BS: David Cameron is execrable

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 03:23 PM

Rag,
Douglas T. Kenrick, Ph.D., is the Professor of Social Psychology at Arizona State University, and is author of over 200 scientific articles, books, and book chapters, the majority applying evolutionary ideas to human behavior and thought processes. At a theoretical level, his work integrates three great syntheses of the last few decades: evolutionary psychology, cognitive science, and dynamical systems theory. Much of that work has been funded by NIMH and NSF and has been reported in journals including Behavioral and Brain Sciences, Psychological Review, Perspectives on Psychological Science, Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, and Evolution and Human Behavior. Kenrick has edited several books on evolutionary psychology, contributed chapters to the Handbook of Social Psychology and the Handbook of Evolutionary Psychology, and been an author of two multi-edition textbooks (Social Psychology: Goals in Interaction, with Steve Neuberg and Bob Cialdini, is now in its 5th edition).

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 03:28 PM

Professor I am able to read, I am also able to cut and paste. I am also able to perceive from an article the point that an author is trying to make.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 03:30 PM

And I agree with Al.
The behaviour of DtG, Musket, Rag, Steve and Jim in relation to another member of this forum has been execrable.
Al should never have been labelled as he was, and nor should any other member.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 03:49 PM

How was Al 'labelled' and for what, Keith? You are very fond of asking for chapter and verse. Provide us evidence of what actually happened and your point may become credible. Until you do it is my word against Al's and we have already stated our cases. Feel free to believe one or the other but unless you have any facts you are merely speculating.

The behaviour of DtG, Musket, Rag, Steve and Jim in relation to another member of this forum has been execrable.

Facts, Keith. Facts are all that matter in any such debate, not opinions. Give us verifiable facts rather than unsubstantiated allegations.

Again, I will not hold my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 04:49 PM

maybe based on familiarity with your techniques of villification
you've had a good run with it.

did you really expect it to work for ever.

you know the one about fooling some of the people all the time...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 04:53 PM

I think you may have fooled more than one or two in your day, Al. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 04:53 PM

" DtG, Musket, Rag, Steve and Jim in relation to another member of this forum "
Do not make snide referenbces to me without proof
I have never accused anybody of anything unjustly - you, above anybody should know this.
Back up your snide statement
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 05:47 PM

"I have never accused anybody of anything unjustly - you, above anybody should know this.
Back up your snide statement"

Jim Carroll
Jim Carroll is the man that accused me of being a talentless moron.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 05:53 PM

" DtG, Musket, Rag, Steve and Jim in relation to another member of this forum "

Kindly apprise me of the name of the person I'm supposed to have treated so badly and tell me which posts of mine contained the offending material. Until then, I don't know what you're talking about, and I regard these vague and unfocussed allegations as scurrilous and mischievous. Hardly surprising, of course, considering the source.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 06:06 PM

Jim...."I have never accused anybody of anything unjustly "....yes you have, you have accused me of homophobia.

I oppose homosexual "marriage" not homosexuals or homosexuality.
To do so would be rank stupidity homosexuality is a fact of life as is addiction, I feel sorrow for those who have felt the need to travel that path, not fear or hatred.
In saying that, I believe the legislation to redefine marriage to accommodate a sexual minority with such associated health problems, is bad for the future of society.

I believe that increased testing and contact tracing within the demographic is required urgently, and the issue of "open" relationships within MSM subjected to scientific study.
This will save many lives and cut down the number of male homosexuals serving out a life sentence on retroviral medication.

Does your twisted ideology blind you so much that you believe that to be homophobia?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 07:00 PM

You say you oppose homosexual "marriage". You equate homosexuality with addiction. You regard homosexuals as having the need to "travel a path". You are homophobia personified. You are disgusting.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 01:35 AM

Steve   -just who the hell are you to tell someone how they should feel?

I have explained at tedious length how and why my Father's generation felt that way about homosexuality. It was actually my father's job as a copper in Boston to lurk about the bogs in the park arresting the poor sods who were cottaging. I've seen lecture notes supplied to him by the leading forensic scientists of the day explaining how anal intercourse could kill you.

you are not going to wipe out those sort of cultural weirdnesses in a generation just by wishing it so.

you lose all the moral highground when you tell another human being that their very existence is disgusting.

