BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 06:52 AM

Just doing a few back of the envelope calculations here. The government has just announced amongst the PPE it moved 10 million gloves yesterday.    Thinking nurses, doctors, midwives and ambulance staff (March 2017 figures), that is roughly 11 pairs each. Of course, they are not all on shift at the same time, so we have to multiply that by whatever the relevant factor is. 40 pairs per active worker seems a generous multiplier. My nephew's wife often works ten hour shifts or more, so four changes per hour ... hmmm. If it is enough, it is looks as if it is cutting things fine to me, even allowing for the fact that not all those types of staff will use them at the same rate.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 05:57 AM

From Starmer to Raab (from Guido of course)
Opportunism or sensible

This lockdown is not affecting people equally. In fact, it has exacerbated existing inequalities
m our country. A family living m an overcrowded flat will have particular challenges. And it
is hard to imagine the daily horror of someone trapped in a home with his or her abuser. The
Government has a duty to do what it can to alleviate these pressures on people.
I am therefore writing to urge that on Thursday you commit to the following:
Setting out clearly the criteria the Government will be using to inform how and when
it intends to ease the lockdown measures.
Publishing the Government's exit strategy now or in the coming week, so that when
Parliament has returned from the Easter recess it can be subject to proper
parliamentary scrutiny.
Outlining the sectors of the economy and the core public services (e.g- schools) that
you consider most likely to see restrictions eased. This should be accompanied by a
clear plan to protect workers and family members as well an assessment of the impact
such measures will have on the economy and existing government support schemes.
Any exit strategy will only be effective if the Government puts the necessary planning,
investment and infrastructure in place early. We would be keen to discuss this with the
Government at the earliest opportunity. Whatever the preferred option, it seems obvious to us
testing and contact tracing will have to play a huge part. Given the difficulties the
Government is experiencing now ramping up to its 25,000 tests per day by mid-April, it
shows why planning is needed. Or on the question of a vaccine, if this is the Government's
priority, it must stan preparation now to put in place a comprehensive national vaccine
programme. We cannot repeat mistakes that have already been made on testing and access to
protective equipment.
I understand that there is a lot of scientific advice, analysis and forecasting on the
coronavirus. However, it is political decisions by ministers that will determine what happens
next. At a time of national crisis, it is more important than ever that those decisions are taken
swiftly and transparently. I hope you will give this request serious consideration and I would
welcome the opportunity to discuss it with you further.
I am making a copy of this available to the public.
Yours sincerely,
Keir Starmer MP
Leader of the Labour Party

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 05:51 AM

Trum had pulled America out of the World Health Organisation and blamed them for the crisis for not listening to him
The virus is obviously having a n affect on mental health care - where is LHO when needed ?

Iains
I have asked you to deny specifically what you claim is slander and have provided an example of one which you pretend is not there
I see little point in continuing this with someone who has become somebody to avoid by everyone other than someone else to be avoided
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 05:23 AM

Bonzo...... You are likely right. But as you have no doubt noticed if the cabal disagree with the argument presented they label it extremist or right wing and dismiss it. I wonder how many more elections they need to lose before they see the error of their ways. They have lost with gay abandon for the last 4 years so I am confident there are many more popcorn moments to come. Slow learners or what?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 05:09 AM

Iains - the leftie pefties are mistaking this for discussion!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 04:57 AM

Calypso to Collapso!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 04:22 AM

Many people have recognised Priti Patel's non-apology as an attempt to shift the topic onto people's feelings rather than the issue concerned. There are a lot of images going round making it and so far this is my favourite

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 04:14 AM

From: Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 09:14 AM

Bo "bog-dweller, no "Traveller community as Slavers and muck spreaders, now no Muslim problem with paedofiles, no hippo-like black MPs
As I said, must be someone posting using your name - report them
Jim

Yet again you cannot provide posts to support your libellous statements. You really are a sorry excuse for a human being are you not?

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Apr 20 - 03:35 AM

" in making the choices they did based on available information."
Much of that intimation has been political and in some cases in the interest of the elite rather than the people as a whole, which is why Britain is so far behind everybody else
Europe is now beginning to abandon the lock-down - China, where this all began has all but returned to normal
While it is true some of these countries experienced the problem before we did, their relative sizes far outweighed that - just compare the population of China with anywhere else
Johnson's public disregard for the problem was an utter disgrace - his politicians moved in tightly-packed herds while he publicly refused to be tested
Your party has been shown more concern for its own public image than it has for the welfare of the people
As for that risen from the grave self-declared Thatcherite in the Home Office....
God help the British People

Yesterday the Irish edition of the English 'Times' devoted three whole pages to how far ahead of Britain, Ireland was in dealing with the problem
If Rabid Right-wing Rupe says it's true, then I guess it must be
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 06:24 PM

Let me throw yet another factor into the mix. Gove's daughter has a test for the virus and when this was questioned we were told it was on the advice of the Chief Scientific Officer. Now, it may well be a good idea to test her in order to get Gove back to work, but that is a political decision, not a scientific one. The scientific decision would be to test the people most likely to infect or be infected by others, which are front-line staff, not daughters of ministers. So in this case at least, it appears the CSO is acting on political factors, not scientific ones. Which immediately raises the question whether this is a one-off, or are political considerations influencing the CSO's advice so that it is no longer truly scientific but some mix of political and scientific. That matters if the government is going to be claiming it is following the scientific advice.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 05:52 PM

Let me simplify that.

