Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 12:23 PM

"The Premier League and Football League will not be asking clubs to hold a one-minute's silence in memory of Baroness Thatcher at their upcoming fixtures."
Thank God for that as I hate missing the kick-off.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 12:19 PM

No reasonable person would want to celebrate the death of another human being, it just galls people when all the right wingers etc come out to sing her praises, conveniently forgetting the damage to good honest hard working people she did by destroying the coal and steel industries and our manufacturing base, we are suffering the legacy of that still.

Heard on some news programme last nigh, the Yorkshire pit village of Grimethorpe is only just begging to recover from the massive damage caused by the pit closure.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 12:14 PM

Incidentally Labour's election result in 1945 at 47.8% wasn''t its highest percentage - that was in 1951 when it got 48.8%, and was defeated by the Tories who got 48%.

The point I was making was that talking about Thatcher having been voted for by most British voters is claiming a degree of popularity which is vastly too high. It shouldn't be done, and it shouldn't be allowed to stand.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 11:59 AM

My recollections of events in 1945 are as I related above to Jack, Fred. I don't know your age; but I was born in 1932, a member of a politically active & aware Jewish family: and I remember much mystery about Hitler's death; and did see that film in 1953 that I described above about Hitler plotting his return to power from an obscure S American hotel room ~~ the film was actually called "The Man In Room [#something]" IIRC ~~ still not a completely absurd situation to imagine even then 8 years after the war. Did you hear the radio announcement you assert took place the next day? If not, then what is your basis for the assertion? Can you furnish a reference for it? I assure you that nobody I knew heard it.

AND I WAS THERE. WERE YOU?

"MGM. You of all people have no room to call anyone a cowardly little nonentity". Temper temper! What brought that on? Not my fault you posted carelessly, was it? If you want to avoid abuse, try being more careful in future & don't throw your 'pure oversight' back at me.
I repeat I think your comparisons absurd, but that is clearly a matter of opinion.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 11:58 AM

Don't be fooled by the stuff about what a nightmare the time was before Margaret Thatcher. The Three Day Week? Production actually went up - and of course that nder the previous Tory government, during a pretty brief strike. Yes there were a dair fe strikes - but the amount of working hours lost as a reult was a fraction of those caused by unemployment as Thatcherism unleashed the forces that destroyed British manufacturing.

They weren't bad times, and far better than what followed in all kinds of ways. Ther were lots of things needed changing, but the changes brought in by Thatcher,and continued by Tony Blair and Cameron, were the wrong changes, that have made things far far worse than they should be. And looking to get worse still for millions of us.

Billy Bragg is right. There's no point in crying "rejoice" or "gotcha" at the death of an old lady. But it's important that people who recognise her true "heritage" for the sodid nightmare which it is should resist those who would twist the good human instinct to feel sympathy for the old lady's death into accepting what she stood for.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 11:49 AM

Dick, if I didn't know you better, I might think you were paranoid ;)

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Rog Peek
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 11:42 AM

Apparently she had said she didn't want to lie in state. To be honest with you, if I were in her shoes, I wouldn't have wanted to risk that either!

Rog

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 11:23 AM

jhn mackenzie would you like to back your statement up with stats, now here is a fact Joe Gormley leader of the num during the 1973 miners strike was reporting back to MI5 ON NUM UNION MEETINGS, as was ray buckton leader of ASLEF, SO MUCH FOR IT ALL BEING THE FAULT OF THE UNIONS ,TWOLEUNIONS HAD BEEN INFILTRATED BY THE ESTABLISHMENT AND WEREHAVING THEOR DISCUSSIONS RELAYED BACK TO MI5.so much for democracy and freedom of speech

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 11:22 AM

MGM. You of all people have no room to call anyone a cowardly little nonentity. The ommission of my name was a pure oversight on my part. If I was going to anonymise my joy over anything at all, it certainly wouldn't be anything relating to the death of Margaret Thatcher.

Despite what you say, the facts of Hitler's death were known almost immediately. In fact it was announced on BBC radio the following day, following an announcement by German radio.

