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BS: Post Brexit life in the UK

DMcG 21 Jan 18 - 11:25 AM
DMcG 21 Jan 18 - 11:03 AM
Iains 21 Jan 18 - 10:52 AM
Iains 21 Jan 18 - 10:50 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Jan 18 - 10:18 AM
DMcG 21 Jan 18 - 10:08 AM
DMcG 21 Jan 18 - 10:06 AM
Raggytash 21 Jan 18 - 09:54 AM
Iains 21 Jan 18 - 09:28 AM
Iains 21 Jan 18 - 07:10 AM
Iains 21 Jan 18 - 06:56 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Jan 18 - 06:53 AM
Raggytash 21 Jan 18 - 06:41 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Jan 18 - 06:22 AM
DMcG 21 Jan 18 - 06:21 AM
DMcG 21 Jan 18 - 06:16 AM
Iains 21 Jan 18 - 06:04 AM
Iains 21 Jan 18 - 05:54 AM
Backwoodsman 21 Jan 18 - 05:28 AM
Iains 21 Jan 18 - 04:34 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 07:30 PM
peteaberdeen 20 Jan 18 - 06:08 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 05:29 PM
Iains 20 Jan 18 - 05:10 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 04:39 PM
Iains 20 Jan 18 - 03:54 PM
Jim Carroll 20 Jan 18 - 02:42 PM
Iains 20 Jan 18 - 01:47 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 12:46 PM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Jan 18 - 12:14 PM
Iains 20 Jan 18 - 11:46 AM
Raggytash 20 Jan 18 - 10:10 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 09:38 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Jan 18 - 09:25 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 08:42 AM
Iains 20 Jan 18 - 05:56 AM
Keith A of Hertford 20 Jan 18 - 05:07 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 05:07 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jan 18 - 04:58 AM
Iains 20 Jan 18 - 04:23 AM
DMcG 20 Jan 18 - 03:48 AM
Steve Shaw 19 Jan 18 - 06:26 PM
DMcG 19 Jan 18 - 06:26 PM
Greg F. 19 Jan 18 - 06:17 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Jan 18 - 05:36 PM
DMcG 19 Jan 18 - 05:27 PM
Raggytash 19 Jan 18 - 05:22 PM
Steve Shaw 19 Jan 18 - 05:21 PM
bobad 19 Jan 18 - 05:01 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 11:25 AM

My post, by the way, also is relevant to With so many intangibles being thrown into the air having heated arguments is rather pointless. The entire proposition is in a state of flux and quite honestly having heated arguments over hypothetical scenarios is a waste of time: these are not things that may or may not happen at some time in the future depending on how the negotiations go. These are votes being taken now (last Tuesday to be precise) that are defining the sort of future we will have if we have a negotiated Brexit. It is an assumption, but I think a plausible one, that we would also lose the guaranteed right if we have 'no deal': certainly that would be the default position as it nstands currently.

So these are risks to our rights being decided now as a result of Brexit. To my mind they are worth talking about. Even at this late stage the rights could be protected if the Lords do so and the Commons then accepts the Lord's amendment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 11:03 AM

The clause of ensuring equivalent rights is purely about UK citizens and haa no relevance for freedom of movement for anyone other than a UK citizen. You can easily read the debate about the clause in Hansard and no-one suggested it did.

You can read the reasons for the government rejecting it, but in essence they boil down to, and I quote "could create needless uncertainty for businesses and individuals"

Much better for the citizens to know they have no guarantee of the right, isn't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 10:52 AM

poor proof reading forgot to cut the double perceived.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 10:50 AM

I periodically have talks with myself about winning the lottery. This does not mean it is going to happen. Business will go where the rewards are greatest, It is as simple as that. Should the EU bring about a uniform taxation system it ia anybodies guess as to where the preferred location WOULD be.
   I would argue the only reason that financial services would relocate from London would be because the EU created a more attractive profit regime. This will need clearly defined nuts and bolts in place before anything will happen.So far all we see is wishful thinking. The EU is also taking a close look at Ireland and it's perceived status as a perceived tax haven. How does the potential closure of that loophole equate with attracting financial services from London. It is total delusion. (I presume this is what we are talking about).