I can't help feeling that you are just jumping on the bandwagon abusing an old man.

You are too doctrinaire PC to tackle the homophobic attitude coming out of some of the mosques. I used to find those attitudes in the essays of kids that I taught. And of course - you had to tread very carefully not to upset their cultural values.

You just give an old man a good kicking cos all the other mindless types are piling in. I bet Ake's kids don't feel the same way he does - because they have grown up in a more liberal society.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 02:45 AM

I see there are still no answers to my questions, ake. Your silence speaks volumes.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:25 AM

You are too doctrinaire PC to tackle the homophobic attitude coming out of some of the mosques.

The homophobic (and sexist) attitude coming out of some mosques is terrible. There are some Imams who are firmly in the 11th century and they need to come into the 21st.

There, will that do?

There are also many Imams and practising Muslims (of which I work with many) who ARE firmly in the 21st century and are as tolerant as anyone. More tolerant than some.

The issue is not about PC doctrine or age old attitudes. It is about stereotyping. When you stereotype any group you de-humanise them. It is a practice that I grew up with and I often have to force myself to break our of old habits, but I do and it is worth the effort. Branding whole swathes of society as this, that or the other because of their race, culture, creed or sexual preference is simply wrong. People are individuals and we should look at their individual merits and faults, not brand them because of how or where they were born.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:44 AM

"I oppose homosexual "marriage" not homosexuals or homosexuality."
You have persistently depicted homosexuality as unnatural and have, at least once, described the practice as spreading the Gay plague
Describing same sex marriage as an attack on (your particular) family values is homophobic - and none of your business.
You have suggested that homosexuality tends towards pedophilia
The world has moved on - homosexuality is now fully accepted as a natural act.
Comparing homosexuality to addiction - (a self-imposed act) is homophobic - it is the way some people are, not what what they take a decision on - that is a long-established fact and until you get your head around it, you will remain homophobic.
The idea that homosexuality is a curable disease (like addiction) is a myth peddles by religious nutters.
Your patronising "sorrow for those who have felt the need to travel that path" is homophobic in the extreme
Homosexuality is a natural state for some people - like being left-handed.
Every posting you make on homosexuality serves only to make our point.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 04:48 AM

Branding people because of creed is very common on this forum. I have read threads here that have practically accused people of child abuse for raising children within a religious tradition. Absolute bigotry widely tolerated by many here.
People are wrongly accused of racism where none is present.the accusation of racism against Al W was cruel and uncalled for, one of the nastiest things I have seen on this forum.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:04 AM

" I have read threads here that have practically accused people of child abuse for raising children within a religious tradition. "
Nobody here has ever suggested such a thing, and in the years I have been a member, I have never known anybody to have suggested it
Can you give an example?
People are accused of racism on the basis of what they write (I can't remember Al's case, but I do know he implicated me in that accusation, which was uncalled for).
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:13 AM

HiLo

the accusation of racism against Al W was cruel and uncalled for

Please provide facts for your claim. If you can link to the actual thread so everyone can see what happened it would resolve a few issues. As with the others, I will not hold my breath.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:15 AM

Al made no racist comment and was hounded on this forum.
I have no desire to set myself up as a target for the same simply because my beliefs and observations differ from yours!

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:16 AM

well come to that Dave - i see no reply to my points asking for toleration being shown to an old bloke.

the viewpoints Ake takes on this subject are similar to those voiced by the generation that used to say the only good German is a dead one...

you don't hear that too often nowadays.

theres just no need for this vicious self righteous bullshit'

unless of course you're a gang of vicious self righteous bullshitters, which quite frankly i am beginning to suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Hilo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:43 AM

I recall what I read and it was very nasty. If you doubt my memory , fine. I too would be glad to see the thread where it took place. If you could produce parts of here that would disprove my recollection, I would be glad to read it.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:43 AM

I fear Al that you are making excuses for intolerance. I too was born into a society (and religion) that held no truck for homosexuals. However, as I grew older I realised that I was at fault for holding those views and there was no reason at all to criticise other people for being different from myself. Be that difference, sexual orientation, race or colour. Homophobia is not acceptable. FULL STOP.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:44 AM

HiLo

You have still provided no evidence of what actually happened. Until that stage your statements are unsubstantiated and will be ignored.