And yes, I was making comparisons. If Thatcher hadn't had parliament to hold her back, she would have emerged as one of the great monsters of history. Right there alongside Hitler and Stalin and Mao and Churchill and Generals Pinochet and Franco. Bastards, the lot of them!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 11:14 AM

The EEC and a slump in demand for steel, with the help of Arthur Scargill, and his ilk, did more to close mines and steelworks than Maggie T.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 11:12 AM

No we ['people'] were not, Jack. I don't know your age, but I was 13 at the time, and confidently assert that Hitler's fate was a great mystery. As late as 1953, in my first year at Cambridge, I remember seeing a supporting short film at the Arts Cinema [the old one in Market Passage] which had a surprise ending predicated on the fact that Der Führer might be holed up in a South American hotel room, hopefully plotting a return to power!

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: billybob
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 10:52 AM

Vectis, I too remember the 3 day weeks, I was pregnant and terrified of giving birth by candle light. It was a dreadful time to live through, we were dictated to by the unions, but I would not speak ill of any of them if they died.I am just very sad at the outpourings of hate from people that I have always held in high regard!

Karma!!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 10:41 AM

I'm not so sure about that MtheGM. I think reasonable people were confident that Hitler was dead.

The South American travel stories of the Furher were not as far fetched as the Elvis sightings that happen to this day. Elvis had a well publicized death with a coroner's report and an open casket funeral.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 10:36 AM

In fact, unnamed GUEST, purely from a factual pov, the details of Hitler's death did not become known for some years ~~ there were rumours he had escaped to S America & all sorts going around at the time. So nobody was rejoicing his death at the actual time it happened.

If, in any event, you are going to make implied comparisons of that sort, the least you might have done is identify yourself, you cowardly little nonentity.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 10:26 AM

Also posted 'above the line' (in the shorter thread!)

IRON LADY
Nigel Parsons 9/4/13
Tune: River Lady (as sung by Roger Whittaker)

The day Hell freezes over is the day she'll start to care.
She called herself "The Iron Lady" but her policies weren't fair.
She sacrificed our miners, and our seamen bold and brave.
When they turf over her casket we will dance upon her grave.

South Atlantic water's freezin'
Just two minutes in, life signs are ceasin'
Floatin' away from the ship with my fingers turning blue
Back on the ship the decks are burnin'
Metal to flame & liquid turnin'
All because Thatcher's flexing her muscles and her powers
Sending us out to fight for islands that were never ours.

The pit wheels have stopped turning, from the policies she had
She said that coal made losses, and we really should be glad.
Her place was University, among the caps and gowns
But she chose to go to Parliament, and killed our mining towns.

South Atlantic water's freezin'
Just two minutes in, life signs are ceasin'
etc.



The above comments appear to reflect views displayed on Mudcat, but are not necessarily the views of the author.
NP

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 10:03 AM

" The only real antidote to cynicism is activism. Don't celebrate - organise!"

I agree about the activism bit and the need to organise. But hell, when did the death of one single ogre generate so much cheer? Yes, I know. April 30th 1945. That was the day when Adolf Hitler shot himself.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 09:59 AM

Some words on misapplied death etiquette.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 09:52 AM

"This is not a time for celebration. The death of Margaret Thatcher is nothing more than a salient reminder of how Britain got into the mess that we are in today. Of why ordinary working people are no longer able to earn enough from one job to support a family; of why there is a shortage of decent affordable housing; of why domestic growth is driven by credit, not by real incomes; of why tax-payers are forced to top up wages; of why a spiteful government seeks to penalise the poor for having an extra bedroom; of why Rupert Murdoch became so powerful; of why cynicism and greed became the hallmarks of our society.

Raising a glass to the death of an infirm old lady changes none of this. The only real antidote to cynicism is activism. Don't celebrate - organise!"

