BS: David Cameron is execrable

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 09:07 AM

"We could settle on "socialist"."
No problem with that, though the term has been abused enough for sol long to become meaningless.
I think I've read the claim recently that, "we're all socialists now" and the also that "employers who treat their workers decently and pay them a decent wage are practicing socialism" - it really is more complicated than that.
It really isn't that important anyway; Henderson was what he wrote and did - his allegiance to Scottish Marxist, John McLean in, 'Freedom Come-All Ye, puts him where he was..
I go along with Mike's description of him to a degree - he was somewhat eccentric and unpredictable.
I can't recall what subject he was asked to speak on at MacColl's 70th symposium, but he launched into a glorious talk on erotic and bawdy songs and declared that "love was what made us all human beings" which had the audience on edge (so to speak) - nothing to do with the advertised topic.
Like all great people, he was very much his own person.
MacColl used to tell the story of a concert he sang at in Edinburgh in the fifties - one of the songs was the Scots mouth Music piece 'Tail Toddle'
When he came off stage, he found a be-kilted Hamish being questioned by a diminutive American lady with a notebook.
"Can you explain 'what Tail Toddle' means, Mr Henderson".
Towering over the her, he said ponderously, "Weel madam, a tail is a woman's pudenda, and toddlin' is the movement, in and out, in and out" - demonstrating the motion vigourously with his hips, kilt swaying as he spoke.
The lady rapidly disappeared with her notebook and wasn't seen again.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 09:09 AM

Someone who posts on here has been a regular at Sandy Bells for a long time. I guess they may know HH better. Is it Jack Campin?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 12:30 PM

no matter what the subject - lollypops, steam engines . kangaroos
if Ake says something - we get this shit from someone -you're homophobic, so your viewis of no account. i wouldn't even know his views on the subject, if i hadn't heard all this tripe

Joe Offer was in pieces after some of the crap you came out with about his deeply held religious beliefs.

i get called racist - and a cast of supporting players jump in to toady round you.

Small wonder you admire a bullying git like Robespierre.

you two don't know how to behave.

abusing David Cameron doesn't count. he has an entire newspaper industry slagging people off on his behalf.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 01:00 PM

Well, as long as we know. It now seems to be Big Al who decides who it is OK to abuse or not.

BTW - I know nothing about Robespierre and the French Revolution so I have no idea WTF you are on about with that. I do know that anyone complaining of abuse on a thread they started to abuse someone else deserves to be called hypocritical. Or at least to be laughed at. Does the 'Big' bit in your handle lean heavily on a certain George Orwell character by any chance? :-)

While talking of how to behave, who brought up the subject of racism I wonder...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 01:07 PM

"and a cast of supporting players jump in to toady round you."
Do not implicate me in what others have to say - if I thought you were a racist, I would have no hesitation in saying so.
Nobody "toady's" around anybody - people agree with each other on both sides of the spectrum, but you have no grounds for saying they do so to "toady" around anybody
H hold somewhat unpopular and controversial views about many things and I have no hesitation in arguing the toss on them - often to the point of overstatement when I consider them important enough.
I have never attacked anybody's religious beliefs - never.
I have criticised the behaviour of the church - and still do.
Grow up Al - you really aren't doing yourself any good behaving the way you are.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 01:27 PM

This is like the Mad Hatters Tea party, or perhaps a childish playground squabble, any minute some idiot will say I am going to get my big brother, and the other one will say my brothers bigger than your brother , nya nya nya.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 01:44 PM

I think you are wrong Good Soldier.....Al is simply reacting to what is left of the pack of hyenas who have spent the last few years attacking anything posted by myself or Keith.
They also try to derail any serious discussion on subjects which they deem unsuitable for discussion, by posting off topic shit
Al made the "mistake" of reporting an incident he witnessed involving some Eastern European criminals.....he was immediately jumped on by a troll, one of the followers of Team Musket who called him a "racist" simply for telling the truth

