BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 02:22 PM

"Well as long as you stamp on abuse and stay consistent you'll get support here.
You've posted to Mudcat just three times in the last almost-six years. I hope you've been a damn good lurker! ;-)"

Steve - we're now having to get used to essential workers
being called back out of retirement at short notice...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 01:39 PM

Thanks for the comment and clarification Barb'ry. Apologies for cross-posting. FWIW, I agree.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 01:38 PM

Caught up reading this thread, and watched news headlines..

Right then, I'll support DtG's call for a fresh new thread to start the week.

Let's give our new mod a clean sheet...

By coincidence, on Channel 5 catch up
is the 1961 Max Bygraves movie "Spare the Rod"

a drama about a fresh new inexperienced supply teacher
thrown in at the deep end
with the toughest class of kids, in the toughest school, in the toughest neighbourhood...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 01:35 PM

Yes, Stanron. If you need to distribute £100 you can either give £10 each to 10 people who need it or you can give it all to one person who doesn't. In the former case the economy is inflated by £100. In the latter, it gets put into a back pocket and a few crumbs may go back into the economy. I go for the former, as does labour. But that was not my question. You said "The whole of the Labour platform is based on the assumption that the electorate is stupid". You have spectacularly failed to explain that.

Would you care to try again?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 01:32 PM

"I really want to know, Jim.!"
He's always donee this - he makes outrageous statements - about foreigners - of all nationality and colour, about the less well off, about Catholics, about women..... you name it, he's done it
It would take somebody with real problems to believe what he claims he's done
It's purely for effect
"The post at 06.25 "
See above
We've all fallen for it at one time or another
He probably had no toys as a child
"The whole of the Labour platform is based on the assumption that the electorate is stupid."
Consider the number who vote labour Stanron that's an extremely arrogant and elitist statement, even for a dyed in the wool Tory
Nearly all politicians lie to those whose votes they wish to win - our demovcracy is based on the premise that no politician is bound by what the electorate wants
The difference with Labour is that it promises something different than a society divided into haves and have nots rather than the 'crumbs from the rich man's' philosophy built into all other forms of Government
Corbyn showed signs of wishing to change that and your people knew it - it's why they tried every trick in the book to destroy him - personal insults ageist caricature, antisemitism - stupidity..... all manufactured and pushed through - in teh case of antsemitism, with the assisntance of a an extremist right-wing foreign power wich itself is antisemitic in blaming the Jewish People for it's human rights atrocities and has only kept out of the International Courts for those abuses with the help of many dozens of US vetoes (go check)
Labour at its best rebuilt Post War Britain using measures that were opposed by your party at every step of the way
The National Health Service that Briyain priodes itself on was socialism in actin
Go read what your party had to say about it at the tame
You really need to come up with something better than mindless sloganising
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:58 PM

Gove:

"We’re going to move to get that up to 25,000 a day and we’re doing all that we can to increase and to accelerate that, and I hope that we will be able to test as many frontline workers at the earliest possible stage."

As pointed out by the person who copied this into the comments section under a Guardian report, it's just riddled with every caveat under the sun. "Going to, up to, all that we can, increase and accelerate, I hope that we will be able, as many....earliest possible stage..." You couldn't make it up, except that he did. Inept, unprepared, too little, too late.

UK strategy to address pandemic threat ‘not properly implemented’

[Damian Carrington in today's Guardian, extracts]:

The UK’s biological security strategy, published in 2018 to address the threat of pandemics, was not properly implemented, according to a former government chief scientific adviser.

Prof Sir Ian Boyd, who advised the environment department for seven years until last August and was involved in writing the strategy, said a lack of resources was to blame. Other experts said there was a gap between pandemic planning and action, and that the strategy had stalled.

The UK has been rated as one of the most prepared nations in the world, and some experts have said the coronavirus outbreak would have overwhelmed any government. However, a 2019 parliamentary inquiry into biological security was postponed and then cancelled because MPs were focused on Brexit and then the December general election.

Boyd said the government was aware of many risks with low likelihoods but potentially very high impacts on the nation, such as pandemics, severe storms and power blackouts. But he said these were assessed independently from one another, underplaying the total risk, which itself was rising due to climate change, population growth and the globalisation of travel.