Billy Bragg

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 09:51 AM

The amount of vitriol in this thread is appalling..but then I looked at the list of posters...and I was not surprised. A sad lot and an ugly thread. And no, I am not one of the greed is good crowd.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 09:09 AM

john mackenzie , I have been stating facts, you as usual are throwing insults and trolling.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 08:48 AM

Well what exalted company you are all in. That prick George Galloway agrees with you. You guys sure know how to choose your friends :p

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 08:34 AM

And when this moron got lost on a rally in the Sahara, she mobilised the British Army to find him.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 08:12 AM

CEMENTATION employed mark thatcher, the ratepayers of kent and essex were never consulted or compensated, one of the company that built the new bridge was cementation. SHE DID NOT HAVE INTEGRITY.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 07:39 AM

News
    Politics

How Mark Thatcher exploited his position - and infuriated Whitehall

· Taxpayer forced to fund bodyguards, files show
· Mother pressed for aid to company employing son

Read the documents here, part 1
Read the documents here, part 2 (pdf)

    Share 1
    inShare0
    Email

    David Leigh and Rob Evans        
    The Guardian, Tuesday 20 September 2005        

A hitherto unknown saga of Whitehall exasperation at Sir Mark Thatcher's use of his position as the prime minister's son is revealed today in files the Guardian has obtained under the Freedom of Information Act.

Sir Mark not only made large sums out of commercial firms anxious to exploit his mother. He also, the documents show, got the taxpayer to pay for 24-hour British bodyguards and unprecedented security at his home in the US. At one point, he demanded, unsuccessfully, to be made an honorary consul in Dallas.

No 10 staff, from the cabinet secretary, Sir Robert Armstrong, downwards, spent a considerable amount of time dealing with problems caused by the prime minister's son, including the use of the Downing Street press office to arrange his wedding to Diane Burgdorf, who disclosed their impending divorce at the weekend, following Sir Mark's recent conviction for involvement in an African coup attempt.

The person who comes best out of the story, as will be no surprise to contemporary readers of the Dear Bill column in Private Eye, was Sir Mark's bluff father, the late Denis Thatcher. Consulted by uneasy No 10 staff, he said Sir Mark's demands should be refused.

But Mrs Thatcher contradicted him. She authorised the unprecedented use of British taxpayers' money to fortify Sir Mark's luxurious home in Texas. She also authorised the home secretary to conceal from MPs the £117,000 cost of his special branch bodyguards while in Britain.

The files reveal that she pressed Whitehall to grant special aid to one firm, Cementation, employing Sir Mark, and allowed another, US computer firm EDS, which was seeking government contracts, to approach her through lobbyists and put Sir Mark on its payroll.

The files are peppered with thinly disguised complaints from Whitehall about the young Thatcher's arrogant attitude. "I had a not altogether satisfactory talk with Mark this morning" begins a typical confidential memo from Nigel Wicks, Mrs Thatcher's principal private secretary, to the British ambassador in Washington.

Mark demanded bodyguards soon after his mother came to power in 1979, though his sister Carol never asked for bodyguards throughout her mother's premiership. When MPs began to query the expense, the files show the Home Office submitted to his mother three possible answers to a parliamentary question, marked A, B and C. Answer A said truthfully: "The estimated cost of police protection afforded to Mark Thatcher since 1979 is £113,485". Answer B said, untruthfully: "This information could only be provided at disproportionate cost". She ordered answer C to be given: "I do not intend to depart from the practice of not disclosing ... information".

Sir Mark had been secretly paid commission by construction firm Cementation, for an Oman contract which his mother had lobbied for. The files reveal for the first time that the then ambassador to Oman, Ivor Lucas, cabled a confidential warning to Whitehall after Mrs Thatcher's trip to see the sultan, on May 9 1981. "I believe Mark Thatcher is ... associated with the firm". He said the sultan had promised Mrs Thatcher he would give Cementation the contract: "It is a little surprising that this decision should have been taken at such an early stage ... and that Cementation should have scooped the jackpot ... They were by no means the first in the field." A letter from the firm also claimed Mrs Thatcher had promised preferential government finance terms.

