Tech: Download from Spotify!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 08 Jun 18 - 07:57 AM

Listening to a recent David Crosby gig - superb!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 02:22 PM

I can't resist, even though it's been posted before in mudcat:

A Folksinger Earns Every Dime
(David Buskin/Robin Batteau/Avera Bingham)

Come all you wearers of Birkenstock shoes
You LL Beaners and you J. Crews
We'll tell you a story of toil and of strife
And the hardship that comes with a folksinger's life

Well, it's up in the morning as early as ten
And it's yesterday's coffee or make some again
But you gotta get rolling 'cause it's almost noon
The show is at eight and there's six strings to tune

And it's hard, buddy, it's hard
Living off rhythm and rhyme
Well it's hard, bucko, it's hard
A folksinger earns every dime

Your fingers are sore from the concert last night
But you've gotta ignore it, there's folk songs to write
'Bout people and places and hard luck and things
Wherever there's trouble, a folksinger sings

Well you're out on the road and the living is hell
You might even get stuck in some two-star hotel
Where they haven't got Showtime and the bed sheets are creased
And the room service takes twenty minutes at least

And it's hard, fella, it's hard
Living off rhythm and rhyme
Well it's hard, amigo, it's hard
A folksinger earns every dime

Well, it's off to the hoot but you're having bad luck
The crowd yells, Sing 'Love Shack!"
The crowd yells, "You suck!"
And the trio before you is playing too long
They just closed out their set with your opening song

And it's hard, hoo boy, it's hard
Living off rhythm and rhyme
Well it's hard, dude, it's hard
A folksinger earns every dime

You're playing a festival south of the Smokies
On a stool full of splinters and a field full of folkies
Tom Paxton is late so you gotta keep strummin'
When a man cries, "Look out, there's a mime troupe a-comin"'

Your blood starts to boil and your skin starts to crawl
They're doing the Robot, they're doing the Wall
It's like a bad dream or a weird deja vu
Of the Great Mime Disaster of '72

And it's hard, Muffy, it's hard
Living off rhythm and rhyme
Well it's hard, Woody, it's hard
A folksinger earns every dime

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 01:41 PM

Mudcat miseries - I like that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Fred
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 10:43 AM

Steal away,Steal away,Steal away like Bozo.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 10:15 AM

I've definitely gone along to concerts based on what I've heard on Spotify.
Once there, if I'm feeling flush, I'll buy a CD
which I'll probably only play a couple of times.
I often find there is only one track I particularly like from a whole CD.

Of artists I play on Spotify I'd guess 50% are dead and I don't mind too much if the current copyright holder doesn't make much.

Ive got a short attention span, I don't often play more than half a dozen tracks from a single artist.
I'll go through a spell of listening to my own Spotify playlists. I'm sorry living artists aren't getting a decent £ for that.
Then I'll listen to other stuff I've earmarked and find there is only one track out of twenty I might want ever to hear again.

A few years ago someone tried to set up a micropayment system through lastfm & PayPal.
But I think is was very messy and it turned out that pp was still taking a big %.

I don't think I'd go to the trouble of downloading something.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 09:59 AM

Reynard - if you look back at my earlier posts in this thread, you'll see we are in agreement...


But we can still have a tongue in cheek chuckle at mudcat miseries,
and the 21st Century music industry...

I'd be happy to make the price of a few sets of strings off selling direct to my 'fans'...[hello mum...]...

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Reynard
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 09:38 AM

Anyone can have their music put on Spotify for a payment of around £30, you don't have to be a "mega music corporation" or even signed to a label. The fact that Spotify pays risible rates to artists is a fair point but a seperate issue.

Artists accept that they get almost nothing in return because Spotify is a good way to publicise their music and hopefully, get people to pay for it later. If you genuinely can't afford to buy music, you can continue to listen to it for free on Spotify- at least the artist will recieve their pittance. If you are going to the trouble of downloading if off Spotify, you really ought to buy it.