Al and I have disagreed a few times over the years, but he is a straight decent guy and does not like being called a "racist" by trolls who are not fit to lick his boots.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 01:45 PM

Drift, in interests of accuracy: -- If you read Alice carefully, you will find that it was the March Hare's tea party, not the Hatter's. The chapter is just called 'A Mad Tea Party'; it is actually held in the March Hare's garden, where Alice had decided to go because she had seen hatters before, but not March hares, and as it was May she hoped the Hare wouldn't be as mad as he had been in March. People probably make this mistake as it was the Hatter who had the most to say.


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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 02:08 PM

This thread was created with the sole purpose of abusing someone. It has succeeded but whether that success was as intended is to be seen.

As to the nonsense above from ake, all I can say is that you will notice that he never backs up any of his slurs with examples but is very quick to complain when anyone makes unsubstantiated accusations against him. Oh, and complaining of being off topic while the majority of his posts have nothing whatsoever to do with the subject of the thread. Tells us everything we need to know really.

Nice to see them getting so worked up while the rest of us enjoy a few beers and the odd comment about them though. Bit of light entertainment from the resident comedy team can be fun at times but they do tend to repeat the same jokes.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 02:58 PM

well, this is some mad tea party.mad and tedious and childish. my comments were not aimed at Al , but at the other two factions.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 04:04 PM

Simple solution if you find it tedious and childish, Dick. Surprised you have not thought of it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 04:58 PM

Dave,I am trying to be polite.
your behaviour on this thread along with others, is childish and resembles the worst aspects of the school playground.
I have met both you and Keith in real life, and enjoyed the company of both of you, we all enjoy the same sort of music, this squabbling is pointless, neither of you are going to change the others opinions , you are wasting your time, soon we will all be dead, make the most of life.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 05:09 PM

Has it occurred to you that some people may actualy enjoy what you deem wasting time, Dick? I am sure you are well qualified in determining what is good and bad in the folk music arena but can you say the same of your skills in psychology? I suspect not but am always willing to be proved wrong. I am not interested in changing opinions either, just in putting the record straight. Thanks for the advice but if it is all the same to you, I chose not to take it.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 05:52 PM

people actually enjoy taking part in discussions that go nowhere? they enjoy slagging each other off? good grief.
I will leave you to it, and go and play music which is possibly why I am a much better concertina player than you.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 05:54 PM

"Has it occurred to you that some people may actualy enjoy what you deem wasting time, Dick?"........That, I think, is the problem Good Soldier!

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 06:14 PM

look are we EVER going to talk about this bloody villain, Cameron?

you notice the ominous silence from Tory press. he has broken a major election promise on immigration. if a labour pm had done that, they'd be tearing the fucker to pieces.

this is a promise he made, and got elected on the strength of.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 02:50 AM

which is possibly why I am a much better concertina player than you

Nah, the reason for that is that I don't want to be a concertina player. I would rather get very well paid in a job I enjoy and then pay for people like yourself to entertain me :-)

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 04:27 AM

you notice the ominous silence from Tory press. he has broken a major election promise on immigration.

That pledge was made in the 2010 campaign, which did not achieve a Tory majority.
The Telegraph and the Mail have both excoriated them for their failure on it.
It is the left wing press that has remained comparatively silent about it.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 05:10 AM

The pledge was renewed by Theresa May, Keith, in the last parliament. We all know she lied about it in trying to back down from it, but the target was the same as Cameron's 2010 pledge. Let's tell it like it is for once, shall we, Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 06:13 AM

There is no "left wing" press any more.
There's an openly Tory-supportive press - The Telegraph - The Time.
There's the Tory supportive gutter press, The Mail, and The Sun.
There's the rest o the tabloids, which hardly deal in news at all, but tend to go along with the right.
And there are a couple of well written and researched and, on the whole middle-of-the-road, fair minded newspapers, The Guardian and The Independent.
Not sure whether The Morning Star Still publishes, but if it does, its readership is insignificantly small.
Who is this "left wing press"?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 08:01 AM

Perhaps some of the weeklies, Jim? New Statesman, Tribune, &c. But agree that the left is not much represented in the dailies. The Sun was supposed originally to have been a successor to the old Daily Herald; but, blimey, I mean...!

