a powerful emotion. When we hate it is easy to dehumanise the subject of our hatred. When we dehmanise anyone be it an individual or group it allows us to justify whatever happens. Of such things are genocide created. |
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Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Apr 13 - 03:55 AM Everyone has their reasons for anything they do. That includes the people who do the very worst. That should temper our personal comments but it is never a reason to let up on our rejection of what they have done. There is a fine line between seeking to understand and justifying, but it's as important to hold that line whether we are talking about Margaret Thatcher, Osama Bin Laden or Jimmy Savile. and no, I'm not saying those are alll the same, just illustrating a principle. |
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