I couldn't care less if you're illegally downloading the Rolling Stones or Radiohead, but I thought this site was focussed on folk and trad music where we are largely talking about a scene where even the most well known artists are probably only just scraping by.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 09:22 AM

Bonz - it's not the money that matters - it's the principle...

Mudcat miseries can't tolerate folks on low incomes
ripping off big mega music corporations
that ruthlessly profiteer by exploiting powerless artists...


...though I guess a 'low income' is relative here at mudcat...
us members being a mix of folks from skint musicians to rather comfortably well off pensioners...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 08:37 AM

Ah well, a couple of dozen fractions of a penny is neither here nor there - carry on downloading, recording gigs and radio!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 06 Jun 18 - 07:47 AM

"Spotify is free to use ... so does the artist get paid ?"

Anecdotal - I don't have any tracks there myself, or exact numbers, but I know someone who does. He tells me a "typical" payment from the streaming sites would be a fraction of a penny per play.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,romeover
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 05:39 PM

From Hugh Blumenfeld, (and it's copyrighted):

Whatever happened to Mozart's money
Where the hell did it go?
They say he spent it all on wine and women
But even so--
I know a guy who wrote a song for Garth Brooks
And now he's got it made for life
But Mozart never really made a lot of money
And that's what I tell my wife
I'd like to know what happened to Poe's
Investment portfolio
Maybe he walled it up in that crypt
With his good friend Fortunato
I know a guy who knows Stephen King
Who'll be a sheik in the afterlife
But Mr. Poe never made much dough
And that's what I tell my wife
I accost her with tales of Stephen Foster
And the visionary William Blake
I say "Honey, you can't count the money
That a genius doesn't make."
But Wallace Stevens was also from Hartford
A big insurance man
William Carlos Williams was a pediatrician
And Eliot worked in a bank
Time will tell if they were poets as well
Or if they're just big books on the shelf
But most of my heroes never made a lot of money
And that's what I keep telling myself
What ever happened to Mozart's money--and what about van Gogh?
I tell you there's more than blood that's red in the books of Edgar Allen Poe
Imagination in large denominations is something you can never earn
But the poor damned souls who made Mozart's money, still got money to burn
Yeah, the poor damned souls who made Mozart's money
They still got money to burn

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 03:41 PM

Exactly, well said!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: sleepyjon
Date: 05 Jun 18 - 02:37 PM

I tiptoe in with due deference - seems a lot of heat but not much light above.

Just a simple question - Spotify is free to use (if you can stand the ads) so does the artist get paid if I do that? - and if I "rewind" and listen again, does the artist get paid again? - I'm sure you'll see where I'm going with that.

SJ

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jun 18 - 04:18 AM

However, I might play a regular CD over breakfast this morning!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 01:28 PM

So, Tuneskit Spotify Music Converter opens Spotify, but it's not possible to listen to tracks. The trick is to open regular Spotify first to listen then copy either the album or selection of tracks link and paste it into TSMC for downloading.

Not of course for albums already ordered!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Greenie
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 10:04 AM

I guess not.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 10:00 AM

Very stupid thing to say lad.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Greenie
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 09:56 AM

Bonzo,

Any idea where I can download the time to listen to all this?

Greenie

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 09:45 AM

Get away with whatever you can!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 09:09 AM

No, free with kosher bacon!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 08:21 AM

Steal away, Bonzo.

PS Do you buy your exclamation marks wholesale?

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 06:25 AM

Tuneskit Spotify Converter does the trick!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 18 - 04:49 AM

Managed to grab Rock On by The Bunch!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 18 - 09:55 AM

Whatever Bonz's reason for starting this thread,
he provided an opportunity for serious debate on complex modern issues
relevant to our work, marketing, and reward systems...

Too much to ask of mudcat in it's declining moribund state of health...???

Oh well... never mind... none of us are getting any younger, or more tolerant...