"The plot thickens," a Department of Trade and Industry official recorded on receipt of this letter. He warned there was no money available. But the Treasury was strenuously lobbied to make an exception, using Mrs Thatcher's name. The DTI said: "The PM on her recent visit expressed strong interest in this project and wishes to be informed of its progress". The Foreign Office joined in: "She expects departments here to do all they can." The export credits guarantee department then conceded defeat following "the strong interest expressed by the prime minister".

In 1984, the Oman deal was exposed in the Observer. Mark Thatcher was sent to live in America following the subsequent row. But his mother feared for him after she allowed the US to use British bases to bomb Libya. She hand-wrote to Mr Wicks: "I fear he may be a priority target ... I thought the security people over there would automatically [double underlined] think of giving him special protection, but nothing has happened."

The FBI complained about the burden of providing him with 24-hour protection, and he eventually agreed to move into his own permanent house with proper security. Denis Thatcher told Mr Wicks that Mark should pay for it himself: "Mr Thatcher thinks that the low security assessment and the risk of political outcry here if it became known that taxpayers' money had been used ... argue strongly against using public funds". Mark chose a luxurious Dallas home to occupy with his new bride, Diana, and, as Mr Wicks warned the prime minister, demanded $25,000 "from public funds" for alarms, bullet-proof windows and a "panic room". His mother wrote on the file: "The sums seem enormous - way beyond what I could reimburse." Mark suggested "going on the consular list" to legitimise the payments, but Whitehall vetoed the suggestion. In the end, his mother capitulated. Although the bullet-proof windows were dropped, she ordered the British taxpayer to fund $31,000 worth of work.

She then tearfully attended Mark's wedding in February 1987, organised by the Downing Street press office despite doubts about the propriety of this. Mr Wicks told the cabinet secretary, Sir Robert, that otherwise "there will be an almighty shambles".

Soon afterwards, Sir Robert reported to Mrs Thatcher that "an old friend and former colleague", Michael Casey, a former senior DTI official turned lobbyist, had approached him confidentially. His client, the Dallas computer firm EDS, wanted it known that it was willing to put the prime minister's son on its payroll. The propriety of this move was questionable. EDS was lobbying for government contracts, but was under investigation for not properly seeking UK work permits for its staff.

Sir Robert warned: "Its management is described to me as aggressive and brash. It has been the subject of a persistent and hostile campaign by the Guardian and Mr Tam Dalyell MP has attacked the company in the House of Commons."

Mrs Thatcher nevertheless allowed her son to sign up with the company. When the news leaked, later in that year, it led to further unflattering headlines.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 07:36 AM

so all though the toll was inplace right from the start, the rate payers of kent and essex also had to pay exra rates to help fund the tunnel, they were not consulted.
As the oper­a­tion of the Dart­ford Tun­nel was con­trolled by an Act of Par­lia­ment, new leg­is­la­tion was nec­es­sary to allow trans­fer of the cross­ing from Kent and Essex County Coun­cils to Dart­ford River Cross­ing Lim­ited. This process was com­pleted on July 31st 1988 and con­struc­tion of the bridge began just a few days later.

Dartfordcrossing3The prin­ci­pal engi­neer­ing con­trac­tor was the Cemen­ta­tion Cleve­land Dart­ford Con­sor­tium, a joint ven­ture between Kvaerner Con­struc­tion Lim­ited and Kvaerner Cleve­land Bridge Lim­ited. Dr. Ing Hell­mut Homberg and Part­ner designed the cable-stayed bridge super­struc­ture whilst Kvaerner Tech­nol­ogy Lim­ited designed the.
   who was a director of cementation at that time?. check it out Ithink you will find various members of the thatcher family were shareholders and or directors, one denis thatcher? SHE WAS CORRUPT

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 07:34 AM

Start again:-
"Apparently Satan is pissed off with her already. She's only been down there a day and already she's closed five pits and eight furnaces."
And she wants to know why he is sitting in her chair.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 07:32 AM

"Apparently Satan is pissed off with her already. She's only been down there a day and already she's closed five pits and eight furnaces."

