BS: lets develop Scotland

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 02:02 PM

Certainly Kendall, ah think ye've got the spirit in ye!

This is another from Davie Robertson, A finishing school for "numpties" of ALL nationalities.

SWEETIE WIVES DRAW NEAR.
The sort of things described in "Sweetie wives draw near" are all harmless enough in themselves, but when they are bundled together and served up as the very epitome of Scottish Culture, they give, in my opinion, a seriously misleading impression of what Scotland is all about.

"Ye guardians o the sacred flame
That burns in Granny's Hielan Hame
Upon the altar, in the shrine
Built there for Auld Scots Mither Mine,
Aside the sacred Rowan Tree,
For worshippers o aw things wee;
Ye sweetie wives draw near.

Ye cringe-inspirin concert turns,
Skirlin sopranos murderin Burns;
Ye prancers tae the fiddle an box,
In tartan sashes an white frocks;
An you that sits an taps yer fit,
An may a decorous "Hooch!" emit:
Ye sweetie wives draw near.

Ye champions o the guid Scots tongue
That never speak it, yet hae clung
Bizarrely tae a word or twae –
"As Granny said," is what ye'll say.
Tae write in Lallans ye've the cheek,
But ape the English when ye speak:
Ye sweetie wives draw near.

An listen here noo, each smert alec
That's learnt a word or twae o Gaelic,
But never got much further on
Than "slà inte mhath" or "pò g mo thò n",
Ye'll aye spectacularly fail
Tae be mistaken for a Gael:
Ye sweetie wives draw near.

Enthusiasts for pipes an drums,
An swingin kilts ower manly bums;
Aw you whae think yer day's been made
When crap like Highland Cathedral's played;
An when yer herts ye wish tae roose,
Watch DVDs o auld Tattoos:
Ye sweetie wives draw near.

Pontificators, deidly borin,
On hoo the tartan should be worn
So's tae avoid sartorial blunder;
But, dearie me, I often wonder –
If ye've nae drawers on, when ye're fartin,
Does that no sometimes soil the tartan?
Ye sweetie wives draw near.

Aye, aw ye folk whae spend yer lives
As couthy auld Scots sweetie wives
O every age an either gender,
An castigate each gross offender
Against yer ain impoverished taste –
Believe me, ye're a waste o space!
Ye sweetie wives draw near.

Intellectual, aye, an arty,
But sometimes coorse, an often clarty;
Oor Scotland has a deep rich vein
O creativity aw her ain;
An shairly noo it's time tae bin
The culture o the shortbreid tin!
Ye sweetie wives draw near.

Sae take a think, an lend a hand,
Yer country's culture tae expand.
A culture built o fire an zest,
An deep abidin interest;
A land o passion an delight
Where only pigs roll in the shite!
Ye sweetie wives draw near."
(Words original. Tune mostly original, with a hint of "The back o Benachie

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 04:17 PM

I'll tell you this "Aken not very much". Half the reason the house prices in Scotland are as high as they are and local kids can't afford them is because Scots have pushed the price up in loads of cases to make more money from those they see as rich. (Not that I have too much problem with exploiting the rich) But the problem is that in doing so, they have priced their own kids out of the market for their own greed. When Mrs Viking and I moved to Orkney we found that many Orcadians thought that anyone from the South was rich and an easy target. They sell bits of their land at inflated prices and their own kids or other Orcadian families can nae afford them, nor the houses built on them. The Orcadians loved selling to the rest of the world because they could get a much higher price.We loved every moment of our life on Orkney and they people we met welcomed us.We love living in Scotland. Our kids studied here,Formed their partnerships here, we will die here and not go back. And most likely we will vote for independence, but not so you can stick your stereotypical gesturing fingers at us but because it is our choice to do so.

It often strikes me how selective the Scots are about their history and they forget how much support the English got from the Scottish Nobles. (Not sure what a noble is...another name for a greedy bastard)Plenty of Scots turned on Scots and fought for the English. There's plenty of very rich Scots who own plenty of very rich lands and houses. Try being a peasant and affording to fish the Tay or the Spey. Luckily, we haven't met many people like you.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 24 Jun 14 - 06:37 PM

