BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link.
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 01:57 PM

Mithe,.....being as Adam and Eve begat sons and daughters over their almost thousand years I suspect there were too many to stay ay home and after a couple hundred years some of em moved to nod! And the lot incest thing....that was father and daughters.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 01:34 PM

Musket: "So pointing out hatred is wrong eh, sailor boy?"

No, but making up hatred, out of other people's posts, when there is none, is pretty stupid..AND diverts the thread to avoid discussing issues, in ways you haven't considered is.

Shallow accusations of 'hatred and bigotry', projected out of YOUR head, does NOT prove any valid point, other than you like to accuse others, to whom you can't seem to make a valid point.
Perhaps you should try understanding something out of your own VERY narrow box, constructed out of flimsy 'talking points' propaganda that you (along with a lot of others)bought into, while being manipulated by the very people, who brought you(and a lot of others) a load of crap to believe in...which has been turning out to be quite false.

Oh, and BTW, you are not convincing anybody of anything, because instead of putting forth valid points, you're just spewing hatred, and fear that your programmed conceptual world is crumbling, in the light of truth and common sense.

Snap now, and avoid the rush!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 01:08 PM

Demonstrating hatred toward others, especially other forum members, is very wrong Ian Mather. You ought to knock it off.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 12:59 PM

So pointing out hatred is wrong eh, sailor boy?

I guess I'll just have to be wrong then. Never thought being offended by bigotry was a fucking tactic.

Have fun in the playground with your homophobic play pals.

You know, I doubt you are a bad man really, so eventually perhaps you might even understand why so many people here are sick, in many senses, of victimisation of whole groups of society, of misogyny, of attempts to point at innocent people and call them a problem that needs dealing with.

Whilst waiting for the penny to drop, don't mind if I shake the vending machine a bit?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 10:28 AM

>>>Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket - PM
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 02:37 AM

Ok. That worked.

I said quite a lot but then threw in a scrap of text about rules. Jerk homed in on that, completely disregarding everything pertinent to his stupid illogical statement that Goofus and the worm have every right to propagate hatred. <<<

Flagrant disrespect for the rules of this forum and its members.

Shimrod, I'm sure that you've noticed that Musket's tactic is to bring up those subjects every time he is asked to stop acting like a bully in a school yard. He also tends to call other people bigots while using pretty offensive stereotypes. I suspect that is the answer to your question.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 10:15 AM

Since when was incitement to hatred an opinion?

Personality disorder maybe. But opinion is stretching it a bit.





I wish that glue would finish drying. I am logging on and reading bile instead of getting the bloody banjo fixed for a gig tonight. I try to avoid songs with a moral purpose but since reading some of the shit he comes out with, I have resurrected my version of Si Khan's Curtains of Old Joe's House.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 09:58 AM

Have you ever considered a HAT instead? Your comprehension of others opinions would improve considerably Ian.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 09:31 AM

Why stop at queers Alex?

If you want to disguise hate as debate, bring in niggers, Pakis, pikeys. The list is endless.

Anyone other than you in fact. No problem offending people for the crime of existing so long as you just call it debate.

Sorry for trying to stifle it. Where do we start? What's the most effective type of pogrom? No, we couldn't do that one. Liberals wouldn't like it. They spoil all the fun, the stuck up bastards.



Excuse me, anyone got a bucket?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 05:37 AM

Shimrod: "Why have both of these 'Militant Atheism' threads degenerated into tedious slanging matches about homosexuality/homophobia?"

I don't know about everybody else, but I believe the topic was more aimed at 'Personal Responsibility'..and just cited an example or two...and as far as I was concerned, I spent more time posting in regards to 'loose' behavior...both men and women.

I also stated: "..and for 'ideologues' sakes, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT HINTING TO THEM ABOUT 'PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY'...or you're a homophobic bigot!!..a 'religious crackpot'....a 'perceived' hater..."

Knee jerk re-actions to the conditioning from dishonest propaganda..stuff like that....and, abortions..and hypocrisy.....take your pick.....don't get obsessed with any of the 'examples'.
Fair enough?

Firth: "GfS, Margaret Sanger was a racist and favored eugenics. True, she was a strong advocate for birth control, but she was NEVER any kind of "Liberal hero."