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 22 May 18 - 08:23 AM

I have "syntax flaws"?

I'm sure that sounded very clever inside your head, robomatic.

ROTFLMAO

Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 21 May 18 - 03:25 PM

Bob, apparently you have syntax flaws. You can't tell the difference between questions and declarative sentences.
You also appear to be confused on who is posting what.
Hoping your hair-trigger heals but not expecting an apology,
Robo

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 20 May 18 - 05:40 AM

I shall download some more from spotify today!!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 20 May 18 - 03:13 AM

For robomatic

Best of luck,
Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 18 - 02:08 AM

robomatic:

What's your first language?

Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 19 May 18 - 07:38 PM

GUEST Bob. I have no problem with your posts, other than understanding them.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 06:53 PM

... and while you are at it, identify yourself...
at least to the extent of using a consistent name, if only for this thread..

Who knows how many GUESTS there are here in total..
and which is the most worthy of being taken seriously...???

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 06:45 PM

Make your point clearly then...

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 18 - 05:28 PM

Sadly, yer still missin' the point, Laddie.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:58 PM

At this point in the 21st Century I still continue to follow the 1970's punk/indie ethos
of artists selling direct and cutting out all middle men...

In a tiny niche market like ours it's a point of honour and integrity
not to rip off our friends and contemporaries...

Though for practicality, there needs to be sufficient reasonable flexibility
for our music getting heard by potential buyers
without petty officious loud mouthed knowalls getting all bitter and over-legalistic...

I'd be surprised, no.. disturbed, if any of us had expectations of getting a mansion and rolls royce off of music sales...

Ed Sheeran has fleeced all that spare money out of the punters.. he's got your share...

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:39 PM

I really enjoyed GUEST in this thread

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Nick
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:37 PM

Well people I know are good singers and players - an example Wendy Arrowsmith - haven't retired yet

Even Holy Moly and the Crackers - great band and just happen to know one or two of them - go from 4000 (decent) to 100000 and 383000 plays.

Work their socks off. Keep buying the cds

Sons band are sitting at the 30-40000 plays. Not rich yet

Bit heavy for a folk site

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 01:32 PM

The fact that a moaning misery GUEST would even go to the trouble of manipulating HTML
for no significant purpose,
does tend to indicate a rather odd uptight personality...

excellent... I thrive on folks like that... they willingly present themselves for derision...



As if they only listen to the limited few tracks they ever pay for...?????


Though, nearly 40 years ago I did know a bloke who actually literally did
only buy and listen to Meatloaf's "Bat out of Hell" cassette..

He rarely came out of his room, and as far as we knew had no other access to hearing any other music...

He'd be in his 60s now...

Wonder if he's a folkie now.. a mudcatter maybe...?????

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 18 - 10:09 AM

It's a buffoon who can change his type size which is interesting for a casual guest.I wonder who that might be....

Likely any one of multiple millions of persons with a rudimentary knowledge of HTML.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Richard Robinson
Date: 19 May 18 - 06:59 AM

Sorry about the previous post ...

"What does the average musician make when their work is listened to on Spotify? Does anyone in this thread really know?"

Is a good question. I know a person with music there, he tells me a typical payment for a play from one of the streaming websites is something like 0.4p. There are probably people here who have numbers, does this agree with their experience ?

"So where is the money really going? "

To the people who run the websites ? This is the internet advertising economy - the music on spotify is clickbait to attract eardrums that they can rent to the advertisers, unless they're paid not to.

I have some recordings that will be hitting the Big Wide World shortly, and the above is why I won't be putting them out via the streaming sites. I'll be putting them on bandcamp, who make their money by selling recordings and taking a percentage. From the musician's point of view, this seems a much healthier idea.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 May 18 - 04:25 AM

And you have a happy Saturday too, beautiful sunshine on the Surrey North Downs this morning.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST
Date: 19 May 18 - 03:46 AM

You've got me bang to rights there mate! . . . . I DON'T spend a great deal each month on recorded music.

