BS: UK General election December 12 2019

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 09:45 PM

You don't actually know what you're talking about. Corbyn voted remain. I'm a member of the party but I disapprove of the image conveyed by Momentum and I will never join them. Momentum haven't learned the lessons of the Derek Hatton days. But your post is predicated on the lie that Jeremy is a brexiteer. He is not, and his stance, though horribly naive and there for the taking by the tabloids you presumably get your "information" from, was in fact grown up when put alongside the brainless "get brexit done" shit from your party and the disastrous "revoke" LibDem ploy (disastrous but not undemocratic, as I insist on saying). Read better papers.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:29 PM

I think it's time the liberals disbanded,
and each member decide if they are more Labour or tory...

I can persuade myself that a streamlined two party system
might work more effectively...???

[ Maybe Independents, comic nutter candidates, and single issue no hope parties,
might still serve some purpose...???]

That'd provide plenty enough overlap room in the middle to strengthen centrist moderates
from both sides in co-operation on specific issue by issue basis,
as if in coalition...


well it's an idea...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Dec 19 - 10:49 PM

I’m obviously not the only one with insomnia tonight! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:07 AM

Unless you are a millionaire and/or tax evader, you are indeed an idiot (fuckwit is not a word I use) if you voted brexit and/or Tory. Over the next three or four years you will see this in spades. You were taken in by the mass media. You were taken in by a hubris-ridden, testosterone-fuelled liar. You were all too easily fooled by a hostile media into thinking that Jeremy, a principled man who drops hot shit on Johnson when it comes to honesty, is the devil incarnate. If you're not actually an idiot, you're a racist. It really is that simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmJLxpkzysI

I do object to be called an idiot and racist, especially by an idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:18 AM

Bit of a random collection of thoughts here!


I posted here many months ago that I thought Labour's policy on addressing Brexit was mature and intelligent, but unfortunately completely 'unsellable' on the doorstep. I forget who it was but some famous author - Samuel Johnson, perhaps - said when writing you needed to do in such a way:

Not that it can be understood by those who want
But that it must be understood, whether they want to or not

The policy certainly met the first criteria, but failed dismally at the second. Now, there was actually a faint chance it could have succeeded if it was argued strongly as that grown up position, but time and again - even in Corbyn's articles after the result - that is was necessary because Labour's base straddled Leavers and Remainers.

That presents it, not as a sensible idea, but as a squalid attempt to get maximum advantage for the Labour party, with the wishes of the actual constituents of secondary importance. [Out of interest, this was when I left the Labour party. ]

So yes, I do see Labour's Brexit policy as the biggest reason why they lost so badly. This is not to excuse Corbyn, who basically showed no enthusiasm or ability to think on his feet. He was presented with no end of open goals during PM's Questions, but almost always ignored them, sticking to his pre-prepared notes. Then in the election period the one time I thought 'Yes! This is the Corbyn of 2016' was at the launch of the manifesto: the fire and passion was there. But it was missing from all the televised debates and interviews.


But as I and many others have said, we are not 'getting Brexit done':   just taking the first step. So whoever becomes the next Labour leader will still have Brexit on their plate. Not Leave/Remain, of course, but how close to the EU we remain. And I think we might well see interesting things happening in the new Parliament on that front. A constant cry of the Remainers was that "people voted to Leave the EU: They did not vote to be poorer and lose their rights." Given his majority, especially in the red wall constituencies, I find it plausible that Johnson seeks a deal that is very 'BRINO' according to some people. I don't think we will see signs of that in the immediate cabinet, but after the bigger shuffle predicted after 31 Jan, we should see clues one way or the other.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:20 AM

The thing is BWM, when you play the ukulele, you need the hours before light to listen to your george Formby dvds and work on your split stroke and your triple strum.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:28 AM

Watched Jc and macDonnel's interviews.

they were going to take it on the chin. Then they blamed the media.

Bit like the captain of The Titanic blaming the iceberg. if you are sailing on these oceans you have a responsibility not sail into these things.

Sneer at will, but Blair calmed them down.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:47 AM

I found these two commentaries on the result interesting.

Johnathan Pie - not his usual comic wild fury, but some serious points

Rory Stewart

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:49 AM

”The thing is BWM, when you play the ukulele, you need the hours before light to listen to your george Formby dvds and work on your split stroke and your triple strum.”