Looked at alone, a pandemic had appeared unlikely, he said. “As a result, getting sufficient resource just to write a decent biosecurity strategy was tough. Getting resource to properly underpin implementation of what it said was impossible.”...

...The NHS is reported to have failed a government test of its ability to handle a pandemic, though the finding were not made public. Exercise Cygnus, a three-day dry run for a pandemic carried out in October 2016, examined how hospitals and other services would cope in a flu outbreak with a similar mortality rate to coronavirus.

According to the Sunday Telegraph, ministers were told three years ago that Britain would be overwhelmed, suffering a lack of critical care beds, morgue capacity and personal protective equipment.

In July 2019 the House of Commons joint committee on the national security strategy launched an inquiry into preparing for emerging infectious diseases. However, its first evidence session in October was postponed due to debates on Brexit and the calling of a general election. The December election meant the inquiry was cancelled.

Catherine Rhodes, the head of the centre for the study of existential risk at Cambridge University, had been scheduled to give evidence to the MPs’ inquiry. She said the UK had had fairly good pandemic planning in place.

“There does, however, seem to have been a significant gap between recognition of the risk and planning, and action on preparedness,” she said. “In particular, there could have been much better public communication in advance of the outbreak about the sort of measures that might be necessary in such a situation, and surge capacity in the NHS could have been substantially improved.”

Opi Outhwaite, at St Mary’s law school in London, who was also scheduled to give evidence to the inquiry, said: ‘I think broadly that any government would likely have been overwhelmed by this outbreak.”

But she said: “The risk of an outbreak of this type has been known for some time, while the biological security strategy seemed to have stalled."

Naturally, I have a message to convey about this government's ineptitude (not to speak of the running-down of the NHS), so I've been fairly selective. The article is there in full for anyone to read. There's a little bit of room in it for anyone to make little exonerations of the government. There is no room whatsoever for "it was in The Guardian therefore it's automatic shit" comments.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Stanron
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:58 PM

Dave the Gnome wrote: Stanron. Would you care to explain?

Correct me if I'm wrong but my take on Labour ideology is that the 'whole' can be improved by lifting the 'bottom'. Tory ideology could be seen as lifting the 'whole' by improving the 'top'. I guess I believe more in the idea of trickle down than I believe in the idea of trickle up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:51 PM

Votes for all men had to come first, Nigel. Sad but true. Without votes for all men we would never had got votes for all women as well. Peterloo was a major turning point in achieving votes for all no matter how many nits you pick.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:51 PM

Now to try catching up reading the rest of this thread..

I may be some time...

[hopefully a minimum of deletions, so what's left is not too confusing,
and has some reasonable continuity that makes sense to a reader...???]

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:48 PM

"The post at 06.25 along with other 'ism' posts perhaps say more about the poster than the comment.
Not nice but there as a lasting witness to one's written opinions."

Barb'ry - This post of your's is as far as I've caught up reading this thread today..

[a lazy Sunday afternoon in bed..]

So, if you can continue to adopt this approach to modding,
as opposed to the inconsistent gratuitous deleting we have put up with for far to long.
Then you are a mod I should get along with ok ...

I've always argued for leaving damning posts in place for posterity,
so bad folks who write bad things can no longer have it swept under the carpet for them,
and conveniently forgotten...

cheers..
pfr

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:45 PM

I really want to know, Jim. If he is just winding people up, his posts can be safely removed or ignored. If he genuinely believes that people are inferior because they are either women or northern, he is dangerous and should be treated accirdingly.

Stanron. Would you care to explain?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:43 PM

You are aware that women have had the vote for quite a while aren't you? You should also know that it was the working class of Manchester that were instrumental in getting votes for all at Peterloo just over 200 years ago.

Peterloo was hardly about 'votes for all'. More about votes for all men. As you say, women have had the vote (UK) for quite a while, but not that long.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Stanron
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:40 PM

Jim Carroll wrote: Do you really think anybody is that stupid ?
Jim

The whole of the Labour platform is based on the assumption that the electorate is stupid.

I'm leaving this post here as an example of what I don't believe to be acceptable. It appears to be doing nothing more than trolling by making an inflammatory remark. What was to be gained by it? No, I don't want an answer!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:36 PM

"Or are you just winding people up?"
What took you so long Dave
He's been doing that for years
Do you really think anybody is that stupid ?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 12:09 PM

You have done that one before, Bonzo. Yesterday I think. And there is nothing for you to agree or disagree with. I do have a question though

Do you really believe that a young, well educated northern woman should be excluded from leadership because of her gender, background or accent? Or are you just winding people up?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 11:23 AM

I could agree with you but then we'd both be wrong!!!