I'm Dave The Gnomes mate Dave. I don't much use mudcat any more but this thread intrigued me so I have read it all. Just a few comments. I live off a private pension earned from a british company and I also have a westminster pension earned by 46 years of paying taxes and insurance stamp. I pay taxes to the British government and if Scotland becomes independant I will pay them to the Scottish government. I do not (by dint of work, saving and luck) take anything from the state either British or Scottish.
I wasn't born in Scotland, I chose to live in Scotland not because of an accident of birth but of a love and passion about Scotland and Galloway in particular. I am involved in our local community, pub etc and have never experienced anything like the vitriol I have read on this thread. If Scotland choses independance my pensions will still be paid from the UK because they were earned there. I will however, as I have said, pay my taxes to the Scottish government. Now what part of this do you not like Ake? because your attitude and general unpleasant vituperation are not what I am accustomed to from Gallovidians.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 01:36 AM

If the weird ones hadn't noticed, we are all British and have shared responsibility for the last few hundred years.

Voting for local decision making at every level may be commendable although not advisable in the circumstances. This crap about misty eyed nationalism and blaming everyone the other side of an arbitrary border for all your woes though doesn't cut it with many people.

Songs and jingoism may get a few irresponsible votes but sober analysis of promises from an idealistic politician who answers questions by saying other politicians will have to change their minds whilst he won't?

I wasn't aware the majority of people voting were thick as pigshit.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 02:00 AM

Reading through the songs lovingly "cut-n-pasted" by the likes of Ake I am grateful that they are lengthy enough and boring enough so as to never be performed - those listening would fall asleep half way through them.

No Kendall, thankfully you do not get a vote.

Eric the Viking is perfectly correct Ake, the price of property is set by the owner and he/she is free to sell it to whoever will meet his/her price. Therefore to blame the price of property on those who buy is complete and utter stupidity.

This whole referendum fiasco was driven by less than 25% of the electorate of Scotland, it has wasted millions and will prove divisive and harmful to Scotland. The vote on the 18th September I think will be NO, I certainly hope so.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 04:04 AM

Wot he said

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: kendall
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 05:30 AM

Guid nicht!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 05:42 AM

Thanks Dave - Didn't expect to see you on here! Confirms what I said all along. Erik - Well put as well. Now, can we put it to bed? It is blatantly obvious that the attitudes in Scotland are not predominately the ones that ake displays.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Seaham cemetry
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 09:28 AM

Akenaton's attitudes leave much to be concerned over.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 09:57 AM

I think you are wrong Mr T, the buying price of houses have very much affected the rents that are charged; also the shortage of affordable housing to buy, pushes more people into the rental market....and it is sellers market at the moment.

A little statistic to ponder, there are now around 450,000( around 1 in 12) English "immigrants" who have moved to live in Scotland and almost 80% of them are reckoned to be "NO" voters.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 10:02 AM

So how many Scots have fucked off to live and work in England,
and what difference would a 'yes' vote mean to them ?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 10:02 AM

Seaham Cemetery, if we should be concerned about the attitudes of members here, your name would be top of the list.

You are a libellous stalker. You still have a chance to apologise publically for your disgusting and completely untrue allegations, but time is running out.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 10:37 AM

Seems there's only 3 Scots contributing to this thread and they all favour Independence.

Most of the rest, with a couple of honourable exceptions, love Scotland so much that they don't want it to change....the second class lives of many of our young folk, the despair associated with decades of neglect...the benefit culture in place of a real life.
The theft of our resources to finance that culture.
The dumping of nuclear weapons on our soil, against the wishes of the Scottish people, the foreign wars of aggression that we marched against....Iraq, Libya, and support for "democracy" in the clothes of Islamic fundamentalism all over the Middle East!

Well thank you very much, but take your love and stick it where the sun don't shine, we'll have our country free and if we make mistakes they will be our mistakes. We have no pretensions of being a "world power", we will be a small trading nation, but a proud and free one.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 10:45 AM

GUEST, only a tiny proportion of the population of England are Scottish, and I don't believe their votes on any issue would make much difference.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 10:57 AM

Yes but what practical & bureaucratic differences would a 'Yes" vote make to the status and lives
of Scots living and working in the rest of Britain

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:01 AM

Isn't it wonderful. My friends who we stayed with in Inveraray a few weeks ago made it quite clear they are voting no.

Guess what? They are English!

Guess what? They are gay!

Guess what? They have as much right as Akenaton, as much say as Akenaton and their residence has as much validity as that of Akenaton.

No such thing as an English immigrant. They are UK citizens just like Akenaton, only not so prone to embarrass people in polite company by spewing bigoted shameful bile.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:04 AM

I don't think it would make any practical difference GUEST, any Scottish national wishing to live and work in England would be subject to the taxation requirements of that country, as would English living and working in Scotland.