The vote on equal rights had it failed would maintain freedom of movement, refugees and all. The vote was totally in line with the sentiment of the labour heartlands so no conflict occurred between mp's and their electorate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 10:18 AM

It's amazing how the potential hit to our financial services sector has been played down for public consumption when you consider that that sector dwarfs the rest of our economy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 10:08 AM

" they almost all voted" - I mean almost all 650 MPs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 10:06 AM

How MPs trade off responsibilities to their parties and their constituents is a deep and long standing one. A decade or so ago I heard a talk by Edwina Currie on how to be a successful MP. Not once, in the hour or so, did she mention her constituents.

So - a problem, right enough. But nothing to do with Brexit.

On the other point, yes, Labour has some interesting problems in the relationship between its voters and the areas which predominately voted to leave. But unless there is an election before March 2019 that will not affect the Brexit terms, which will set the path whoever is in power. So again, I don't think it is really that relevant to post Brexit life. Much more significant is that, for example, Parliament voted against this clause (and apologies for the length):

====
New clause 14?Maintaining individual rights and protections?


?(1) When making any agreement under subsection (2), the Secretary of State shall take steps to ensure that UK citizens enjoy standards of rights and protections equivalent to those enjoyed by citizens of the EU under EU law.


(2) This section applies to?


(a) any agreement between the United Kingdom and the EU which prepares for, or implements, the UK?s withdrawal from the EU;


(b) any international trade agreement??


(i) between the UK and the EU, or


(ii) between the UK and another signatory which seeks to replicate in full or in part the provisions of an international trade agreement between the EU and the other signatory.


(3) In relation to any agreement under subsection (2), the Secretary of State will maintain the highest standards of transparency.?


This new clause creates a duty for the Government to ensure that individual rights and protections are maintained to a level equivalent to (although not necessarily the same as) those in the EU when making agreements with the EU or international trade agreements.
====

So Parliament voted 'NO' to maintaining equivalent rights for its citizens. And, relating to the first point, there were perhaps 150 MPs in the chamber to listen to the debate, but - I haven't looked up the exact figures - they almost all voted, based on their party's lines. I doubt if many constituents were writing the MPs demanding removal of guaranteed rights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 09:54 AM

I think we should be more concerned about attempts to woo companies in the Financial sector to France than what MAY have happened IF the French were given a referendum vote.

I have already related how the Irish Finance Minister was having talks with companies in the Finance sector.

Yet another potential blow for the UK economy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 09:28 AM

Cannot give the French an EU exit referendum, they might want to leave too!


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5294037/Macron-admits-France-probably-voted-quit-EU.html

It is all getting a bit shaky! Foundations on sand and all that.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 07:10 AM

A general search:" map labour areas 2017" gives a few graphics to show some of the above points.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 06:56 AM

"That may or may not be a fair criticism, but please explain what has it to do with Brexit."

It comes down to the question of: Do Mp's vote according to the whips and their personal preferences or do they follow the wishes of their electorate? As most, if not all MPs are careerists, they sometimes have awkward choices to make as their electorate may deviate dramatically from the official party line. Complex situation because on some issues they are simply their own man.
The link below discusses it. A shame it does not delve deeper.

It is significant that the most depressed areas in the UK voted to leave. These areas would be the historical labour heartlands.
Strange to say I have seen no labour luvvies try to square this particular circle. I further note these labour heartlands coincide with the traditional coal mining areas. Staunch labour here vote stay. Staunch labour supporters on the electoral roll vote leave.
Boys!You have a problem!


http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/mps-voting-personal-or-constituency-preferences/


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 06:53 AM

Staying in the customs union would also resolve the Irish border issue, subject to agreement with the people who are really setting the agenda, the DUP. Doubtful until the point of brinksmanship is reached, which won't be long coming now.

Interesting take on brexit and that referendum from the Guardian's editorial on 5 December:

In 2016, more than 17 million British people voted to leave the European Union. But, as the journalist Tim Shipman's new book, Fall Out, which covers the political turmoil of the 15 months since the referendum, makes clear, only two British people decided that this meant leaving the European single market, the customs union and the jurisdiction of the European court of justice.