Al

I will, and have, shown toleration for anyone anything apart from the wilful demonisation of whole sections of society because of the group they belong to. There is just no need for it in this day and age. Even if you were, like me, brought up with it.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:49 AM

Dave, the thread where you unjustly applied that label to Al may have gone, but many will have seen it and no-one who did will forget it.
If you deny it now, you are just revealing more of your real self.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Hilo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 05:56 AM

The disappearance of the thread seems to be working in your favour Dave. I stand by my memory Of it because I was appalled by it. Ignore it if you wish , makes. O odds to me .

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 06:09 AM

I am not denying anything, Keith. Just saying that my recollection is that it was not unjust.

In the words of HiLo

If you doubt my memory , fine. I too would be glad to see the thread where it took place. If you could produce parts of here that would disprove my recollection, I would be glad to read it.

I am quite willing to let the moderators decide if they want to bring it back on line and if my memory proves to be faulty I would be happy to apologise.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 06:17 AM

No odds to me, either HiLo. I am equally certain that whatever was said was justified.

I was quite happy to let whatever happened lie but please bear in mind that it was Al that has brought it up on multiple threads. It is Al that is concerned about his reputation and yet, even though there is no longer any trace of what happened, he keeps bringing it up for all to see. The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:14 AM

Blimey, Al. I don't think I've ever uttered a word against you, now I get this. I'm in a gang of some kind, a conspiracy. I'm kicking an old man when he's down. Wow.

Al, millions of people still share his views. Gradually, they are dying out, the world is changing and homophobia will become unacceptable, eventually laughable. But most of those millions keep those views to themselves. Akenaton does not only stick his head above the parapet, he stands on the parapet to tell the world. And his views stink. What Jim said. You seem to be telling us that here, on a public forum, he should be able to get away with saying whatever he wants while the rest of us must shut up. Well I don't agree with that, because leaving his disgusting attitudes unchallenged would make the whole place look like it's declared open season on gay people. That cannot be right. He tells it like he thinks it is, so we respond in kind. That's all. And I don't care how bloody old he is. I don't even know unless he tells me. Just don't ask me to silently tolerate the intemperate remarks of a supremely intolerant man. It's a discussion forum, not a platform for untrammelled hate speech.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:26 AM

right . there is no excuse for intolerance. but theres an explanation. why do you think all these old fuckers read the daily mail. for a challenging read...informed debate?

i could understand you being outraged by the educated people writing for the mail, who pander to these opinions. but Ake....well he's like the old bloke you hear muttering behind you in the queue at Tesco. leave him alone!

and this....well i never did! stuff. you CAN'T be as outraged as you pretend.

as i've said before - its just bad behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:29 AM

Branding people because of creed is very common on this forum. I have read threads here that have practically accused people of child abuse for raising children within a religious tradition. Absolute bigotry widely tolerated by many here.

I have not read a single comment that brands people because of their creed. I have seen plenty of comments that condemn people for assuming that their creed is the one and only truth to the extent of ignoring evidence and unjustly refuting the work of scientists, and I have have seen plenty of comments that brand people for forcing their faith on others, children in particular, seeking to indoctrinate them with what is evidence-free myth peddled as truth. There is a difference, and you'd do well to make the distinction. I've made plenty of the latter type of comments myself. I have also said, countless times, that your faith is your business and you should be respected for it, as long as you keep it to yourself and don't have aspirations to make it anybody else's business. Including your kids'. The job of grown-ups is to give children the skills and the hunger to seek knowledge, not to tell them that things that can't be substantiated are true and needn't be questioned, and sign them up to your particular faith club.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:31 AM

He doesn't mutter at the back of the queue, Al. He stands on a soapbox in the car park.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:37 AM

"The disappearance of the thread seems to be working in your favour"
The disappearance of threads is working in the favour of anybody who is making claims that need substantiation, such as yours on people linking belief with paedophilia - I would state categorically that it has never happened while I have been a member otherwise I would have objected - while I am an atheist, many of my family are not.
This idea of "gangs" needs knocking on the head
It seems that the majority of people who take part in these arguments are reasonably tolerant and humane in their arguments - there are refreshingly, very few racists and bigots, but there are a few (you could count them on one hand)
When they express their obnoxious, and on occasion, illegal views, it produces anger - natural enough.
That is not being a member of "a gang" - it is people who agree with each other agreeing.
The newest thing is accusing people of expressing views to win support and foster admiration - if that takes on, we will have no basis for continuing these discussion - this section of the forum will have no purpose.
We should not even be having this "you said - no I didn't" discussion here - it has nothing whatever to do with the subject and it's depriving those who have something to say on the OP from having there say.
Can I suggest we put a stop to our undemocratic behaviour and take this up elsewhere - maybe pistols at dawn somewhere.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:45 AM

Many people think that marriage is a man/woman thing, as it always has been.
It is a valid opinion and widely held. A large minority.