Perhaps Independence would encourage most to return home and make a start on building the new Scotland?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:11 AM

My point is that the ENGLISH vote(both homo and hetero), on whether or not we become an independent nation, will possibly make a considerable difference to the result.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:12 AM

Passports ? immigration status ? visas ? etc.. ?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:24 AM

Cross border buying and selling of goods ? customs taxes + admin fees ?
VAT ?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:32 AM

Border control ? smuggling ? etc etc ...???

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 11:49 AM

For GUEST

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 12:01 PM

Ok, but there's well over 600 points in that FAQ..

- a bit like asking a religiously inclined mate a quick question about his beliefs
and being told to fuck off and read the Bible.......


All I want to know right now is if after a "Yes" vote, if I buy a mail order guitar from a Scottish seller,
will it be like buying from USA and having to pay extortionate import duties, Vat, and admin fees on top ???

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 12:48 PM

According to Business Scotland, there should be no change to sales within the UK Answer here

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 25 Jun 14 - 03:06 PM

I wasn't aware Business Scotland were in a position to say that. If Scotland is not part of The EU, there may be trade duty with EU members, of which The UK is a member. If they don't accept UK interest rate conditions for using sterling, you may have exchange rates to consider...

All academic hopefully. Not every Scottish person has the low IQ and bitter nationalistic persona of Akenaton. Most are, to coin a Scottish phrase, too canny to fall for promises that can't be backed up.

Mind you, it would be ironic if the margin of the no result was less than the number of people born in England who voted. It means fuck all, but still, adds another entry to Akenaton's list of people to blame for his sad sorry situation.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Seaham Cemetry
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 06:17 AM

I have just completed a short tour of duty at an airbase in the North of Scotland. I am English.

It amazes me how attitudes alter with circumstance. The small towns and villages around here rely on the only real large employer, the civilian posts here and the infrastructure to support the airbase and RAF Regiment barracks. The future of the airbase could be in jeopardy if a yes vote carries. NATO need and wish for presence up here but not sure of the politics around seeing Scotland as a full partner.

A few miles away from the influence and the farming communities are reading with interest the SNP claims that an independent Scotland within The EU stands for lots of farming subsidies so vote yes for self interest. The SNP appear to have a low opinion of its own electorate, let alone the queue to join The EU, on EU terms.

In Glasgow recently when my wife had a couple of her dogs racing, I was chatting with lots of people over the evening and the vote was the big topic. I didnt see much enthusiasm from there for independence, although a few good jokes were told about those who want it.

The vote will be interesting, and I predict the reasonable turnout for the yes campaign will give the next Westminster government food for thought in extending further devolution. Which for many, with the safeguards of The UK and more local decision making, is a win win.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 08:18 AM

This exchange is absolutely priceless:

Guest: "All I want to know right now is if after a "Yes" vote, if I buy a mail order guitar from a Scottish seller,
will it be like buying from USA and having to pay extortionate import duties, Vat, and admin fees on top ???

Akenaton: "According to Business Scotland, there should be no change to sales within the UK"

The referendum in which you are voting YES is for for Scotland to leave, i.e. put itself voluntarily outside, the UK

Oh by the way here is one Scot who definitely will not vote YES.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 08:41 AM

Akenaton:

" the buying price of houses have very much affected the rents that are charged; also the shortage of affordable housing to buy, pushes more people into the rental market....and it is sellers market at the moment."

The rents are levied by the owners of the property and in Scotland they will be predominantly Scottish born and bred.

The prices of houses for sale in Scotland will in all probability be being sold by owners/sellers who are predominantly Scottish born and bred.

"A little statistic to ponder, there are now around 450,000( around 1 in 12) English "immigrants" who have moved to live in Scotland and almost 80% of them are reckoned to be "NO" voters."

As Musket has said there are no English "immigrants" in Scotland and as British citizens registered on electoral rolls in Scotland they are perfectly entitled to vote which ever damn way they please.

Off the top of my head I believe that the number of ex-pat Scots living and working down in England is somewhere in the region of ~800,000.

"Perhaps Independence would encourage most to return home and make a start on building the new Scotland?"

With the levels of Tax Jowly Eck & Co will have to introduce I wouldn't expect that number to be great and I doubt very much if "Shurr Shean" is going to pop over from the Caymans to help you out.

