BS: David Cameron is execrable

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Stanron
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 07:02 AM

Gentle smile towards the benefits of thread drift.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 07:08 AM

i knew. i was there. you weren't. you can't take my word for it. that's okay. it doesn't fit in with your manifesto - wear a fucking paper bag over your head and let the politburo tell you whats happening for all I care!
i suppose me and ake just have to soak up the abuse you dish out. i see no hysterical clatrap from him or me.

i see a lot of two legs good, four legs bad left wing shit from your direction.

no one is allowed to have an experience or express an idea that doesn't fit in with your doctrinaire bollocks.
of course, having led a full an interesting life as a gigging musician. i have been in Polish clubs. that has fuck all to do with my experience on the streets of Boston. all of which happened.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 07:14 AM

Finally at the beer festival we sampled the Cwtch from Tiny Rebel Brewery. Cwtch won Champion Beer of Britain 2015 a decent enough brew but quite honestly it wasn't the best beer we sampled all afternoon and as you can see we sampled quite a few.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 07:16 AM

"Do we have to suffer these people on EVERY thread?"

Who's this "we"? You're going to have to put up with it, old chap. We have to put up with far worse nonsense from you, after all. Viva thread drift! I'm with Stanron!

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 07:55 AM

I think Stanron was being ironic Steve.

Correct me if I am wrong Stanron, but was your meaning not that drifting off topic could be useful in avoiding a crushing defeat in debate?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 08:06 AM

oh come..thread drift is good.

all of this may be true Jim.

ake seems to have broken bread with the man. i'd go with his instincts on the matter , rather than some writer who is clearly talking tripe.

Robespierre ad Danton for godsake...neither Henderson or MacDiarmid used to cut peoples heads off!

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 08:16 AM

"neither Henderson or MacDiarmid used to cut peoples heads off"

That you know of!!

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 08:18 AM

'
"neither Henderson or MacDiarmid used to cut peoples heads off"

That you know of!!'

admittedly true...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 08:27 AM

Steve, I have no objection to you or anyone else talking "nonsense", as long as it is applicable to the thread. For example, stating that Hamish Henderson was a "card carrying Communist" may be incorrect, (nonsense in your parlance), but it does have a tenuous connection to the thread.

Discussing beer here, when another specially opened thread is available for the purpose is just rank bad manners(yobbish behaviour).

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 08:36 AM

I am reminded of an old song by Paul Sherratt of Manchester called, I think, "The Camra Crawl" part of which went:

Twenty pints of Holts
Twenty pints of Holts
you've just been sick on the floor
you shouldn't eat curry I've told you before
if you're in a hurry that ways the door
twenty pints of Holts

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 08:38 AM

I'd rather not take lectures on thread drift from a fellow who, on innumerable occasions, has waded in with his anti-gay hobby horse on threads of any topic at all whenever he sees half a chance to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 08:43 AM

Not only that, but you are squabbling about Hamish Henderson's political affiliations in a thread that started off about how horrible David Cameron is supposed to be. Cast out the plank, old boy. Or just go with the flow and stop moaning.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 08:52 AM

One of the worst pints I ever had was a pint of Holts in Radcliffe (the pub name escapes me now). The pint had what appeared to be floes of cheesy scum floating on top and was as flat as a witch's tit. I was young and too diffident to send it back. I've had decent pints of Holts (though never what I'd call stunning) since then, so I blame the pub. But the prize for worst booze ever goes to a terrible pint of rough cider served up.at the Gypsy's Tent in Dudley some time in 1973. I wasn't right for days (thought the six pints of Holden's Golden consumed that same evening probably didn't help).

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 09:02 AM

Well as this yobbish behaviour is OBVIOUSLY a tactic, perhaps admin could step in once again, to redirect rogue posts to their proper home?
Wherever that may be...   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 09:09 AM

Every post in this thread that isn't purely about whether Cameron is execrable or not is rogue post. Which is nearly all of yours, for starters. Those poor mods... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 09:10 AM

"Robespierre ad Danton for godsake."
Two shade of revolutionary philosophy, and not a bad comparison, as it happens.
Don't know about breaking bread with him, but I tried drinking with him once, (with my friend Tom Munnelly at a folk song conference), and couldn't keep up with either of them, so I retired thoroughly defeated.
By the way - one of the early picture postcards of The Padstow May procession features Hamish in the middle of the crowd - not a lot of peaple know that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 10:06 AM

to have revolutionary thoughts and go off and write a poem about it is somewhat different from, having a revolutionary thought and then guillotining a few hundred people about it.

a significant difference , in my opinion.

you wouldn't like to be compared to Robespierre, would you.