No-one should be labelled as a homophobe or a bigot for that. It was the status quo within our lifetimes.

Why not just challenge those views and argue against them?
It is because you can't do that, that you all resort to abusive labelling and name calling instead.

And you tell yourselves and each other that it is something noble that you do.
It is not.
It is inadequacy.
He can beat you every time in debate, so you run from it, streaming nasty words over your shoulders as you go.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:46 AM

but Ake....well he's like the old bloke you hear muttering behind you in the queue at Tesco. leave him alone!

Crikey! That is a bit of a turnaround. You have gone from castigating me for saying he is the village idiot to describing him as a village idiot that should be ignored. I am all for people muttering behind me in the queue but when they start to bang into the back of my knees with their trolley, it's about time to say something.

As to being outraged. Well, I'm not. There is enough real stuff going on for me to spare any outrage for people who I do not know or care about on an insignificant internet forum. I just do not like to see stereotypical abuse go unchallenged. Abuse me? I don't care. Abuse Ake? Fine. Abuse a group of people because of how they were born? No way!

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 07:54 AM

There was only one question about rights amongst my three, Keith. Neither that nor the other two have had a response from ake. Let us narrow it down to one to make it easier.

Do you, ake, believe that homosexuals are perverts? Yes or No.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:06 AM

Dave, I am very happy for you that life is good for you just now.
Ake is living through a long standing and ongoing personal tragedy.
It amazes me that he manages to join in debate here at all, and his treatment when he comes here saddens me.

He may well have a different definition to you of what "pervert" means.
Would you remain on good and friendly terms with someone who was a pervert by your definition?

We know that Ake is on such terms with some gay men and couples, so I would say he does not regard them as perverts by your definition.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:15 AM

"Linking belief with paedophilia", My god Jim are you barking mad. How in hell did you make that leap. I said nor intended no such thing. It is that kind of absurd reasoning that makes so many of these threads unpleasant. How you have arrived at that conclusion is beyond me. But you are a scary man.
    Steve, I disagree with your take on belief and the raising of children. I was brought up in a very orthodox religious home, the most heated debates were held round our kitchen table. We were encouraged to question everything and to take nothing for granted. I do not feel that I have been indoctrinated, but rather enriched by that experience.
    You do make some rather sweeping assumptions about how people of faith , or raised in religious homes are brought up.
    There are millions of intellectually enlightened people of all faiths, don"t confuse us with nutters and bigots.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:22 AM

I haven't valled anybody an idiot. the generation that hold all those views are the generation that fought for our freedoms and created a national health service etc. they're not idiots.

its just that time and the country has moved on. maybe not at the breakneck speed in some parts of the country as others.

what is the basis of your need for abuse?

You say the evidence is gone despite everybody remeembering it in graphic detail. if this was a court case - there would be enough witnesses to convict.

Jim says its not a gang activity - although you all seem to stand in a ring. that's what it feels like to be on the receiving end.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:30 AM

Keith, I simply would not call anyone I was on "good and friendly terms" with a pervert. It is not in my nature. I would not be friendly to someone to their face and then demonise them behind their backs to other people.

Al,

if this was a court case - there would be enough witnesses to convict.

Nonsense. It is not a court case. If it was there would be an equal number of witnesses to say that whatever was said was justified. It is all a matter of opinion. End of story.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:57 AM

Dave,
Keith, I simply would not call anyone I was on "good and friendly terms" with a pervert.

Very sneaky and underhand of you to reverse the case.
As you well know, what I put to you was,

"Would you remain on good and friendly terms with someone who was a pervert by your definition?"

Would you?
Of course not, and nor would Ake.