You, and everyone here, knows the WHO scientific advice was to "test, test, test."

The advice from the UK scientist was this was not necessary.

It was a purely political choice which scientific advice to follow.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 05:40 PM

They are repeated saying they are following the scientific advice.

They are avoiding admitting they are on occasion making choices between alternative paths both of which have scientific backing By definition, that choice is not a scientific one. I suggest the reasons they are avoiding that are

(a) they would have to defend it and that demonstrates they are taking such decisions on other grounds. This is a bad idea because they want to leave all responsibility with the scientists.

(b) if they pick the wrong one they have to take responsibility for it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 05:23 PM

Yes, the words are a clear refusal to accept any responsibility, or to accept that they could have chosen things be done differently. As you point out, there is some conflicting scientific advice and they have chosen to follow one option rather than another, but they pretend they have made no such choices.

I see no evidence that they are pretending to have made no such choices. They do not accept that they were in error (if they were) in making the choices they did based on available information.
When you take what you believe to be the correct action, based on the scientific advice, even if hindsight shows that a different action may have had better results, then there is nothing to apologise for.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:50 PM

Like I know the difference when folks insert "if you feel that" in shamefully fake apologies...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:48 PM

Nigel - oh no... not again...!!!???

I passed law exams at college.. I know the difference..

It was sarcasm... again...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:23 PM

Yes, the words are a clear refusal to accept any responsibility, or to accept that they could have chosen things be done differently. As you point out, there is some conflicting scientific advice and they have chosen to follow one option rather than another, but they pretend they have made no such choices.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:10 PM

pfr: If needs be, pushing you out of the way to your doom to clear a path for his rescue...
[though - in a movie, that'd be after you tore a life jacket off a young mother with a baby,
before kicking them overboard out of your way to hijack a children's life raft...]
How's that for slander then...???

How's that for 'slander'? Very poor. It would actually be 'libel'. Slander is spoken or transitory. Once you commit it to paper, or a permanent (or semi-permanent) medium like the internet it is no longer 'transitory'. Because of its more permanent nature, libel is a more serious charge than slander.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:07 PM

The govt's initial response was ideological callous calculation
of how much money could be saved
by culling the old and weak...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:07 PM

Last time I saw someone wriggling like that, it was in a belly-dancing club in Cairo.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:03 PM

Nice try...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 04:02 PM

Perhaps Nigel would like to analyse the difference between what Priti Patel said in the nightly press conference:
I’m sorry if people feel that there have been failings.
and what most people wanted to hear:
I'm sorry if there have been failings.

Analysed.
She did not admit to any failings, but was sorry that people may think there have been failings. The wording appears quite clear.
If she had worded it as you say people wanted to hear it then there would have been follow-up questions asking exactly where she believed the failings had occurred, and why. By using the wording she did, she is not admitting that there were failings.

People looking at the situation with hindsight might say "you should have done this", or "you should not have done that". But the Government have made clear that they are acting on the scientific advice they are given. Admittedly not all of the advice, as some of it is contradictory.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:34 PM

yeah.. Saturday afternoon wrestling.. before the yanks ruined it all...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:26 PM

His brother was Brian Crabtree the MC for many wrestling bouts. I went to school with Wild Angus's son and Rollerball Rocco's dad had a pub in Kearsley. They had a darts team which included said Wild Angus and Giant Haystacks. They were an intimidating lot but didn't win many matches!

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:22 PM

"the only uniform that I have ever worn is that of a scout and that was wayback when"..

When...???
.. but in the end you had to give it back to him,
and hope he never told anyone...???


..yes... I'm bored cooking dinner...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 03:12 PM

”and backwardman I hate to shatter your illusions but the only uniform that I have ever worn is that of a scout and that was wayback when.
You may act like a shouty barrackroom lawyer but I prefer a more measured response.“

No barrack-rooms at sea, squaddie.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 02:58 PM

"lease do and point out anything said that is racist."
I just hae ore are blacks and Irish a race - Travellers have now been recognised as an ethnic group dating back at least a milenia
Well and truely shafted I think
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 02:44 PM

.. and I'll only apologise for misspelling your name...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 02:30 PM

Ken - Thanks, that helps a lot...