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 07:28 AM

Yes she made a lot of mistakes and enemies but she was honest, stuck to her principles and had integrity.
   she did not have integrity, she was corrupt,The original dartford tunnel, was funded by the rate payers of kent and essex,in theory it belonged to the rate payers of those two counties, her government awarded the building of the second tunnel to trafalgar houseor one of the companies that her husband was a diretor of.
the rate payers did not receive compensation when the two tunnels were privatised, so do not talk about integrity , she was a corrupt politician

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Stu
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 07:16 AM

"Monday the 8th of April 2013 will be remembered as the day hell became full."

Apparently Satan is pissed off with her already. She's only been down there a day and already she's closed five pits and eight furnaces.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 05:25 AM

Yes, Dave, maybe; but not only by such. I doubt there are many of those who are Mudcatters, but she has her rational defenders on this forum too, as well as all the hysterical denouncers with their champagne & their dancing & their Judy Garland songs about dead witches. As I say: the little dears are enjoying their petty triumph [tho what there is to feel so very clever & triumphant about in someone's eventually having snuffed it in her late-80s I can't quite see]; so just let them get on with it, and much good may it do them. Nasty hangovers and sprained muscles are the best one can wish them.

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 05:23 AM

Richard, Thatcher put all of her energy into dealing with the situation in the North of Ireland after her friend, Hairy Knees went vertical. She failed miserably because she under estimated their resolve. Here she wasn't dealing with the conscripted army in the Malvinas. John Major had a lot more wisdom when it came to dealing with the Irish. On the afternoon of the 9th of February 1996, the day the device detonated on the Southern Quay of Canary Wharf,he received a phone call stating another two similar devices were primed and already in the capital, he made the right call to begin talks, without sounding melodramatic, the country would have faced bankruptcy. Thatcher failed, in Ulster, Unionism is now fragmented, the largest party in government over there are the very people she attempted to break.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 05:14 AM

Yes and there is a lot of defending her by people who did well out of her ' greed is good, grab what you can and fuck the rest ' policies.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,vectis
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 05:00 AM

Oh Yes! Britain was such a utopia before Thatcher. The 3 day week, planning your meals around when you had power to cook it, doing homework by candle power when the electricity -yet again- was off. Strikes at the drop of a hat so if you started a long distance journey it was a bit of a gamble as to whether or not you would arrive on schedule. Hospitals barely operating due to strikes. Rubbish uncollected, the dead unburied for weeks because of strikes.
Oh Yes! what a wonderful world was led by Heath, Wilson and Callaghan - spineless and forgettable the lot of them.

Thatcher had a mandate and did what she said she would do. Many didn't like the effects, me for one; but many recognised that it was going to be painful but it would be worth it in the end.

What has followed her have been a succession of spineless rich public school boys with no idea of how most people live or what they want from life. It is them that have led this country and almost allowed it to become bankruptthrough piss poor policies.

Yes she made a lot of mistakes and enemies but she was honest, stuck to her principles and had integrity. What you saw was what you got.

I honestly believe that history will treat her more gently than those that preceeded her or followed her. Where has the statesmanship gone? lost along with honesty and good proactive policies.

There is too much hatred here which speaks more about the haters than the hated.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 04:40 AM

What needs to be recognised by those who denounce "minority govenments" like Mrs T's is that numerically majority governments in this country are like The Spanish Inquisition ~~

Nobody expects them!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 04:24 AM

...and even then, note, it was a minority-elected govt, even if only by 1%!

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 04:09 AM

Dick ~~ Attlee's victory was at the end of the war when the situation, with all the returning servicemen, was exceptional. This majority was reduced to less than normal sorts of figures in the 1950 election, and overturned entirely in 1951, when he lost!

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 04:07 AM

The woman was an evil bigot who tore the country apart. She deserved to die and she deserved to suffer.

She did one thing right - defend the Falkands from Argentinian invasion.