Those two people were Theresa May and her former aide Nick Timothy. These fateful national decisions were their personal interpretations of the vote to leave the EU -- and theirs alone. As Mr Shipman explains, these foundational decisions of the UK's withdrawal strategy were not discussed by Mrs May's cabinet, let alone by parliament. Instead they were simply prime ministerial edicts to the 2016 Conservative conference. Later, they were included in the Tory manifesto for the June 2017 election, in which the party lost its overall majority, Mrs May's leadership was humiliated and Mr Timothy lost his job.


So two now-discredited people decided that the referendum meant that we can't be in the single market and customs union. You can bet your life that, had you asked the electorate what that actually meant before the vote, you'd have got an overwhelmingly clueless response. Theresa May, acting without personal mandate, has certainly "taken back control" of massive decisions that neither the people of this country, parliament nor even her own cabinet were party to. Yet we get all this guff about how undemocratic the EU is. I could say "what a joke," except that this is the most unfunny thing I can think of.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 06:41 AM

"However, Momentum issued a clear denial, saying "we will not campaign for the deselection of any MP and will not permit any local Momentum groups to do so. The selection of candidates is entirely a matter for local party members and rightly so".[24]"

From the horses mouth, not a right wing rag.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 06:22 AM

"A teacher and activist? a bit of a contradiction in terms!"

Blair Peach. A good friend of mine. Look him up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 06:21 AM

Latest CBI position

Damn commie organisation...


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 06:16 AM

That may or may not be a fair criticism, but please explain what has it to do with Brexit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 06:04 AM

Going to try to kid me it is all false news?
You know what they say: You can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink.
Got a problem swallowing backwoodsman?


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/07/labour-mps-can-already-be-deselected-will-it-become-easier-do-so


https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/905343/labour-jeremy-corbyn-momentum-deselection


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07/07/momentum-dismisses-labour-mp-deselection-hit-list-tories-trail/


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-labour-momentum-haringey-deselection-general-election-a8088326.html


2017/jul/06/labour-mps-critical-of-corbyn-fear-deselection-after-get-on-board-warning


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 05:54 AM

What a silly fellow you are backw...


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/jeremy-corbyn-allies-plot-to-oust-50-labour-mps-87bkrv7l7


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 05:28 AM

Having seen your links, Teribus, I'll ask again - do you ever read anything but the pro-Brexit, Tory Shitrags?

You need to widen your reading and get an education. And you need, for once in your life, to be honest, cut the thick ex-squaddie horse-shit, and answer the question.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 21 Jan 18 - 04:34 AM

"To deal in facts, an alien concept with Iains"
That's a bit rich coming from you stevie boy! (the man with no links)
A teacher and activist? a bit of a contradiction in terms! Perhaps this explains your endless confusion. You really must have someone explain to you the vital difference between fact and fiction.


As for corbyn:
The man is a menace and momentum a threat to democracy.
The only consolation is that he is getting old.
Below are some links to partially explain the problem.
It is noteworthy that the three articles come from the same source on the same day.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5293373/Purge-Labour-moderates.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5293083/Jeremy-Corbyn-faces-race-row-rally-ticket-prices.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-5293223/DAN-HODGES-Jeremy-let-Great-Purge-begin.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 07:30 PM

To deal in facts, an alien concept with Iains, Jeremy Corbyn has never been a member of tbe Communist Party or any other leftie party. He's a Labour man through and through. When I was a trade union activist in London in the 1970s Jeremy and his ilk were regarded by us hardline lefties as sellout merchants. That's how much of a "commie" he was. Of course, it all looks different to aficionados of the Daily Bumwipe such as Iains, who never allow obstinate reality to get in their way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: peteaberdeen
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 06:08 PM

iain - is the term 'commie corbyn' supposed to be an insult or a cheap, cliched jibe? all this daily m**l inspired hate stuff is not really effective anymore, is it? in any other sensible european country jeremy corbyn would be nothing out of the ordinary, whereas our current government are exceptional in their self-harming. just an incompetent, unprincipled, feckless laughing stock. at least commies have a plan and some idealism