Never gonna happen. I have enough trouble playing guitar and mando.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:16 AM

Sure, Blair got Murdoch onside. He was young and dynamic and bloody popular with a massive majority, and the Tories threw up a succession of dolts as party leaders. Corbyn had every attack dog at his throat in both this and the previous election. In both cases he chose to take the high road. To an extent it worked with May because she was a seriously unattractive and stodgy figure. It looks like his advisers told him to adopt the same ploy this time, but the Tory backroom boys saw that coming, kept their poster boy out of the glare as much as humanly possible and did what Tories always do best: tell the public lies in insultingly simple slogans. It works because the electorate in this country is largely politically illiterate. Remember all those Beeb vox pops, enough to make a grown man weep at times...I agree about missing open goals. Attacks on the Tory record over a decade were couched in general and mild terms, rarely bigging up those irrefutable specific facts and figures about crumbling schools with huge classes and slashed funding, hospital waiting lists going through the roof, bed shortages, patients dying on trolleys, A&E disaster areas, millions more workers suffering the abuses of zero-hours contracts and the gig economy, homelessness burgeoning, benefits claimants suffering destitution because of a severely ballsed-up and inhuman benefits system,, food banks... All the numbers were out there but we didn't hear anywhere enough of them. Then that big mistake on brexit... but isn't hindsight wonderful.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:24 AM

Then that big mistake on brexit... but isn't hindsight wonderful

Yes it is. But when I resigned my Labour party membership I included a fairly long (and hopefully more organised) explanation that said the same sort of things I did in my earlier post. And that was long before an election was in the offing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:53 AM

Jeremy Corbyn was accused of being in denial yesterday after issuing a Labour recruitment video in which he says his manifesto had been “popular”. He claimed to “have won the arguments” and “inspired millions to engage in politics”.

He inspired millions all right! To kick labour out of power for a generation. Music to my ears.
3 rousing cheers for Bojo.

Good to see he has the BBC in his sights. Do a maggie, sell them off and cancel the annual tax.
Then carry out the delayed electoral boundary commission recommendations.
That will reduce labour even more.
Then we can have a reform of postal votes
Then put a stake through the heart of labour with the Equality and Human Rights Commission's findings on antisemitism.

OOOH happy days!
I hate to say I told you so but I will anyway:
Iains - PM
Date: 21 Aug 19 - 10:24 AM

The Boris bounce versus the compo corpse.
Spiffing news from the last survey results: Boris has taken a lead of 14 points over Labour in a new Kantar TNS poll, with the party jumping by 17% since May. What a lad! You can read all about it on Guido's site,
the font of truth and editorial accuracy
(Font as in once dipped in it you are baptized into a life of truth and righteousness and drop all those foolish leftie ideas.
(Remember Ecclesiastes 10:2)

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 05:56 AM

'But Tories are always in it for what they can get'

Just where have you got in these tortured ponderings where ordinary people are not allowed to have any material aspirations?

And the people you're taking this gospel from Mark Steel (on the richest comedians register) and Diane Abbot (net worth 3 million)

When I started work as a teacher, my wage packet was thirteen quid a week. that was after 3 years at college. A third of my wage packet was confiscated by the government and half of my wife's. But we figured that was allright. the government were going to take care of us.

Then along comes Thatcher with the dutch auction offering lower taxes each election. then along comes the free movement of European citizens. they all want council houses, free education, free health care.

So surprise surprise! the government can't afford to pay my teaching pension - have to delay for five years. Ladies born a couple of years after me fare even worse.

just why British citizens aren't allowed to be 'in it for themselves' to the extent of getting a decent pension that they have paid for, even.

the hole in the bottom of the Corbyn boat finance wise was the fact that - however much he raised by tax (and most people thought he was bullshitting) that free movement of EU citizens would gobble it up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:15 AM

Iains - Boris is weird. Stop pretending you know what is going to happen.

I'm pretty sure there will be casualties. Just hold your breath and hope we're still alive.

Nobody really wanted him as PM. It was just that JC was unspeakably and very obviously bad.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:15 AM

I'm not a racist but...

then along comes the free movement of European citizens. they all want council houses, free education, free health care.

Showing your true colours there, Al. You are going to tell us east Europeans are criminals next. Oh, hang on, you already have!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:30 AM

With comments like that you are a racist, in fact worse than a racist because you are spouting crap aimed at stirring up prejudicies.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:39 AM

No Dave - that was your fantasy.

I live happily next door to a Polish guy who pays his taxes, works every day and has two lovely kids.

I told you that I had a friend whose quid shop on Boston green was routinely robbeed by an East European gang that the police couldn't be arsed to chase after.

You refused to accept that.

You are one of the myriad of voices who called me racist because I asked a simple question.

Why did those Vietnamese people risk their lives to come to England when they are living in European countries that, by their own account at least, have better health systems, pay better wages, enjoy greater political freedom, have wonderful open opportunities to all residents.