My military friends tell me that had her policies on Ireland been diligently pursued we would have won there, in stead of being defeated by the terrorists.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 04:06 AM

Several street parties are being organized to coincide with her funeral from Yorkshire to Crossmaglen. That sums up the measure of the woman. Monday the 8th of April 2013 will be remembered as the day hell became full.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack in the ether
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 03:52 AM

Hmmm . . . My post went for a burton, even though someone has quoted it in the thread.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 03:31 AM

What was the percentage of the vote that atlee received when he was first elected? 49 per cent, so please stop this crap about thatcher having biggest percent of the vote in modern era..
"She at least had the courage and vision to try and put things right." whoever said this does not understand capitalist economics, reducing peoples wages on a grand scale means they have very little money to spend, result....economic stagnation, closing down indigineous fuel industries and relying on imported fuel, is putting yourself at the mercy of other governments.
All nations should try and be as self sufficent fuel wise as possible,   Thatchers attack upon the num was a politically motivated act of revenge for 1973,and was not for the good of the country on a short or a long term basis, it was divisive and only suited a very small percent of the population, those people who were very wealthy.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Apr 13 - 01:05 AM

I think that it is pretty clear that Thatcher never received support from a majority of the British people though which was the point being made."
.,,.
But the point being MISSED, Allan, is that nobody ever does. It is not even expected under our system. But, as you go on to say, she did get more numerical support than anybody had for many years.

Geddit!

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Fossil
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 08:44 PM

Where is she to be buried? I wish to go and dance there...

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: kendall
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 08:21 PM

I certainly don't hate her, but anyone who says Ronald Reagan was a great president is simply blowing smoke.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 07:49 PM

I wonder if any of the right on leftys here are willing to admit that Labour was as responsible for the social upheaval of the late seventies, eighties and early nineties as the Conservatives. Up to the first half of the 20th C Britain had an Empire. The Empire was a good market for British industries. After the war we no longer had an Empire and we no longer had those markets. What we had was out of date industries with no one to sell to and industrial practices whose concerns eventually became suicidal. In the 24 years between the end of the war and our first woman prime minister what had Labour done to modernise our industrial structure and practices? Nothing. The trades unions would not let them. Had the Labour Party had the courage and vision to implement adequate reform, Maggie may never have happened. She at least had the courage and vision to try and put things right. Had Labour made any serious effort in the previous 20 years it may not have been necessary. If you hate Maggie you should also hate the previous 20 years of BOTH parties.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 07:43 PM

She was certainly no Annette Funicello.

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 07:30 PM

My spellchecker is Thatcherite - it does not recognise the word "coalpit".

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: GUEST,Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 07:03 PM

It must be one of those strange coincidences that happen to members of my family. Today we took two of our grand children to the National Mining Museum. What news to hear on our return to the surface from our tour underground!

When one of the children asked why the coal was not still being mined the guide's reply was "politics".

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 07:02 PM

Yes, SPB-Cooperator, but the many people on here pouring out the hatred and bile are the very same people who condemn *her* for a lack of compassion and humanity. Where's theirs?

I disagreed with most of what she said and did. I'm from a northern industrial area that saw its manufacturing and mining wiped out, but there's no way I'd wish that she'd "died a much more slow and agonising death" or that "her grave has a sprung ceiling" (presumably to facilitate dancing on it). Nice people...and eminently tar-able with the brush they're tarring her with!

Just let her go....

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead (1925-2013)
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 06:38 PM

It's no more than the unpleasant outpouring of bile that we suffered from her and her cronies in the eighties and early nineties

Subject: RE: Obit: Margaret Thatcher Dead
From: Allan Conn
Date: 08 Apr 13 - 06:37 PM

"I believe the last Labour (sic) government was elected by about 13% of those eligible to vote."

It was nearer 21.5%. Thatcher's wins ranged from 30% to 33%. Blair's first victory was early 30s too. I think that it is pretty clear that Thatcher never received support from a majority of the British people though which was the point being made. Whether you look at those eligible to vote or those who actually voted that point is true! Likewise she polarised opinion more than had happened before certainly for a while. So she may have been extremely popular with some but she was extremely unpopular with others. Somebody said that Conservatives were quieter too. I don't think that is so! People who are more politicised tend to be more vocal whatever party they support.