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Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 08:46 AM

I don't know because I no longer read newspapers, apart from the odd article of interest online, but is the Daily Mirror still left of centre?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 08:51 AM

I was referring to the dailies Mike, and I think Keith was.
I'd forgotten about the Sun/Herald link - blimey indeed!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 09:05 AM

Steve,
The pledge was renewed by Theresa May, Keith, in the last parliament.

Wrong Steve.
Guardian November 2014.
"Theresa May has issued the clearest declaration by the government yet that it will fail to deliver David Cameron's "no ifs, no buts" pledge to reduce net migration to the tens of thousands by the general election next year."

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 09:09 AM

Jim,
Not sure whether The Morning Star Still publishes, but if it does, its readership is insignificantly small.

Why is that Jim, if not because no-one wants to read far left agitprop?
Dave, The Mirror supports the Labour Party in its editorial policy.
I think we all know that the Guardian is a left leaning publication.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 11:28 AM

the point is neither left wing nor right. it was just plain villainy!

the real loser in Cameron's lies was UKIP. The statements were made to cut the ground from under their feet. the points they made about Europe - which were pertinent never got discussed. thus shitting on the right wing

the pledges were totally cynically made also to top up our pool of minimum wage workforce. thus shitting on the left wing.

I don't regard this thread as blind abuse. David Cameron is a big sod, who shits on everybody, except his rich banker mates!

Josh White said it so much sweeter than I can

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HfFTFqDvSg

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 12:37 PM

The Morning Star still publishes, I even bought one recently in W H Smith, OR AKA W H Smug

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 01:52 PM

I am pretty sure that everyone has their redeeming points. Well, maybe apart from Irritable Duncan Syndrome and one or two others. Even Mr Cameron. It is the policies of the present administration that really stink. Blame Cameron for that if you like but even without him they wold have pressed ahead.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 07:49 PM

"Why is that Jim, if not because no-one wants to read far left agitprop?"
Yo talk about what no-one wants!
The majority of people are not interested in politics of any sort - they don't vote, and we are led by a minority of those who do.
Parliamentary democracy has been exposed as the sham it always was.
Politics has become a career and politicians are regarded with mistrust and contempt.
That appears to be what people want.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 08:05 PM

i do feel that for some reason the politicians of ability and integrity never seem to attain highest office , or at any rate get treated very badly. Micheal Hesseltine and John MacGregor being good cases in point in the Maggie era. she just wanted yes men around her.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 08:05 PM

i do feel that for some reason the politicians of ability and integrity never seem to attain highest office , or at any rate get treated very badly. Micheal Hesseltine and John MacGregor being good cases in point in the Maggie era. she just wanted yes men around her.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 08:59 PM

Hell of an echo in here! 😜😎

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Sep 15 - 03:55 PM

Were any conclusions reached?

Was anyone's mind changed?

Did the thread serve its intended purpose?

Or did it just create bad feeling, animosity and high blood pressure for some and a source of amusement for others?

Just asking...