Dum de dum, I have to go for daily allowed exercise with Dreamy dog the greyhound while the sun is shining!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 11:00 AM

ABCD - :-)

Bonzo. You are aware that women have had the vote for quite a while aren't you? You should also know that it was the working class of Manchester that were instrumental in getting votes for all at Peterloo just over 200 years ago. Assuming you do know all of this and that you do not really believe that gender, place of birth of social status disqualify anyone from being a political leader, then your comments are just made to wind people up. In that case, they can be ignored. If you do believe that such things make people any different then you are deluded and can be ignored for that. Win-win!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 10:50 AM

I used to think they people with the double-barrelled names were incredibly honest, if perhaps a bit too forthright. My misunderstanding was that their mothers weren't sure who their fathers were, but that it was in each case a choice between two.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 10:04 AM

That was to Bonzo Doo Dah.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 10:03 AM

How would you know? I thought that people in Cr*yd*n had yet to evolve past grunting at each other....

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 10:02 AM

"I hope you've been a damn good lurker! ;-)"
I hope you don't mean Lurcher - I've told you how I feel about cruel sports
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:42 AM

Changing her accent to normal I think.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:22 AM

Margaret Thatcher was a working-class woman with a Lincolnshire accent (until she married well and worked on changing her accent to ‘posh’).

So......??

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:09 AM

Oh!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 09:01 AM

Correct!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:55 AM

Nor me, Doug. He is referring to her being a woman from a working class background with a Manchester accent.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:52 AM

Hmm? I don't normally associate double-barrelled names with cleaners.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:42 AM

See my post just above yours, Doug.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:40 AM

Just tweeted to the Beeb's #SongsOfPraise: a CEO in Japan earns about 10 times more than the company's lowest paid; in Europe, 30 times; & in the USA > 300 times more! So why copy their way of setting Christian words to American pop? God knows, we should worship OUR trad ways; "Nationalism without Conquest"

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:29 AM

Fine, so a labour government under she who sounds like Coronation Street cleaner ....

I know it can only be one of two people but, as TV soaps pass me by, the reference to Coronation Street doesn't give me any clue as to which one. Would anyone care to enlighten me?

DC

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:28 AM

Agreed, Barb'ry, but that post was not just an 'ism'. It was an underhanded dig at the social status and gender of Rebecca Long-Bailey. I know it to be so because he has made the same comment before. It's the same as the other poster referring to Dianne Abbott as the abbottamus because of her ethnic background and, to my mind, just as hateful.

May I suggest it is worth starting with a clean sheet? Close this thread and start a new one entitled. "UK politics. Moderated". Maybe the first post could be by you detailing what is permissible and what will be summarily deleted.

Just a thought

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:27 AM

It would seem fair to me that with the overwhelming majority of posts on this thread finding fault with every action the government is taking, then it is right that the question be asked as to how the Opposition would deal with the multiplicity of problems presented. There are no standard texts on how to deal with this pandemic, PPE gear is not stockpiledon a scale to meet the sudden dramatic increase in demansd, Test kits specific for a given virus or set of antibodies do not sit in wharehouses to meet a sudden demand. The figures to use for planning purposes are largely from models. The entire planning process is on the fly and reacting to constantly changing circumstances. This is not a flawless process.

As Eisenhower said:Plans are worthless, but planning is everything.

There is a very great distinction because when you are planning for an emergency you must start with this one thing: the very definition of “emergency” is that it is unexpected, therefore it is not going to happen the way you are planning.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:24 AM

no sane person would damn you if you do. there is a law against hate speech you know.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:24 AM

Well as long as you stamp on abuse and stay consistent you'll get support here. You've posted to Mudcat just three times in the last almost-six years. I hope you've been a damn good lurker! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:23 AM

Sorry people - this is just falling back into this feller's trap again - onward and upward eh ??