And yet people risk their lives every single day live years in squalid refugee camps to come to this shitty little country of unfriendly racists, money grabbing tories, not to mention their bloody awful folk music.

Doesn't really add up.

Are you sure you got your facts right?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:42 AM

I can't believe there is so much gloating going on in this thread. I wish I had the means to p*** off away from this cesspit of a country. Women voting to be robbed of 7 years of their pensions????? Very commendable that they want to die before they get back any of what they have paid in National Insurance so that their betters pay less tax.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:46 AM

@ Big Al Whittle. I said for months that compo's postion on brexit was nonsense. When you are having a general election vote hijacked by brexit it would seem obvious to a two year old that clarity was required.
To argue a foggy neutral stance on brexit was a guaranteed recipe for disaster for labour. As events clearly demonstrated.
For future events the intent is already laid out.
As for Boris being weird he is popular.
He will lead us out of the wilderness and into the promised land of blue passports and real border controls, just like days of yore.

This royal throne of kings, this sceptred isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for her self
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in a silver sea
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:54 AM

when a private citizen can't express a simple and obvious truth, without being accused of spouting crap designed to stir people up.

I think we have reached a crisis point. I don't want to stir anyone up.

But maybe you need to know why the party I have voted for all my life is so unpopular. Basically it won't address the legitimate concerns of this country's citizens.

Tells them they are fools, ignorant racists, spouting crap.

Look to yourself as to why you lost that election.

Calling Boris an albino piglet won't do it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 06:57 AM

No Dave - that was your fantasy

Was it, Al? So your are going to deny posting this then?

People in my home county Lincolnshire are very. upset at the influx of Eastern Europeans, and the lawlessness they have bought to towns like Boston

If that is not saying that East Europeans are lawless, just what is it saying? Oh, and I do not have Polish neighbours. I am half Polish. I suppose being told to tuck off back to Poland where I belong is not racist either.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:17 AM

How does that speech end, Ians?

Ah yes,

That England that was wont to conquer others
Hath made a shameful conquest of itself.

=====

We are where we are. For me, this conquest is not 'Brexit', but a willingness to adopt a leader who avoids scrutiny and whose manifesto is so light. But, as I indicated, it seems possible to me we follow a BRINO deal in the end. Do not forget that Johnson is famed for writing those two articles before the referendum. Even if he went for Leave in the end, that implies he saw some positives in our relationship with Europe, unlike some of the hardest ERG who seem it think it is all bad almost tautologically. It may stretch me a bit, but I am not without hope.

The 'Remain' side need to recalibrate. I and other sare convinced that any form of Leave is worse than Remaining. I still think that, but it no longer the question. The focus now must be - as to be honest it should have been from the referendum onwards - how to get the best Leave deal.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:42 AM

Wish there was no truth in what I said, but like many Boston exiles, that is the message we keep getting. Bitching about the subject has been banned on the Boston website.

Just because someone tells you an uncomfortable truth Dave, it doesn't mean its motivated by malice.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 07:42 AM

The voice of reason, DMcG - as ever! Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:12 AM

Just because someone tells you an uncomfortable truth Dave

But it's not an uncomfortable truth, Al. It's not any sort of truth.

http://theconversation.com/immigration-and-crime-is-there-a-link-93521

Direct from the article

a large scale European study on the effects of immigration on crime concluded that while an increase in immigration generally does not affect crime levels, it does go hand-in-hand with increased public anxiety and anti-immigration stances.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:41 AM

Yes I get it, everyone who talks about what they see every day is stupid, racist and ignorant. Only 'nice liberal' people are allowed to have conversations and express their niceness, because they're so very nice. And all the rest of the people are hopelessly ignorant, racist and lets face it - stupid.

I think Boris is going to be there in No 10 for ever.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 08:58 AM

Right you are Al. A Labour MP from an affluent urban area who got elected last week says to a Labour MP from a working-class area who lost her seat: “I’m glad my voters aren’t as stupid as yours.”

YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:03 AM

We don't know that, bobad. Flint accused Thornberry of saying that. Thornberry is denying it and it looks likely it could go to court to fight over the ins and outs.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:03 AM

Ye gods, this didn't take very long. It would seem that all those tax cuts that the nice Mr Johnson promised us may not see the light of day.