I've always thought of you as more of a Scarlet Pimpernel, Jim. Saving the aristo MacColl from the hands of the mob at the gates of the folk club.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 10:11 AM

:0)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 10:50 AM

"different from, having a revolutionary thought and then guillotining a few hundred people about it."
I think you'll find that neither Robespierre not Danton didn't actually guillotine anybody - others did that- ironically, both of them ended up going for premature haircuts!
It wasn't a comparison in action, rather - theoretical approach.
They were the theorists of the French Revolution.
Why are you belabouring this Al? - unless you think it isn't a good analogy, in which case, take it up with Timothy Neat.
Your MacColl reference is as worthy of comment as most of them are!"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Stanron
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 10:59 AM

I've heard it said that Holts is a hard pint to like. All the hoppiness you could want to taste but non of the aroma. If I had the choice I would prefer Hydes. Both family run Manchester brews and both still at pleasant prices. Who'd live in London?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 11:12 AM

Holts are now doing some quite exceptional bottled beers that used to sell well in my local, which was a Holts Pub! (Red Lion, Irlams o'th' Height) I believe you can get them all over the country and they do travel pretty well.

Holts bottled beers

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 11:20 AM

My apologies Stanron, I stand corrected :0)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 12:31 PM

"I've heard it said that Holts"
Seem to remember it was Holts who made and bottled their own gin in Mosside - revolting stuff!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 12:49 PM

Holts brewery is in Newton Heath. Hydes was nearer to Miss Side. But they did not necessarily make gin at the brewery of course. Their own label spirits are all pretty ropey.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Stanron
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 01:37 PM

I used to live quite near the Hydes brewery. A smallish brick built and traditional looking place. Just a few hundred yards down the road is what looks like a giant oil refinery which brews some appalling gloop like lager. Can't remember the name.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 03:22 PM

McEwans Royal Brewery - They brewed Harp Lager and a couple of others if I remember rightly. Your memory, like mine, has probably blanked out the names as being undrinkable :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 03:32 PM

I think that Harp "Brewery" made Guinness there at one time in the 60's & 70's

Ugghhhh

My local at the time was the "Top House" (or Railway as it was then) The landlord at the time swore he got his Guinness from Dublin. It was certainly the best pint of Guinness in Manchester at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 03:37 PM

Was that the top house at Patricroft? Queens arms if I remember rightly. Best pint of Boddies for miles and overlooking the Patricroft shunting yards. Hours of fun for beer and train enthusiasts alike :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 03:49 PM

Ahhh - Sorry. Just saw you said the Railway. Top of Church Street?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:00 PM

The "Top House" Patricroft at one time had a license to open at 6 in the morning to cater for the night shift at the adjoining Royal Ordnance Factory. I have to admit there was the odd occasion when we carried through an all night party there.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:19 PM

Be there a bigger bore than the beer bore?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 04:28 PM

No.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:06 PM

The professor gets ever funnier. The last comment was from the same professor who started a whole thread about beer anecdotes. Wonderful, truly wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:49 PM

Yeah, there is a bigger bore. The pro-beer bore is massively outdone in the boredom stakes than the anti-queer bore.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 05:52 PM

outdone by

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 11:25 PM

Thus Robespierre came to power on the back of popular street violence.[18] Led by Robespierre, the National Convention, in an attempt to make their stance known to the world over, released a statement of French Foreign policy. The first point addressed stated,
"The National Convention declares, in the name of the French people, that it firmly intends to be terrible towards its enemies, generous towards its allies, and just towards its peoples."

The number of death sentences in Paris was 2,639, while the total number during the Terror in the whole of France (including Paris) was 16,594. The Jacobins were meticulous in maintaining a legal structure for the Terror so clear records exist for official death sentences. However, many more people were murdered without formal sentences proposed in a court of law.[18]
The Revolutionary Tribunal summarily condemned thousands of people to death by the guillotine, while mobs beat other victims to death. Sometimes people died for their political opinions or actions, but many for little reason beyond mere suspicion, or because some others had a stake in getting rid of them.[citation needed]
Among people who were condemned by the revolutionary tribunals, about 8% were aristocrats, 6% clergy, 14% middle class, and 72% were workers or peasants accused of hoarding, evading the draft, desertion, or rebellion.

Poets and artists are decent people. Only a fool would compare this piece of shit with Hamish Henderson.   philosopher..my arse!

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 11:40 PM

I suppose in some ways Ghandi was the Josef Goebels to Albert Schweitzer's Adolf Hitler.

never mind - get on with abusing everyone:
murderer, communist, racist.....