Come on..Jeez, Don!... she is the founder of Planned Parenthood!!!!.....listen to the 'so-called liberals' scream bloody murder at the thought of closing any number of their sacred temples!
'Atheists', too....no sweat off their backs...no God??..kill everything in sight!..especially anybody, young or old who doesn't agree!...make sure there is no one left who will make us feel uncomfortable!...and NO!!, There is no box to think outside of!!

G'Night...

G'fs

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 05:36 AM

I would agree Shim, but people like Ian have no wish to DISCUSS these matters sensibly, he simply produces a continual stream of abuse.

To Ian these matter should not be discussed reasonably as there is a possibility of the truth getting out.
For months he denied the validity of the health figures for male homosexuals, and anyone mentioning them was jumped on and called a homophobe, bigot, cunt, bastard, shit, worm etc, for doing so.
I may say, without much or any protest from you or most of the membership......with a few honourable exceptions.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 02:48 AM

Why have both of these 'Militant Atheism' threads degenerated into tedious slanging matches about homosexuality/homophobia? Why not start another thread about homosexuality/homophobia which others can choose whether or not to read or participate in?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 02:37 AM

Ok. That worked.

I said quite a lot but then threw in a scrap of text about rules. Jerk homed in on that, completely disregarding everything pertinent to his stupid illogical statement that Goofus and the worm have every right to propagate hatred.

What's up? Is it that you don't wish to offend bigots or some other reason ? Nothing wrong in offending offence you know. My Dad and many others made a point of it from 1939 to 1945. Presumably so people didn't have to put up with the idea of blaming sections of society for the failings of all. To have the freedom to live your own life.

Yet here we are,disgusting little shits such as Alex / Akenaton spew hatred and bile and you know what? Members of religious cults refuse to condemn them for it. Church leaders perpetuate a two lane society (three, I keep forgetting the fundamental misogyny.). So fools get confused even if their gut instinct is equality.

Hang your bloody head in shame.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 02:13 AM

Well their place sure isn't in the workplace as a single mom, because some shit left her after knocking her up!
You'd agree to that...wouldn't you?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 01:31 AM

GfS, Margaret Sanger was a racist and favored eugenics. True, she was a strong advocate for birth control, but she was NEVER any kind of "Liberal hero."

Even though those who have no concept of what Liberal philosophy is all about claim--erroniously--that she is.

And, of ciourse, those who maintain that a woman's place is in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant. NOT Liberals.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 01:18 AM

Well, we're making progress!
...though it's 'politically incorrect' to even hint that the women, have anything to do with failed marriages...even 'domestic abuse'.
You can thank the exploitation of women by the 'woman's movement' for that....in REALITY, you can thank the Rockefellers for that one...they wanted to increase the tax base, so they financed a huge part of the woman's movement....sorta like the Koch Brothers and the TEA party...or $oro$, and all his $henanigan$...but that's another subject. Thanks to them, we have MANY broken homes, and single parents...but everybody's 'equal', right???....and the suckers and victims still breathe that sweet lie!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Jan 14 - 12:19 AM

All I know is that blaming gays for problems with marriage in general is far fetched.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 06:51 PM

'Personal freedom' at the cost of someone else's safety or well-being, is NOT freedom!

..and as far as the lame excuse about the last generation's 'role models'...maybe the answer doesn't lay in emulations of loose behavior. Nobody forced people to look up to idiots, then call them 'celebrity idols'.

Perhaps, (and I know the 'so-called liberals hate this term) PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY just might be something to instill in people, rather than bailouts, 'safety nets', taxing others to compensate for rampant irresponsible loose behavior, might just be a novel idea.

In not that long ago, 'ancient Rome' there were 'vomitoriums'...where, when people ate so much that they were stuffed full, they could go into this room, and with the use of a feather, cause themselves to throw up, then clean up so they could go back and gorge themselves some more...though it was the common practice of the affluent, and NOW generally people think that was pretty disgusting and decadent, .....but abortion clinics are just dandy, right?...and serving much the same purpose....and don't chant the mantra of 'rape or incest...that is a different matter.

Here are some quotes by Margaret Sanger, founder of 'Planned Parenthood'(Vomitorium of the irresponsible, complete with revolving doors):

"The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."

"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."