Tax plans face squeeze

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:19 AM

Predictable Raggy - like I say how bad did Labour have to be to lose to Flashman of the Fifth!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:25 AM

Yes, Al, your remark was racist. Not only that, you forgot that immigrants contribute hugely to our economy, and claim benefits far less than us "natives." Without those immigrants the NHS would collapse and my mum's care home would have to close down. As for Tories being in it for themselves, the difference is that Tories also believe in the devil taking the hindmost and that there is an underclass of undeserving, skiving poor. And 48% of Tory voters characterise themselves as racist.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:27 AM

I find it bizarre that the leftie shouties are screeching racist at the clever brexiteers when it is their own party under investigation for racism.
Cognitive dissonance? or merely abject stupidity?
Now all their leaders are rolling around fighting like alley cats.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkFGD5g4NeQ

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 09:31 AM

Flashman of the Fifth! or Bunter of the fourth?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 10:25 AM

So no real justification for your comments about East Eurpeans being criminals or freeloaders then, Al. Just a rant about "what you see everyday". Really? You see lawlessness brought to communities by East Europeans and immigrants just out to get free health and education every day? Ye gods. When I lived in Salford and worked in Bradford, both areas with massive numbers of immigrants, I don't think I saw any such gangs of Lithuanian thugs or Polish scroungers roaming the streets. Must be pretty bad where you live. I'd come back North if I was you!

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Iains
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 10:41 AM

Michael Gove, introducing the Prime Minister on Friday morning, looked Britain’s remaining Labour voters in the eye, and told them “Never again must our Jewish citizens live in fear.” Never again.

“It is a new dawn, is it not?” Boris in victory couldn’t help himself, regurgitating the 1997 remark with which Blair proclaimed his own era. Laughing at Blair’s messianic pretension, throwing it back in Labour’s shocked, defeated faces.

Boris has a talent, shared by no other politician, of being able simultaneously to poke fun at his overblown Churchillian rhetorical style, without undermining the seriousness of its message. It’s (one reason) why he drives his opponents to insanity – did you see that sliver of malice, Alastair Campbell, snarling about “Johnson” on Friday morning? He hates that we think of the PM as “Boris”. Snarl away, Campbell, for all the good it’ll do your shrivelled, impoverished politics. Snarl right off, in fact, and close the door behind you.

Because this was a victory, above everything, for decency; a rejection of every strain – not just the Corbynite variety – of the linguistic and psychological thuggery that Labour has dressed up as virtue and forced down your throat since 1997. The political map is redrawn, and the Tory Party entirely re-invented. The consequences of that reinvention deserve many articles – it is literally a new party. But first let’s pick over the brittle, dusty bones of a dead one.

The Labour Party (not “The Left”) is history. Even when Blair reduced the Conservatives to their heartlands in the 1990s, the party still had heartlands. Labour, in 2019, doesn’t. It’s a collective noun for student Marxists, trades union hard-men, and spiteful anti-Semites. That’s not a political party: it’s a pathogen. A pathogen with nowhere to replicate.

The dramatic irony! Labour finally achieved its ambition to empower and politicise the working-class:Joe average walked 15 miles on Thursday, but he’d have crawled over broken glass to keep people like Corbyn from winning seats like Barnet
(from Unherd.com

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 11:05 AM

Yes what my friends tell me every day about the town that had the highest number of people voting for leave in the country.

If you are lucky enough to live somewhere unaffected by the trouble, keep your gob shut on the subject.

The utter bullshit YOU and STEVE are spouting is the Hampstead Corbyn line that was so far out of touch with reality that we have Boris in Number 10.

You have no shame about the utter rubbish you talk, and the situation you have created. I worked in multi racial schools and gigged and recorded all over Europe. If there was medal for being self righteous idiots who have contributed to the downfall of the labour party - buggers like you with your insults and sneering would take the gold.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 11:19 AM

Pretty obvious that you are in denial about making racist remarks, Al. You say that East Europeans cause crime and immigrants in general are just here for what they can get free. Those are both unequivocally racist statements. You have no justification for them so you go into attack mode.

I used to think that you just made poorly chosen comments. I am not so sure now. Maybe you would be happier in this band from Pheonix nights?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: bobad
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 11:44 AM

Right on Al, it's easy to see why Labour lost judging from what we see from its supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: peteglasgow
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 11:45 AM

there is quite a lot of sweeping generalisations on here about who labour party members are - i wonder how many of our critics actually know any labour supporters? or labour voters? any lefty friends? lots of guys who you have lively discussions in the pub with? or do your opinions of us come from the media and your computer screen? no people can be categorised so narrowly. and what would be the purpose of doing it anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 11:58 AM

My old dad, god bless ‘im, used to say that the only thing more unpleasant than a sore loser is a sore winner. I’m starting to understand that, judging by the evidence on this forum, he knew what he was talking about, did the old lad.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 12:10 PM

Pete - My sweeping generalisation is that most of the anti Labour Party abuse on the internet
originates from outside the UK,
and is spread by easily-lead-by-peer-pressure narrow minded conformists,
who parrot key words and phrases
more associated with 13 year old American gamer boys...