"The dumping of nuclear weapons on our soil, against the wishes of the Scottish people"

Actually Ake more Scots want the bases, the subs, the weapons and the work to remain exactly where it is than want it removed - 51% compared to 39%.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:04 AM

I know that you are normally factually correct Mr T, but people selling small houses in the South of England for large sums then coming into the Scottish property market have certainly inflated house prices here and that inflation works its way through to the rental sector.

If your figure of 800.000 is correct, it is only a tiny percentage of the English population and as I have said would make little difference to voting returns.
The voting intentions of the English in Scotland are sure to be a serious factor in the referendum result.
Of course everyone living here has the right to vote, but does it not seem hypocritical to come here, take advantage of the social benefits fought for by the Scottish Government, then vote against their declared policies?
BTW the word "immigrant" was used tongue in cheek, for the benefit of our mutual friend Ian.....as I'm sure you're well aware.

Didn't know YOU were a Scot Mr T.....my goodness, that explains your command of facts and your ability to see through much of the bullshit we have to put up with.

Sorry you wont be voting Yes.
What will you do if Scotland votes FOR independence?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:18 AM

Sorry, I should have said, no change to sales between an independent Scotland and the remainder of the UK.
It's all in the link.
I don't think "War Work" is particularly health for a small trading nation to engage in.
Hopefully most of the historic association between Scots and brutal warfare will start to diminish with Independence.
In was a symptom of how we were exploited by the Union. Young workless lads? Oh just get them intae the Army, cannon fodder for the Empire.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:34 AM

Hopefully most of the historic association between Scots and brutal warfare will start to diminish with Independence.
In was a symptom of how we were exploited by the Union. Young workless lads? Oh just get them intae the Army, cannon fodder for the Empire.

I think that just about takes the biscuit so far, although I am sure you have a few more gems up your sleeve, ake.

Being cannon fodder was nothing to do with being Scottish. Do you think no-one from Lancashire or Yorkshire or Northumberland was hard done by in times of conflict? Get that chip off your shoulder and eat it with your deep fried pie.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Seaham Cemetry
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:42 AM

As I stated above, noted by Teribus, the defence industry is vital in many ways to the economy of Scotland. The first thing an independent Scotland would have to do is call an election. In it, I doubt SNP or any other serious party would repeat the "remove the submarines" ticket.

Salmond has already hinted at negotiating keeping UK defence infrastructure within Scotland. He can do that because he isn't saying an independent Scotland would remove them, he is saying an independent Scotland could remove them. Remember, this referendum isn't about SNP and it's policies, it's about freedom to enact policies they and others can't carry out right now.

He's a politician, if you hadn't noticed.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Seaham cemetry
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 09:45 AM

On other matters, a few posts ago, Akenaton asked me to apologise TO him.

Whih would be odd, because most people apologise FOR him.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 10:59 AM

Seaham Cemetery, some time ago on this forum, you stated libellously that I had passed some of my racing dogs on to a builder in Seaham who was in the "business" of killing unwanted dogs of all varieties.

This was an outright lie and could be damaging to me as a trainer and owner. My lawyer reckons it is actionable under the new legislation, he has the post on file and awaits my instructions.

I await your apology, or some proof of the veracity of your allegations.

Dave, yes I agree the youth of North of England has been exploited as much as the Scots by the UK war machine, but they do not appear to have learn much from he experience

Freedom for Northumberland!

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 12:02 PM

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 12:34 PM

Whilst not wishing to get embroiled in an argument between racing dog trainers, how would legal action of this type work between The UK and a foreign Scotland I wonder?

The alert to my ISP over incitement to hatred as displayed by Akenaton is straight forward. They pass it to the police pan constabulary unit who decide if it is worth pursuing and using international agreements require Mudcat Cafe Music Foundation Inc to pass on Akenaton's IP address and give his details to the local plod. Keeps it all in house in Scotland, as the pan constabulary unit can carry on or just work as two.

Akenaton and Seaham Cemetery having their discussion in public dragged into a legal sphere? Not sure how that could work between countries, at least in the years prior to Scotland being able to join The EU and cross border cooperation.

Interesting...

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 12:34 PM

but they do not appear to have learn much from he experience

While the youth of Scotland have???