"Give dysgenic groups [people with "bad genes"] in our population their choice of segregation or [compulsory] sterilization."

"Article 1. The purpose of the American Baby Code shall be to provide for a better distribution of babies… and to protect society against the propagation and increase of the unfit.
Article 4. No woman shall have the legal right to bear a child, and no man shall have the right to become a father, without a permit…
Article 6. No permit for parenthood shall be valid for more than one birth."

"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population, and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

THESE are quotes from Sanger..THIS IS a 'So-called liberal' HERO!!!!, while at the same time they oppose any reference to homosexuals being predominant carriers of the HIV/AIDS virus, and taking ANY steps to single them out for testing or regulating or even acknowledgement!!!!

..and for 'ideologues' sakes, DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT HINTING TO THEM ABOUT 'PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY'...or you're a homophobic bigot!!..a 'religious crackpot'....a 'perceived' hater.....

...and then they wonder why a vast majority of people are sick and tired of them getting away with being shills for the multinational corp-conglomerates...frankly I'm pretty fed up with their shallow, short-sighted, hypocritical bullshit!.....and wrapping it up in rhetorically pretentious self-righteous rap of 'personal freedom'.

"...and you think we're talkin' 'bout somebody else"..Zappa, from 'Plastic People'

Fuck them in their pompous, self-righteous asses....it would be brain food!!

GfS

P.S. There IS one 'benefit' though...any woman who would kill her child, so she could keep fucking idiots, would probably make a shitty mom, anyway!..besides, there's the probability that she's spreading STD's in the process of having 'fun' with her 'personal freedom'!! The only reason idiots like that have cunts...is so that idiot men would even talk to them!..maybe even take them home to meet Mama!!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 06:15 PM

I think he just like to call people names. There are much easier ways to discourage discourse on those topics, such as not bringing them up so much.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 05:36 PM

The point Jack, is that Mr Mather does not want to be reasonable or play by the rules, his purpose is to silence discussion not encourage it. He has said that on many occasions....according to Ian there is no room on Mudcat for discussion of homosexual health statistics or views on homosexual "marriage", which do not correspond with his.

Mr Mather's bad behaviour is a tactic, which thankfully is not working; that's why I love this forum, it contains many real liberals and few Orwellian reproductions

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 01:29 PM

"Clearly, whoever puts themselves up as self styled guardian of some fictitious rule book shouldn't be you. You exhibit no sense of proportion, no sense of reality and make a point of shouting at people who question bigotry."


fictitious? Click membership on the first page of this website. It is there. You don't have much credibility if you can't do that simple thing.

If you did, you would find that we are ALL free to " be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty, or either FOR or AGAINST that of-what-we-do-not-speak."

I am not required to demonstrate a sense of proportion, which by the way is an odd request from you who claims to fight embers with flames because it is "cathartic" Do you somehow feel that your flames are proportional to others' embers? I am not required to demonstrate to you my "sense of reality." I am only required to "be anything you (I)want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty, or either FOR or AGAINST that of-what-we-do-not-speak."

If you feel that GfS is being unkind to unnamed undetected offended Gays who may read his posts, don't you feel that it would be a lot more constructive to tell him that rather than simply calling him "goofus."

You are free to point out anything that you feel is wrong with GfS's posts as long as you go to the membership page that Max wrote, read the rules and follow them.

Your best defense against me "berating" you for breaking the rules is to be a little more grown up and clever and to stop calling people names. Its not a difficult concept.

Ian Mather you are not "pointing out bigotry." You are calling people names and berating them. If anyone on this forum is shouting. The shouting is lead by you. If you see shouting in the posts where I point out that you are disrespecting this forum with your behavior. The shouting is quoted and the words are yours. My words are quiet, calm, cold and unemotional.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 01:06 PM

You thick twat.

(Rule 4, subsection B para 8.4 applies.)

So, reactionary bile that denigrates whole sections of society doesn't fall under "unkind," "impolite" or argumentative?

You can say, as Akenhateon keeps trying in his simple childish fashion, that gay people aren't really married, and that they can't form a secure family structure, yet Goofus is offensive? (He is, but I was referring to the term.)

Don't you think there are any gay people who read Mudcat then? Don't you think rational respectable people have every right to feel offended by hatred, regardless of whether it is aimed at them? Perhaps I should call you Jack after all. As in "I'm alright Jack."