There's never enough Americans interfering in British society and politics...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: keberoxu
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 02:22 PM

When you fellows dig a last ditch,
you dig one so deep
that you can't get out of it,
not even with help from Barb'ry.
Who has my unqualified sympathy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 02:02 PM

"Well I am conservative with a very small c..."

That might explain a few things...???

but, no need to take it out on the rest of us...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 01:53 PM

Traveller, Irish, Black MP and now Muslim pedophiles
Please do and I'll I'll prolong your agony by posting them up one by one
Your starter for ten
12 Apr 20 - 04:19 PM
Jim

Please do and point out anything said that is racist.
I await with interest. It looks to me that, as with so many other things you babble on about, you have no idea what you are talking about.
I suggest you consult a good dictionary before you start and make sure you understand what the term racist actually means. The way you scatter it about like confetti on post after post leads me to suspect you have no inkling.
I know all you hard left posters call anyone that supported brexit racist but not only was it not true but if gave you all the worst election result in nearly 100 years. But none of you have learnt anything from that epic defeat. Hard right, extremist, racist all slips lightly off the tongue and sprayed indiscriminately around by you at all who dare to disagree with you. Well I am conservative with a very small c and I supported brexit. Despite all your postings on here we won in 2016, 2017 and 2019. Time you all dealt with it.

While I am waiting for Jimmie's response I will read further excepts from the the internal report into Labour’s handling of antisemitism that was created on 29 March, 2020 by Harry Hayball, a staffer in Labour’s Governance and Legal Unit and former Head of Digital Communications at Momentum. It makes for fascinating reading. Starmer likely has a massive battle on his hands. Moses had but 40 years in the wilderness - how many for Labour? I have to award 10 out of 10 for alienating the electorate. Twaddle in the twittersphere does not win hearts and minds.
and backwardman I hate to shatter your illusions but the only uniform that I have ever worn is that of a scout and that was wayback when.
You may act like a shouty barrackroom lawyer but I prefer a more measured response.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 01:44 PM

My wife used to work with a guy who was from the Caribbean, about 6 ft 5 and built in proportion. He was a male nurse at a secure mental hospital and the police bringing patients in even found him intimidating.

His name was Hyacinth.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 01:14 PM

"Shirley Crabtree "
Big Dady a woman ?
I alus had ma doots about those boobs
Why didn't his daddy call him Sue (or Marion, if he was a John Wayne fan) ?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 01:10 PM

Next a historian might reveal the original "Big Jessie" was an unbeaten 7 feet tall bare knuckle boxer..

..well.. if rewriting and inventing history is a sneaky political propagandist tactic,
why can't we have some fun doing it...

"Shirt-lifter" and "Big Girl's Blouse" were traditional Royal Navy terms
for the strongest seamen hauling up the heaviest sail on a warship...

How to subvert pub quizzes...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 12:55 PM

There was one bloke called Shirley who I suspect none of us would have tangled with ………….. one Shirley Crabtree ………… better known as the wrestler "Big Daddy"

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 12:39 PM

"Don’t encourage him,"£
If he is encouraged by that we may as well all fold our tents and go watch Shirley Valentine talk to her wall - nobody is that thick-skinned, surely (Dont say, "Don't call me Shirley" please)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 12:20 PM

It's his sort who kicked any of the few remaining decent conservative MPs
out of the tory government...

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 12:20 PM

seeing there are a lot of top level tories who didn't kike the way that party was going and left or were pushed out of boris johnson's new tory party - does anyone know what happened to them? are they in any sort of 'one nation' type of organisation or is that strain of thought now done with apart from michael heseltine? i thought rory stewart was an interesting and thoughtful person - but i don't suppose his aim of winning london one spare room at a time is going so well.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 12:12 PM

Don’t encourage him, he’s using the standard tactic of the barrack-room bully - accusing his opponent(s) of the offences of which he, himself, is guilty. Ignore him and let him shoot his bully’s mouth off. That way, it will very quickly become apparent who the trouble-maker really is.

Incidentally, does anyone else notice that none of his fellow Right-Wingers ever leap to his defence? Very, very telling. At least those guys have some self-respect.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 11:57 AM

"Still waiting for the actual posts jimmie.not your lies."
You deny them then
Traveller, Irish, Black MP and now Muslim pedophiles
Please do and I'll I'll prolong your agony by posting them up one by one
Your starter for ten
12 Apr 20 - 04:19 PM
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 11:52 AM

I'm awake now, and only just finished catching up reading all this...

Iains - falling back on the attack/provoke Jim, and demand he be banned distraction-ploy again..

Well Jim's worth far more to the greater good of humanity than any of your sort.
So obviously, I'd save him from a burning sinking ship, not you..

If needs be, pushing you out of the way to your doom to clear a path for his rescue...