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 05:29 PM

You didn't study English either, did you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 05:10 PM

"And, last time I heard, maths was not a crucial part of history degree courses."
Whoever said it was? you stupid boy!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 04:39 PM

Unfocused and incomprehensible as ever. And, last time I heard, maths was not a crucial part of history degree courses. You are severely jealous of anyone who's had a decent education. Comes across so clearly in so many of your posts. You'll just have to satisfy yourself (oops, did I really just say that?) with the delusion that you got your degree in Common Sense from the University of Life, old boy. Gentleman's third, I should imagine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 03:54 PM

The muddy side of politics is littered with links to terrorism.
Look at it as an example of real politik. The same reason commie corbyn supposedly backs brexit. (the alternative being a massacre in the polling booth.
Look what your little mate had to say on real politik:

From: Steve Shaw - PM
Date: 30 Sep 17 - 03:25 PM
Any party(LABOUR) that voted against a referendum would have been instant toast and you know it. You don't do realpolitik, do you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 02:42 PM

At least Abbot's mistake didn't cost the British taxpayer a 1 BILLION bung to a terrorist-linked party as THERESA MAY'S did
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 01:47 PM

The abbot.. may have a degree in history from cambridge but she has publicly demonstrated on several occasions that her grasp of basic maths is easily surpassed by the average 10 year old.
Would you like a few examples?

Here is one anyway to save you the bother of trying to deny the obvious.
You see stevie boy, links can be used to back up statements.

Perchance that is why you do not use them. It would never do for facts to get in the way of your opinionated scribings.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/may/05/diane-abbott-underestimates-labour-local-election-losses-video


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 12:47 PM

"You are just puffed up minnows"

Calm down, dear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 12:46 PM

The trouble with that joke is that it's a rehash of a Dubya joke from at least twelve years ago in which he got agitated when he heard that a Brazilian had been killed and he wanted to know how many a Brazilian was. When you hear a weak joke that's just a rehash of an old one it's just tiresome, certainly not what I'd call "hilarious." But we know, don't we, that poor Iains has a thing about Diane Abbott, having been singularly rounded on here for his tasteless remarks about her appearance. It'll presumably be even worse now that I've informed him that she's well educated to boot. I wonder whether she wears sandals. Poor Diane.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 12:14 PM

Being in a minority doesn't mean you're losing the actual debate.

If public opinion moves away from you, it does mean you are losing the actual debate.

You personally are in a minority of one in almost every thread here,

Yes, but only on Mudcat, not in the real world.

In the real world, Remainers lost the referendum and the trend is moving towards Leave.

In the real world, your Far Left politics put you in an almost irrelevant fringe minority.

You are just puffed up minnows. A big shoal here but only in this tiny pond.
Not the real world Steve.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 11:46 AM

I thought it hilarious. Just shows what miserable bas****ds the remainers are.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 10:10 AM

I presume that the Diane Abbott quip came from this:

Diane Abbott

A bit weak as an attempt at humour.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 09:38 AM

Being in a minority doesn't mean you're losing the actual debate. You personally are in a minority of one in almost every thread here, unless you count bobad who's never there when you need him and always there when we don't, yet you routinely tell those in the majority over you that they lose. So stop being silly.

For the benefit of anyone here who is scared or jealous of well-educated people, or who harbours other philistine notions about education, Diane Abbott has a history degree from Cambridge, to which you don't get unless you're quite clever.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 09:25 AM

Let me explain Steve.
The debate continues nationally as it does here.
The number supporting Remain is falling, while the number supporting Leave is increasing and is now ahead again.
Remain is thus losing the argument, and Leave is winning it.
OK?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 08:42 AM

"You Gov says Leave has overtaken Remain again, so Remain is losing the argument."

Non sequitur.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 05:56 AM

Diane Abbott was asked to comment about Carillion, she said, ?Remind me again, how many is a ?Carillion??


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 05:07 AM

You Gov says Leave has overtaken Remain again, so Remain is losing the argument.