Clearly, whoever puts themselves up as self styled guardian of some fictitious rule book shouldn't be you. You exhibit no sense of proportion, no sense of reality and make a point of shouting at people who question bigotry.

Perhaps a view could be made of that too.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 12:51 PM

>>>
Funny how you can read reactionary bile that denigrates whole sections of society, then respond by picking up on his calling people a jerk off. A bit like telling Oswald Mosely his black shirts show perspiration and some people could find that offensive.<<<<

Funny how you can be shown the same few simple words dozens and dozens of times and still not understand them.

"You are free to be anything you want EXCEPT unkind, impolite, argumentative, snooty, or either FOR or AGAINST that of-what-we-do-not-speak."

I don't see anything there about no being free to express "reactionary bile that denigrates whole sections of society," He is allowed to do that under the rules. Under the rules, you are not allowed to call him a Goofus. Its really really really clear.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 12:46 PM

>>When berating me, you said I called him a tosser. Not true. I called him a gormless tosser.<<<

Rule violation. Argumentative. But my main objection is tediousness.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 11:31 AM

The point is, that in any society everyone cannot behave exactly as they like.
Health and social consequences are always taken into account.(Polygamy incest, group marriage etc)
The demise of marriage is not something to be celebrated it is the result of a sustained "liberal" attack on religion. It may result in more personal freedom, if freedom is even definable, but is certainly bad for the wellbeing of children and the health of society at large.

No point in citing isolated cases( "we are happily married and don't want/cant have children")....well that's a shame, but the vast majority do want/ can have children and a secure family structure is accepted as the best way of nurturing and bringing them up.

Personal "freedom" in this context is simply selfishness in disguise.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 11:00 AM

Aye, and many years ago, people had to suffer in loveless marriages. The taboo around divorce went a long time ago. Women can leave abusive husbands etc.



When berating me, you said I called him a tosser. Not true. I called him a gormless tosser.

He answers to Goofus, just out of interest. Just as he answers to Fugitive from Sanity. The cap well and truly fits.

Funny how you can read reactionary bile that denigrates whole sections of society, then respond by picking up on his calling people a jerk off. A bit like telling Oswald Mosely his black shirts show perspiration and some people could find that offensive.....

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 09:20 AM

Musket, You can get your point across without the use of the words "tosser" or "Goofus"

GfS, you can get by without calling people Jerk offs.


"and now that assholes have LOWERED the standard for marriage to being near meaningless, "

Funny, I would blame that on my parents generation, where role models like Burton and Taylor got as many divorces as they could afford and threw on new spouses as many times as they bought mink coats and Rolexes. I would blame that on a 50% divorce rate. It wasn't so long ago when, if there were a forum like this, the discussion might have centered on whether divorce should be legal.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 08:35 AM

Do you feel better for that Goofus?

I reckon a puppy died when you posted it.

Before you go off on one, just remember there are many reasons for the legal (noting to do with religion) contract called marriage. It is about loving each other. No room in the bed for the bearded interloper unless you want him. Do you think that as my second marriage isn't going to bear children that we lowered the concept? Howsabout an old couple in the 80s then? Shouldn't they get married? Perhaps you should get a test to see if you fire blanks or are barren. Make it illegal for them to get married?

Tosser.

Stupid gormless tosser.

You are right on one thing though. Gay people can do what the fuck they want. So can you. So can the next person you set eyes on.

Celebrate that you can offer such odious hurtful bile without fear of legal retribution. Just as I celebrate that I can point. Out what a disgusting creep you really are.

I am considering stopping my dog from playing with you.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 01:50 AM