Like many people, I don't have a great deal of spare money.

However, living in north Derbyshire I am spoilt for opportunities to listen to live music, much of it freely given at sessions and singarounds, but also the occasional gig at places like The Globe in Glossop or Greystones in Sheffield.

I do have the luxury of an extensive record and CD collection, built up over 50+ years, which grows very slowly these days; but, I do add to it now and again, usually buying CDs from the acts I see at gigs.

I have been known to smile once in awhile, too.

When someone kicks a ball over my garden fence, I don't puncture it. Neither do I claim it for my own just because it's there for the taking.

Sanctimonious? Probably, I have many faults. But one of them is not imagining the faults of others to excuse my own inadequacies.

Have a happy Saturday!

Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 19 May 18 - 03:37 AM

I can't get Spotify off my tablet. Along with Kobo books, Raketen TV, and the Tesco shopping app (it being a Tesco tablet), Android refuses to let me uninstall them.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 03:01 AM

... and I bet they puncture any balls kicked over their garden fence...

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 May 18 - 02:57 AM

I wonder how much per month an average hardline 'theft is theft' paragon of miserableness
spends on recorded music...???

I wonder how many are misers who don't even like music..???


I bet some even lean out their window with their ear trumpets
scanning for passing groups teenagers sharing music on a portable speaker..

fingers poised to call an emergency music rights lawyer...

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 19 May 18 - 02:18 AM

Who'd have thought it?

I went to Tesco and bought a 4 pint carton of milk; bargain price! The big boys know how discount - sod the farmers!

Wouldn't you know it? I forgot tea bags! So I popped into my corner shop and nicked 40 Tetley's . . . . not a 240 box!!! I'm not selfish!!

Bastard owner! I told him I'd already bought my milk but he still accused me of theft!

Some people are complete twats; no?

Bob

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: robomatic
Date: 18 May 18 - 10:12 PM

Theft is theft?

As for current artists, there are legal methods for them to collect the fruit of their labors. What fruits? What labors?

What does the average musician make when their work is listened to on Spotify? Does anyone in this thread really know?

Apple has been selling music by the track for what- ten years? How much of that goes to the artist?

Are we talking fair trade? Or legal theft?

When Ricky Lee Jones played here, I paid for a USB bracelet which contained ALL her albums. The music belonged to me, was not DRM and did not waste space.

I can comprehend a system that pays a creator a modicum everytime their work is played at the request of a user.

I don't have a lot of respect for the middlemen who create nothing and charge for the use of other people's work, but have parlayed their ownership of other peoples' work into profits for themselves. Case in point, the folks who sued and charged for every use of the "Happy Birthday" song long after it was gone from its creators and their relatives.

So where is the money really going?

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 May 18 - 07:35 PM

oh... and just preordered another CD I didn't know was in the pipeline...

GUEST can go stuff a blank cassette tape up his/her ****...

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 May 18 - 07:19 PM

Anyway, I can't speak for bonkers incoherent GUEST...

But I've just preordered a double Live CD set off Amazon,
and bought 2 budget priced box sets last night...

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 18 May 18 - 05:39 PM

"I would be very surprised if there's anything on Spotify that's actually out of print, so please, just buy the CD or pay for a legitmate download. This is illegal and the artists get nothing"

For Clapton's sake - the artist gets publicity, people listen, tell others, buy CD, make copy for a friend who then book tickets to see the artist.

I do NOT listen to sanctimoneous whinging from mudcat miseries.

Subject: RE: Tech: Download from Spotify!!
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 18 May 18 - 01:03 PM

A meeting of old and new technologies..

get yer cassette recorder out of the loft and tape spotify tracks off a PC or phone..

Remember "HOME TAPING IS KILLING MUSIC !!!!!"

If a friend hands you a cassette and points to your new LP or 8-track tape, just say no, and call the police...