His statements about promiscuity and infection rates are factual.
He does not denigrate anyone for being gay.
Leave him alone.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 08:58 AM

"How in hell did you make that leap."
You said-
"I have read threads here that have practically accused people of child abuse for raising children within a religious tradition."
Re-looking at it, I realise that your statement is open to interpretation - if I have made the wrong one - my apologies - there has been a great deal of discussion on clerical child abuse on this forum.
Nope - I am not "scary" in the slightest - quite shy and docile actually
" You do make some rather sweeping assumptions about how people of faith , or raised in religious homes are brought up."
I seldom, if ever "make assumptions, sweeping or otherwise, on how such people are brought up - my family are virtually all of a Roman Catholic background and I am well aware of the influence on their bringing up.
Had my father not been excommunicated for fighting on the "wrong side" in The Spanish Civil War, I would quite likely have been brought up a Catholic, as were my parents, grandparents, nepewss, neices cousins, uncles, aunts......
We now live in Catholic Ireland and most of our friends and neighbours are practicing Catholics.
In a country where the 96 percent of the primary schools are run by the Church - the next scandal to hit the fan is that while around 30 percent of the marriages here are civil ceremonies, many schools are demanding baptismal certificates before they will accept children as pupils.
My argument has never been with religion, whic is a personal choice, but with the behaviour of the church - on many issues.
"Jim says its not a gang activity"
It isn't, and to be accused of such is as insulting as anything that has been said about you.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 09:05 AM

The sweeping assumptions bit was not aimed at you Jim, but at Steve. You certainly have made the wrong assumption Jim, shall we let it go at that, yes.
Also, I have never accused anyone of so called "gang" activity.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 09:07 AM

One Musket goes on holiday, and all of them fall silent.
Funny that.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 09:25 AM

Very sneaky and underhand of you to reverse the case.
As you well know, what I put to you was,

"Would you remain on good and friendly terms with someone who was a pervert by your definition?"

Nothing sneaky or underhand at all. The situation would never arise. I simply would never knowingly be on friendly or good terms with someone I knew to be a pervert. I have no idea whether ake calls his gay 'friends' perverts to their face. If he does and they are still on good and friendly terms with him. they are far more tolerant that many on here.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 09:57 AM

"Also, I have never accused anyone of so called "gang" activity."
No you haven't - my comment was aimed at Al.
"One Musket goes on holiday, and all of them fall silent."
For somebody who has actually been warned by a forum fairy for posting with a deliberately faked identity to feign support for your otherwise unsupported argument, you are milking this one somewhat dry - funny that.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 10:23 AM

This gang thing. Or should I call it a team thing or a you-people thing. I have never met any of the gang. The only person I've privately communicated with in the gang is Dave, only then in matters unrelated to anything discussed here (we happen to come from the same part of the world, that's all). So just do yourselves a favour, conspiracy theorists. Channel your energies elsewhere and drop the neurotics.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 10:38 AM

I should like my accuser to apprise me of the sweeping assumptions I'm supposed to have made. My post was full of caveats along the lines of as-long-as. Like Jim, I know exactly how Catholics were often raised, possibly, probably, still are. I know how Muslims are often raised (I taught in Walthamstow for six years in in a school that was 40% Muslim). I know that there are people of both faiths who teach their children to be open-minded and ultimately, to be free if they so choose. My post made it clear that that's what I think. It is perfectly possible to be both a person of faith and fair-minded, despite the delusion. I also know that there are many of both faiths who tell their children that to demur is to risk social exclusion, ostracism, death or certain hell fire. Just because you disagree with me doesn't entitle you to hurl offensive remarks around about sweeping assumptions. Not that I'm capable of being offended anyway. Or enraged, for the record.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 10:52 AM

I simply would never knowingly be on friendly or good terms with someone I knew to be a pervert.

Of course you would not.
Nor would anyone including Ake, and Ake is on good and friendly terms with folk he knows to be gay.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 11:03 AM

It is not an offensive remark. It is a critical evaluation of your posts on this subject , how I raise and educate my children is frankly none of your concern and it is presumptuous of you to think it is . I know you can"t be offended, it is glaringly obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 15 - 11:27 AM

i take it all the abuse gang agrees on that point. there isn't a gang. the point is,,,you act as a gang. thats what it feels like. and its not nice.

what is it Paul Simon says....a loose affiliation, maybe.

i bet Ake feels like he's been set upon by a gang.