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 01:34 AM

well it revealed to me David is really quite popular.

i think he's turd, but that viewpoint doesn't have much popular support.

i think , you and me, Dave will never get on.

i used to wonder why most of the well known folksingers in England give mudcat a wide berth. it suddenly clicked the other day.

hundreds of people on the English folkscene must know me ......millions know my hit record in Germany.
now its on the internet that i'm a racist. i suppose they see the temperature of the water and think...who needs that?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 03:24 AM

Glad it was of some use then, Al. There is nothing on the internet that says you are a racist though apart from you repeating it. No-one has access to the thread in question because it has been deleted so what is there left? Apart from your wounded pride and you bringing it up at every opportunity? Both you and I know what happened but our recollections are at odds. Neither of us can provide any evidence of what actually happened so it is mere hearsay. Think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 06:28 AM

seeing as it was my reputation that was sullied, i probably have thought about it a damn sight more than your gang of cronies on mudcat.

and felt the insult.

i've done maybe eight bookings in the last three weeks under my own name - Big Al Whittle. people do internet searches on me. people i don't know who are thinking of booking me. there is a danger they will come across your slurs.

when you abuse Ake - call him the village idiot, a homophobe, god knows what else..

well ake's not doing gigs as far as i know, but its not very nice.

i obviously can't make you see that saying foul hurtful things is wrong. but it can damage people. and it sure as hell damages mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 07:03 AM

1. I have no 'gang of cronies'
2. There is no danger that anyone will come across 'my slurs' because there are none. Do a google search if you don't believe me.
3. The village idiot tag is in answer to his constantly calling me a troll and a liar. I see nothing from you about that.
4. He says that homosexuals are perverted, licentious and should not be allowed to marry. What is that but homophobia and what does it say of you in supporting him?

Need I go on?

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 08:44 AM

"your gang of cronies"
Same as Dave said.
Cronyism is for politicians and you do no good to accuse people of being what they are not.
Don't know about 'village idiot' but Ake is well known for taking a regular pop at gays, from'Gay Plague', up - just because everybody says it doesn't mean it isn't true!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 10:09 AM

You are wrong Jim, Dave the T and a couple more gleefully joined Team Musket in personal abuse and Al was labelled a racist for mentioning an incident he had witnessed.....he never at any time expressed fear or dislike of Eastern Europeans in general. Quite the contrary, he has always been open minded on any subject, we have often disagreed but without rancour. They are a bunch of cronies, or would like to be!    I credit you with a little more sense than to get involved with TM, but sometimes you print without thinking.
I do not "take a pop" at homosexuals. I oppose homosexual "marriage" as millions of others do and I try to give my reasons and sources for doing so....that is not "taking a pop" homosexuals can do what they like within their own group but to call it marriage and legislate for it is a re-definition.
I have never mentioned "gay plague", you made that up.
I have quoted official health figures which indicate an epidemic of sexually transmitted disease within the MSM group.
You may not think it is an epidemic, but the health agencies certainly do.    Latest figure for 2013 81% of all new hiv infections in the US amongst MSM.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 11:00 AM

"Dave the T and a couple more gleefully joined Team Musket in personal abuse"
Many people have been guilty of personal abuse of one sort or another - one of the problems is that they only seem to recognise it when they are the target.
Some people's behaviour has become intolerable and obsessive, which has, I have little doubt, given rise to personal abuse.
It really isn't a chicken and egg situation - discussion, however heated, seldom starts abusively, so if everybody, looked to their own behaviour instead of eternally complaining others' it might help.
Gleefully reveling in sexually transmitted diseases only confirms your position - Mrs Whitehouse would have been proud of you.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 11:15 AM

ake - Three simple questions

1. Do you believe homosexuals are perverts?
2. Do you believe homosexuals are more promiscuous that others?
3. Do you believe that homosexuals should be afforded the same rights as others?

I will not hold my breath waiting for a straight answer.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 11:23 AM

Well, if that's your idea of 'gleeful revelling', Jim, then I feel bound to say that I don't think you'd recognise a gleeful revel if it crep' up behind you and bit you on the bum. Why, if really pushed even a miserable old sod like me could revel a bit more gleefully than just reproducing a few undisputed statistics*, which is all Ake has been doing. But as they are statistics that unhappily do not confirm the prejudices of your old Mind·made·up·no·facts·please Brigade, you somehow purport to see them as gleeful revelling, and fall back on the weary old copout of the Shoot·The·Messenger routine.!