I never thought Musket was homophobic...and neither am I...sometimes people get all wound up in political agendas, or the propaganda surrounding an agenda, and start believing shit that isn't even remotely true...even passing laws based on false information and bad science.
Being as 'some' on here fancy themselves as pontifically brilliant, they process information that is emotionally charged, but basically rooted in nonsense. If they were that brilliant, then it seems to me that we'd be RAISING people's awareness, rather than basing policies aimed at the lowest common denominator of responsibility!!
Have you noticed that the same people who are anti cigarettes or anti gun, because they can be harmful, even deadly, are the same people who kick sand all over Akenaton, and demean him, because he is very against HIV/AIDS..which just so happens to be equally harmful, even deadly....and if a person walked into a crowded area with a loaded gun, what a fucking lunatic..and blame the gun!!..BUT if a person walked into the same crowd with HIV/AIDS looking to buttfuck somebody, he becomes the 'sacred cow' of the same quasi-pseudo 'activists'...and we must not hurt their feelings at any cost!!..or you're a 'bigot'!!
What a load of pig-shit!
Sufficeth to say these same assholes, are 'pro-death'..when it suits them, as in free abortions for every irresponsible bitch who gets knocked up....and everybody else has to pay for it, whether it is against their understanding and relationship with God!!...so the next step is to try to kill God...OH!..but wait a minute....there is no God, for them..How fucking convenient!
The same idiots rail 'Pete from seven stars link'...when they have not the remotest clue as to his EXPERIENCE in HIS relationship to God. Pete may come off as a bit of a fundamentalist...but I bet you that he has prayed for certain things or circumstances...or even for a greater capacity to LOVE...and then when the prayer is answered, some jerk off is going to tell him that it never happened????? Why??..Because the prayers weren't cleared by 'Party Headquarters'???
Can't you just see a newborn baby in the arms of the mother while the father is looking on.....just hoping with all their hearts that the kid turns out to be a homosexual?????????????
GET FUCKING SERIOUS!!!...Would the reason they DON'T hope that is because they are 'homophobic bigots'??..Fuck no!..Matter of fact, it's the furthest thing from their minds....and if somebody wants to bitch about that, too...fuck somebody, get her pregnant, have the baby and raise it to be homosexual...that is because it is such a 'hip' place to be!..........Usually when the kid grows up and gravitates to being homosexual, it is DEVASTATING to the parents!..(not to mention the psyche of the kid!).
...and I'm not going to go around that idiotic 'genetic' determined horse-crap again, either!.....nor do I really want to talk about this bullshit any further, with ideologues who don't know diddly-squat about the science of it....but manage to pull up some stupid link to a study, funded by more political hacks, who have been bought and paid for!

Homosexuals can do whatever they fucking want....and now that assholes have LOWERED the standard for marriage to being near meaningless, they want in on it too, with the same degree of acknowledgment as someone who married, with the intention of raising their own kids, wrought by that love and that relationship....and 'adopting' merely for having an accessory is hogwash, too!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 01:25 AM

Too bloody true I am! Ingrowing toe nails have reached epidemic proportions. I suggest all ginger people, regardless of whether they own those curved toe nail clippers be forcefully subjected to testing for inflammation of big toe.

If we don't, society will break down.

Goofus. At least attempt to frame your odd yet suspect sinister bullshit in plain English. It is hard to read so most probably won't bother. I'd hate you to feel people have tacit agreement of your weird views based on not bothering challenging them.

My experience is that lack of challenge leads to thinking it is through agreement in the minds of bigots.

Notice that Jerk, err Jack? I didn't break any rules there. A bit of parody, a bit of reality check for reality's fugitive.

There you go!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Jan 14 - 12:47 AM

Why do you want to argue with me? Won't you be distracted from your conversations with them?

Musket is not a homophobe but he may be a bit of a gingerphobe.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 06:31 PM

Jack the Sailor: "GfS, other posters have covered every point of yours I disagreed with."

Chicken!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 06:28 PM

Muskrat: "Goofus brings homophobia to a new level."..and this one, "I asked a short while ago for a definition of bigotry.
I never thought it would come from Goofus......"

Homophobia and bigotry has NOTHING to do with what I'm talking about...that's in YOUR head!

...and speaking of bigotry...do you got something against people who got married, guy and girl, because they LOVE each other, made love, because they LOVE each other, conceived KNOWINGLY, because they loved each other, had their own baby, stayed together, because they loved each other, funneled that LOVE into their child, because they all loved each other, grew older together, Because they Loved each other....and the child(ren) inherited that, and were nurtured with that....continued on the values that brought them into the world.....