Ireland is due to take delivery of the first of a large order of ventilaors and medical equipment from China on Tuesday or Wednesday - Dyson has yet to begin their manufacture
Please try to keep up Boris
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Barb'ry
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 08:01 AM


You see I will be damned if I do and damned if I don't so a difficult situation to say the least. The post at 06.25 along with other 'ism' posts perhaps say more about the poster than the comment. Not nice but there as a lasting witness to one's written opinions.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 07:59 AM

I couldn't agree more, Pete. The removal of posts expressing JUSTIFIED outrage at this horrible man just protects him.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 07:08 AM

See what I mean about provocative nonsense, Barb'ry?

Bonzo. Firstly, defining someone by their gender, social status or regional accent is stereotyping at its worse. Your crass insult to an intelligent young woman is not political comment. It is simply a means to cause friction.

Secondly, neither Corbyn nor his as yet unnamed successor are in any position to change current government policy. As has been pointed out Boris has a massive majority and can do whatever he choses. With that power comes great responsibility and whatever he does now is entirely down to him. Justifying any mistakes that Johnson may make by comparing him with someone who cannot possibly gain power for almost 5 years is not just whataboutism but sheer fantasy.

It adds nothing to the discussion and helps no-one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:59 AM

or 6.15 unless proof is offered. Otherwise it is an extremely provocative statement

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:51 AM

You could start by deleting the clearly provocative post at 06:25 AM, Barb’ry.

Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:25 AM

Fine, so a labour government under she who sounds like Coronation Street cleaner would be more appropriate to deal with the Coronavirus .....discuss!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:15 AM

Good luck, Barb'ry. On the basis that you will remove obviously provocative nonsense like "Jeremy Corbyn caused everyone to spread the virus", I am happy to get back in the water. Hopefully we can now discuss politics in an adult manner without the infantile rhetoric that we have been suffering.

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 06:05 AM

"I inferred (wrongly it seems) that you had looked."
I had and I did not find anyhting which might say something \about Google of course
You are didging the fact that if was under-reported by the British media - thwe level of reporting of this was tantamount to describing the sigking of the Titanic as "Boat Flounders Somewhere Else"
Maybe you can ut me right about the fact that the only reference to Trump having demanded that all Cuban offers of assistance be rejected in the British Press came from the Communist 'Morning Star'
If anything, it is far more important to know that Trump (and presumably his allies of which our Government is a front-rummer) are likely to turn down offers of assistance at a time like this if they don't approve of the benefactor's politics
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:37 AM

Sensible words from ex PM Blair
Disinformation from Guido? Watch the video and decide



https://order-order.com/2020/03/29/blair-pm-perfectly-able-lead-country-isolation/

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:32 AM

Sorry Jim, I must have misunderstood.
When you said:
I cannot find a single reference to THIS in the 'Free - World Press, yet the report is five days old
I inferred (wrongly it seems) that you had looked.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:32 AM

a post removed was my complaint that iain's response of 'if you are happy and you know it clap your hands' when i had just posted about the death of our friend was incredibly insensitive. in the current situation when all of us are anxious and could do with support from each other (and anywhere!) this is the response of a madman - or a psychopath. i don't get this 'lets all ignore him' stuff - we -and certainly I - have done this often enough. please, gie's peace - cut him off so he can go and shout his bile to the winds.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:26 AM

Thish should be blazoned over every headline in Britain Nigel n order to encourage the practice and thnk the donors for their generosity
The two papers are to be congratulated fro covering it but why was it announced by all of them ?
It wasn't misinformation - it was lack of same - I didn't see it at the time and it never appeared on the British news
I don'd spread "misinformation" I leave that to the like of Guido
Still nitpicking about how many weeks behind your Government is, I see
Hi Barb'ry - welcome to Hell
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:25 AM

You have my sympathies, Barb'ry. Best wishes!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Barb'ry
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:16 AM


Hi everyone
I wanted to introduce myself as the British mod in the group. For my sins, I have taken on British posts on Mudcat...
Just to let you know that nothing much will change and hate speech, racism, name calling etc will be shut down. If anyone has a problem with that, please let me know ;-).
Civil (ish) discussions, please.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Mar 20 - 05:06 AM

Well as that came from you, Jim, I'll buy it. I'll ignore the resident ratbag completely from now on. Though, I must say, the powers that be here are extremely remiss in allowing him to abuse us. They moan and groan about us Brits but they appear to revel in Iains' disreputable presence. Anyway, nuff said. Grrr.