Best
≈M≈

≤small>*none of you lot over there has made any coherent attempt to dispute them anyhow that anyone can see

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 11:56 AM

2. Do you believe homosexuals are more promiscuous that others?

Having multiple concurrent partners is the accepted reason for the very high rates of all STIs among MSM.
There is no prejudice in stating that.
You will find it referred to in the gay media and web sites.
I remember linking to an NAT page about exactly that.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 12:09 PM

"Both the number and very probably the
concurrency of sexual partners have a
significant impact on HIV transmission
amongst MSM in the UK.
Reducing the number and
concurrency of sexual partnerships
amongst MSM is an appropriate
objective, both ethically and
epidemiologically, for HIV prevention
frameworks in the UK nations. "
http://www.nat.org.uk/media/Files/Publications/July-2010-Parternship-Patterns-and-HIV-Prevention.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 12:33 PM

So, Keith, Do you believe homosexuals are more promiscuous that others? And that was only one of three questions.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 01:01 PM

I know that MSM folk are, because studies have confirmed it is a fact and I have seen it acknowledged on gay sites.
It is the reason that they are at such high risk.

From my linked page,

"Recent results from the Gay Men's
Sex Survey (GMSS) conducted
by Sigma Research suggests the
correlation between high numbers of
sexual partners and infection with STIs
including HIV – 'Numbers of sexual
partners was strongly associated to
HIV testing history, HIV diagnosis
and diagnosis of other STIs'. 3
For
example, 20.9% of those with 30 more
partners in the last year were HIV
positive (i.e had received a positive
diagnosis) compared with 6.6% of those
with between two and four partners in
the last year. Gonorrhoea was reported
in the last year for 16.1% of HIV positive
men with 30 or more partners and 6.6%
of men not tested positive with 30 or
more partners, compared with 4.9%
and 1.2% respectively for those with ..."

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 01:19 PM

"Well, if that's your idea of 'gleeful revelling', J"
What is it then Mike - a warning about being gay, a warning to steer clear of gays - there's very little sign of it being sympathy.
Along with the other pronouncements about homosexuality being unnatural and same sex marriage being a threat to the traditional family and giving unfair rights to gays over heterosexuals - it's gleeful revelling of the type indulged in by proselytizing evangelicals.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 02:35 PM

So, Keith, Do you believe homosexuals are more promiscuous that others?

No.
Gay women are actually less promiscuous that straight women.
Gay men however, are more promiscuous than straight men.
Quite a lot more.

" Homosexual men are famously promiscuous, a fact that became well-known with onset of AIDs, when studies of gay men who were HIV positive revealed average numbers of partners in the hundreds (and even though gay men who were HIV negative had much lower numbers, the average for them was still dramatically higher than the average numbers for heterosexual men). Lesbians might have been expected to be more promiscuous than heterosexual women, since they had no pregnancy to fear, and on the classic theories, would have been inclined to play out a "male sex role." But research by Michael Bailey and David Schmitt found that lesbians are inclined toward even less promiscuous lives than heterosexual women."

Musket may wish to report the author to the police.
All his details can be found by clicking on his name here,
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sex-murder-and-the-meaning-life/201006/homosexuality-queer-problem

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Raggytash
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 02:53 PM

I would think the title of the article would tell you all you needed to know about the author and his viewpoint.

Subject: RE: BS: David Cameron is execrable
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Sep 15 - 03:21 PM

you two totally miss the point

we weren't talking about race when i got called a racist.

this thread isn't about gay relationships - but here's Ake being called a homophobe.

he holds the views he holds - which aren't unusual views for men of his age , who grew up in an illiberal era when homosexuality was illegal. an era when children were encouraged to look upon being gay with deep revulsion. you're asking him to re-program a brain - which given the strictures of the Scottish church would be next to impossible.

his views get dragged in an abusive manner into virtually every discussion on the forum.

you're not doing the same to me without a struggle.