Guido is the UK branch/franchise of the propaganda network...

The internet won this election...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Rain Dog
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 12:13 PM

In response to peteaberdeen's post

There is quite a lot of sweeping generalisations on here about most things. Having just googled the information, would I be right in saying that it appears there are only about 1 million or so voters who belong to any political party? The majority of people who vote are not members of any party.

I would agree with the statement 'no voters' can be categorised so narrowly. Unfortunately some of the people who contribute here seem to think that they voted correctly and anyone who voted differently was stupid/deluded/brainwashed etc

I would also ask if people genuinely thought Labour could win the election? The best I thought could happen is that it would be a hung parliament with all that would entail for the next 5 years.

I live in the South East where people voted approx. 2 to 1 in favour of leaving in the referendum. In my constituency, Dover, the Tories increased their majority. I voted Labour but cannot say I was surprised by the fact that they did not win the seat.

The one surprise for me was the fact that Labour retained Canterbury, in fact they increased their majority slightly.

Now we have to wait and see what the coming years bring us.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 12:26 PM

Look, it really is dead simple. Al says East Europeans cause more crime and immigrants are here for council houses, free health care and free education. Nothing to do with being right of left, brexit or remain. As the son of an east European immigrant I should find this offensive but I don't. I'm thick skinned. What I do know though is that there is no evidence that East Europeans are any more lawless than anyone else and that immigrants are, in the main, net contributors and not scroungers. If you think that by pointing this out I am being insulting or self righteous then we may as well just let bigotry win.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 12:32 PM

Rain Dog - My mum is 87, I applied for her postal vote
for what is realistically probably her last general election.
The form never arrived, lost in the mail.
The replacement arrived a day after the closing date.
A proxy vote alternative was too impractical for our family circumstances.

So Labour lost her one vote.

However she's been voting Labour since the early 1950s,
and they've never won anything anyway round here in the South West.
Our votes never make any difference,
even when in the past we resorted to voting tactically for the treacherous Liberals...


So now the North can join us in the wasted vote club.
But hopefully not for too many years...

I never expected Labour to win this election.
I hoped they might...
But didn't expect them to do this badly.

Let's hope the party learns from it's disastrous performance...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 01:07 PM

The administration and handling of postal ballots has nothing to to with political parties. We are not allowed to handle postal ballots in any way whatsoever.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 01:20 PM

Nothing to do with self-rightousness. I found the generalistic comment offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 01:29 PM

SPB - if there's any confusion in my writing,
I didn't mean or accuse Labour of losing her postal vote form...?????

Her local council blamed Royal mail...

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 03:46 PM

Labour suffered a real blow when they lost Scotland - this was on Ed Miliband's watch.

Theresa May had the charisma of a cucumber which allowed Corbyn to make inroads in the previous election.

Boris saw an opportunity and went for it - he purged his own party of many of the remainers and this was interpreted as strong leadership.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:34 PM

I have sat back on much of the recent "discussion" here but I have to ask you Big Al if, as you say, you are a Labour supporter why do most of your posts sound like they are coming from a Conservative (with a big C) supporter.

Quite honestly they sound like posts I would expect from the right, or extreme right, wingers posting on here.

I would go one step step further and suggest if you consider yourself to be vaguely left wing then I'm a Dutchman.

Subject: RE: BS: UK General election December 12 2019
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Dec 19 - 04:43 PM

... and the change in the position on Brexit was a factor. The choice between a Labour negotiated deal and remain made many people say "but we've already voted on that and decided we don't want to remain."

The leave with no deal option was a bit like the nuclear deterrent - neither side wanted it but remove it and you immediately remove your bargaining clout - if the EU Commission realised that remain was an option on a second referendum they would hardly be likely to offer any kind of acceptable deal.

What Corbyn did achieve was that he energised a lot of young people to take an interest in politics and the Labour Party had the biggest membership of any political party in Europe. Unfortunately with youth goes blind idealism -we were all there at one time weren't we after all? It also meant that the Momentum influence was mostly in favour of remain as opposed to the traditional heartlands.

I just hope that these young people won't sink back into apathy.

Maybe if Johnson gets Brexit done this won't be an issue to divide Labour any more and a slow recovery can take place:-

I don't agree with everything this man says but worth a listen:-

Jonathan Pie - Why Labour Lost.