[though - in a movie, that'd be after you tore a life jacket off a young mother with a baby,
before kicking them overboard out of your way to hijack a children's life raft...]

How's that for slander then...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 11:43 AM

Still waiting for the actual posts jimmie.not your lies.
You wwant to insult then give the justification. Seems a simple enough request to me but all you do is duck and dive as usual. That says a lot about you as a person,, does it not! Pathetic little man.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 11:16 AM

Whenever I hear toilet Paper Tigers scream in red "Slander"
I urge them to file suit, wait in line, hire lawyers and start looking for proof that they have suffered damages to their career, mental health and friendships.

Oh thats right you don't have any of those in these times.

Instead I urge you to drop all animus and charges. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 09:59 AM

Politics exam.

1. Justify the lies Boris Johnson and his government have told as detailed in boris-johnson-lies.com

2. Explain the underfunding of the NHS over the last 10 years resulting in a service that now cannot cope when it was well known that the " efficiency" savings would cause this very thing.

3. Why did members of the current government laugh and cheer when they denied a proper pay rise to medical staff who are now giving their lives to support us in the crisis?

4. Given the fact that the WHO advised social distancing, mass testing and tracing and severe restrictions on travel well before this government acted, how would you justify, to the recently bereaved, the Prime Minister giving the virus free reign for weeks instead?

Read the questions slowly and carefully. Points will be deducted for evasion, mentioning any Labour MP, blaming Jeremy Corbyn or scrawling the word "antisemitism" all over your exam paper.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 09:14 AM

Bo "bog-dweller, no "Traveller community as Slavers and muck spreaders, now no Muslim problem with paedofiles, no hippo-like black MPs
As I said, must be someone posting using your name - report them
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Iains
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 08:45 AM

"alleged racism."
Are you really serious ?
Must be someone else posting in your name on this thread - I'd contact the mods if I were you
Jim Carroll

Yes I am serious
show me my posts to prove your allegations. Otherwise apologize.
Simples!

But as usual little jimmie cannot. You are not very good at backing up your scurrilous statements are you?
Disgraceful behaviour!

I have requested Jim offers proof to back up his slanderous statements several times recently and as usual he cannot, he simply repeats the lies.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 08:21 AM

Just been announced that Workers in care homes are claiming that the homes have been "brushed out" of the figures of victims which has effected their getting safety equipment or staff and residents
Following a survey, it is predicted that unemployment will rise to two million due to the virus
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: peteglasgow
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 08:08 AM

sadly we all have a history of bad feeling on these threads that go back a few years - i'm still pure raging about my family's rights as european citizens being stolen - particularly for our (5)children who all have strong connections with people from all over the continent and beyond. and for what? what benefit for my family? - this question has never been answered. actually - don't bother trying - it's just a bit of recent history. i have absolutely no desire to ever reopen this can of worms. though the terms of our departure/re-entry are still up for discussion, particularly given recent events. (no, i don't think it's a good idea to open a new thread!!)

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 07:38 AM

It doesn't matter, chaps. We know that the opposition in parliament is toothless at the moment. Luckily any opposition we have here is equally ineffective. They have no response to any argument about Johnson's lies, the wrecking of the NHS or the scandalous early mismanagement of the Coronavirus crisis. All they have is diversion tactics, pedantry and semantics.

Subject: RE: BS: UK politics. Last ditch attempt
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Apr 20 - 07:08 AM

his was one comment or non comment)that upset many people I know ( anon-aoplogy)
"The Home Secretary was asked if she would apologise for the lack of PPE available to frontline health workers on the day 19 NHS staff were confirmed to have died with coronavirus.
Priti Patel addressed the nation today during the daily coronavirus press conference. She was asked by the media whether she would apologise for the lack of PPE.
It comes on the same day Health Secretary Matt Hancock confirmed the current NHS death toll from coronavirus stands at 19.
Ms Patel said she was "sorry" if people feel there has been a failing regarding the supply of PPE.
After being asked twice if she would apologise to NHS staff and their families, Ms Patel said: "I'm sorry if people feel that there have been failings. I will be very, very clear about that. "

Another raised by an Irish friend was:
"This is the woman who suggested that Britain should start blockading Ireland - preventing food imports in transit across Britain from reaching Ireland - in order to coerce us into agreeing to Britain's demands during the Brexit negotiations."

Patel describes herself as "a Thatcherite" which calls to mind that Mad Maggie befriended a mass murderer, describing him as "a hero of democracy" after he was foung so have overseen the round up, torture rape and murder of over a thousand young protesters who complained over the military takeover of their country
This insane politician visited him during his home-confinement and described those who arrested as having acted illegally

Comforting to know that Britain has a Home Secretary proud to associate herself with that particular take on democracy

"alleged racism."
Are you really serious ?
Must be someone else posting in your name on this thread - I'd contact the mods if I were you
Jim Carroll