New: was Britain right or wrong to vote for Brexit?
Right: 45% (+3)
Wrong 44% (-2)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/01/19/majority-britons-think-uk-right-leave-european-union-first-time/


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 05:07 AM

I agree with all that, DMcG, though I never came close to voting leave. The EU contains a giant and stilted bureaucracy. There's a lot wrong and a lot that needs reforming. But the edifice is more than good enough for us to stay in and fight for that reform from within. That's the kind of deal we should now be trying to make.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 04:58 AM

?


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Iains
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 04:23 AM

Well stevie blunder congratulations on the cut and paste. Repetition merely enforces my point of view, even a fool realises that!

Was it a failed attempt to make a link that lead to the crying "
Bwahahahaha! "
My commiserations. Keep trying. If a monkey can tap out a bible passage, there may be glimmer of hope for you yet!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Jan 18 - 03:48 AM

As far as entrenched positions is concerned, I think I fit quite well into the "7/10" rating for the EU that Corbyn famously declared. I think there are a lot of remainers who are similar, and no doubt also a goodly proportion of leavers. Zealots on either side are probably a minority, however vocal.

In my case, the thing that made me most inclined to vote 'Leave' was how the EU treated Greece. While that was undoubtedly a difficult situation to resolve, it seemed that the rights of the people, including their democracy, were ignored to meet the financier's objectives. That was a system I wanted no part of, so seriously considered voting leave. However, it also seemed to me the costs of leaving were too great, so I ended up voting to stay in a less than satisfactory system, with the - albeit difficult - possibility of improving it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 06:26 PM

I will not, Greg! I will not! I am no Keith!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 06:26 PM

With so many intangibles being thrown into the air having heated arguments is rather pointless ... Leave and remain are entrenched positions on here and unlikely to change without someone making huge concessions and I consider that unlikely.

I agree with your second point. However, should there be a minor miracle and one side here completely convert to the other, it would not make a jot of difference to the outcome, which is being decided in rooms well beyond our influence. It would be possible to draw the conclusion that therefore we are just wasting our time talking at all: we should just sit here and be the passive recipients of anything that happens. That seems to add weight to your first point, but I don't think that is right. We are told more and more about "the bubble" where you only hear from people you agree with: there is a merit in hearing from those you don't agree with. It need not be about one side 'converting' the other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 06:17 PM

Jaysus. Steve, you've got to get on board with the rest of the post-factual world, dontcha know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 05:36 PM

The Guardian has a long history of inviting people of all political colours to write columns. In addition, the paper is not owned by a media proprietor. The Guardian gets lots of things wrong but it gets more right than most other papers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 05:27 PM

I frequently reference Hansard, which rarely draws any comments either....


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Raggytash
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 05:22 PM

There are some who consider the Guardian to be extremely left wing newspaper. There are some who consider the Mail to be extremely left wing newspaper, figures in this regard were posted a few day ago.

The Guardian has long been considered by most discerning people to be a liberal paper. Thus my use of it as a source.


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 05:21 PM

"I prefer to regard my line spacings as an aid to clarity."

"Raggytash. I also construct numerous links to offer support to the points I make. However it is a failing of many on here to look at the source provider(eg CNN) and then promptly rubbish the content. For the most part supposed facts can easily be checked. A political story will be reported by left, right and the center with the associated bias provided as a freebie.
However when it comes to Brexit the argument revolves around a total unknown, With so many intangibles being thrown into the air having heated arguments is rather pointless. The entire proposition is in a state of flux and quite honestly having heated arguments over hypothetical scenarios is a waste of time. Leave and remain are entrenched positions on here and unlikely to change without someone making huge concessions and I consider that unlikely. The two sides are never going to agree and if the postings exceed 10000 nothing will have changed.
I read your links but obviously they are chosen to back up your position. The Guardian is very good at presenting biased opinions as facts. Many on here present opinion as facts. Some of us make it a point to carefully discriminate between the two, others are more "careless".
   I could respond to your links in the way others do and rubbish the source but I would regard that as a cop out."


Bwahahahaha!


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Subject: RE: BS: Post Brexit life in the UK
From: bobad
Date: 19 Jan 18 - 05:01 PM

Usual response when shown to be in error, start claiming to be a victim, and insult others.

Spot on.


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