D.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 03:16 PM

Oh, and BTW Dave, yes I agree the youth of North of England has been exploited as much as the Scots by the UK war machine

Is as nonsensical as your first statement. Nothing to do with the North of England either. All young men from deprived backgrounds have always been cannon fodder. You cannot categorise people by where they live. How many times do I need to say everyone should be measured on their own merits. Not their country, creed or colour.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 06:46 PM

If Scotland votes for independence, then presumably every registered voter living in Scotland at that time would become a Scot. Which means I could apply for a Scottish passport.....Oh no, silly of me Scotland doesn't have a passport office, or any embassies. Never mind I could get a Scottish drivers licence...Ooops problems problems. Who would issue me with my car tax then.....VOSA MOT becomes problematical too. I bet Mr Salmond has factored all these in. I can just see it now. For the opening of 189 embassies 50,000 Scottish pounds. For building a tax and excise office s£20,000. Running above s£100,000 per annum. Passport office s£.......it's a joke it really is until the yes campaign tell the truth about costs of independence. On a financial level it will be a disaster. Oil revenues are tax collection only. Last figures "In the last two years Corporation Tax
revenues have declined by 60% from £8.8
billion in 2011-12 to £3.6 billion in
2013-14 and Petroleum Revenue Tax by 45%
from £2.0 billion to £1.1 billion in 2013-14." My source for the above is HM Revenue and customs Statistics of
Government revenues
from UK oil and gas
production.
Mr Salmond forcasted 12 Billion a year. Do you think that governments dictate oil and gas revenues. Wake up and smell the crude. They are dictated by the big oil corps who will shift extraction to obtain the most favourable tax costs and profits where they can. They will screw Salmond to the ground. They don't give a monkeys about the UK do you think they will go shiney eyed over an independent Scotland. We will be financially fucked if we go independent and my greater fear is there will be no going back for the coming generations.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 07:04 PM

.....I have to say too. The costs for the Scottish parliament building Estimated at £40 million by Scotland. Was eventually built by Scotland for £414 million. The Edinburgh tram. £375 Million over budget, half the size first designed and 5 years late. Built and designed by Scotland......Salmond says trust me.....I can only hope and pray that the polulation of Scotland don't.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 01:37 AM

Five years late Dave? And the rest...

It's academic anyway, I remain convinced that the voters are more sophisticated than that and not everybody has the low intellect of Akenaton. There are only so many idealistic votes borne of ignorance. When ex iron curtain or ex war zone countries emerge, the west fall over themselves to help bear the cost of nationhood. I doubt anyone will give aid to a petulant series of UK counties with a referendum.

The benefits of removing even more Westminster decisions are very tempting. Tempting for anywhere outside of the Home Counties. But I doubt Rutland or North East Lincolnshire would wish to open embassies as the price. Having been on many trade jollies over the years, embassy caviar bills alone must make your eyes water.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 03:33 AM

Caviar? "You're spoiling us, Ambassador!"

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 04:24 AM

Bloody am. Not impressed with the stuff.. (I do not know if I have ever been offered caviar at an embassy bun fight. I can however confirm that having been to many in lots of different countries over the years, I have never ever been offered Ferrero Rocher chocolates.......)

I tried caviar (best Beluga) when I was in Azerbaijan a few years ago, as let's face it, that's where most of it comes from. The locals have a Marmite approach to it, they either spread it on toast or don't touch the stuff. (Cheap as chips in Baku markets.)

Presumably haggis can have the same approach if a closed Scotland limits availability. That's how the soviets did it with caviar. I don't know if they graze south of the border, and to be fair, I have never seen them in the wild, not even the more common clockwise ones. McSweens only catch clockwise haggis for the better taste.

Haggi?

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 05:13 AM

Get your facts right Dave!
Both of the projects which you cite, were instigated, promoted and costed by the Westminster parties, Labour and the Lib Dems.
Both projects were strongly opposed by Mr Salmond and the SNP when they were in opposition.
The costing was ludicrous and helped the pro devolution parties to push the projects to the public, as a sop against REAL independence.

This misinformation and downright lying by the "NO" campaign, has been an unfortunate feature of this debate

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 05:55 AM

Ian, there is a simple answer, either get your friend put up some proof of his allegations, or apologise. Quite simple.
Failing that, action shall be instigated long before Independence, so stop fretting.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 09:27 AM

Akenaton:

The referendum question to be decided upon on the 18th September 2014 will be put not to the people of Scotland but to the electorate of Scotland as a whole - period - not to Scots voters, not to English voters, not to Polish voters or voters of any other category or label you want to use. The electorate of Scotland will vote and I believe that they will vote "NO" using their commonsense and not emotion, they will do so for the step they are being asked to take by the Yes Campaign in irreversible - once broken the Union can never be remade.