Not divorced, because of some selfish whim, not took in a bum of a guy, because she didn't compromise her intuitions, made a lot excuses, and rationalizations to get abortions, re-married 3 or more times...always blaming someone else....stuck on welfare to get by, while the Ol' man is pursuing 'career opportunities', and new people to fuck..not even paying child support....
Isn't it time that we look UP to people with higher consciousness, than raise up the degenerate, and validate stupid excuses, and animal depravity???
Are you hostile to people who can be successful while being responsible in their care and behavior to their bodily systems???...and not pretending to be something they are not....redefining anything that is wholesome or 'good'..instead of living in it...
...and then call people bigots and homophobes, because they are sick of stupid activists trying to rub their nose in bullshit???

Has NOTHING to do with bigotry or homophobia...and in my above descriptions, I never even mentioned anything about homosexuals.....

BTW, people who HAVE done the aforementioned loving and raising of kids, by their first one and only 'Love'.....tend to agree....it has NOTHING to do with 'hate'....or being foolish and having to make excuses for it...or gathering a movement of like-minded lames!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 03:24 PM

But after Cain slew Abel, he fled to the Land of Nod, which was East of Eden. Now, where did that come from, who populated it to reject him, where did they all come from?...

& re the incest bit: read the story of Lot & his daughters, Gen XIX, 30-36.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 02:57 PM

So at least you know the answer to the question of where Cain got his wife from, jack. They were clear back then from any harm coming from that. And it was,nt till Moses that it was prohibited.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 01:50 PM

Well, it's not my red herring Dave?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 01:17 PM

A bit of homework would not go amiss. Various studies and the relaxing of the law some places shows no serious increase in birth defects. I have no axe to grind here so you can look it up yourselves but, as I said before, red herring.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 11:46 AM

You are correct about the "family dynamic" Jack, that is covered in what I referred to as societal imbalance.
Perhaps I should have made my meaning more clear.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 11:41 AM

"The reason Dave is that it is believed incest would upset the balance of society."

Honestly, I think the reason was more likely "the Bible says so." But I think the Bible said so because people who wrote the Bible observed that close relatives who had offspring had to deal with birth defects. Not to mention the issues in the family dynamic if one member wants to do it while the other does not or is too young to decide.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 11:41 AM

Several people here have suggested just that, Jack, that "gay marriage" equates to monogamy and is likely to have the greatest effect on rising infection rates.

I maintain that this argument is a "smokescreen" and does more harm than good.
More frequent testing and contact tracing in "at risk" groups (MSM being by far the group most "at risk") is required before any impact will be made on halting the epidemic.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 11:31 AM

"Does that point to Homosexual "marriage" as a cure, or even a control on infection rates......Doesn't look like it. "

I don't know of anyone on this Earth who thinks of Gay marriage as control on the spread of STDs. Those gays I know of who have married say it is an expression of love and commitment. I have no reason to doubt that they are being honest about that. I would expect them to be as sentimental as me and that is why I got married.

There are suggestions and rules of hygiene for all human interactions. If straight people are careful about sex, they greatly decrease the odds of getting sick. Same for gays. Statistics suggest that there are some groups of people who are less careful than others. There is no causal effect shown between that and marriage.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 11:06 AM

The reason Dave is that it is believed incest would upset the balance of society.....the norm was heterosexual marriage and since heterosexual marriage has gone into decline, so has society there are now huge numbers of single parent families....causing bewildered and insecure children and additional cost to the benefits agencies.

But, although heterosexual marriage rates are falling and homosexual "marriage" and union rates are rising a little, only amongst MSM are STD infection rates increasing.
Does that point to Homosexual "marriage" as a cure, or even a control on infection rates......Doesn't look like it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 10:51 AM

I have no idea why incest is criminalised. Apart from it is relatively boring. Looks like a red herring in this case. Besides, if that is the only example you can come up with against consenting adults being left alone, it is a pretty poor argument anyway. The number of cases must be absolutely tiny compared to the number of homosexual relationships.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 10:41 AM

>>
Not so very long ago I remember two close relations offered to be sterilised so they could continue their relationship....the offer was refused and the male subsequently committed suicide.<<

This is not an argument in your favor. It poses far more questions than it settles. BTW From a Biblical perspective the story of Adam and Eve and Noah, if taken literally, imply that a lot of incest happened in the booting and rebooting of humanity. Aslo in Noah's case speaking of what nature gave us, incest must have been rampant in the repopulation of the unclean animals.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 10:31 AM

>>
Stu, no matter what we USE sexual intercourse FOR, nature gave us reproductive organs to ensure the survival of the species by reproduction.
Nature made sexual intercourse pleasurable, not so it could be used to sell perfume, mens mags, or fast cars, but to ensure that we reproduce as often as possible <<

"Nature gave us" is not a very scientific or realistic way to describe how these things came about, but lets go with that.