I suppose you do realise you are talking about human beings like yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 03:40 AM

"Thus Robespierre came to power on the back of popular street violence"
No- he came to power on the 'back' of the appalling conditions suffered by the French people - he, like 'street violence' was the outcome of that poverty.
Pre-revolutionary Conditions in France
Like the Russian Revolution, people tend to ignore the causes of the events.
"Ghandi was the Josef Goebels to Albert Schweitzer's Adolf Hitler."
No again, they were opposites to each other Robespierre and Henderson were two sides of the same coin rolling in the same direction.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 03:54 AM

Why include communist in the same list as murderer and racist? Or David Cameron for that matter?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 04:22 AM

Another piece of information for the uninitiated, Hamish Henderson was not a revolutionary either.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 04:48 AM

ake seems to have broken bread with the man. i'd go with his instincts on the matter , rather than some writer who is clearly talking tripe.

Do try to keep up, Al. The only 'writer' mentioned is the one that is supposed to be supporting ake's case that Henderson was not particularly left wing. If he was not a communist then the ones talking tripe are Dick Gaughan, everyone else that knew him and Henderson himself, who all describe him as a communist. There is no need to be a member of a party to support their politics. Communist is not a term of abuse but a description of political leanings.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 05:09 AM

"Hamish Henderson was not a revolutionary either."
He held revolutionary ideas - ie - he believed society (not just Governments) needed changing.
Why do you indulge in these hit-'n-run tactics Ake?
Yo get your skittles knocked over - you leave them lying down and just put up another one.
Your bowling alley is getting very cluttered!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 05:34 AM

For the record --

"Hamish Scott Henderson, (11 November 1919 – 9 March 2002; Scottish Gaelic: Seamas MacEanraig (Seamas Mòr)) was a Scottish poet, songwriter, communist, soldier and intellectual." Wikipedia

I knew him slightly. I admired his achievements, but was not alone in finding him an exceptionally contentious person, touchy to a fault & constantly picking quarrels over imagined and unintentional slights. I particularly remember his shouting for an uninterrupted 15 minutes at Peter Bellamy, who had said to him of a resentful and pugnacious remark he had made backstage about having been deliberately neglected by the organisers of the Cambridge Festival in the early 1970s, "Isn't that a bit uncharitable, Hamish?" Mr Henderson stopped us on the way out at the end of the evening [Pete & Anthea were staying over as usual with Valerie & me in Cambridge], said to Pete, "Could I just have a quick word? - What do you mean by calling me uncharitable!", and launched into that denunciatory diatribe which Anthea & I listened to in astounded puzzlement. One of those experiences which live with me from that hour to this.

≈M≈

Sorry for this drift from topic of Mr Cameron, but it's the way the thread seems to have gone

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 05:35 AM

David Cameron believes society needs changing.
i could see you two joining him on the barricades

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 05:51 AM

??? :-S

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 06:02 AM

"David Cameron believes society needs changing. "
No he doesn't - he believes society should stay the same and fights any changes that threaten the status quo - don't they all
To quote the Duke Lamdedusa at the time of the Garibaldi uprisings"Things must change if they are going to remain the same"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 06:51 AM

'David Cameron sets out UK-wide changes 'to build better future'

BBC News Services

Theres something very similar in the way you two abuse people to official Conservative policy on immigrants, single mothers, disabled and other non people.

village idiots, speakers of claptrap, racist, homophobes...ring any bells?

you two should join up with the tories...they could use a talent for abuse such as yours.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 06:58 AM

Says the man who uses the term communist in the same list as murderer and racist? Tell you what, Al, look back through your thread and check who was the first person to abuse anyone. (Clue: You will not have to go much further than the title and first post) Let he who is without sin cast the first stone seems a good rule to apply in this instance.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 07:07 AM

'David Cameron sets out UK-wide changes 'to build better future'
Don't they all say that - from Hitler onward?
"racist, homophobes"
Don't know who you're referring to Al, but I've only ever referred to anybody as a racist or homophobe in response to people who have made racist or homophobic comments - plenty of examples on this forum.
Somethings appears to have seriously rattled your cage on this one.
Jim Carroll

A translation of Henderson's Freedom Come-All-Ye
Rough's the wind in the clear day's dawning
Blows the clouds head-oer-heel across the bay
But there's more than a rough wind blowing
Through the Great Glen of the world today
It's a thought that would make our vermin
All those rogues who strut and swagger without care
Take the road and seek other lodgings
With their vile schemes to sport and play

No more will our fine lads be commanded
to march to war at a braggarts call
Nor wee weans from pitheads and clachans
Mourn the ships sailing down the Broomielaw
Broken families in lands we've vanquished
Will curse "Scotland the Brave", nae mair, nae mair
Black and white to one another married
Will make the slums of their masters bare

So come all ye at home with freedom
Never heed those prophets of doom
In your house all the bairns of Adam
Will find bread, drink and painted rooms
When Maclean meets with friends in Springburn
All the rose and cherry trees will turn to bloom
And the black lad from Nyanga
Will break the powers of his masters doon.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 07:49 AM

We could settle on "socialist".