The result of the referendum will I believe be NO, and to those in the Yes Camp who say that they will just try again I would sincerely hope that the next time a referendum on Scottish independence is proposed the electorate of Scotland get a chance to state beforehand whether or not they want one, had that been the case this current referendum with its monstrous waste of time, effort and money would never have occurred it was pushed through by the SNP, for the SNP by less than one-quarter of the electorate of Scotland. The ridiculous White Paper "Scotland's Future" is little more than a "rose-tinted" SNP Manifesto full of baseless assumptions which when put up for critical review crumble to dust and prove worthless.

You ask what I will do if Scotland votes for independence? Make sure my money is safe then sit back and watch the train-wreck as it unfolds - It took us 350 years of internal bickering and greed the last time to destroy what we had and bring our nation to its knees. With our current crop of professional politicians I reckon it will not last three-and-a-half decades before Scotland is reduced to basket case status - possibly some Russian oligarch will buy it as a curio

"Hopefully most of the historic association between Scots and brutal warfare will start to diminish with Independence.
In was a symptom of how we were exploited by the Union. Young workless lads? Oh just get them intae the Army, cannon fodder for the Empire."

IIRC life in Scotland pre-Act of Union was a damned sight more brutal and warlike than ever it was after.

During the Jacobite Rebellions more Scots fought for the Government side than ever fought for the rebels. They did so not wishing for a return of "the bad old days" - THEY, the majority of Scots saw the tangible benefits of Union as opposed to the empty promises of France and the "pie-in-the-sky" Jacobites.

Poor working class lads eh? Exploited by the Union? If that is what you think you know little of the history of most of our Scottish Regiments both Highland and Lowland.

The Black Watch (42nd Regiment of Foot) for instance of "Twa Recruitin' Sergeants" fame - they, because they were not Clan based were the only Regiment that actually used recruiting parties and even then on their first being raised all men were "gentleman soldiers", all were volunteers and all had to bring with them letters of introduction and character, literally hundreds were turned away.

Fastest Regiment ever raised in the British Isles to serve under the colours was the 25th Regiment of Foot - The Kings Own Scottish Borderers - it took them less than 40 minutes to enlist over 800 men - again all volunteers.

79th Regiment of Foot - The Cameron Highlanders - raised by one of the Clan Chiefs with money from his own pocket - all volunteers

John Prebble in his book on the Clearances details the contribution made by volunteers from the Isle of Skye to Britain's armed forces during the Napoleonic War - it was staggering in terms of numbers which included Officers over the rank of Colonel, Line Officers, NCOs and men (over 10,000 of the latter IIRC)

Any claim to Scottish feats of arms mainly post-date 1707 and were won wearing Scarlet Coats and under Union Colours - prior to that the track record wasn't that brilliant.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Gutcher
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 09:58 AM

Something not mentioned in this thread as far as I can see having just read all the posts ----the scam worked by some of our wide awake southern neighbours in more than one area of our country.
This scam involved families who having moved up here then bringing their parents to live with them and then making the parents homeless they then having to be given social housing by the local authority which in due time they purchased at a discounted price.
This scam has of this week been scuppered as no social housing can now be sold.
These are the type of people who are not welcomed in our country nor should they be in any self respecting country and any attempt to justify them cannot be condoned.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Musket
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 10:15 AM

Will someone tell Akenaton this is not an election? You are voting for Labour, Conservative, Greens, SNP, Lib Dem, Monster Raving Looney and all the rest. This is not about SNP in power or out. They just happens be in the yes camp.

To say that Salmond opposed something Labour brought in has any bearing on this referendum just shows the need for information as Akenaton clearly doesn't even know what he is voting for! He thinks it is a party political vote for crying out loud!

Gutcher isn't the sort you'd want to chat with either. It isn't your country. It's The UK.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: Gutcher
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 11:46 AM

It may be to you the UK but it was never so by the will of the majority of the people of Scotland---go read your history.
Musket comes over in any thread he contributes to as just the type of person who would praise the downright rottenesss of some of his fellow countrymen and their malpractices.
As to selling property and the local people not being able to compete with purchasers from what, is to me, a foreign country I have long wished we had the laws that are available to some continental countries whereby locals [citizens] can buy at one price and others have to pay some four or five times the local purchase price.

Subject: RE: BS: lets develop Scotland
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 27 Jun 14 - 01:10 PM

Like the cut of your jib, Butcher :-)