There are also no rules in nature that bar us from finding new uses for the things "Nature gave us." Nature gave us opposable thumbs so that we could peel bananas and to grip branches to swing from them. After five million years we have progressed to the point where that same grip can be used to "pleasure" ourselves and double click on internet porn.

Stu's example of the bonobo is very illustrative. They have a very complex social structure built around dominant females rubbing their junk together.

Would you dare to say that nature did not give lady bonobos their overly large and obvious lady parts to facilitate these homoerotic (to the bonobos) displays of affection?

Have you done a social science class? What is the norm. Is much more complex and nuanced than you have said in this thread. Norms vary from community, tribe to tribe. On the one hand the Norm among say the Puritans of colonial times would be different than the norm among the Romans of Caligula's court. You might think that both societies were outside "the norm" But obviously within their own group, they were not.

Talking about the "norm" and "perversion" is not at all useful in determining what is permissible in society. A couple might enjoy rubbing anchovy paste on each other and licking it off. Certainly that would not be the norm. But it would be no reason to limit the size of purchases of anchovy paste. It may have been the norm to go out to Pub Friday night get a snoot full, slap the wife when she asks for the rent money and impose cold flacid semiconsensual coitus on her. What is the norm is not always right.

Unprotected, promiscuous sex was the norm for many younger people until the AIDS epidemic. No one said it was perverted not to be that way. But lots thought it odd. Now that is not the norm. Things change. People adjust. Societies adjust. Norms adjust to the times. Nature gave us that ability.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 10:07 AM

"Anything happening between consenting adults should be considered their business and no-one else's."
Anything? I do not think that is the case Dave.
In the case of incest, sexual intercourse is criminalised, not for health reasons, but for societal stability.
Not so very long ago I remember two close relations offered to be sterilised so they could continue their relationship....the offer was refused and the male subsequently committed suicide.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 09:56 AM

GfS, other posters have covered every point of yours I disagreed with.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 09:52 AM

Do you only use your arms for waving?

Maybe something else starting with 'wa' and finishing with 'ing' too. Oh, hang on, I guess that would be perverted...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Stu
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 09:44 AM

"I repeat what Keith said,…."so anything is permissible so long as we do it?""

I'm not interested in arguing philosophical points, I can see you won't be persuaded.

I am however stating the fact that sexual behaviour includes activities that goes beyond those required for reproduction: they are also used in bond reinforcement within same-sex groups and the establishment of hierarchies within some animal groups. In fact, 75% of Bonobo sexual activity is non-reproductive, apparently. Do you only use your arms for waving?

This is an observable fact, not an opinion. Google it and read the volumes already published in peer-reviewed journals. Same-sex interaction is widely observed in many animal groups, including humans. It's a variant of normal sexual behaviour.

What is being argued here is how we as a society treat those who engage in same-sex relationships, and I'll leave you guys to sort that out.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: akenaton
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 09:39 AM

"Your character doesn't need slurring, trust me......."

Your remark above validates my little joke Ian....thank you.

You know no more than GUEST (SC) about my character, you do know my views on homosexual health rates, religion, and Capitalism.
Do you define ones character by their views on these subjects? or in the "world according to Ian", do we "non messiahs" not deserve an opinion?

Keep looking in that mirror!! :0)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Militant Atheism' is a propaganda term
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 09:35 AM

>>>From: GUEST,Musket - PM
Date: 16 Jan 14 - 05:02 AM

I asked a short while ago for a definition of bigotry.

I never thought it would come from Goofus......

Go on, I shouldn't but I'm curious. What is legal adultery?

Ignoring all the other howlers you have mumbled, that's the one I am most intrigued about.

Notwithstanding your odd view of IVF and adoption..... <<<

So close! Just one word away from showing a molecule of respect for Max and the members of this forum.   Just one measly too often repeated insult! Come on lad!! Keep trying! You can get there.